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Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 11:22 AM
I got an e-mail from a member who lurks more than posts telling me I was getting lame after my last banning. I explained I have a lot going on right now and pretty much anyone who doesn't know where I stand is not reading. I am trying to be more non confrontational and figure unless I feel its of immediate need or rises to the level of decent verifiable information I will let it pass.
I kinda hope I am more in line with polite posting and would like to keep it that way but I will post more outside information when I deem appropriate.

With that in Mind I will throw this bomb in the form of a link.

Donít Give Your Consent to Slavery Ė Fight Fascism! (http://worldpressnetwork.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=303&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=6df17fc5a1bd2f739b556069169988ee)


http://worldpressnetwork.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=303

Have fun with it, Mark

hokiefan
06-26-2008, 11:43 AM
Not addressing the links you posted but your first comments. I used to have a supervisor working for me that saw everything in black and white. Happened to be quite intelligent and was a hard worker. But he was very confrontational in his approach to getting something changed, thus he had a hard time getting anything changed.

At one point we had a meeting on a problem. A modification had been made by maintenance, it wasn't working out too well, and Danny had a suggestion. His opening comment in the meeting was, "This change was dumber than dirt and what we need to do is..." Well, you know how much cooperation he got with that line. I was talking with him later about the error of his ways. Finally got him to see that because he had pissed off the maintenance manager and the plant manager in the first half of his first sentence, no one even listened to his good idea - which we ended up implementing 6 months later after people forgot where it came from. It was a struggle for him to be non-confrontational, and he didn't always succeed, but when he did he got a lot more results.

Take this for what its worth, which is up to you to decide. I'm non-confrontational by nature. When someone says I'm stupid I'm not listening to the point they're trying to make. Even if it may be a good one. I try to read points of view here that I disagree with, because I like to learn. Sometimes I change my mind, other times it helps me strengthen my thoughts. But when people say anyone who disagrees with whatever is ignorant, arrogant, a sheeple, or worse, I'm not listening anymore.

My point is, if your civil I'm likely to read and consider your opinion. Thats what your after isn't it.

Cheers,

Bobby

cs
06-26-2008, 11:43 AM
Mark I for one I'm pleased that your are not so confirtational. :D

Chad

Paul Pless
06-26-2008, 11:46 AM
A kinder gentler Tylerdurden... Who'd a thunk it?;)

Milo Christensen
06-26-2008, 11:50 AM
. . . I was getting lame . . .

Is that what happens when you get emasculated? I wouldn't know.

Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 11:52 AM
Is that what happens when you get emasculated? I wouldn't know.

Don't start Milo;)

John of Phoenix
06-26-2008, 12:08 PM
He can't help himself.

You're doing fine. Now about fighting Fascism...


A senior Democratic statesman took to the Senate floor yesterday and delivered a jeremiad against President Bush and his lawlessness the likes of which I'm not sure we've ever heard there before.

What set off Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) was the warrantless surveillance bill sent over from the House this week and seemingly assured of passage in the Senate. The bill significantly broadens Bush's spying powers and essentially guarantees civil-lawsuit immunity for the telecommunications companies that cooperated in earlier surveillance efforts.

But to Dodd, it's just the latest indignity from a president who has come to expect a corrupted political system to jettison the rule of law on his say-so.

"Retroactive immunity is on the table today; but also at issue is the entire ideology that justifies it, the same ideology that defends torture and executive lawlessness," Dodd said.

Here is the text and video of his speech. (http://dodd.senate.gov/index.php?q=node/4476)

"If we pass this legislation, the Senate will ratify a domestic spying regime that has already concentrated far too much unaccountable power in the president's hands and will place the telecommunications companies above the law," he said.

"[B]y short-circuiting the judicial process we are sending a dangerous signal to future generations. They see us establishing a precedent that Congress can -- and will -- provide immunity to potential law breakers, if they are 'important' enough. . . .

