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Dutch
07-23-2008, 11:53 AM
watch this video as he says he wants a national police force, and tell me there isnt something apocolyptic about to transpire if this nut job gets elected, by the lemmings of our country.

Here come the brown shirts. Get ready.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sEhzvyblUy4

Dutch
07-23-2008, 12:22 PM
Amusing? Current president?

Im talking about your saviour here. YOURS. How do you defend this? I take you think a national police force goose stepping around the country is a great idea?

elf
07-23-2008, 12:22 PM
We already have way too many national police forces. We just don't see them because they're not around lately. So Blackwater is getting ready to become the replacement.

Kaa
07-23-2008, 12:28 PM
Every year around so-called “tax freedom” day, people talk about moving from working for the government to working for themselves. But this is too glib because it conflates paying taxes with compelled physical labor. There is a big difference, one central to the history of Anglo-American liberty.

Under the medieval system in much of Europe, serfs or peasants owed obligations of actual physical labor (beyond military service) to their political overseers. As English liberties grew, this obligation of physical labor was replaced by the right to pay taxes instead, with the chief exception being obligations of military service for males. Free men were increasingly free to choose their line of work and pay their political overseers with money, rather than owing an obligation of service to whatever physical tasks happened to be thought important or profitable to the upper and the political classes.

Service Nation is an organization devoted to stripping away this bulwark of Anglo-American liberty, hoping by the year 2020 to require every young American man and woman to be drafted into either military or community service (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_07_20-2008_07_26.shtml#1216794178). Their more immediate goals include passing a National Service Act in 2009 (which would probably not require universal service).

But they do not even discuss the Constitutional Amendment that ought to be required before they can mandate community service and take away the hard-won Anglo-American liberty from involuntary servitude. The Constitution gives the Federal Government the power to raise a military, which in the 18th century contemplated an obligation of male citizens to serve in the military. In my opinion, the Constitution does not give the Federal Government the power to compel community service.

Let’s hope that the Supreme Court would not permit Service Nation's move backwards to a more feudal relationship between ordinary people and the people who govern them. One senses that de Toqueville understood American values of volunteerism and freedom of association much better than the people behind Service Nation, an understanding that was also concerned about the tyranny of the majority.(http://volokh.com/posts/1216818742.shtml)

Kaa

pcford
07-23-2008, 12:39 PM
watch this video as he says he wants a national police force, and tell me there isnt something apocolyptic about to transpire if this nut job gets elected, by the lemmings of our country.

Here come the brown shirts. Get ready.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sEhzvyblUy4

Is Tylerdurden writing Dutch's stuff these days.

Nanoose
07-23-2008, 12:40 PM
What's wrong with a national police force? Many great countries have them.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
07-23-2008, 12:48 PM
No he's not Dutch.
It's all a scary dream.
Go back to sleep.

Bob Cleek
07-23-2008, 12:49 PM
I always thought "Stasi" had a much more effective ring to it than "United States Department of Homeland Security."

Dutch
07-23-2008, 12:50 PM
What's wrong with a national police force? Many great countries have them.


lets see, china, cuba, north korea, the old soviet union. yeah theyre great.:rolleyes:

Kaa
07-23-2008, 12:51 PM
Did this guy forget that this country indeed did have a draft? For many years?

Bothering to read what you're replying to can be useful :D


I'm in complete accord with the idea of mandating some national service, either military or civilian. Many developed nations have such a requirement, and I can't think of a better way to get people to be actively involved in the direction of the country.

<rolls eyes>

So, forcing people into involuntary servitude for a year or so is the best way for them to get "actively involved in the direction of the country"? Really?

What is "the direction of the country", by the way?

Kaa

Nanoose
07-23-2008, 12:54 PM
lets see, china, cuba, north korea, the old soviet union. yeah theyre great.:rolleyes:

Great 'selective' thinking there, Dutch. :rolleyes:

botebum
07-23-2008, 01:00 PM
I don't have a problem with a National Police Force but I thought we had the FBI, Federal Marshalls, etc. for that. What I don't like is Bush's tactics of using a Secret Police force and throwing it all under the heading of Homeland Security.

Doug

Tylerdurden
07-23-2008, 01:03 PM
We once had national service, actually state service, it was called the Militia.

Besides PMSFords crack I have to say the whole Hitler youth think is scary. I have no doubt Obama is part of the new world order crowd considering who his advisers are and the fact of his memberships and his secret getaway meetings.

High C
07-23-2008, 01:05 PM
"Just as well funded"....so Obama supports a doubling of what we spend on defense, or a halving of what we spend on the military if dollars are to be kept constant. Neither is acceptable.

