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Paul Pless
06-19-2008, 02:53 PM
Change out of that Islamic Head Scarf! That is if'n you want sit behind Obama at a campaign rally.


Muslim Women Wearing Head Scarves Refused Seats Behind Obama

The AP (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080618/ap_on_el_pr/obama_muslims;_ylt=Ag38NtvO6fa7Z1o9QGHqj.pp24cA) reports, "A young Muslim woman said she and another woman were refused seats directly behind Barack Obama -- and in front of TV cameras -- at a Detroit rally because they wear head scarfs." Hebba Aref "said Wednesday that she and Shimaa Abdelfadeel were among 20,000 supporters who gathered to see the Democratic presidential hopeful on Monday at the Joe Louis Arena when the groups they were with were separately invited by Obama campaign volunteers to sit behind the podium. But Aref said the volunteers told members of both parties in separate discussions that women wearing hijabs, the traditional Muslim head scarves, weren't included in the invitation and couldn't sit behind the podium."

Tanbark Spanker
06-19-2008, 02:56 PM
I wonder what Friends OF Islam are thinking now.

jbelow
06-19-2008, 02:57 PM
Dose that make Obama a bigot ?

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 02:59 PM
Were they Republic Party plants?

botebum
06-19-2008, 02:59 PM
Never would have heard about it if it was McSame. They'd be in Gitmo by now.

Doug

Gary E
06-19-2008, 02:59 PM
Wait till a raghead wins and tosses out the "others"
They are the fastest growing religion in the world last I heard.

Tanbark Spanker
06-19-2008, 03:02 PM
No, but I was assulted by the FOI in my work place.

jbelow
06-19-2008, 03:03 PM
Were they Republic Party plants?

No , just the average Democrat.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 03:03 PM
Obama's advisors need to ignore the Moran Repugnican sleaze-ball rumor-mongers and mud-throwers. There is no need to go to this extreme in an attempt to discourage the dirty-tricksters. They need to seat those women from now on and HBO simply needs to call out the bigots - by name - when they attempt to spread slime. Starting with JSM.

Tanbark Spanker
06-19-2008, 03:16 PM
Damned near shot a couple of 'em.

jbelow
06-19-2008, 03:16 PM
It was a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. If the women had sat behind him, some smear-merchant or 527 group would have a captured video frame all over the internet, suggesting Obama-terrorist ties, simply because a couple of Muslim women were in view of the camera.

It doesn't take much more than that; consider, for example, a simple 'dap' (fist bump) described by a Fox News bunny as 'a terrorist fist jab', or the buttons sold at a recent GOP event saying something like, 'If Obama wins, can we still call it the White House?'. These scumbags will take EVERY possible opportunity to do their dirty work.

If I had been the staffer, I would have explained to the women that although there was not the slightest reason the shouldn't have sat behind Obama, in view of the cameras, that it would help the candidate more if they didn't, so as to avert the smear merchants from using their images in an attempt to hurt the candidate. If they insisted, I would have left it alone.

Norm , you and Tom need to lay off drinking the tanbark.

Gary E
06-19-2008, 03:17 PM
If they insisted, I would have left it alone.

and would you still have job? cuz you'd probly be FIRED

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 03:18 PM
...consider, for example, a simple 'dap' (fist bump) described by a Fox News bunny as 'a terrorist fist jab', or the buttons sold at a recent GOP event saying something like, 'If Obama wins, can we still call it the White House?'. These scumbags will take EVERY possible opportunity to do their dirty work.
It is inevitable. Best for the Obama campaign to take the high road and call out for the McCain campaign to condemn these acts EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY OCCUR. Make it perfectly clear to the American public what is going on and by whom. In my opinion, the American public - for the most part - is completely fed up with this kind of trash and are ready and willing to exact justice in November. All it takes is for someone to start naming names.

Dan McCosh
06-19-2008, 03:24 PM
The RW talk shows have already announced their strategy is to paint Obama as a radical Muslim, including referring to him in these terms. McCain only has to go along for the ride. The strategy is supposed to be more effective than attacking him based on his race.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 03:25 PM
Norm , you and Tom need to lay off drinking the tanbark.Hey Spanky! What do you think of this?

...the buttons sold at a recent GOP event saying something like, 'If Obama wins, can we still call it the White House?'.
Is that acceptable in Vidor, Texas? Do you vote for folks who express such opinions?