Milo Christensen
06-26-2008, 12:09 PM
You're no fun anymore. O.K. I'm done. Go sailing.

Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 12:11 PM
Not that what he is saying isn't true but I seem him as part of the Soprano's himself.
I think is all posturing and bullcrap.

John of Phoenix
06-26-2008, 12:28 PM
I don't know...

"I am here today because with offense after another after another, I believe it is long past time to say: 'enough.'

"I am here today because of a pattern -- a pattern of abuse against civil liberties and the rule of law. Against the Constitution -- of which we are custodians, temporary though that status may be. . . .

"I am here today because warrantless wiretapping is merely the latest link in a long chain of abuses. . . .

"What is at stake is nothing less than equal justice -- justice that makes no exceptions. What is at stake is an open debate on security and liberty. . . .

"This bill does not say, 'Trust the American people; Trust the courts and judges and juries to come to just decisions.' Retroactive immunity sends a message that is crystal clear. . . .

"And that message comes straight from the mouth of this President. 'Trust me.' . . .

"What is the basis for that trust?"

Ticking off examples of "an abandonment of the rule of law" -- including the politicization of the Justice Department and the rolling back of habeas corpus rights -- Dodd eventually came to the ultimate case study.

"I don't think you can hold the rule of law in any greater contempt than sanctioning torture," Dodd said. . . .

"Controlled death. Outsourced torture. Secret prisons. Month-long sleep deprivations. The president's personal power to hold whomever he likes for as long as he'd like. It is as if we woke up in the middle of some Kafka-esque nightmare.

"Have I gone wildly off-topic . . . ? Have I brought up a dozen unrelated issues?

"I wish I had. . . I wish that none of these stories were true.

"But, we are deceiving ourselves when we talk about the U.S. attorneys issue, the habeas issue, the torture issue, the rendition issue, or the secrecy issue as if each were an isolated case! As if each one were an accident! When we speak of them as isolated, we are keeping our politics cripplingly small; and as long as we keep this small, the rule of men is winning.

"There is only one issue here. Only one: the law issue.

"Does the president serve the law, or does the law serve the president? Each insult to our Constitution comes from the same source; each springs from the same mindset; and if we attack this contempt for the law at any point, we will wound it at all points.

"That is why I'm here today. . . . Immunity is a disgrace in itself, but it is far worse in what it represents. It tells us that some believe in the courts only so long as their verdict goes their way. That some only believe in the rule of law, so long as exceptions are made at their desire. It puts secrecy above sunshine and fiat above law."

Salon blogger Glenn Greenwald writes: "[I]f I had one wish this week, it would be that any journalist who will ever write or utter the words 'FISA,' 'telecom immunity' or 'Terrorism' would be forced to watch this speech from start to finish without distraction."

It's a helluva speech.
http://dodd.senate.gov/index.php?q=node/4476

PatCassidy
06-26-2008, 12:36 PM
I think a good rule of thumb is to wait an hour or so before responding to a "confrontational" post of a personal nature. One gets a little time to weigh things a bit more level-headed and also allows time for other non-partisans to put in their two cents.

Mrleft8
06-26-2008, 12:37 PM
I thought you were playing with your boat today.....

Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 12:48 PM
Had to come home and handle issues left over before all the busy times this past few days. I am going back out after tonights storms to check and pick a couple of items for the sail tommorow and I didn't get back from the wake until midnight and I was up at 5 to move Marla. Being sick since Monday doesn't help either.
Plenty of boat next three days:)

Paul Pless
06-26-2008, 02:00 PM
...and also allows time for other non-partisans to put in their two cents.Non-partisans? there are no, 'non-partisans' here.;)

Keith Wilson
06-26-2008, 02:04 PM
You're not being lame. One can be polite without giving up one's convictions. I certainly don't expect you to give up your convictions (whether I agree or not, we need some folks like you), and I'm glad you're being more polite. http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Tabitha ( Gaff rig girl )
06-26-2008, 02:14 PM
I have to say....I like the new & improved Tylerdurden!!! :)

Michael s/v Sannyasin
06-26-2008, 03:14 PM
If you haven't read it, you should read the Dale Carnige book How to Win Friends and Influence People. I didn't read it for a long time because it sounded to me like a course in how to manipulate people, but it is really just the opposite. It tells you subtle ways that you undermine your own credibility.