This one is gonna stick around and bite him, a horrible idea.

Kaa
07-23-2008, 01:12 PM
So, you opposed the draft during the vietnam War...and would have opposed it during WWII? You considered it to be 'involuntary servitude' in both cases?

Yes, it is involuntary servitude. But there's a big difference between military draft and "national community service". The point of the military draft is to have an army that will (theoretically, at least) protect the country. If there's no viable threat, the draft is not needed -- and so the US and much of Europe dispensed with it.

The point of the national community service is..? Umm... Cheap labor pool? Obedience to authority training? Ease of brainwashing attempts?


It's what the electorate decides it is.

I still don't understand. As an example, what is the direction of the country as decided by the electorate in 2004? Or 2000?


Compelling people to actively participate in national service is the key element...

Is the key element of what?


if we still had a draft, there is no freakin' way in hell that we would have invaded Iraq...

That idea, of course, worked well in Vietnam, right? But anyway, we're not talking about a draft and its usefulness in preventing military adventures -- we're talking about mandatory community service, you know, like judges routinely hand out for misdemeanors.

So, you're saying that having a corps of people who will have to do whatever the government tells them to do will make the government less likely to make expensive mistakes and go off on wild-goose chases, did I understand you correctly?

Kaa

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
07-23-2008, 01:20 PM
You guys need to spit out the hook.
Suckers!

Tylerdurden
07-23-2008, 01:29 PM
You political whores are off topic. Is Obama the Anti-Christ?

Kaa
07-23-2008, 01:44 PM
The point is to encourage the idea that each and every one of us owes something to the nation itself...

Ahem. How exactly involuntary servitude for "a year or two" is going to encourage that idea?

It's like increasing taxes for the purpose of encouraging charitable giving.

Perhaps, you have in mind something more along the lines of forcing people to serve the government because these lazy selfish nogoodniks cannot be made useful to the state in other ways?


I don't think that a year or two of mandatory service is too much of a price to pay for the freedoms we enjoy.

Don't we enjoy these freedoms already without the mandatory service?

This service won't be the price of freedoms, for there is no connection between the two -- it will be taking away some of these freedoms for umm.. for what, again?

Kaa

Nicholas Scheuer
07-23-2008, 01:54 PM
Everhear about the Royal Canadian Mopunted Police? Maybe not, as you sound a bit retarded.

here are a couple of hints; they are Canadian, they used to kride horses, followed by a trusty Husky dog, and they are often called the "Mounties".

Moby Nick

Osborne Russell
07-23-2008, 01:55 PM
watch this video as he says he wants a national police force, and tell me there isnt something apocolyptic about to transpire if this nut job gets elected, by the lemmings of our country.

Here come the brown shirts. Get ready.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sEhzvyblUy4

He says nothing about a national police force. You're a liar.

Dave Gray
07-23-2008, 02:01 PM
When we lived in Spain someone from my father's company assisted me in getting a driver's license. This was rather odd as I was sixteen and the licensing age was eighteen.

A few years later I was going to college here in Portland and I received a letter from my Mom saying I had been called up for the two year mandatory service in the Spanish military. She had to go to the local Guardia Civil office and let them know that as a US national I could hardly be expected to honor this.

I thought nothing of this at the time but years later I wondered how the license had been obtained.

Many countries throughout the world, not necessarily Soviet bloc (or ex-bloc) countries, require military duty of its male citizens, and some extend this to females as well.

One could argue that the National Guard has been used as a national police force although its role has been expanded by Bush and Cheney to be a more active military presence in wars in order to avoid a draft.

Kaa
07-23-2008, 02:08 PM
He says nothing about a national police force. You're a liar.

Well, let's take a look at transcripts.


We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set... We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.

A civilian national security force that's just as powerful as the military. Oh-oh.

Actually that sounds much worse than the national police force (which is what I believe FBI is). It sounds like a whole new branch of federal homeland security apparatus the size of the US Armed Forces. TSA writ large, if you will.

Combine it with Obama's FISA vote and... what were you saying about continuing Bush's legacy?

Kaa

Saltiguy
07-23-2008, 03:15 PM
I'd like to know the CONTEXT of his words on this video. It appears he is addressing a law enforcement audience and my guess is that he is talking about federal revenue sharing to local (existing) police departments who have been forced to take-on federal problems regarding immigration and terrorism.

Any comments?

Yeadon
07-23-2008, 03:26 PM
Pretty obnoxious to think that we'd produce the anti-christ. That's a Canadian responsibility. Gotta do that sort of thing under the radar.