Tanbark Spanker
06-19-2008, 03:28 PM
They called me a 'White Devil.'

Gary E
06-19-2008, 03:29 PM
whutz your problem ??? are the CLOTH HEADS???
wooseee

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 03:30 PM
The RW talk shows have already announced their strategy is to paint Obama as a radical Muslim, including referring to him in these terms. McCain only has to go along for the ride. The strategy is supposed to be more effective than attacking him based on his race.And the right-wingnuts don't even understand the utter imbecility of spreading such a lie while SIMULTANEOUSLY attacking Obama for not resigning from Rev. Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ fifteen years ago! ROTFLMAO!

I guess they figure the ditto-heads aren't bright enough to recognize the illogic.

jbelow
06-19-2008, 03:36 PM
Well, the good news is that Obama has indicated that is precisely what they'll do; the 'swiftboating' of John Kerry has taught a valuable lesson in that you can't let the scumbags get away with it, and you can't let the opponent sit back with a sh!t-eating grin on his face while they try.

Incidentally, did some sub-human here in the bilge actually use the expletive 'raghead'?

The radical muslim Obama must be sub-human to treat his raghead
women that way!

Gary E
06-19-2008, 03:37 PM
Awe...Norm takes hiz ball and goes home...

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 03:37 PM
...the buttons sold at a recent GOP event saying something like, 'If Obama wins, can we still call it the White House?'.
Is that acceptable in Vidor, Texas? Do you vote for folks who express such opinions?

Answer the question, Spanky.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 03:41 PM
It appears that Norman considers you to be a bigot, Gary.

I'll bet you vote Republican. Am I correct?

Tanbark Spanker
06-19-2008, 03:46 PM
I considered 'White Devil' to be a racial epithet and had them thrown out on their asses, Norm ...without ever firing a shot in anger.

Gary E
06-19-2008, 03:46 PM
What the he!! happened to the FREEDOM OF SPEACH
around here is it controlled by the likes of NORMAN ???

THAT's a fookin hoot...

jbelow
06-19-2008, 03:52 PM
Libturd Tom , there are very few Repulicans in my town of Vidor , Texas. My town and county are union driven yellow dog democraps.
Like you, they would not call the White House the White House if Obama wins.

LeeG
06-19-2008, 04:01 PM
this is a great election. Enough opportunities to reduce the issues to Bush talk caricatures.


McCain will have to work real hard to not drag the Republican Party down farther than GW sent it.

BrianW
06-19-2008, 04:08 PM
Ah the usual Bilge spin... Obama camp screws the pooch, and some folks here blame republicans.

Gotta love it. I guess we should of asked if the offending campaign buttons were really a democrat plot. :)

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 04:12 PM
...the buttons sold at a recent GOP event saying something like, 'If Obama wins, can we still call it the White House?'.
Is that acceptable in Vidor, Texas? Do you vote for folks who express such opinions?

...there are very few Repulicans in my town of Vidor , Texas.That answers the first question. You think here are not enough Republicans in Vidor, Texas for such a racist remark to be considered acceptable.

But you have yet to answer the second question. Do you vote for people who make such racist remarks?

Speak up, Spanky!

Paul Pless
06-19-2008, 04:13 PM
Ah the usual Bilge spin... Obama camp screws the pooch, and some folks here blame republicans.Great post Brian.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 04:17 PM
We've acknowledged that Obama screwed up. We also understand the reason for his mis-step.

Or are you denying that radical right-wingnuts are spreading rumors attempting to fool the public into believing that Obama is a closet Muslim and terrorist sympathizer?

glenallen
06-19-2008, 04:20 PM
What the he!! happened to the FREEDOM OF SPEACH
around here is it controlled by the likes of NORMAN ???

THAT's a fookin hoot...

Don't forget, along with your freedom of "SPEACH" you also have the freedom to be IGNORANT.
Looks like you enjoy both freedoms, you and jbelow.

BrianW
06-19-2008, 04:22 PM
Well, Brian, what do YOU think?

I couldn't care less about the buttons or the scarfs.

ljb5
06-19-2008, 04:23 PM
Lordy, Paul!

Do you really think this story is important, or did you just have an overwhelming urge to squeeze one off?

Sheesh. If they had sat next to Obama, you know perfectly damn well that your right-wing wackos would be screaming to the high heavens about it.

