Carving hull dioramas?

[Larks]

I'm after any advice from any one who has had experience or who has ideas on carving hull dioramas (half hulls).

I'm keen to keep my hands busy while I'm stuck in Darwin half a world away from my H28 restoration and I'd like to have a crack at carving a H28 diorama (I've got plenty of time on my hands).

I've carved a few "made up" hull dioramas in the past from Beefwood (a wonderfully durable and "beef" coloured timber that I used to pick up in the scrub in Central Australia). These have just been half hulls that I carved away at until they looked a bit like what I felt represented a nice "J" hull, probably completely inacurate but they looked OK 20 years ago.

Now, though, I'd like to carve an accurate representation from the line plans that I have and I'm after any tips if there are any on how best to translate the plans into a carving.

Also what would be your ideal timber to use that is nice to carve and will look good framed and oiled up.

cheers
Greg

[Wild Dingo]

Huon Pine mate... THE ONLY ONE!!!

Of course you will have to take a flying leap down to the pimple to get some good stuff but there you go!

Like you Ive "carved" a nice half hull of my own "design" that looked good... still does actually... but no doubt if a boat was built from it it would do a quick pivot to port a nose dive to starboard and that would be that down she would go!... but it was fun!

Mind you... that was made of Tuart... rock bloody hard... and Jarrah... I tend to use hardwoods for some weird reason :rolleyes: But Ive recently used some Huon for a few things and mate that is the stuff you want! Beautiful timber wonderous smell and I do mean wonderous :cool:

Anyways the best with it
Shane

[Jim Ledger]

You'll have to make the lifts, the horizontal laminations, correspond to the waterlines in the plan view. Chances are, though, that the waterlines on the plan will not correspond to the thickness that you choose to use for the lifts. What must be done is to create new waterlines. It's not that hard to do. On the profile and body plan drawing, draw a series of horizontal lines representing the stacked-up laminations that you intend to use. These are your working waterlines.Make sure that you use the actual waterline for your starting point. The widths of each waterline as it crosses each station can be measured from the body plan and then transferred to the plan view.Then a batten is sprung through the points to give you the actual shape of the waterline, which will be the shape you cut out of the board. Do one at a time to avoid confusion. you'll have to mark the lifts so that when you glue them together they are in correct fore and aft alignment.

If you want to be fussy, you can make outside templates of the sections that you can hold on the model as a guide to carving.

[Larks]

Thanks Shane, I've been hoarding some HP from the interior strip out of my H28 and have been buying a few bits on ebay for the restoration but hadn't thought of using it for the diorama thinking it might be too blonde. I don't have any birdseye or anything and I'd need to laminate some bits together but I'd like to use it as you suggest - as you suggest the smell itself would be "inspirational".
cheers
Greg

[Larks]

Sorry Jim, posted over you there, but there's a new term for me - "lifts" you'd better explain that one for me..? do you mean to carve the laminate layers before actually laminating them?

[Jim Ledger]

Sorry Jim, posted over you there, but there's a new term for me - "lifts" you'd better explain that one for me..? do you mean to carve the laminate layers before actually laminating them?

Lifts is just the modelmakers term for the laminate layers, nothing more.

I don't mean to carve the layers before glueing them up, but to bandsaw them to the shape of the waterlines. This way, the correct shape is almost defined before you start carving.

[rbgarr]

WB Magazine had an excellent illustrated article by Sonny Hodgdon ( and another?) some years ago on how to make a half model. E-mail the research department at the magazine and they might be willing to fax/scan/e-mail it to you for a modest fee.

[rooster]

check out WB no. 182 pg.66 and WB no.33 pg.41

[Jay Greer]

I once had the good fortune to pick a bundle of old wooden ventian blinds out of a trash barrel. They are made of Port Orford Cedar and are great for making station templates. I rub them with chalk in order to get a mark on the model surface.
Screwing on a block block with and angled slot in it on the back side of the model allows for clamping it in the bench vice at more than one angle. I have a set of tiny Japanese planes that I have re-shaped to various curves for shaving the final cuts.
Jay

[Larks]

Thank you gentlemen, I'll track down the WB articles - I feel inspired!! - 'am flying home next weekend for a couple of days and will bring back the huon pine and my H28 plans, though I'm now feeling the need to buy some new weapons for this little project. I just love a good excuse to go and wander around the toy - sorry - tool shop!!

Any thoughts on size/scale? 28' to 28" or is that just a bit too extravagant?

[PeterSibley]

Greg ,
the best carving timber is called jelutong ,it has been the patternmaker's choice for the last 40 years .Similar to white beech but easier to glue .Moxons in Brisbane will have it .

[Larks]

Thanks Peter, I've not heard of jelutong before but I'm having a day In Bris' when I arrive Friday morning (among other things to spend a pretty generous book voucher at Boat Books) so I'll drop in and see what I can score from them. I've not been to Moxons before so I'm interested to see what they have.

[S B]

Chopping a half model,was the normal mode of design here, until about the 60's the larger the model the smaller the margin of error. The idea that they were all carved by eye is B S, they all had their measurements, if only so many fingers by so many fingers. Carving a model to a set of drawings ,just requires alittle accuracy, remember that two scuffs of the sandpaper=1/4:" on the boat.

[rbgarr]

A very bad picture of a basswood half model I made of an imaginary "stretched to 32' " H-28, scaled at 1"=1'. It was a nice size to work in.

(Thankfully, a Herreshoff thunderbolt did not strike me dead for the effrontery. ;))

http://i35.tinypic.com/fyopac.jpg

[Larks]

That looks brilliant, did you carve it from one piece or from laminates in the way that Jim explained?