It's a beautiful book about how to treat everybody you interract with, with respect. And how that then translates into a deeper respect for you and the things you say and do.

Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 03:57 PM
I have to say....I like the new & improved Tylerdurden!!! :)

Thanks!

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-26-2008, 04:00 PM
Who are you, and what have you done with Mark?

Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 04:04 PM
If you haven't read it, you should read the Dale Carnige book How to Win Friends and Influence People. I didn't read it for a long time because it sounded to me like a course in how to manipulate people, but it is really just the opposite. It tells you subtle ways that you undermine your own credibility.

It's a beautiful book about how to treat everybody you interract with, with respect. And how that then translates into a deeper respect for you and the things you say and do.

Funny story, I first came to Miami after the Navy and flew but also started working with a buddy who did restaurant repair. After a few months of frustration of the way I talked to customers he kept threatening Dale Carnigie. After telling an executive chef to fix his own damn dishwasher that was the last straw so off I went.
The guy teaching the course was from Nashua NH and we all had to do the introduction and where we were from. I said Worcester Ma. and he said "Oh I have a hard case here" We actually got along but I was the butt of how not to do it the whole time.:D

Michael s/v Sannyasin
06-26-2008, 04:31 PM
You're from Woooster? Oh, that explains a lot!

As part of the course, did you read the book? I'm not sure if the courses would be as genuine as the book, the book has a lot of heart in it.

(lived for a while in Concord and Marblehead, worked in Boston)

Anyway, Mark, I like the direction you're trying to go. I enjoy your posts, because often you point out things that I didn't know about... mainly because I just don't tune in to any news sources... like Lara said....

But, I tune right out if it sounds like you're getting down on people. Some people are unaware, but that's not a personality defect, it is just where they are at the moment. Others, have other things in their life that are taking up their attention, so, maybe they are not focused on exactly what you're focused on.

I appreciate what you're doing, because you're trying to make a difference. And, the first part of that is making people aware of what is going on. If you can do that without alienating people, so much the better.

The second part is to have some suggestion about a course of action. It is easy to run around and say 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling', but most people are going to respond by saying 'OK, so, if I believe you, what am I supposed to do about it.'

Have you ever seen the movie Twelve Monkeys? They mention something called the Cassandra Complex... apparently, Cassandra could see the future, and she would tell people about it, but she was powerless to actually change the future because people ignored her.

On some threads, various pieces of legislation were up for a vote and someone would post and plead for folks to click on the link they provided, to send some feedback to such and such a member of congress to urge them to vote one way or another.... OK, I can do that.

It's not enough to simply yell at people to "wake up". I'm a buddhist and I've been trying to "wake up" for 23 years, it's not that easy!

Spin_Drift
06-26-2008, 05:01 PM
Mark... This is great. :)

You will will make new friends, gain new respect and reach more people this way...:D:D

BTW, the Dale Carnegie book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is an excellent book...

Spin_Drift
06-26-2008, 05:12 PM
I think you'd like this...;):D:D:D

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1877402&posted=1#post1877402

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
06-26-2008, 05:28 PM
If the shoe fits.........

http://www.biggletech.com/stuff/forumpics/lame.jpg

JBreeze
06-26-2008, 06:17 PM
Ah, man I'm dumbfounded...especially on a day when the major market averages are down 3% and you could be saying "I told you so.....".

I certainly don't expect you or anyone to to hit a home run every at bat, but .333 usually gets you on an all-star team and you are doing better than that:).