Remember when Rachael Ray wore a terrorist scarf to sell terrorist coffee and donuts?

http://www.necn.com/files/2008/05/28/vlcsnap-9986454.jpg

Look what you $hitheads have done to our country!

Is this really what you want our national discourse to be about?

You ought to be ashamed for trying to make an issue out of this crap.

John of Phoenix
06-19-2008, 04:24 PM
Libturd
:D :D I just crack up when the stan wannabes start the adolescent name calling bit. Takes me back to Junior High. :D
:D LMAO :D :D

jbelow
06-19-2008, 04:25 PM
Don't forget, along with your freedom of "SPEACH" you also have the freedom to be IGNORANT.
Looks like you enjoy both freedoms, you and jbelow.

glenallen , you old mullet !

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 04:25 PM
I couldn't care less about the buttons or the scarfs.Meaning you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution?

Really, Brian... decrying bigotry and dirty politics shouldn't compromise your political ideology.

McCain announced early on that he would not engage in gutter politics and the Rush Limbaughs of the world slammed him for it. And I would not care what the Rush Limbaughs of the world thought if the Vice President of the United States, the Secretary of State, the Press Secretary, and on and on were not occasional guests on his radio program. But they are. The fact is he is part of the Republican party apparatus despite the denials of some people on this forum.

BrianW
06-19-2008, 04:26 PM
:D :D I just crack up when the stan wannabes start the adolescent name calling bit. Takes me back to Junior High. :D
:D LMAO :D :D


You must get quite the chuckle out of terms like "Mcsame" and "Chimp."

BrianW
06-19-2008, 04:29 PM
Meaning you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution?

Really, Brian... decrying bigotry and dirty politics shouldn't compromise your political ideology.

Ahh... here come the personal attacks. Phase II of the usual routine here.

John of Phoenix
06-19-2008, 04:30 PM
I think McDubya is pretty good too. Politicians are fair game. Clintoon has taken lots of flack over the years.

But a personal insult to a forum member is just... remarkable.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 04:33 PM
Ahh... here come the personal attacks. Phase II of the usual routine here.In what way? How is it you have no problem with the buttons or the scarves?

BrianW
06-19-2008, 04:33 PM
Phase III

Righteous Indignation

"How could they do such a naughty thing? Our side would never do anything like that!"

Paul Pless
06-19-2008, 04:34 PM
Lordy, Paul!

Do you really think this story is important, or did you just have an overwhelming urge to squeeze one off?No, honestly I could care less. But, its been such an Obama lovefest around here lately I thought I'd inject a little balance.;)
Look what you $hitheads have done to our country!I kinda think your lumping me into a category that I don't really fit into.:mad:

seanz
06-19-2008, 04:34 PM
separately invited by Obama campaign volunteers to sit behind the podium

You want to be on stage?
You wear whatever costume they tell you to.


Does anybody know if this incident has been verified by a reality based organization?

And another thing.........What should we have been calling the White House for the last 7 years?

ljb5
06-19-2008, 04:34 PM
How come McCain doesn't appear with his muslim supporters?

John of Phoenix
06-19-2008, 04:36 PM
How come McCain doesn't appear with his muslim supporters?
Well, first ya gotta have one.

ljb5
06-19-2008, 04:36 PM
No, honestly I could care less. But, its been such an Obama lovefest around here lately I thought I'd inject a little balance.;)

Huh?

Tipping a boat for no good reason isn't "balance." It's kinda the opposite.

If you have a legitimate complaint, feel free to post it.

If this crap is the best you can come up with, you're not contributing anything.


I kinda think your lumping me into a category that I don't really fit into.:mad:

I calls it like I sees it. You crap on the forum, I'm going to call you out.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 04:37 PM
I don't believe I recall Tom ever using those terms... although I might be wrong about that.You are correct. I consistently refer to him as "Dubya."

Bob Smalser got snotty with me until I challenged him to find any post in which I had treated him with disrespect. He didn't apologize, but he discontinued the attitude with me. I wish people would try a little harder to distinguish one from another here in the Bilge.

BrianW
06-19-2008, 04:38 PM
In what way? How is it you have no problem with the buttons or the scarves?

Phase IV

After making an accusation about another person, badger them to defend themselves as if the original accusation had any merit to begin with.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 04:40 PM
Remember this one from this Spring?


