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cs
06-26-2008, 07:57 AM
Egads, just can't seem to get motivated to fix the building sections/porch sections.

I gave the other CAD guy the intent of what I wanted with the building section/Elevations and I continued to work on the structural drawings. And of course he mis-understood my intentions and being as I know excatly what I want to do with the building (and I can't stand the way he draws), I will just fix it myself.

Only problem is motavation. It is always the first line that is the hardest to draw. Once that first line is down the rest come easy.

Chad

cs
06-26-2008, 08:53 AM
Bad thing about it is, I now have to go apologize to him because he knew what I wanted better than I did.

My vision got crossed up with what we showed the owner and what I wanted. So I have to go back and re-adjust my vision to what we showed the owner.

Sometimes rendereings can get you in more trouble than they are worth.

Chad

mmd
06-26-2008, 09:03 AM
I hate checking my draftsmen's drawings. Not that they don't do good work, but that on one hand I am way too fussy about proper formatting, drawing standards, etc., and on the other hand I seem to spend as much time marking up the drawings for them to correct as I would spend doing the corrections myself.

And I try not to get too cranky when they make the same mistakes over and over...

cs
06-26-2008, 09:12 AM
I'm kinda crazy/phsyco when it comes to drawing and formatting. It may look okay on the final print, but man it really rubs me raw when nothing is drawn on the correct layer or with the correct color or bylayer or off 1/16", stuff like that drive me insane. I mean who in their right mind would put the top of steel at 15'-2 9/16"?

Chad

Paul Girouard
06-26-2008, 09:19 AM
I mean who in their right mind would put the top of steel at 15'-2 9/16"?



What would you call it 1/2" "plus" :rolleyes: :D

I'd guess the "reason" would be working the drawing to with in a 1/16 th of a inch would result in a 9/16th , 11/16th , 13 /16th type numbers.

Or the old +/ - Verf. on site "numbers".

cs
06-26-2008, 09:24 AM
See what I would do is make the top of steel exactly 15'-2 1/2" at least on the drawing. Of course in the field God only knows what the final top of steel would be, those guys never follow the drawings anyway, but at least on paper it would look good.

It drives me crazy when folks draw stuff in at that 1/16" crap and than force the dimensions to read to the correct measurement. Just a pet peeve.

Chad

cs
06-26-2008, 09:26 AM
Oh and another thing, if you really want to drive me crazy, draw a building with an overall dimensiion that comes out in even inches but when you add up the total of the interior dimensions (as measured in AutoCAD) you pick up or lose a 1/16 of an inch. I have been known to spend half a day finding and correcting that problem.

Chad

J P
06-26-2008, 11:12 AM
I hear ya, I'm picky about drawing accuracy and formating too. Did you hand draft prior to CAD?



Oh and another thing, if you really want to drive me crazy, draw a building with an overall dimensiion that comes out in even inches but when you add up the total of the interior dimensions (as measured in AutoCAD) you pick up or lose a 1/16 of an inch.

Is that because there's a 1/16" error, or AutoCAD rounding to the dim. units? The guys in our shop love busting my drawings for that kind of thing. And that's OK as long as they don't spend a half a day looking for it. ;)

Recently one of the guys has started doing some CAD work and had a drawing that develpoed the geometry for a timber valley rafter. He had a 1/16" error that he couldn't track down and had spent a half day looking for it. In a way I was glad to see he was obsessed with the error. I saw it as an indication that he'll be a good CAD guy, striving for perfect drawings, even though we don't work with 'perfect' materials. I think with good skills and habits it's just as easy to draw accurately, and in the long run saves time. But there are times where you've got to do a reality check and just move on. We talked, and it was a valuable, if not expensive :eek:, lesson.

However, if it was my drawing I would have taken the time to hunt the error down. But I write the checks and don't always get to punch out at 4:30 :D :(.

cs
06-26-2008, 11:39 AM
Yes as newbie to the drafting world I spent my first five years as a structural steel draftsman. I woke up one day and saw the light and went to a local community college to learn CAD and here I am.

I've seen error like a 1/16" creep in from AutoCad rounding (i.e. setting your precission not fine enoug) to people just "moving" objects around till the "look right".

When my job was just drafting I used to take the raw product from the boss (floor plan X-ref) and spend a day just fixing issues where walls would be in something less than an inch. He work in the conceptional as an Architect. He would just move the walls and doors and windows etc. around until it had the proper look. I would than move them around to where they were even inches (no fractions of an inch).

I would do this prior to starting the actual drawing process and attaching the floor plan as an external reference to all of my other sheets. This would generally take about a day to get this corrected, but saves time on the other end when you go in a pull a dimension across the plan and it reads 1/16" and you than have to go in and fix the problem or force the dimension to read correctly.