Wasn't it about 6 months ago when you warned about Citigroup (and the bankers in general), along with FASB 157? I think Citi was trading for $35 at the time.....today it closed at $17.67/share:D

Hell, even I get one right once in a while....a parrot here was reiterating Goldman Sucks view on Pfizer while I tried to show examples of why they have had a series of less than stellar product introductions. Pfizer was $21.50 then (a great dividend yield):eek:. Today it closed at $17.17 (with an even better dividend yield!):D

So stick with it....I know just a little about financial markets as a hobby, but don't have the breadth of knowledge about other things that you demonstrate. If a watered down approach is in your future, it won't have the impact to cause people to research and investigate.

Continuing with the baseball analogy, you should have been an umpire, 'cause I admire the way you call 'em as you see 'em!

Duncan Gibbs
06-26-2008, 06:43 PM
Hey Mark! If someone else knows about the 'Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars' thang, it would have to have been you mate! I found out about it from the album title of a Melbourne electronica/techno act called Black Lung (hard listening but excellent music).

It's interesting to read Michael talk about people needing to wake up.

I wonder if anyone here has read the work of Walter Benjamin? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Benjamin) The main concepts he wrote about where things like "collective mass dreaming, aesthetics/anaesthetics" and the endless reproduction of novelty. His most famous writing is an essay called The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction. (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm)

How true his theories have turned out to be.

Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 08:19 PM
Hey Mark! If someone else knows about the 'Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars' thang, it would have to have been you mate! I found out about it from the album title of a Melbourne electronica/techno act called Black Lung (hard listening but excellent music).

It's interesting to read Michael talk about people needing to wake up.

I wonder if anyone here has read the work of Walter Benjamin? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Benjamin) The main concepts he wrote about where things like "collective mass dreaming, aesthetics/anaesthetics" and the endless reproduction of novelty. His most famous writing is an essay called The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction. (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm)

How true his theories have turned out to be.

I am pretty sure I posted on silent weapons a ways back, I will see if I can find it when I have some time to dig.

Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 08:27 PM
Ah, man I'm dumbfounded...especially on a day when the major market averages are down 3% and you could be saying "I told you so.....".

I certainly don't expect you or anyone to to hit a home run every at bat, but .333 usually gets you on an all-star team and you are doing better than that:).

Wasn't it about 6 months ago when you warned about Citigroup (and the bankers in general), along with FASB 157? I think Citi was trading for $35 at the time.....today it closed at $17.67/share:D

Hell, even I get one right once in a while....a parrot here was reiterating Goldman Sucks view on Pfizer while I tried to show examples of why they have had a series of less than stellar product introductions. Pfizer was $21.50 then (a great dividend yield):eek:. Today it closed at $17.17 (with an even better dividend yield!):D

So stick with it....I know just a little about financial markets as a hobby, but don't have the breadth of knowledge about other things that you demonstrate. If a watered down approach is in your future, it won't have the impact to cause people to research and investigate.

Continuing with the baseball analogy, you should have been an umpire, 'cause I admire the way you call 'em as you see 'em!

J, I will keep posting the financial but since back I was only addressing you. I have gotten some crap for falling off and as long as I can keep the heat down I will.
I still stick with September barring any major event. We just came back from the mooring and my son was commenting on how its empty this year when it was full last. Only a few powerboats and they were the clammers and bait boats. The local marinas are the same way. I have never seen it so bad and everyone is saying the same thing. I cannot imagine they can keep this bubble afloat much longer.

Memphis Mike
06-26-2008, 08:42 PM
I liked the old Mark better. Who is this sissy imposter?:D

ishmael
06-26-2008, 08:51 PM
A bit wild, and ready to assert obtuse theory as fact, but not lame. Well, no more lame than all of us.

My only objections have been falsehoods you presented about me. I don't get my back up easily, but when it's up I'll fight you. I don't like lies.

