Prices of the epoxy's

[Dale R. Hamilton]

My last thread on new epoxies caused me to write System Three, West, and MAS for their current pricing by catalog. Figgering 1 gal resin plus 1/2 gal hardener- here's what I got:

MAS: $121.37

System Three: $112.00

West: (.98 gal): $83.70

Thats a substantial difference in my view. The new System Three Silvertip stuff gal resin: $79.00 and hardener 1/2 gal $65.00, so $144 for the package. Strikes me, West, the first guys in the business, are still the guys to use.

[DavesFlatsBoat]

A quick look at FGCI - A 1&1/2 gallon kit is $60.63 and 3 gallons is $113.30

Works for me!

ON EDIT - Added

RAKA - 1&1/2 - $76.00 3gallon - $129.00

BoatBuildersCentral - 1&1/2 - $75.50 3 gallon - $129.20

[ 03-22-2005, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: DavesFlatsBoat ]

[ssor]

Rework you numbers to get cost per mixed unit volume.You seem to be comparing package cots instead of cost per unit volume.

[James R]

After a quck look through theJamestown Distributors (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com) site I came up with a price of $111.71 for the MAS epoxy and hardener, $112.00 for System 3, and 98.80 for WEST. As ssor mentioned, to make the comparison valid we have to take into account the different package sizes and the different mixing ratios. West is mixed at a 5:1 ratio while the others are mixed at 2:1 so while with the latter you're getting 1.5 gallons with WEST you're only getting 1.195. The $98.80 ends up working out to $124.02. Even at your price of $83.70, West works out to $105.06. BTW the prices on WEST's (http://www.westsystem.com/) site are the same as Jamestown's.

[ 03-22-2005, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: James R ]

[NormMessinger]

Thank James. You save me the trouble of doing the math. 0.98 gal of WEST does not compare with 1.5 gal of the others.

[Dan Lindberg]

For what it's worth, I use System Three Clear Coat to wet out glass and S3 SB 112 f to fill.

I just got a 1.5 gal CC at $150 and .75 gal SB112 at $101. These prices are up almost exactly $100 sense I got the same stuff a few years ago for the last canoe.

As for that brand resin to use on a project, at least for me, cost is the least important consideration.

I use S3 Clear Coat because 1) it doesn't blush, 2) it's clear, 3) it's very low viscosity, the lowest I've found.

When wetting out thin/very tight weave fabrics low viscosity is very important.

Dan

[Bill Perkins]

I went to the Jamestown site . For purposes of comparison I calculated the price of a mixed 1 1/2 gal. of West , based on the priceing of their nearest package size- $128.64 .

Reasoning that the smaller volume of hardener in the 5:1 mixes must be more highly reactive than that used in the 2:1 mixes , I think the latter are safer , especially for young people .Slight mixing error is less important too .

[ 03-22-2005, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Jason, VA]

A friend of mine who built a houseboat turned me onto this guy

http://www.mrfiberglass.com

His price for slow set epoxy is $53.56 for
1 gal Resin w/ 0.5 gal Hardener

I am going to use it on my 51' sailboat and my 56' houseboat. Plus for me he is local.

[ 03-22-2005, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Jason, VA ]

[Bill Perkins]

That is a great price Jason , and an interesting site . I think it's important to add this clarification : "Slow Cure Rate Epoxy NOTE: Our slow hardener should only be used at temperatures above 80 degrees unless an extremely long curing time is desired. Temperatures below 70F during the cure can result in a 2-3 day drying time." This stuff would probably be practical for me in Atlanta , in mid Summer.I think all builders need overnight cure most of the time .

[ 03-22-2005, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[plyboat]

www.boatbuilder.org (http://www.boatbuilder.org) is selling 1 gallon MAS resin plus 1/2 gallon MAS hardener for about $95 which work out to abot $63 for a mixed gallon of epoxy. There are deals out there if you shop around.
---Joel---

[Jim H]

Dale, I'd use the one I could get locally. West Marine here stocks West System & Maas. If I for some reason run short I can get more the same day. If you knock over an open can of microballons or some such would you want to stop your project until more are delivered by UPS?

[paul oman]

I'm in the business.

marine epoxy manufacturing costs are about $15 to $30 per gallon to manufacture. The curing agents are the expensive part, hence some companies use mix ratios with low amouts of curing agent. non blushing curing agents cost more but still in the $18-$30 range. Besides price compare brittlesness, exotherm, potlife, blush.

paul oman
progressive epoxy polymers
www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html (http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html)

[landlocked sailor]

I will plug Paul's products. I have used about 6 gallons of his 'Basic No-Blush II' and have found it very economical, easy and forgiving to use and easy to add additives. Plus, he's a forumite! Rick

[ 03-24-2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: landlocked sailor ]

[Figment]

Originally posted by Jim H:
Dale, I'd use the one I could get locally. West Marine here stocks West System & Maas. If I for some reason run short I can get more the same day. If you knock over an open can of microballons or some such would you want to stop your project until more are delivered by UPS?Waiting for a UPS delivery is often much more attractive than paying West Marine prices.

Having said that.... Woodcraft stores sell a limited selection of System Three products. Saved my weekend a couple of years ago (before JD carried S3, WA-CT shipping was a 5 day wait).