But of course you will say why don't sit your dimension precision to an inch. I will tell you that if you do that pretty soon those 1/16" indiscretions will add up to be an inch one way or the other and than your dimensions are wrong.

Chad

J P
06-26-2008, 12:22 PM
I think folks with some hand drafting experience tend to produce better looking CAD drawings. There are exceptions of course.

I worked with, and learned CAD from an architect who was really proficient with AutoCad. v11 then. He would do his loose concept work by hand but when it came time to get the drawings started in CAD he insisted on accuracy and consistant formating standards. I thank him for driving that into my head. He had a clever sort of way of shaming us into doing better work as we learned.


But of course you will say why don't sit your dimension precision to an inch.

I wouldn't. I find that by setting the precision to a higher (smaller) value I can often pick up where an odd dimension is. Then I'll tweak as needed and set the precision back to whatever.

cs
06-26-2008, 12:55 PM
I've always thought that if you learned to draw by hand and did some real hand drafting that you had a better understanding of how something goes together.

In todays world it is way too easy to copy and paste different parts of building together to create a final product, and every new release of AutoCAD it gets easier and easier, but than you start to lose things if you aren't careful.

That is the boat I find myself in with this paticular project. We have copied and cloned their other branch (we built) but this one is bigger and grander but still matches before. But as you know when bigger and grander structures have to change. I've been trying to wade through what is still good and not so good and create the new deal.

Chad

Tom Robb
06-26-2008, 02:16 PM
If you want to be that anal, you might look into spelling errors too as long as we're going on and on about 1/16" on a BUILDING for pete's sake.

cs
06-26-2008, 02:24 PM
Trust me, I spell nothing wrong on the drawings.

And really it is not being anal, it is being right. You want to show accurate dimensions on a drawing with the understanding it isn't going to be that accurate in the field. For the drawings though you want to make is clear, simple and easy to understand. If you start throwing fractions in there the guys in the field will spend more time scratching there heads trying to figure it out rahter than actually doing it.

Kinda goes along with make sure that all of your dimensions go to the same side of each and every wall. As soon as you dimension one wall on the right side while the rest are on the left, I can gurantee that one wall is out of place by the thickness of the wall. It will happen every time.

May not sound like much but if you have to get the cash safe in that spot, that may be the differnece between fitting and not fitting.

And also like I mention if you don't check these and get them correct than they cumalitive error can round up to the next higher or lower inch.

Chad

J P
06-26-2008, 02:32 PM
If you want to be that anal, you might look into spelling errors too as long as we're going on and on about 1/16" on a BUILDING for pete's sake.

What, you don't understand what "develpoed" means? :D:p

You're right though, a 1/16" is pretty earelephant in the field.

cs
06-26-2008, 02:39 PM
Even a an inch or two is usually not a problem that can't be worked around. I've seen exterior walls laid out on the wrong side of the lines off the batter board. Biggest difference was the client got a building that was just a little wider by a few inches than what he expected.

But the main point is to make is simple. If they guys don't ever have to add a dimension or deal with fractions, than I've done my job.

Trust me, it is important to put enough dimensions on a drawing to ensure that they don't have to add them up to get there. Less chance of a mistake that way.

Chad

cs
06-26-2008, 02:44 PM
And another thing what is so hard about keeping everything in the correct Z cordianate? GRRR!!!

Chad

cs
06-26-2008, 02:48 PM
And why oh why draw a line and end it and than start the next line at the end point of the first line and continue that line on?

Chad

Paul Pless
06-26-2008, 02:52 PM
Trust me, I spell nothing wrong on the drawings. Ohhh... I see how it is! You give your business associates and clients a greater standard of work than you subject your comrades to here at the WBF.;):D:p




I do too, usually.:D

LeeG
06-26-2008, 02:55 PM
hope this helps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDU-ZyBQRnQ&feature=related

J P
06-26-2008, 03:15 PM
And another thing what is so hard about keeping everything in the correct Z cordianate? GRRR!!!

Chad

Working in 3d? If not, "flatten.lsp" is your friend.

cs
06-26-2008, 03:24 PM
Nice thought.


Warning: FLATTEN is not for flattening the custom objects created by applications such as Autodesk's Architectural Desktop. ADT and similar programs create "application-defined objects" that only the application really knows what to do with. FLATTEN has no idea how to handle application-defined objects, so it leaves them alone.

But maybe it will work on the none ADT objects. Usually when I find the problem I just select all and use properties to change the start and end Z to 0.

What drives you crazy is when you are trying to snap or hatch and than that Z will kill you.

Chad