High C
07-23-2008, 03:30 PM
You're reading into Obama's comment something he did NOT say... he didn't say, or even imply, that a national civilian security force would be 'just as large' as the military.

Neither did I. I used Obama's exact words, "as well funded", not 'just as large'.

Rum_Pirate
07-23-2008, 03:35 PM
Having read this thread, now I know why I like sailing.:)

Kaa
07-23-2008, 03:36 PM
I'd like to know the CONTEXT of his words on this video.

Go for it.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/20/obama%E2%80%99s-civilian-national-security-force/

Kaa

cs
07-23-2008, 03:39 PM
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

First question is who would this civilian "national security force" that is just as powerful as our military (his words, read the quote) be answerable to? And why do we need it?

Chad

Rick-Mi
07-23-2008, 04:02 PM
First question is who would this civilian "national security force" that is just as powerful as our military (his words, read the quote) be answerable to? And why do we need it?



WE sure don't need it, but politicians with intent on controlling the American people sure do. Nothing like an American Gestapo ready and waiting to pull a Waco or Ruby Ridge anywhere and anytime a citizen steps out of line with Big Brother. Who knows, with the recent support of the spy bill it could be the wrong thing said on a phone call, email to a "questionable" person, donation to the wrong church, or no church. Welcome to the New World Order.

Is this the type of "CHANGE" Obama supporters have in mind? Imagine how an American Gestapo fits right into this vote?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHt2-basCT4

High C
07-23-2008, 04:08 PM
If McCain has a functioning brain cell left in his head, he should be able to use this to destroy Obama. This is dynamite.

skuthorp
07-23-2008, 04:24 PM
Rather as in Ric-Mi's "side bars", I'm inclined to think that the thread title reveals the real agenda here, and is a measure of provocation and desperation.

Rick-Mi
07-23-2008, 04:25 PM
Amusing? Current president?

Im talking about your saviour here. YOURS. How do you defend this? I take you think a national police force goose stepping around the country is a great idea?


Well said Dutch. I tell ya, you've got unquestioning Obama supporters staring down the wrong end of both barrels on this one.....

Rick-Mi
07-23-2008, 04:27 PM
If McCain has a functioning brain cell left in his head, he should be able to use this to destroy Obama. This is dynamite.

I agree 100%, who in the hell wants an American Gestapo???:mad:

Rick-Mi
07-23-2008, 04:31 PM
I'm an Obama supporter... and I'm questioning.


I got that. I think we all need to stand back and evaluate what we are forced to support in a two party system. They have us shouting back and forth like a Miller Lite commercial "tastes great, less filling" while the puppeteers do whatever they want in tandem, often contrary to our interest as citizens.

Rick-Mi
07-23-2008, 04:35 PM
Maybe Republicans who are pleased with the trampling of the Constitution, specifically, the Fourth ammendment? Except that this 'gestapo' doesn't walk around with jackboots... instead, it invades the privacy and constitutional rights of every American, by snooping on ALL private communications without bothering to get a warrant.

Apparently you aren't aware this has been going on since the mid 90's, at least that is the point it was made public by real patriots. You also must have missed the short youtube video I posted up that relates to this subject and your candidate. It's worth 1 1/2 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHt2-basCT4

Cuyahoga Chuck
07-23-2008, 04:51 PM
Amusing? Current president?

Im talking about your saviour here. YOURS. How do you defend this? I take you think a national police force goose stepping around the country is a great idea?

If you would get your nose out of youtube and peruse sources that have proven journalistic reputations you could present material worth chewing on.
Most of us are not inclined to make a meal of garbage drummed up by some right-wing provoceteur.
Get serious.

Captain Blight
07-23-2008, 05:05 PM
You political whores are off topic. Is Obama the Anti-Christ?Every bit as much as I am. Following the tenets of the Cult of the Fatherless Man is all well and good, but let's face it: I think Saint John may have been in the wilderness far too long, subsisting on curious mushrooms and toads, when he "wrote" that specious bit of fearmongering known as the Book of Revelation.

The sooner we get religion--and especially Christianity--out of politics, the better. BTW, quit using the word "savior" in reference to Obama. He's nobody's "savior." He's just another man, albeit probably a better man than anyone else who's put their hat in the ring.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
07-23-2008, 06:43 PM
"The sky is falling!!!!"


http://www.gifmania.sg/Disney/chicken-little/Chicken-Little-dancing.gif

Dutch
07-23-2008, 07:18 PM
I took a look at the full speech, and will freely admit that the paragraph in question is wierdly 'stuck into' the speech... the rest of which is superb, and basically is a call for Americans to participate and contribute to society.