[Sailman58]

Rick,

I just ordered the sampler kit based on your recommendation. I have been through a lot of MAS up until now, but am thinking about a bigger boat so lower cost epoxy could have a major impact.

[landlocked sailor]

Sailman, I, too, used MAS for my two Tom Hill Canoes
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/p6f3983e879382851b0453be501999325/f779d86e.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/p6ca4a65b09edd67b0d1b51bb62268960/f779d930.jpg
with fine results, but thought I would give Paul's stuff a try since this next project took over 5 gallons. :eek:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/pc97cbb52914bd1bab6a14d401345f853/f77abfcc.jpg
Results were very satisfactory. My only complaint is his cluttered web site; it's difficult to navigate. Rick

[Jim Mathieson]

We've bought fifty gallons of Pauls premium blend at $1260 for 25 gallons.
I like his five gallon plastic jugs with easy to pour nozzle and cap on top. I like the slow exotherm and long pot life which allowed us to mix up one gallon batches in hot weather for applying long pieces of kevlar on our Richard Woods designed Eclipse .
I know it's better to work in cooler temperatures but it seems as soon as the sun comes up the plastic shelter heats up to 80 degrees so the slow exotherm heating up factor and long pot life is appreciated.
Also appreciate the friendly hands on service and any questions were quickly answered by e-mail or phone.

[ 03-25-2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Jim Mathieson ]

[Charles Neuman]

I, too, have been doing the math and am curious about economical alternatives to the major brands. The main thing holding me back is: The major brands can show tons of pictures of huge boats built with their stuff, and they can say they have been in the business for 20 years. So, I figure the stuff works.

Is it reasonable for me to be concerned about epoxy holding up for 10-20 years? I'd love to be convinced that the epoxies Paul sells are just as strong and will hold up just as long.

Also, why does a place like Devlinboats go with an expensive brand? Maybe they get a deal for endorsing a product?

Charles

[plyboat]

Devlin does not get a deal for endorsement as far as I know. We buy it locally in WA. State, but we buy wholesale and by the barrels so the cost is, of course, considerably less.
---Joel---

[Charles Neuman]

Also consider the price per gallon for larger amounts than one gallon.

For System Three, 5 gallons of resin plus 2.5 gallons of hardener cost $390. That's only $52 per gallon.

For Mas epoxies, one 4-gallon resin plus two 1-gallon hardeners add up to $404. That's $67 per gallon. (or $63 from devlinboats)

For West System: 4.35-gallon resin plus .86-gallon hardener comes out to $56 per gallon.

For Progressive Epoxy Polymers, the 2.5-gallon kit of Premium no-blush comes out to $57 per gallon. However, the Basic No-Blush is $46 per gallon for a 1.5-gallon kit.

Raka: 6-gallon kit comes out to $39.80. Best deal yet!

Charles

P.S. So that, as well as Joel's response, answers my question: The expensive brands are more expensive for smaller quantities. For large quantities, the different brands start to even out a little more.

[ 03-25-2005, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Charles Neuman ]

[Jason, VA]

Mr. Fiberglass that I mentioned earlier has a 5 gal resin/ 2.5 gal Hardener kit for $223.08. That works out to $29.75 per mixed gal. Even his 1.5 gal kit works out to $35.71 per gallon. Still beats everyone else by quite a bit. I will let you all know how well it works shortly.

[Jim Mathieson]

Another consideration is are these blushing epoxies at these prices?

[plyboat]

For the MAS it is, if you are not worried about blush then the hardener is about $5 less per gallon. The MAS slow is the non-blushing but the fast will blush. Which ever one you use it is still a 2:1 ratio with the MAS resin, and the two hardeners can be mixed to adjust the curing time. It has been about 8 years since I used WEST or System Three and I do not remember if the non-blushing and standard hardener are mixed at the same ratio to the same resin or if they(hardeners)can be mixed together to adjust curing time like the MAS can...?
---Joel---

[Jim Mathieson]

Having a container of epoxy heat up and fume .Then start melting while glassing a Bolger dingy really shocked me!
Price is secondary to me after that experience ,(edit)exotherm or heating up of the mix and potlife are critical to me as well as smell.Some of the above brands make me light headed .Pauls Premium blend doesn't and it has a very long pot life and forgiving exotherm reaction!.I've yet to try his basic stuff .Also have heard good things about MAS slow ,but I'd buy it by the small drums to get the price down.

[ 03-26-2005, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Jim Mathieson ]

[John Bell]

That's exotherm! Endotherms would be good, though, cuz you could use them to keep your beer cold.

(Too much p-chem will do that to ya! ;) )

[Jim H]

Some companies offer a "tropical" or "extra slow" hardener for those of us who live in warmer climates. These work great for extending pot life, especially in July & August, when a regular hardener would only last 15 minutes or less in any significant volume. That includes pouring the freshly mixed eopxy into a roller tray.

[Charles Neuman]

Make sure to visit www.boatbuilder.org (http://www.boatbuilder.org) again. Epoxy prices are lower! MAS is now about $56 per gallon for six gallons. It's nice to see someone lowering epoxy prices these days.

Charles