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Spinny
10-11-1999, 11:03 AM
I'm in the process of purchasing a 35' sloop which has been re-powered with a 1995 Gray Marine 31 HP Gas Engine. Does anyone have info or experience using this type of engine? Also, I'm some what a novice with inboards, any suggestions on maintenance and care(oil changes, tune ups, winterizing, spring recommissioning)? Can this type of inboard be worked on and runned on dry dock? How is water pumped in for cooling on land? Thanks.

Bob Cleek
10-11-1999, 02:19 PM
Tall order for info there. You are basically looking for a course in basic engine maintenance and care. Get a copy of Nigel Calder's "Boatowner's Maintenance and Electrical Manual" and follow the advice there. For short answers, unless they've gone back in business, Grey Marine has been dead for at least 30 years, so you can't have a 1995 Grey Marine engine. Try maybe a 1955 Grey Marine.

You can't really run an inboard without the boat in the water. It is possible to run coolant water through the intake from a hose, but that only takes care of the engine coolant. You have to lubricate the cuttless bearing and packing gland on the shaft with water, too, and that requires the boat to be in the water. I suppose you could run the engine in neutral so the shaft didn't turn, but that's about all. I suspect you may have the Grey Marine 4-112, a four cylinder engine. It is a good engine and very simple, but at its present age, probably due for an overhaul and rebuild. As the company is long out of business, parts are difficult to come by. There is an outfit in Michigan, I think, that has a stash of old Grey parts, so a head gasket may be found. I think they advertise in the WoodenBoat classifieds. The problem with the old engines is that they salt up and the cooling system overheats. You may find that replacing the Grey with a newer, and much lighter, mill is going to be cheaper in the long run than nursing the old Grey along. The reduction in weight aft will also make the boat sail a lot better. The old Grey's, like all engines of their era, were pretty heavy muthas.

Dale Harvey
10-11-1999, 07:40 PM
If you read those ads in the back of Woodenboat you will see there is a firm offering new grays. They probably also have service manuals, that you should have. They are no heavier than the new diesels and run a lot smoother. With any care a 1995 model should outlast Bob. Unlike new stuff, a good mechanic can actually fix these things. If it dosn't already have it, a freshwater cooling system that includes the manifold would be worth installing. Why would you want to run it on shore??

Ken Liden
10-12-1999, 01:06 AM
The Grey 112 cid 31 hp is a Continental Teledyne Y 112. It is still readily rebuildable and engine parts are not scarce. Most decent engine machine shops can overhaul for you and they are much much cheaper than the Atomic Four.

The engines are widely used in industrial applications especially forklifts.

The external Grey built parts will not be easy to find. I did read recently that some one has aquired the Grey lable and is in limited production on some currant stuff however I have no details.

Spinny
10-12-1999, 07:17 AM
Dale...my thoughts on running the engine on shore is primarily because I am new to the system, and before I had put any of my boats in the water, I like to try to know the ins and outs of the equipment...so to be able to run the engine on shore would allow me to learn, maintain, and repair prior to being on the water...any brainstorm on this matter would help...thanks.

Henri
10-13-1999, 08:43 PM
Re Gray Marine:
I'm relative new with you folks, but Ijustpulled a matched pair of Gray's from my big woodie, and I really do not know what either they or the Velvet Touch trans are.
the port engine is sn "80RD X 1401", the stbd engine is sn "80RD X 1402", both are 4 cyl, with a 3 7/16 bore X 4 & a minor fraction stoke. I can't find any info on these. What are they?
The trans are Velvet Touch's, but I cannot decipher the partial info on the ID plates. The port trans is model "AS ?7?", sn 253, the stbd trans is model "?? 7706" , sn 880. Both trans have oil pump covers specifing RH (CW from the front) input. the port trans has a CCW output, and the stbd trans has a CW output, when viewed from aft. the main trans housingsis marked 71-1G E21-1 on the port,and 71-1G C6-3 on the stbd. the trans to engine adaptrs are pn 78205.
So what are these? I gather they are very good trans, is this correct? Are they appropriate for an 85hp diesel?
Appreciate any enlightenment.
This is my first woodie boat restoration.