We'll have to wait and see how this gets explained. I will admit to being less than comfortable with it.


its nothing less than a call to give your life to the state for a period of time. with no choice in the matter.

something he wasnt willing to do apparently.

looks like socialism at it finest.

pcford
07-23-2008, 07:20 PM
Pretty obnoxious to think that we'd produce the anti-christ. That's a Canadian responsibility. Gotta do that sort of thing under the radar.

Brilliant deduction! My hat is off to you, sir!!! Nobody will suspect!

Duncan Gibbs
07-23-2008, 07:24 PM
its nothing less than a call to give your life to the state for a period of time. with no choice in the matter.

something he wasnt willing to do apparently.

looks like socialism at it finest.

So socialist states include Greece, Israel, Switzerland, Spain amongst others. Australia isn't socialist: We're so M.O.R. it aint funny! :rolleyes: The only time we had the draft was during Vietnam when we had a conservative government. Go figure!

Tom Montgomery
07-23-2008, 07:52 PM
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/33500/Obama-The-Demon--33963.jpg

skuthorp
07-23-2008, 10:06 PM
Half the world runs on volunteers, but it doesn't pay a wage and therefore isn't counted in GDP as conventional economics don't recognise that it exists. You know. Reagan and Thatchers model: "It's an economy not a society"

Nanoose
07-23-2008, 10:21 PM
Man! I'm surprised no one has mentioned any anti-Christ characteristics, and the fact that we do not (yet) see them in Obama.

Duncan Gibbs
07-23-2008, 10:22 PM
Yeah! Tom's picture looked more like an angry ram in a suit! :D

Houndog
07-24-2008, 11:56 AM
I wouldn't count on America being a free country forever if it's a free country now that is. Maybe three generations from now people won't even know what freedom is.

jbelow
07-24-2008, 01:37 PM
Obama has to be a madman and his supporters are being played like an orgain grinding monkey. A national police force that is well funded and is as strong and as powerful as our military will make our present Home land security force look like girl scouts. Where will the funding come from?

There was no outrage from the libturds when the Clinton adminisration stomped on the constutional rights of citizens at Waco and Ruby Ridge but are outraged at Bushs homeland security and not giving foreign murdering terrorist full constitution rights of American citizens.

Hopefully Obama will flip flop on this one also.

Tylerdurden
07-24-2008, 02:18 PM
Meanwhile as the peasants fight over which party to support,
David Rockefeller laughs quietly under his breath while sharing a smile between Dick Cheney seated on his right and Obama on the left.

"Just wait until we start the Mars attacks thing Dick, we will have these peasants asking for a soldier in their houses"

"Ha, Obama replied, I will have all those democrats signing up to turn in their mothers and fathers"

"Ha Ha Ha" they all laughed

Osborne Russell
07-24-2008, 03:57 PM
Obama has to be a madman and his supporters are being played like an orgain grinding monkey. A national police force that is well funded and is as strong and as powerful as our military will make our present Home land security force look like girl scouts.

The Chimp squad speaks of excessive domestic policing as a monkey smears itself with its own excrement.

abbyj
07-24-2008, 06:50 PM
ROTFLMAO:D:D,

Barack Obama:


"When I am President, I will make it mandatory for all citizens to eat their own feces"

Norman:


You know, he does have a good point. Feces are loaded with fiber and vitamins and minerals that our bodies didn't fully utilize the first time. The man is brilliant, he makes my legs tingle

Captain Blight
07-24-2008, 06:57 PM
There was no outrage from the libturds when the Clinton adminisration stomped on the constutional rights of citizens at Waco and Ruby Ridge


Check yourself before ya wreck yourself, you dick. I'm no "turd" and I was outraged. Everyone was. EVERYONE understood that Waco was like the Post Office burning down the house to collect on a postage-due letter. EVERYONE understood that the FBI overstepped its bounds at Ruby Ridge. EVERYONE was up in arms about it.


Anyway, if this "national police force" idea had been floated by Newtie in the Clinton years, you'd have retired to the bathroom with a copy of the prospectus and not come out until you were chafed raw.

jbelow
07-24-2008, 07:00 PM
The Chimp squad speaks of excessive domestic policing as a monkey smears itself with its own excrement.

and Obama wants to expand domestic policing ! Obama will out chimp the Chimp.
It is sad that the followers of Chimp Obama are eating the excrement his throws at them.

jbelow
07-24-2008, 07:22 PM
Check yourself before ya wreck yourself, you dick. I'm no "turd" and I was outraged. Everyone was. EVERYONE understood that Waco was like the Post Office burning down the house to collect on a postage-due letter. EVERYONE understood that the FBI overstepped its bounds at Ruby Ridge. EVERYONE was up in arms about it.


