Western Red Cedar prices

[soba]

I'm going to look at some supposedly "old growth" WRC. Full dimensional clear 6x6 in 15-18 foot lengths.

Is this worth my $5 for a bf? I need about 720 lineal feet of 6 x 7/8.

[Bob Smalser]

...."old growth" WRC. Full dimensional clear 6x6 in 15-18 foot lengths.

Is this worth my $5 for a bf?

Yes.

In fact, that's an excellent price, as 18' of clear bole came from a forest tree at least 6 feet in diameter at breast height. Which also means it should be 12 rings per inch or better. Sungrown WRC gets bigger faster, but is a knotty tree that runs 4-6 rings per inch.

Old-growth WRC cut into 8X8s and 10X10s for resawing from the Queen Charlottes in BC ran about 4 bucks last I checked, but add a substantial transportation bill.

[ishmael]

Golly, the price of lumber these days. I don't doubt Bob is correct.

Spoiled I was, back when. .45 cents for white pine right off the saw. You had to catch it right, but the guy every once in awhile sawed some big second growth. Chris had a thang going and the guy would call when he was sawing wide stuff. Beautiful stock, and we did good things with it. We did a lot of restoration work, wide panelling and such.

Oh well. I imagine the days of two foot wide, clear, pine for .45 cents are over. Don't know much about WRC.

[Bob Smalser]

Oh well. I imagine the days of two foot wide, clear, pine for .45 cents are over. Don't know much about WRC.

It's all relative. Where it grows you can buy Select Doug Fir right now in 18' lengths for 80 cents a bf that can be easily highgraded into VG decking or framing. But never cedar, because there isn't as much of it. There isn't as much of it because cedar doesn't grow in as wide variety of terrain as DF does.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

WRC is about 9 bucks a bf here... probably shipping costs. As a result I buy Eastern white clear for 1.50 to 2.00 a bf, but I have a hard time getting length.

[soba]

I'm seriously considering yellow cedar, which I can get for $3 bf in clear 22' lengths. The old hull is wrc, so that is where I was headed...

the only thing is that yellow cedar makes me sneeze a lot when I'm working with it...

[Bob Smalser]

I'm seriously considering yellow cedar, which I can get for $3 bf in clear 22' lengths. The old hull is wrc, so that is where I was headed...

the only thing is that yellow cedar makes me sneeze a lot when I'm working with it...

Except they aren't even remotely close in weight or strength. AYC is 40% heavier and stronger....28lb to 20lbs per cubic foot for WRC.

AYC is similar to Doug Fir....it's a framing wood to substitute for oak in light boats and a planking wood best suited for larger, heaver boats. If your boat is an oak-framed 35' troller or larger, then I don't expect problems. If it's a 18' light sailboat, then remaining with WRC might be best for planking. Moreover, as wood weight increases, so does seasonal movement. If yours is a trailer boat WRC is a clear choice.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

5$ for clear? That's a good price. For traditional planking you don't want it to have dried out significantly, how long has it been on the ground? Don't know what kind of a boat your talking about - Yellow is less dimensionally stable than Red Cedar. I always use Red on my small boats. I would be leery of yellow for a trailer rig.

[soba]

1935 Seabird.

WRC on oak, fastened in iron. The fastenings have got to go, and the last owner caulked her from the inside out, wrecking every plank edge he went near. needs new chine logs, too, and I'm working on replacing a bit of the stem as I type. Not to mention some other owner crushing a lot of her planking with these huge and un-necessary stainless screws below the waterline! There's also a hole in the stbd bow right at the waterline from when she tore a mooring (long before I owned her) and hit the beach.

A lot of the planks are sound, but as soon as I think about refastening, I figure it's just as easy to get out new planks.

The other option, I suppose is to spline her with really wide splines...like 1" wide. I'm not sure I like that option...