Republicans in South Carolina: Negative campaigning is the norm in South Carolina, where the GOP primary regularly devolves into nasty bickering. 8 years after McCain's campaign was derailed by a whispering campaign about his "black child," the Arizona Senator is being hit again by a very ugly flier prepared by a group called "Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain." The group has also set up a website that details the allegations presented on the flier that McCain is exploiting his POW status and that he collaborated with his captors.

Democrats are not the only target of the radical right wing-nut smears.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 04:44 PM
I couldn't care less about the buttons or the scarfs.OK. I give up. What exactly did you mean by this?

BrianW
06-19-2008, 04:47 PM
Neither event will change my vote. Can't see how that would be hard to understand? Unless of course, one were wishing for a more negative reason.

seanz
06-19-2008, 04:49 PM
Phase III

Righteous Indignation

"How could they do such a naughty thing? Our side would never do anything like that!"

Set phaser to 'Broadbrush'

I would like it noted by the forum that I do not consider the honorable formites to my right to be sh!theads for their espoused political affiliations, if at all.

Nothing to see here.
Move along.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 04:51 PM
Brian, it won't change my presidential vote either considering that neither Obama nor McCain are directly involved in the smears.

But Obama and McCain are not the only folks up for election in November. I would sure as hell like to know if any Kentucky politicians are involved in financing and facilitating these smear campaigns. And if so, if they are running for political office. Wouldn't you like to know the same about the politicians up your way?

LeeG
06-19-2008, 04:52 PM
I can't wait to see what these guys come up with

http://www.freedomswatch.org/

BrianW
06-19-2008, 04:54 PM
They may change other's votes, however. Is that the way you'd like to win?

Oh good grief... :rolleyes:

ishmael
06-19-2008, 05:50 PM
There's a new bio of Obama out. I can't recall the title or the author, but a second tier national writer. In it he claims Obama was raised the first ten years or so as a Muslim.

To me, that in itself wouldn't be an issue. Yawn. If he were raised Muslim I think that could be an asset just now. But you can bet the country as a whole would feel differently, and if it's true you can bet the Obama campaign knows it wouldn't sit well.

This guy has challenged Obama to take him to court on defamation charges and let it the truth be known. I don't expect that any time soon.

ljb5
06-19-2008, 06:02 PM
This guy has challenged Obama to take him to court on defamation charges and let it the truth be known. I don't expect that any time soon.

Lying about a person's religion might do some political damage, but probably isn't really considered "defamation."

This quy would probably love to get the free publicity and book sales that would come with a court trial.

I suspect Obama has better things to do with his time.

seanz
06-19-2008, 06:10 PM
Not an issue?
Wait till the Republicans learn what apostate means.....

ljb5
06-19-2008, 07:22 PM
There's a new bio of Obama out. I can't recall the title or the author, but a second tier national writer.

The author's name is "Andy Martin." He's a well-known right-wing attack dog.

Check out what he had to say about Barack's 84 year-old grandmother. (http://mediamatters.org/items/200703290011)

You should also see what he said about the Jews and the Holocaust.

You're better than this, Jack.... or at least you could be if you tried. Don't give in to those creeps.

Just because they feed you slop doesn't mean you have to eat it!

jbelow
06-19-2008, 07:33 PM
Not an issue?
Wait till the Republicans learn what apostate means.....

seanz , I looked it up in Webster's dictionary . There was a picture of Obama because he abandon his church.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 07:34 PM
Which one? The Trinity United Church of Christ?

You need to educate yourself, brother: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp?print=y

If you want to be taken seriously you had better demonstrate more knowledge than we've seen to this point. So far It appears that the extent of your reading is email chain-letters.

ljb5
06-19-2008, 07:40 PM
seanz , I looked it up in Webster's dictionary . There was a picture of Obama because he abandon his church.

Kinda like when McCain changed his church?

Or didn't?

Or said he did, but didn't?

Milo Christensen
06-19-2008, 07:50 PM
Seanz: this is a well-reported little screw up in Detroit, the regional center for almost a million Muslims now living in suburbs ringing Detroit. Several young "Arab" men dressed nicely in suits and ties were asked by the 20 something Obamagasmic staffer if they wanted to sit on stage and to bring some friends. The friends were young women wearing the hijab or head scarf. One of the women is very bitter and is upset because she was attracted to Obama's message of unity and inclusion. The Obama campaign has apologized. The five Arab-Americans I talked to today after work are still pretty insulted and upset.