Anyway, if this "national police force" idea had been floated by Newtie in the Clinton years, you'd have retired to the bathroom with a copy of the prospectus and not come out until you were chafed raw.

Check yourself before ya wreck yourself . The head policeman in charge( Janet Reno) who was responsible for the screw up at Waco and Ruby Ridge was not fired !

Enough said !

Osborne Russell
07-24-2008, 09:03 PM
I thought you people wanted a strong stand against terrorists who attack America.

jbelow
07-24-2008, 11:08 PM
I thought you people were against home land security and pro-terrorist.

Captain Blight
07-24-2008, 11:12 PM
I thought you people were against home land security and pro-terrorist.
I would like you to explain this statement in terms adapted for the meanest understanding:

(1) WHo are "you people?"

(2) Why would anyone be against the security of the place they live?

(3) And I need you to elaborate on what "pro-terrorist" means. Which terrorists? Which "Freedom Fighters?" ETA? IRA? SLA? Sendero Luminoso? FARC? ANC?

Shang
07-24-2008, 11:41 PM
What's wrong with a national police force? Many great countries have them.

Name six.

jbelow
07-24-2008, 11:47 PM
I would like you to explain this statement in terms adapted for the meanest understanding:

(1) WHo are "you people?"

(2) Why would anyone be against the security of the place they live?

(3) And I need you to elaborate on what "pro-terrorist" means. Which terrorists? Which "Freedom Fighters?" ETA? IRA? SLA? Sendero Luminoso? FARC? ANC?

(1) libturds

(2) I don't know . You would have to ask a libturd.

(3) libturds that wanted habeas corps given to mooslum terrorist held captive and the libturd judges that gave it to them.

Tom Montgomery
07-24-2008, 11:55 PM
You right wing-nuts sure enjoy using the word "turd." Even Dubya uses it. He nick-named Karl Rove "turd blossom."

Oh well.... this is, after all, the party of Mitch McConnell and Larry Craig. Do you boys enjoy wearing frilly shirts as well?

Lew Barrett
07-24-2008, 11:56 PM
Name six.

I think she was thinking of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, Italy, Japan, Sweden, Ireland, and you know...the USA (Dep't of Justice). You know, countries like that. George. could probably name Brazil, and then there's South Africa. Need more? Google it.

Captain Blight
07-25-2008, 12:30 AM
I think she was thinking of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, Italy, Japan, Sweden, Ireland, and you know...the USA (Dep't of Justice). You know, countries like that. George. could probably name Brazil, and then there's South Africa. Need more? Google it.
Aw Hell, I'll just do it.

Wikipedia Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_police).

Of course, BHO was talking about stuffing the Lizard Men into brown shirts and having them come around and seize everybody's guns and force the teenagers to use condoms and get abortions smoke reefers and learn about the history of the Earth in secular textbooks and probably make the jazz musicians look at the white wimmins and maybe the black folk wouldn't even step off the sidewalk when the Lizard Men get through enforcing the Liberal Conspiracy Agenda.

pcford
07-25-2008, 12:58 AM
I think she was thinking of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, Italy, Japan, Sweden, Ireland, and you know...the USA (Dep't of Justice). You know, countries like that. George. could probably name Brazil, and then there's South Africa. Need more? Google it.

Forgot Britain.

martin schulz
07-25-2008, 02:44 AM
watch this video as he says he wants a national police force, and tell me there isnt something apocolyptic about to transpire if this nut job gets elected, by the lemmings of our country.

The depressing part in this statement is not the idea that perhaps a certain politician isn't the right one for the job, but the underlying notion that meaningful events of universal importance (coming of the antichrist or epiphanies) will - of course - take place in the USA. Arrogance & navel-gazing at its best!

Duncan Gibbs
07-25-2008, 03:11 AM
Great spoof of that in a recent Dr Who where the POTUS "assumes" control from the British PM when aliens land in Britain.

Tylerdurden
07-25-2008, 05:16 AM
Obama Speaks to Germany on European Ties


July 25, 2008

Obama Speaks To Germany On European Ties

By JEFF ZELENY and NICHOLAS KULISH

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/07/24/world/obama_600.1.jpg

Senator Barack Obama spoke at the Tiergarten in Berlin on Thursday.

BERLIN — Senator Barack Obama stood before a sea of people here Thursday evening and issued a call for cooperation, imploring America and Europe to bridge differences and rekindle old alliances in an effort to restore global stability and better confront existing and unforeseen threats.