She has been dry (hah!) for about 6 mos, and will live in the water when done (she's the keel version, and has 800 lbs of iron hanging underneath)

Getting wood for the stem piece was a drag, too. White oak is just impossible to source here in the right sizes. Everyone I talked to just wanted me to laminate doug fir for the stem piece. I finally went with a nice big chunk of garry oak that came down in a blow about 2 years ago...the grain waves a bit, but curves to match the curve of the stem almost perfectly (about 15% runout). Best option, I thought...

The cedar on offer was milled about 6 mos ago. Haven't seen it yet. The guy that has it is NOT forthcoming with much info.

720 bf is the amount of planking. YC would be about 480 lb heavier than WRC. A little less, since that is figuring on 8/8. 420 lb, then at 7/8.

I may just have to let this deal go by, though. I have a wedding to pay for in 6 weeks....

[richbeck]

Does anyone know what the decay resistance properties of yellow cedar are compared to WRC? Here in montana inland yellow cedar is plentiful and cheap but I would be afraid to use it in place of WRC without knowing more about its specific properties.

[Ethan]

It's all relative. Where it grows you can buy Select Doug Fir right now in 18' lengths for 80 cents a bf that can be easily highgraded into VG decking or framing. But never cedar, because there isn't as much of it. There isn't as much of it because cedar doesn't grow in as wide variety of terrain as DF does.

:eek:$0.80 a bf?!? Name & number, please.......

Seriously, I'm not joking

[ishmael]

I imagine the price has gone up a bit with the fuel prices.

I wonder if that guy Chris and I knew is still sawing white pine. He was sort of a crusty little guy. A small, one man operation, an open-sided shed out in the woods and a truck with a boom for moving logs around. I don't know sawmills, but he had a good-sized circular saw with a power carraige.

People are so impatient these days. The pine we used a lot of had to be bought at least a year ahead of time, stickered, and left to dry. People seem to want it NOW, kiln dried. All the middle-men add a lot to the expense.

P.S. "Does anyone know what the decay resistance properties of yellow cedar are compared to WRC? "I don't know western woods very well, but I think they are pretty equal. Yellow cedar is the much better planking stock. WRC, in my limited experience, is a lot more brittle. Good luck.

[Bob Smalser]

:eek:$0.80 a bf?!? Name & number, please.......

Seriously, I'm not joking

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/18208631/286276040.jpg

Any lumber yard here than caters to professionals. Biggest here are Kingston Lumber in Kingston. Parker Lumber in Bremerton.

At the mill the best logs are set aside for long lengths. Buy 2X12's and highgrade what you need from them. These are 18' 2X12 Select Grades you can take two clear 6/4 VG deck planks from. 18' is the typical cutoff for price increases......20-26 footers will be considerably more expensive on a graduating scale.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/18208631/286276039.jpg

These 18-footers were milled at the Seattle-Snohomish mill, are rated for Select structural grade tolerances and were lightly kilned to 19% or just enough to kill the bugs. The graders at the mill are certified by the West Coast Lumber Bureau.

[neilm]

Does anyone know what the decay resistance properties of yellow cedar are compared to WRC? Here in montana inland yellow cedar is plentiful and cheap but I would be afraid to use it in place of WRC without knowing more about its specific properties.

Both are incredibly durable. I've seen 50 year old WRC Cedar Shingles in excellent condition. A study I read on AYC stated it was as durable as treated lumber. Here in AK we have stands of dead AYC over 100 years old. They simply will not fall down after they die.

Neil

[Ethan]

thanks Bob!
I'm done with using SYP, so developing some sources for DF seems the necessary solution.

You just can't get select SYP - the counter gnomes just look at you like there's a third eye in your head when you inquire about it.

My sawyer's really pissing me off lately too...only wants to sell me cypress - cypress this, cypress that, blah, blah, blah. Deer in the headlights look when I explain that it's not as strong as pine, the (whatever) project was engineered for pine, etc. All I hear is "I'm selling cypress beams to the East and West coast for $4-6/bf and offering to you for half that, and you want pine?":rolleyes:

Anyway, sorry for the rant and thanks for the leads - if you know of any small mills with exceptional product that you'd like to refer, please let me know.