Ken Liden
10-14-1999, 12:04 AM
Re: Gray Marine

Hi Henri,
Sounds like you have a pair of 140 cubic inch Continental Teledyne aka F 140. In the Gray Marine lable they were known as 4-62 and 4-140. They were rated at 55 and 60 horsepower. Everything I said about the 4-112 generally applies to these engines as well.

Hard to believe that you have hydraulic transmissions on these engines. I will run a check on the trans numbers but I seriously doubt that they are suitable for 85 horse diesel. Nearly all of these applications used a mechanical transmission and the engine oil pan was also the pan for the transmission.

E-mail the various casting numbers from the blocks and heads, rods, cranks etc. and I can probably give you a positive ID.

Ken Liden, Liden Engine & Machine

Dale Harvey
10-15-1999, 01:12 AM
First disconnect the flange coupling between the engine and propshaft. This really should be done before hauling a wood boat anyway, but is not so critical on a sailboat with lots of deadwood. This will assure you do not burn up the packing box or cutlass bearing or decapitate someone with a spinning prop. Do not reconnect until the boat has "settled in" when refloated, and then check alignment. Put a bronze "tee fitting" in the line between the sea strainer and the raw water pump. install a marine rated ball valve on this tee and connect it to a water hose adapter useing bronze pipe fittings. Leave the seacock partially open to bleed off pressure from the water hose so you don't burst the pump seal. This system will allow you to flush the engine with freshwater when the boat is overboard if you can get to a dock hose. Do not waste money on one of the fancy off the shelf gizmos that are supposed to do this automaticly. They are junk. If you are on a mooring you could rig up a five gallon pail and close off the seacock,but if you run it dry you could burn up the impeller and or start a fire in the exhaust line. If you have a waterlift muffler you could run into trouble flooding the engine if it is not really well installed and the hose is left on with the engine not running.

Henri
10-15-1999, 07:35 PM
Ken, Thank You! Looks to me that these two Gray engines are about 160 in 3. The blocks have "GRAY MARINE" cast on them, and numbers "L 18 S, and 2". the original head has "F400A 467". The cranks are "C67 F162C319". The exhaust manifolds are F4-110.
I interpret that these may be 1967 engines from what seems to be date codes on the head and cranks. Appreciate your positive ID.
On the trans numbers I put up, that was all I could read for better/worse. Incidently, these trans do not, repeat do not share the engine oil; each trans has it's own oil-to-water cooler and closed circuit circulation.

Bob Cleek
10-15-1999, 10:06 PM
Ken, I sure wish you were around for all those years that I was struggling trying to keep my old Gray 4-112 going! LOL... I couldn't breathe any more life (i.e. starting fluid) into her finally and had to give her a viking funeral. Maybe I could have saved her!

Phil
10-16-1999, 12:28 PM
Spin
There's been an ad running in my local paper for weeks, as follows:
"EVERYTHING from 40' sailboat for sale incl. 4 cyl. Westerbeke diesel. Model 4-107 w/ reverse reduction, heat exchanger. 904-824-8696 "
Every time I saw it, I thought of your post and felt I should call, but you're 1200 miles away, So I thought Naaagh! But today I did it. The guy said it was sold, but he was getting it back because his customer welched on balance of payment.
The seller's name is Tom Tredore and he said the stuff came from a wooden Crocker (ketch?) That he burned and has kicked himself for doing so ever since. He said he was a former owner of a local boatyard, and knew the engine was in good shape.
If all this sounds weird, hear the rest. He sold it for $1500!
I bought a bran spankin' new 4-91 Westerbeke w/ 2:1 gear and f/w cooling and all the bells and whistles, direct from factory in Avon in 1975 for about $2700. I can't begin to imagine what it would go for today.
S'all I know about this puppy. It just may have been used as a mooring! But the price seemed incredible.
If I were you though, I'd think about getting rid of the gas and get into diesel. Might not hurt to call Westerbeke and go see what they have. There's also a Hansen Marine (or such) in Marblehead that repairs and rebuilds Westerbekes.
Just tryna help you spend your money.
Gopod luck.
Phil Ham

Stan Derelian
10-17-1999, 11:49 AM
Van Ness Engineering in New Jersey are selling rebuilt and new Grays. Very helpful folks. You should be able to find their ad in the classified section of Wooden Boat.