Dan McCosh
06-19-2008, 08:04 PM
FWIW, while the Detroit area is one of the largest Muslim centers in the US, it is unlikely they equal the number of Afro-Americans. There are about 200,000 or so Muslims in the area. One of the women in question was a student activist, the other is supposed to live in Bloomfield Hills. That would be interesting in itself, considering that for long time so few Democrats voted in Bloomfield Hills they couldn't get a presidential candidate on the ballot.

jbelow
06-19-2008, 08:07 PM
Which one? The Trinity United Church of Christ?

You need to educate yourself, brother: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp?print=y

If you want to be taken seriously you had better demonstrate more knowledge than we've seen to this point. So far It appears that the extent of your reading is email chain-letters.

Tom , educate yourself and look up the definition of apostate.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 08:10 PM
I know the definition. I was merely giving you an opportunity to back away from the untruth you are propagating. You are saying Obama was once a Muslim. You didn't bother following the link I provided, did you? It is a shame that the facts interfere with your opinion and prejudices.

Captain Blight
06-19-2008, 08:12 PM
At least this election we won't be hearing any blather from the mainstream media about "voter apathy." Pretty polarized, we are.

C. Ross
06-19-2008, 08:14 PM
Milo and Dan

Thanks for the local insights. That staffer will nevermore use the words "and bring some friends". Right call, but a painful faux pas.

This is a non-story except for two things.

First, Brian's absolutely brilliant Stage I, II, III thing.

Second, read this thread and then go read elf's long-running racism in politics thread. Sen. Obama has been struggling with "keeping it real" versus "getting elected" for quite some time.

seanz
06-19-2008, 08:17 PM
Milo I did a little checking and yep it looks like a legit story, looks like a bit of poor communication plus being too worried about the 'Islam issue' to think straight.Yes an apology has been issued.
Not that this will matter much......Hell has no fury like a scorned student activist.
:D



Seanz: this is a well-reported little screw up in Detroit, the regional center for almost a million Muslims now living in suburbs ringing Detroit. Several young "Arab" men dressed nicely in suits and ties were asked by the 20 something Obamagasmic staffer if they wanted to sit on stage and to bring some friends. The friends were young women wearing the hijab or head scarf. One of the women is very bitter and is upset because she was attracted to Obama's message of unity and inclusion. The Obama campaign has apologized. The five Arab-Americans I talked to today after work are still pretty insulted and upset.

What on earth did you say to them?
:D:D

Just couldn't let that pass, it was too good.....
:)

Captain Blight
06-19-2008, 08:20 PM
I totally don't get why the Right is making an issue of Obama's Muslim heritage. Either we do have freedom of religion in this country, or we don't. If we do, then quit talking about it. If we don't, then reveal yourselves as what you are--Christian Dominionist theocrats-- and quit calling yourselves Americans.

glenallen
06-19-2008, 08:23 PM
Tom , educate yourself and look up the definition of apostate.

Yeah, Tom, educate yourself so you can talk intelligently to the Vidor Flash.:D

jbelow, please tell me how long you've held your political views and what/who inspired you in this direction. I'm writing a book about racism and fundamentalism in Texas.
So far, I've got 233,000 pages and I've barely begun.:D

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 08:23 PM
I totally don't get why the Right is making an issue of Obama's Muslim heritage.The right-wingnuts are hoping people's fears and prejudices will blind them to reason and truth. It betrays a fundamental contempt for the public.

Muslim > middle eastern > terrorist

Don't you know he is best friends with a Chicago-area terrorist?

And his middle name is Hussein!

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Dan McCosh
06-19-2008, 08:26 PM
Old story about politics. Meeting in a back room the party strategist says about the opponent:

"I got it, lets announce he (has intercourse) with pigs."

"You can't say that, you know he doesn't do that."

"I know, but let's make him deny it."

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 08:30 PM
I heard that it was LBJ in one of his early campaigns.

LBJ: Let's have our sources put it out there that our opponent f***s pigs.

Advisor: But it is not true!

LJB: I know isn't. But lets make the son-of-a-bitch deny it.

Dan McCosh
06-19-2008, 08:31 PM
I heard it was LBJ who said that:

LBJ: Let's have our sources put it out there that he f***s pigs.

Advisor: But it is not true!

LJB: I know isn't. But lets make the son-of-a-bitch deny it.