“If we’re honest with each other, we know that sometimes, on both sides of the Atlantic, we have drifted apart and forgotten our shared destiny,” Mr. Obama said. “In Europe, the view that America is part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right, has become all too common. In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe’s role in our security and our future.”

Pausing for a moment, the Illinois Democrat added: “Both views miss the truth.”

Mr. Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, who is on a weeklong international tour, delivered his address at the base of the Victory Column in the Tiergarten, a sprawling park in the center of the city.

He looked out toward the Brandenburg Gate, where President Ronald Reagan implored the Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev to “tear down that wall” and end the Cold War, and spoke to crowd that the German News Agency DPA estimated at 200,000 people.

“I come to Berlin as so many of my countrymen have come before,” Mr. Obama said, confronting the delicate issue of campaigning abroad. “Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for president, but as a citizen — a proud citizen of the United States, and a fellow citizen of the world.”

Mr. Obama, as he visits the Middle East and Western Europe, is eager to prove himself on a worldwide stage as a potential leader of the United States, whose image has become tarnished in Europe, largely because of its decision to go to war with Iraq.

He seemed intent on trying to achieve two goals — healing the wounds left by the Bush administration, which dismissed the “old Europe,” and present an image to voters at home as a president whom the world could embrace.

“No one nation, no matter how large or powerful, can defeat such challenges alone,” Mr. Obama said. “None of us can deny these threats, or escape responsibility in meeting them.”

Linking the battle against terrorism to the struggle of the cold war that defined this city for decades, Mr. Obama spoke directly on the need for more soldiers to fight in Afghanistan, a politically unpopular stance in Germany.

“The Afghan people need our troops and your troops, our support and your support to defeat the Taliban and al Qaeda,” Mr. Obama said.

Mr. Obama was warmly embraced by the German press, which frequently referred to his aura, or as the newspaper Bild put it in Thursday’s paper, the “political pop star.”

Manfred Krause, 65, a retired citizen of the former East Germany, said Mr. Obama’s address brought back memories of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.’s quieter visit to East Berlin in 1964, when he was a student. “I thought, here is someone coming from the same place,” he said.

Yet while Mr. Obama was addressing the sprawling crowd, the most important audience was watching in the United States. The television images, which showed Germans and others waving American flags, created a curious tableau that Republicans in the United States sought to seize on.

In his 30-minute address, Mr. Obama did not overtly criticize President Bush or his presumptive Republican opponent, Senator John McCain, but he did offer a gentle dose of criticism of his own nation.

“I know my country has not perfected itself,” he said. “We’ve made our share of mistakes, and there are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions. But I also know how much I love America.”

On the other side of the Atlantic, where Mr. McCain campaigned in the nation’s midsection on Thursday, he criticized Mr. Obama for traveling to Germany to deliver the address.

“I’d love to give a speech in Germany — a political speech or a speech that maybe the German people would be interested in,” he told a crowd in Ohio, “but I’d much prefer to do it as president of the United States rather than as a candidate.”

The response to Mr. Obama has been so warm that the coordinator for German-American relations in the foreign ministry here, Karsten D. Voigt, has tried to scale back expectations. He reminded Germans in interview after interview that Mr. Obama would have to support positions unpopular with the German public, like a stronger presence engaged in more fighting for the Bundeswehr, the German army, in Afghanistan.

First and foremost, Mr. Obama is popular because he is not Mr. Bush, who is wildly unpopular in Germany. Asked why they support Mr. Obama, his opposition to the Iraq War usually comes up first.

The excitement in Germany over Mr. Obama has grown steadily through the Democratic primaries, reaching its peak with his address here Thursday in the Tiergarten, Berlin’s equivalent of Central Park. Mr. Obama’s photograph was splashed across the front pages of German newspapers. Leaflets advertising the speech with quotes from President John F. Kennedy — who came to this divided city at the height of the Cold War and urged those who did not believe in freedom: “Let them come to Berlin” — fluttered in the street.

“Yes, there have been differences between America and Europe,” Mr. Obama said. “No doubt, there will be differences in the future. But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together. A change of leadership in Washington will not lift this burden. In this new century, Americans and Europeans alike will be required to do more — not less. Partnership and cooperation among nations is not a choice; it is the one way, the only way, to protect our common security and advance our common humanity.”

Before the speech, Mr. Obama met for about an hour with Chancellor Angela Merkel at the Federal Chancellery, followed by an afternoon session with Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier.

A German diplomat, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the two sides had agreed to keep the meeting private, said the discussions with Mrs. Merkel went very successfully, saying: “They quickly found themselves on the same page. It was not superficial at all.”