Johan
10-27-1999, 05:13 PM
To run a engine in dry condision
try dis

tak a plastic barrel and ty it onder the engine outlet disconnect the intake hose of the raw water and put that in the barrel fil the barrel whit antigel
you can let the engine run until he is warm and your coeling system is protected against rust and cold temperaturer

Johan Belgium

Steve Souther
11-04-1999, 07:52 PM
Ken:
Speaking of hydrolic drive on those 67
engines, you mentioned a while back, what are your thoughts about going in this direction for a new installation? (small
diesel, that is)

Thanks, Steve

Bob Cleek
11-04-1999, 11:59 PM
Just in case it's helpful, I noticed in the maritime collectables section of E-Bay on line auctions last night that somebody is offering Gray Marine engine manuals for sale.

Ed Harrow
04-05-2000, 10:31 AM
Hey I just learned that Spinny was in one heck of a car wreck (other car crossed the median) a while ago. To say the least it seems to have put a bit of a crimp in his style. He might appreciate a "get-well" email or two. Ed

Spinny
04-05-2000, 12:01 PM
This is Spinny's wife.....what a nice thing to do Ed!!! Spinny's starting to get a little crabby on those crutches so I know he's starting to heal. I think he's told you what he's done to the boat (Lady E). Paint's been stripped and some reefing done and soaked the bare wood in linseed oil, inside and out. Boy!! Is he pissed!! He's trying to figure out how to reef on crutches!! I'M NOT DOING IT!!

Liz

Jack Logan
04-05-2000, 04:43 PM
Henri: Gray Four-162
3 7/16 x 4 3/8 - 162 ci.
42 Hp @ 1800 in Lugger version
63 3000 in Express model
Wts 545 and 565 w/ direct transmission
1.5 thru 3.5 : 1 reduction gears
From 1952 catalog, prior to demise of co.

Bayboat
04-05-2000, 10:54 PM
If Graymarine indeed went under 30 years ago, it got a new lease on life. There is a company called Graymarine in Wisconsin, with which I have dealt within the last few years.
It was in Oshkosh, and all I have is the former address and phone number. I believe they moved to Teresa (Theresa?), WI. The old address was 1402 N. Mt. Vernon St., Oshkosh, WI 54901, phone (414) 231-7909. But I don't think that phone number works because there has recently been some shuffling of area codes. Consult the operator, or perhaps the best way is to go to Information for Graymarine in Teresa, WI. If this doesn't work, let me know and I'll track it further.
There are at least two other good sources for Graymarine engines and parts: Van Ness Engineering Co., 252 Lincoln Ave., Ridgewood, NJ, 07450, Phone (201) 445-8685 or 447-1014.
He has new or rebuilt 4-91 and 4-112 and perhaps others. Also, John M. Dubickas, Duby Auto and Marine, 242 Sweeney St., North Tonawanda, NY, 14120, Phone (716) 694-0922. John has a good line of parts as well as new and rebuilt Grays, and good service. Unfortunately, his business seems to be up for sale, but maybe you can get under the wire. For many years Graymarine has been just about the best small gasoline inboard. I have a 1946 model 25HP 4-91 Sea Scout in my Hinckley Sou'wester. The only major work was a top overhaul in 1970. Still runs like a Chelsea clock.

[This message has been edited by Bayboat (edited 04-06-2000).]

Bayboat
07-20-2001, 02:28 PM
Update:
Graymarine is alive and well at 1402 Mt. Vernon St., Oshkosh, WI. They now have a website, under construction, at www.graymarine.org. (http://www.graymarine.org.)
The rumor that Duby Auto & Marine was for sale has not been substantiated. I have dealt with John Dubickas within the last month and they seem to be still going strong.

[This message has been edited by Bayboat (edited 07-21-2001).]