Tylerdurden
06-26-2008, 08:56 PM
A bit wild, and ready to assert obtuse theory as fact, but not lame. Well, no more lame than all of us.

My only objections have been falsehoods you presented about me. I don't get my back up easily, but when it's up I'll fight you. I don't like lies.

What falsehoods were that?

ishmael
06-26-2008, 09:28 PM
What falsehoods were that?"

Um, "those." If you'd used the singular you could use "that" with a was, not a were. Could be wrong, I'm looking at it. I love tinkering with words and trying to make them right. Actually, I think your structure is correct.

You know the slanders. I'm not going to honor them with repetition. You smeared me, a bunch of people have smeared me for no good reason. And I'm not going to defend myself against idiots.

Duncan Gibbs
06-27-2008, 01:34 AM
Just let this one go through to the keeper! :rolleyes:

The Bigfella
06-27-2008, 03:47 AM
You know the slanders. I'm not going to honor them with repetition. You smeared me, a bunch of people have smeared me for no good reason. And I'm not going to defend myself against idiots.

You mean like your admission of just whacking it in when she said "no"? Or just slapping her, because she really needed it? Jack - no one slandered you, you put your hand up and said you committed domestic violence, or, today, rape. Go look in the mirror.


In today's world she could have cried RAPE, because at the moment she said no. In retrospect I should have honored that, but I didn't.

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81538&page=3

Post # 110

ishmael
06-27-2008, 06:34 AM
Bigfella,

I slapped a woman, open handed. One woman, one time. She was absolutely hysterical and had been for forty five minutes. I can't remember exactly what the issue was, but it wasn't anything I'd done and it wasn't a hard slap. It was a com'on, snap out of it slap. I'd want someone to do that for me if I were losing it. If that makes me a domestic abuser...

And if no, at the point of entry, after an hour of yes, all at nineteen years of age, makes me a rapist...

I'm guilty. Lock me up.

I'm neither any kind of abuser nor a rapist. While I'm for some of the increased sensitivity and awareness about these issues, they get carried too far, often. Did you know that at some American universities today a boy and girl doing what boys and girls do, the boy needs to ask permission at every discrete step of the love making? Ridiculous stuff, like "May I touch your breast now?" It's written into the university code! Mostly by radical feminists.

My code was pretty well expressed by Joyce.

...I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes. "

The Bigfella
06-27-2008, 08:18 AM
Physical violence is physical violence. Must've been a great relationship to have a a partner who "was absolutely hysterical and had been for forty five minutes".

No means NO. The absence of a no does not necessarily imply consent either. But, no means NO. Get it? She said NO. If she says NO and you do it, it is rape. Care to show me a court that thinks otherwise? Guess what mate - half way through and she changes her mind and says no, its still rape.

ishmael
06-27-2008, 08:36 AM
"Physical violence is physical violence."

Rebecca, who I was with for fourteen years, said you will only hit me once. Funny thing is the only physical violence in that love was she hitting me. Knocked me off a chair she did in the midst of an argument. Did that make her a domestic abuser? No, it made her human.

Get real, people.

Duncan Gibbs
06-27-2008, 08:39 AM
Oh well! Mark's being nice, so someone had to step in! :rolleyes: :p :D

ishmael
06-27-2008, 09:19 AM
"Must've been a great relationship to have a a partner who "was absolutely hysterical and had been for forty five minutes".

It's OK to give someone a dope slap now and then. Get over it! It's not OK to be in any way brutal with people.

Kris is a very fine person. Anyone worth their salt can lose it for a bit. I don't remember what made her go off, it was probably questions about our marraige. But giving her a smack up side the head fit. It stopped her fit. She looked at me like I was from Mars and stopped weeping and started talking.

I wonder if she even remembers it? Probably not. It was not any kind of abuse.

The Bigfella
06-27-2008, 06:07 PM
But giving her a smack up side the head fit.