I was trying to clean it up.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 08:33 PM
LBJ was... uh... colorful.

seanz
06-19-2008, 08:33 PM
"I got it, lets announce he (has intercourse) with pigs."

"You can't say that, you know he doesn't do that."

"I know, but let's make him deny it."

One of my favourites.......I think it gets attributed to Johnson (LBJ) but it may be just an oldie but a goodie.

I see my post was unnecessary...............this time.

glenallen
06-19-2008, 08:37 PM
GW messes with pigs and he got elected, twice.
Funny aside to that quirk of his. Any pig farmer in Texas will laugh his ass off and tell you that George always picks the Ugliest pig.

Bob Smalser
06-19-2008, 08:41 PM
http://bobmccarty.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/obama-change.jpg

And the only national 527 ads to date have been the MoveOn.org's Baby Alexander attack against McCain. Which seemed particularly stupid to me, since it also points to an Obama weakness.

ishmael
06-19-2008, 08:51 PM
My favorite campaign hijinks happened during the '68 election and was aimed at Nixon. Some Dem hired a group of very pregnant black women to go to Nixon rallies and parade around with signs repeating a Nixon slogan: Nixon's the One! I don't know how many times it happened, but people had a sense of humor.:)

Re Obama's Muslim connection, I also read an interview with his half brother, a Kenyan, who corroborated that Obama spent his first years in the mosque not the church. Who knows? I really could care less. The campaign does seem a bit touchy about it.

Tom Montgomery
06-19-2008, 09:13 PM
I've got news for you. Not every child enrolled in Catholic school is a Catholic. :eek:

There are actually Protestant families who enroll their children in Catholic schools because they feel their children receive a superior education there.

Obama spent his early grade school years in Indonesia: a predominately Muslim country. He was educated in both Muslim and Catholic schools while living there. At the age of 10 he moved in with his maternal grandparents in Honolulu, Hawaii and attended Punahou School from the fifth grade in 1971 until his graduation from high school in 1979.

Following high school, Obama moved to Los Angeles, where he studied at Occidental College for two years. He then transferred to Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations. Obama graduated with a B.A. from Columbia in 1983, then worked at Business International Corporation and New York Public Interest Research Group.

After four years in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988 as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale) on Chicago's far South Side. During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization in Altgeld Gardens. Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute. In summer 1988, he traveled for the first time to Europe for three weeks then Kenya for five weeks where he met many of his Kenyan relatives for the first time.

Obama entered Harvard Law School in fall 1988 and at the end of his first year was selected as an editor of the law review based on his grades and a writing competition. In his second year he was elected president of the law review, a full-time volunteer position functioning as editor-in-chief and supervising the law review's staff of 80 editors. Obama's election in February 1990 as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review was widely reported and followed by several long, detailed profiles. He graduated with a J.D. magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991 and returned to Chicago where he had worked as a summer associate at the law firms of Sidley & Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990.

The publicity from his election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review led to a contract and advance to write a book about race relations. In an effort to recruit him to their faculty, the University of Chicago Law School provided Obama with a fellowship and an office to work on his book. He originally planned to finish the book in one year, but it took much longer as the book evolved into a personal memoir, at one point Obama retreated to Bali for several months with his wife, Michelle, to work on it without interruptions, before it was finally published as Dreams From My Father in the summer of 1995.

It's quite a book. Ya'll should read it. Among other things he discusses his Christian faith.

jbelow
06-19-2008, 09:21 PM
Yeah, Tom, educate yourself so you can talk intelligently to the Vidor Flash.:D

jbelow, please tell me how long you've held your political views and what/who inspired you in this direction. I'm writing a book about racism and fundamentalism in Texas.
So far, I've got 233,000 pages and I've barely begun.:D

I've held my political views since the days of Jimmy Carter (he sucked) I even voted for the bastage . The late great Ronald Reagan ,
American history , bible study , personal experiance , and the observation of the life style of modern society has inspired me in my political direction.

Your book on racism and fundamentalism in Texas will be based on the carry over of ignorance from the old Democrat south. These people are easy to spot because they are proud of their beliefs. The others are harder to find because they are elitist that mostly live in urban areas and often walk the halls of universities. They are condesending and try to educate the masses in modern secular
beliefs. What they gain in education they lose in wisdom. They are no less bigoted and tolerant than the uneducated masses just more subversive.

glenallen
06-19-2008, 09:43 PM
Thanks for being candid, jbelow!
I may give you two whole chapters.:D
Peace, Brother!

