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bamamick
08-05-2008, 09:08 PM
125,000 newfound lowland gorillas in the Congo? How many here besides myself read that and thought 'why did they tell everyone?'

Mickey Lake

brad9798
08-05-2008, 09:14 PM
Yep!

:(

skuthorp
08-05-2008, 09:16 PM
Me too. Rather like that untouched valley in Indonesian Papua, should have kept ther mouths shut!

ishmael
08-05-2008, 09:27 PM
Really? 125 thousand? That would surprise me. But then I don't know much of anything about Congo-ese gorillas.

I know I wish them well. We should recognize them as the close cousins they are.

You can talk to a gorilla if you put your mind to it, put away the AK 47. They aren't liable to explain the true meaning of western philosophy, but the conversations seem pretty rich.

bamamick
08-05-2008, 09:40 PM
You 'discover' them because there are still many, many places on this planet that people (nonindigenous people) do not travel to. Have you ever read much about the Ituri forest? Case in point. Supposedly we only know a tiny fraction of what's around us.

Mickey Lake

brad9798
08-05-2008, 09:59 PM
WELL SAID, Mickey!

PatCassidy- do you really think we have been everywhere in our OWN world ... let alone anywhere else??

:rolleyes:

John B
08-05-2008, 10:04 PM
There's an interesting side note to this story although the tale does vary a bit depending on who tells it. Evidentally there was a plane that crashed in the same area back quite a few years ago. There were survivors , two adults and their young baby son. Unfortunately the parents soon died but the son was cared for by the gorillas and he grew up amongst them.

Can't remember the rest of it, except there was some fuss when he turned out to be a peer of the realm or member of parliament or something.

seanz
08-05-2008, 10:12 PM
You 'discover' them because there are still many, many places on this planet that people (nonindigenous people) do not travel to. Have you ever read much about the Ituri forest? Case in point. Supposedly we only know a tiny fraction of what's around us.

Mickey Lake

Sort of...
You 'discover' them by employing someone to do a comprehensive species census.

Bruce Taylor
08-05-2008, 10:14 PM
You 'discover' them by employing someone to do a comprehensive species census.

Bingo.

Assuming this is a good study, I'm strangely elated.

paladin
08-05-2008, 10:29 PM
Now, John B, you wouldn't be speaking of the gentleman believed by some to be from the Aba-Zulu tribe, would you?

seanz
08-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Bingo.



Bingo?
You matched all the gorillas on your card?
:D

Bruce Taylor
08-05-2008, 10:36 PM
Bingo?
You matched all the gorillas on your card?
:D

Yeah, I won a new car.

http://www.lolhome.com/img_big/funny-picture-1127067467.jpg

brad9798
08-05-2008, 11:14 PM
THUS the question mark Cassidy ...

Why be a smartas$?

:rolleyes:

Not sure what is your problem!?!?

:(

brad9798
08-05-2008, 11:16 PM
The problem with the human race is acutely demonstrated within this thread ... a GREAT, encouraging, poignant discovery is made, yet the primadonna humans **** all over it ...

Hell- why don't you pricks get a plane ticket and begin the new poaching season ...

RIDICULOUS!

A SHAME, really.

:mad:

John B
08-05-2008, 11:46 PM
What'd Pat say Brad? Are you sure it isn't me you want to tell off for my little joke?

johnw
08-05-2008, 11:54 PM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/Pat558/gorilla_middle_finger.jpg

In the future, do not use my image without express written permission.

Seriously, this is wonderful news.

The Bigfella
08-06-2008, 12:16 AM
They discovered them by using a new counting methodology. I'm not knocking them - as apparently these critters are a bit hard to spot. The new methodology is based on the number of sleeping "nests" that the gorillas make - which I'm sure means there's some doubt on the numbers.

It isn't all good news though:


But primatologists warned that 303 species of the planet's apes, monkeys and lemurs faced extinction in the wild. Almost three-quarters of Asia's primates were under threat. In Cambodia, 90 per cent of native species were struggling to survive.

seanz
08-06-2008, 01:27 AM
Quit monkeying around.
:)

Some people may have an idea that there is a couple of Larsonesque junior field researchers deep in the forest of the Congo counting out loud.."One Gorilla, Two Gorilla, Three Gorilla" but it's a wee bit more complicated than that and can include complex mathematical modeling. So complex that when someone that works in that area (complex mathematical modeling of wildlife populations, not the Congo) tried to explain what their work involved...I went all quiet...way over my head it was. Ook.

abbyj
08-06-2008, 01:39 AM
125,000 newfound lowland gorillas in the Congo? How many here besides myself read that and thought 'why did they tell everyone?'

Mickey Lake

May be the only way to push for protection, Unfortunately the backyard BBQ's are already firing up.:(

The Bigfella
08-06-2008, 01:45 AM
I doubt that those bush meat fanciers will ever read the results of the survey. It won't change how many they kill either.

bamamick
08-06-2008, 02:09 AM
Sean, I know nothing about these things, but I had assumed that they used models of known gorilla populations (so many per square mile, etc.) and extrapolated it out by coming up with some sort of perimeter area of this community and multiplying the two. Isn't that how they determine bear populations in Alaska and western Canada?

It's a fascinating story. Wouldn't it be wonderful if some sort of political stability could come to that region while there are still viable populations of these wonderful creatures?