Violence by the physically stronger person in a relationship isn't justifiable Jack. Neither is rape. Don't believe me? Try running a poll on each issue.

Duncan Gibbs
06-27-2008, 06:09 PM
Gentlemen! Take it to another thread for goodness sakes! Have either of you clicked on any of the reading here. Mark's stuff is great and IMHO the essay by Walter Benjamin is one of the finest pieces of writing... EVER!

ishmael
06-27-2008, 06:49 PM
"Violence by the physically stronger person in a relationship isn't justifiable Jack."

So you are saying Rebecca hitting me was OK because she was physically smaller? Frankly, that sounds like rote from somewhere, not any kind of real experience.

I thought it was kinda funny. It was just a punch in the shoulder, a rather good one, which knocked me off my balance and onto the floor. I didn't let her, a sorta staunch feminist, live it down. It was the only violence which passed between us in fourteen years.

I'm all for protecting the weak from the strong. But there's a lot going on here and we need to find different images of it.

Duncan Gibbs
06-27-2008, 06:56 PM
I see.... Thread drift! :rolleyes:

Duncan Gibbs
06-27-2008, 07:01 PM
You been doing yoga Mark?

No he's got Marla floating again! Anyhoo! I don't think he's ever been as bad as some like to make out he has!

Read the links?

Mrleft8
06-27-2008, 07:24 PM
"Lame".... Hmpfft!
Do you really care if someone thinks you're being lame? You know if you are or not.... I personally have to admit that I kinda like the lack of thrashing and pouncing....:D

Rigadog
06-27-2008, 10:10 PM
The ghost of Tylerdurden
Walked across my Lawn
A shadow of his formerself
Twas in the early dawn

The fight had all gone out of him
I hear the ladies cry
As a one-time brave crusader
Goes slowly walking by

His pockets are all now empty
Of bombs and hand grenades
Most days he's writing poetry
Lounging in the shade

He's bent his sword to ploughshare
And learned to play the flute
But we all know that he's doing this
So the girls will think he's cute

But I know someday he'll blow a fuse
When he hears of some injustice
He'll return in all his glory
And with his words he'll bust us

Tylerdurden
06-29-2008, 05:45 AM
Thanks Rig! Nice poem. I still have all the fight left in me so don't worry.;)

Duncan Gibbs
06-29-2008, 06:00 AM
Hey Mark! Howzit goin? Didja read Walter?

PeterSibley
06-29-2008, 07:14 AM
Good one Mark ...now I can read right through one of your posts !

Tylerdurden
06-29-2008, 08:34 AM
Hey Mark! If someone else knows about the 'Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars' thang, it would have to have been you mate! I found out about it from the album title of a Melbourne electronica/techno act called Black Lung (hard listening but excellent music).

It's interesting to read Michael talk about people needing to wake up.

I wonder if anyone here has read the work of Walter Benjamin? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Benjamin) The main concepts he wrote about where things like "collective mass dreaming, aesthetics/anaesthetics" and the endless reproduction of novelty. His most famous writing is an essay called The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction. (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm)

How true his theories have turned out to be.

Heavy stuff Duncan. I have to spend some time with this.

Duncan Gibbs
06-29-2008, 08:37 AM
Heavy stuff Duncan. I have to spend some time with this.

It's at least 10 tonnes... Every gram worth it though! ;)

And it's good night from the Tweed. :)

Tylerdurden
06-29-2008, 08:43 AM
It's at least 10 tonnes... Every gram worth it though! ;)

And it's good night from the Tweed. :)

Gnight Dunc.

Duncan Gibbs
06-30-2008, 06:41 PM
Bump! Didja read it Mark?

Tylerdurden
06-30-2008, 06:52 PM
Its on my short list, I was busy with blue water survival school this weekend:D

Duncan Gibbs
07-04-2008, 12:39 AM
Bump! As the frog said "Readit?"