I haven't yet tracked down the articles that you recommended - is this model as a result of those?

cheers
Greg

[rbgarr]

It was from one big piece because there were no lines for the imaginary boat.

[Larks]

Well nice work mate, it's a bit hard to see the full shape below the waterline but it looks pretty well spot on to me (from my memory of spending quite a bit of time looking at my hull in the shed at home)
cheers
Greg

[J. Dillon]

This conversation about dioramas has me confused.:confused: I always thought that a diorama depicted a scene or setting. Like a ship in port or sailing on a sea. You guys seem to be talking about a half hull models.

JD

[Larks]

Hi JD, that's right - I've seen some very interesting WWII dioramas done as you say but I've always known the half hulls to be called dioramas a well, I think it might be just because they are a 3d model? Someone else may have a more formal explanation..

[PatrickXavier]

A not very good photo of the very beautiful hull (illustrating lifts/laminations) carved by Bruce Askew from the lines of Charles Bailey Jr's 1892 racing cutter, Rogue, the restoration of which Bruce is overseeing in boatbuilder Matt Price's hands.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll182/Rogue1892/IMGP0738.jpg

[Jim Ledger]

Here's one of the schooner 'America", carved from white pine. The lifts are 1/2" thick with the keel, stem, rudder and bulwarks added after the initial carving. Not apparent in this picture is a very slight telegraphing of the lift seams with changes in the humidity.

The model was made from plans, available from WoodemBoat, that include paper patterns of each lift. As I said earlier, similar patterns could be generated for any boat that you have lines and offsets for, enabling you to make an accurate representation of the particular boat.

One hint, glue the lifts together one at a time and avoid the temptation to glue up several. Although you could stop the slippage with a couple of well placed finish nails, you'll get better glue lines by concentrating on each one, one at a time. Spring clamps and yellw glue work well.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/America.jpg

[Larks]

Thankyou for some great advice again Jim, I'm still trying to track down the articles in WB that were suggested but the advice that you are providing here seems to be what I'm after anyway.

I'm still going to check out the jelutong that Peter suggested but I've now ordered some lengths of kiln dried huon pine (99mm x 36mm x @880mm) for this wee project. Maybe I'll make two?

cheers
Greg

[rooster]

One hint, glue the lifts together one at a time and avoid the temptation to glue up several. Although you could stop the slippage with a couple of well placed finish nails, you'll get better glue lines by concentrating on each one, one at a time. Spring clamps and yellw glue work well.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/America.jpg[/quote]
Thanks Jim, I'm just starting one of my own and being me ,I would be tempted to glue up all at the same time,what you said is spot on. I don't like slippage;)

[Larks]

Hi Rooster, I'm interested to know what hull you're putting together and if you're interested in posting progress here as you go? I'm hoping to start on mine in the next week or so (after a quick trip home this weekend). Also is there any chance of you being able to scan those articles and emailing them if I PM my email address to you?.

[rooster]

Lark,I want to do three,one each of the boats I've owned.A 36ft. motor cruiser by Garden. A 1968 Columbia 40 by C. Morgan and my little Eric Jr:) by Atkin. I loved that lil' Eric! I've got some nice clear yellow cedar I'm going to use. I will post pics of progress.
Sorry I don't have a scanner so I can't help you there. What are you building?
Rooster

[Larks]

No problem Rooster, as I wrote earlier I think Jim has covered what I was after pretty well anyway.

I want to have a crack at a H28 half hull - out of sheer frustration that my job at the moment has me parked about 2500k's from home and the H28 that I should be restoring/rebuilding.

I may even start with a little Hartley TS 16 as a "learner" just for kicks (though that may be more of a guess job as I don't have any plans for that one, hard chined though so should be relatively easy from a photo).

I've gone straight from a building job (my own house) to essentially a desk job and am renting an apartment instead of living in my new house on 2 acres so I'm essentially bored as bat **** and wanting to give my hands something constructive to do. This is cheaper than buying another boat up here.

cheers
Greg

[PeterSibley]

Greg ,
these are from the WB index site ...............I suspect there are others ,
Peter


Bray, Maynard, author: "Sonny Hodgdon's Half Models," 33:41

Hammond, Jeff, author: reviewer of Lines, Lofting, and Half Models (book), 103:86

Herreshoff, Nathanael G., designer: comments, photo/half-hull models, 198:80

Hodgdon, George I., Jr. (Sonny), builder: half models, 33:41

Reviews (book), appearing in WoodenBoat listed by author and title: Simmons, Walter J., Lines, Lofting, and Half Models
, 103:86

[Larks]

Thanks Peter, I had come up with the Herreshoff one but none of the others, just needed to widen the seach I guess - much appreciated
cheers
Greg

[Bob Cleek]

There is a 1970's book, perhaps out of print by now, but maybe available from a used bookseller on line, titled "An L.Francis Herreshoff Reader." In this interesting compendium of LFH's articles written for Rudder Magazine, is an entire chapter on carving half-hull models, taking lines off of them, and so on, as taught to him by his father, Nathaniel G. Herreshoff. Of particular interest are the methods they used to transfer station lines (involving chalked patterns) and to hold the hull block for carving (a curiously angled knob attached to the block that permitted its holding in a vise at a variety of angles.) If you can find a copy, you'd be well served to do so!

[Larks]

Thanks for the heads up Bob, I've just managed to track it down on Amazon and ordered a copy.
cheers
Greg

[Bob Cleek]

Looking up something else last night, I also came across a whole chapter on half-hull modeling in one of Gardner's "Small Craft" books, but can't remember which one. Sorry! You'll do fine with LFH's discussion, though. Enjoy the book.