The official said they spoke in English, and sat on a small sofa, rather than at the table, the more usual but also more formal setting for her discussions. The official said that after the discussion they went out onto Mrs. Merkel’s small balcony, and she explained the sights of the government district around the chancellery building, most of which was built since the Berlin Wall fell in 1989.

In his speech, Mr. Obama addressed the threat of nuclear weapons, Iran and the conflict in the Middle East, offering no new policies, but laying out the challenges facing the United States and other leading nations.

“This is the moment we must help answer the call for a new dawn in the Middle East,” Mr. Obama said. “My country must stand with yours and with Europe in sending a direct message to Iran that it must abandon its nuclear ambitions.”

He added: “Will we stand for the human rights of the dissident in Burma, the blogger in Iran, or the voter in Zimbabwe? Will we give meaning to the words “never again” in Darfur?”

The crowd was filled with many American citizens, including those who stood in lines to register to vote. But the overwhelming share was made up of German residents, who cheered when Mr. Obama called upon the United States to correct its deeds.

Mr. Obama, who is nearing the final days of his international trip, has navigated a political high-wire for days as he traveled through Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan and Jerusalem. From here he will travel to France and Britain before returning to the United States this weekend.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/25/us/politics/sub25OBAMAcnd.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1216980891-TMgNt9XG3XYOI5InaBfrpg


He sure is loved by others. I wonder?

elf
07-25-2008, 05:51 AM
Apparently the print media thinks he's doing OK but the Main Stream Media things Mr. McCain is getting a bum rap. I guess that accounts for threads like this one.

Dutch
07-25-2008, 07:30 AM
heres the answer to your question tyler - from neils news


To say that Europeans are fond of Barack Obama would be an understatement. It seems that he has reached the same level of adulation and worship as he has in the United States. So when asked who Europeans would prefer to see elected as the next US president, it is no surprise that citizens of France, Germany and the UK all chose Barack Obama (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109018/Britons-French-Germans-Solidly-Back-Obama.aspx) ... by a landslide. In the UK, Obama was favored 60-15. In France, 64-4. And in Germany, they chose Barack Obama by a margin of 62-10 over John McCain. Frankly, I'm surprised that the numbers were this low.
Now if it were up to people like Barack Obama, the opinions of these foreign countries would matter. Remember Obama's thermostat comment ... "We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK." What does it matter what other countries think about our habits? In fact, what business is it of our president? But the Europeans sure can't wait for this guy to be in power.
Now here's something that you won't hear from any of the networks when it comes to analyzing the European infatuation over Obama. Several months ago the Pew Research Center did some polling in Europe. That polling showed that 58 percent of Europeans want the United States to be weakened. They want a weaker America. Oddly, that 58 percent figure is pretty close to the margin for Obama. So how are you going to feel about European attitudes about our presidential election if you walk up to someone on the street and have this dialogue:

"Would you like the United States to be weaker or stronger."
"Weaker."
"Who do you support, then, for president?"
"Barack Obama"
Does anyone care to look into the motives behind this European love affair with The Messiah?


in othe words they want us to be weak and fail, so they pick the one who will lead us down that path

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-25-2008, 07:38 AM
no, you're just the garbage.

Tylerdurden
07-25-2008, 07:44 AM
heres the answer to your question tyler - from neils news




in othe words they want us to be weak and fail, so they pick the one who will lead us down that path

Its just so amazing to watch, its in slow motion so one can catch every nuance of this disaster.

High C
07-25-2008, 08:48 AM
What's wrong with a national police force? Many great countries have them.

We already have several, the FBI, DEA, ATF, how many do we need? What is their mission to be?

Which of these great countries have national police forces that are "as strong and as well funded as the military"?

Osborne Russell
07-25-2008, 08:57 AM
heres the answer to your question tyler - from neils news

- - -

in othe words they want us to be weak and fail, so they pick the one who will lead us down that path



Does anyone care to look into the motives behind this European love affair with The Messiah?

Yeah, me. Let's start with your answer. There is a vast European conspiracy to dominate the United States?

Osborne Russell
07-25-2008, 08:58 AM
We already have several, the FBI, DEA, ATF, how many do we need? What is their mission to be?

Which of these great countries have national police forces that are "as strong and as well funded as the military"?

Good questions. I thought you were satisfied with the Republicans' answers.

High C
07-25-2008, 09:16 AM
Good questions. I thought you were satisfied with the Republicans' answers.