Mickey Lake

The Bigfella
08-06-2008, 04:21 AM
Hmm - political stability. We are talking about Africa aren't we? They don't seem to have a good track record.

seanz
08-06-2008, 04:33 AM
Not sure how they count bears in Alaska.....
Carefully?
;)


Sean, I know nothing about these things, but I had assumed that they used models of known gorilla populations (so many per square mile, etc.) and extrapolated it out by coming up with some sort of perimeter area of this community and multiplying the two. Isn't that how they determine bear populations in Alaska and western Canada?

It's a fascinating story. Wouldn't it be wonderful if some sort of political stability could come to that region while there are still viable populations of these wonderful creatures?

Mickey Lake

Ah, now I get it, I was a bit slow on the uptake this morning.
Is it because the Congo a bit more stable than it was? You certainly wouldn't have sent field researchers in a few years ago.


Researchers say the first wildlife census of the area has revealed that 125,000 western lowland gorillas are now thriving in the country's northern forests, a number that is twice some estimates for the worldwide population.from here
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93254830

First census? And they have a find like this.
:cool:
Have a read of the article. The gorillas live in a place called 'The Green Abyss' sounds like a remote wildlife paradise. Unfortunately, logging is starting to supply roads into the wilderness. It's the increased access that is the big problem for an area like this not just the loss of habitat.
It's great that they've done a census, now they know what they're trying to protect.

Mrleft8
08-06-2008, 07:38 AM
Something a little fishy about the whole story....

SamSam
08-06-2008, 10:05 AM
Now, John B, you wouldn't be speaking of the gentleman believed by some to be from the Aba-Zulu tribe, would you?

I believe it's the guy raised by the Mangani. I think his name was John Crayton or Clayton or something.

The Bigfella
08-06-2008, 10:09 AM
I thought it was Weismuller

Mrleft8
08-06-2008, 10:23 AM
Greystoke?

SamSam
08-06-2008, 10:38 AM
My son lives in Denver so we went to the zoo, the gorilla pit has a small grotto at ground level with a 1" or so thick picture window to see the animals up close. He said he and a friend were there a few weeks before and no one was around, his friend being an impulsive sort, he pulled down his pants and drawers and started beating his chest. The boss gorilla instantly charged and crashed against the window so hard it bulged to the point of breaking, terrifying the two and making them believers, they don't monkey around aping the gorillas anymore

ishmael
08-06-2008, 11:11 AM
"The boss gorilla instantly charged and crashed against the window so hard it bulged to the point of breaking, terrifying the two and making them believers."

The sooner we understand them better, the better. They are volatile creatures, as are all primates. If someone were at a window mocking me, when I'm locked up behind glass and have so much more going on than being a decoration, I'd charge them too! You can mock me, but you haven't beaten my spirit.

I think of Diane Fossey, who went into their culture without prejudice. And again, it's not a complex culture, but from what I understand it's pretty gentle. As impressive as they are physically they eat a lot of plants, hang out, make love, and generally don't bother others. We could learn from these cousins.:)

John B
08-06-2008, 05:30 PM
Well call me skeptical, but counting nests seems a little naive to me. What if Gorillas have holiday homes too?

seanz
08-06-2008, 05:38 PM
Who knew gorillas laid eggs?

Phillip Allen
08-06-2008, 05:52 PM
125,000 newfound lowland gorillas in the Congo? How many here besides myself read that and thought 'why did they tell everyone?'

Mickey Lake


I don't know any details but the first thing that jumped into my mind at your question: "why did they tell anyone?" is that all those scientists are desperate to get published so they can stay on the gravey train..."gorillas be damned, full scream ahead"

seanz
08-06-2008, 05:58 PM
Gravey train?
Sounds deadly.......

If your idea of 'gravy train' is slogging through a swamp in the Congo I'd hate to see your idea of 'doing it tough'.

Tom Montgomery
08-06-2008, 05:59 PM
I heard this story on NPR. One of the scientists who discovered this population was interviewed. They were shocked by the discovery of so many gorillas. They had no idea going in. Evidently this is a particularly remote, forbidding, and inhospitable location. It is mostly swamp and there are few - if any - indigenous people living amongst these gorillas.

Phillip Allen
08-06-2008, 06:06 PM
Gravey train?
Sounds deadly.......

If your idea of 'gravy train' is slogging through a swamp in the Congo I'd hate to see your idea of 'doing it tough'.

from the guy who owned the charter boat (I was sailing with him on an extended cruise with friends)...
anchored near small island...close in. there was a tent on shore and nobody around...suddenly out bursts two naked people. one was a twenty something woman the other a balding older man...the man stopped and hailed us that they were counting turtles for some university and needed their "priv-issy"...obviously a professor and his "student"...casts doubt on all such counting "projects"

seanz
08-06-2008, 06:45 PM
Isn't science wonderful?
Of course there is no suggestion of any such monkey business in the Congo survey.

brad9798
08-06-2008, 10:35 PM
Read Fossey's work ... their culture is quite complex ... as are all upper primates. Ish.

Heck, I need to find it, but there was a multi-year study way back when with Chimps ... over the years, their were the confirmed bachelors ... theifs ... rapist ... even murdering chimps ... AMAZING, really.

The Bigfella
08-06-2008, 10:52 PM
But did they go to war over oil?

brad9798
08-06-2008, 11:50 PM
No! ;)