:confused:

Osborne Russell
07-25-2008, 09:21 AM
GOP:

1. Whatever it takes.
2. Whatever may have been the objections to "whatever it takes" are no longer valid after 9/11.

Tylerdurden
07-25-2008, 09:25 AM
He ventured forth to bring light to the world

The anointed one's pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a miracle in action - and a blessing to all his faithful followers

Gerard Baker

And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.
The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow.
When he was twelve years old, they found him in the temple in the City of Chicago, arguing the finer points of community organisation with the Prophet Jeremiah and the Elders. And the Elders were astonished at what they heard and said among themselves: “Verily, who is this Child that he opens our hearts and minds to the audacity of hope?”
In the great Battles of Caucus and Primary he smote the conniving Hillary, wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes of Working Class Whites.


And so it was, in the fullness of time, before the harvest month of the appointed year, the Child ventured forth - for the first time - to bring the light unto all the world.
He travelled fleet of foot and light of camel, with a small retinue that consisted only of his loyal disciples from the tribe of the Media. He ventured first to the land of the Hindu Kush, where the
Taleban had harboured the viper of al-Qaeda in their bosom, raining terror on all the world.
And the Child spake and the tribes of Nato immediately loosed the Caveats that had previously bound them. And in the great battle that ensued the forces of the light were triumphant. For as long as the Child stood with his arms raised aloft, the enemy suffered great blows and the threat of terror was no more.
From there he went forth to Mesopotamia where he was received by the great ruler al-Maliki, and al-Maliki spake unto him and blessed his Sixteen Month Troop Withdrawal Plan even as the imperial warrior Petraeus tried to destroy it.
And lo, in Mesopotamia, a miracle occurred. Even though the Great Surge of Armour that the evil Bush had ordered had been a terrible mistake, a waste of vital military resources and doomed to end in disaster, the Child's very presence suddenly brought forth a great victory for the forces of the light.
And the Persians, who saw all this and were greatly fearful, longed to speak with the Child and saw that the Child was the bringer of peace. At the mention of his name they quickly laid aside their intrigues and beat their uranium swords into civil nuclear energy ploughshares.
From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered through the gate seated on an ass. The crowds of network anchors who had followed him from afar cheered “Hosanna” and waved great palm fronds and strewed them at his feet.
In Jerusalem and in surrounding Palestine, the Child spake to the Hebrews and the Arabs, as the Scripture had foretold. And in an instant, the lion lay down with the lamb, and the Israelites and Ishmaelites ended their long enmity and lived for ever after in peace.
As word spread throughout the land about the Child's wondrous works, peoples from all over flocked to hear him; Hittites and Abbasids; Obamacons and McCainiacs; Cameroonians and Blairites.
And they told of strange and wondrous things that greeted the news of the Child's journey. Around the world, global temperatures began to decline, and the ocean levels fell and the great warming was over.
The Great Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar, who many had believed was the anointed one, smiled and told his followers that the Child was the one generations had been waiting for.
And there were other wonderful signs. In the city of the Street at the Wall, spreads on interbank interest rates dropped like manna from Heaven and rates on credit default swaps fell to the ground as dead birds from the almond tree, and the people who had lived in foreclosure were able to borrow again.
Black gold gushed from the ground at prices well below $140 per barrel. In hospitals across the land the sick were cured even though they were uninsured. And all because the Child had pronounced it.
And this is the testimony of one who speaks the truth and bears witness to the truth so that you might believe. And he knows it is the truth for he saw it all on CNN and the BBC and in the pages of The New York Times.
Then the Child ventured forth from Israel and Palestine and stepped onto the shores of the Old Continent. In the land of Queen Angela of Merkel, vast multitudes gathered to hear his voice, and he preached to them at length.
But when he had finished speaking his disciples told him the crowd was hungry, for they had had nothing to eat all the hours they had waited for him.
And so the Child told his disciples to fetch some food but all they had was five loaves and a couple of frankfurters. So he took the bread and the frankfurters and blessed them and told his disciples to feed the multitudes. And when all had eaten their fill, the scraps filled twelve baskets.
Thence he travelled west to Mount Sarkozy. Even the beauteous Princess Carla of the tribe of the Bruni was struck by awe and she was great in love with the Child, but he was tempted not.
On the Seventh Day he walked across the Channel of the Angles to the ancient land of the hooligans. There he was welcomed with open arms by the once great prophet Blair and his successor, Gordon the Leper, and his successor, David the Golden One.
And suddenly, with the men appeared the archangel Gabriel and the whole host of the heavenly choir, ranks of cherubim and seraphim, all praising God and singing: “Yes, We Can.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4392846.ece

Rigadog
08-19-2008, 08:14 AM
I've put a poll up on the subject of Obama's Satanic pedigree. The poll will settle the matter. Please vote so we can move on to the next stupid thing.