LeeG
06-19-2008, 09:44 PM
for those without TV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsueXFniP2E

Captain Blight
06-19-2008, 10:40 PM
... they are elitist that mostly live in urban areas and often walk the halls of universities. They are condesending and try to educate the masses in modern secular
beliefs. What they gain in education they lose in wisdom. They are no less bigoted and tolerant than the uneducated masses just more subversive.
This is something I keep having to remind my more liberal friends of: that there is a deep distrust of the urban educated in (for lack of a better term) Heartland America. That it doesn't do our political cause any good to mock the Southerner, no matter how richly he may deserve it, not to try to use fancy arguments to try to convince people that the Left is not the bunch of God-hating babykillers that some media pundits would have us believe. George Bush was selected, I think, in response to Slick Willie's very urbanity. Bill Clinton-- when he said something, there were a lot of people who were left asking, "Now what did he mean by that?"

But Ol' George! Now there was a fella you could have a beer with, talk turkey about them folks over there with all the oil and whatnot, and when you got done talking about that, you'd know for sure where he stood.

I really don't know where I stand on the issue. I think it says a lot about the state of the nation that the most moralistic, stern tone comes from the South and the rural areas. It is certainly telling that the reddest of red states tail the nation in literacy rankings, and the bluest of blue states lead.

Keith Wilson
06-19-2008, 11:03 PM
Not "the masses" any more. Some information for jbelow:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/996F3486-9ADE-4995-96B8-EAF13FE3E9E3/0/edit.gif

http://www.dallasfed.org/fed/annual/2004/images/exhibit4.gif

glenallen
06-19-2008, 11:15 PM
Captain, harken back to the halcyon days of Spiro Agnew.
Remember him?
"Effite corps of impudent snobs" is the way he described educated people who opposed him and Nixon. The arrogant sonofabitch!
He was the first vice president to resign in the face of criminal charges.
Little Bush is the last of the spawn from that era.
"I really don't know where I stand on the issue."
Yes you do!

Captain Blight
06-19-2008, 11:39 PM
I was like 5 then. So, no I don't. I do remember 12 years of Grandpa Caligula and his bastard stepson George I lying, cheating, stealing and setting things up so the rich would always get richer and the poor would always be f*cked. Every time I hear somebody touting Reagan, I honestly want to slap them.

jbelow
06-20-2008, 12:11 AM
Not "the masses" any more. Some information for jbelow:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/996F3486-9ADE-4995-96B8-EAF13FE3E9E3/0/edit.gif

http://www.dallasfed.org/fed/annual/2004/images/exhibit4.gif

Keith , I do not disagree with your charts but they do not provide enough detail info. They leave out suburb and simi - rural. They also leave out formal education in technical vocation fields. I have 2yrs of college and 4.5yrs. in technical vocation fields in electronics , machine tools , and welding that require courses in math , science , physics , writing , speech , metalergy , and ect in order to graduate. Your charts also leave out trade schools.

jbelow
06-20-2008, 12:46 AM
This is something I keep having to remind my more liberal friends of: that there is a deep distrust of the urban educated in (for lack of a better term) Heartland America. That it doesn't do our political cause any good to mock the Southerner, no matter how richly he may deserve it, not to try to use fancy arguments to try to convince people that the Left is not the bunch of God-hating babykillers that some media pundits would have us believe. George Bush was selected, I think, in response to Slick Willie's very urbanity. Bill Clinton-- when he said something, there were a lot of people who were left asking, "Now what did he mean by that?"

But Ol' George! Now there was a fella you could have a beer with, talk turkey about them folks over there with all the oil and whatnot, and when you got done talking about that, you'd know for sure where he stood.

I really don't know where I stand on the issue. I think it says a lot about the state of the nation that the most moralistic, stern tone comes from the South and the rural areas. It is certainly telling that the reddest of red states tail the nation in literacy rankings, and the bluest of blue states lead.

Captain Blight , are you sure your liberal in your political beliefs ?
I guess it would depend on what we describe as liberal and conservative. What are your thoughts on this ?
According to the charts that Keith posted , the masses are educated.
That tells me that ignorance and a college education has no ties. One can have a college education and also be ignorant.

Captain Blight
06-20-2008, 01:30 AM
Captain Blight , are you sure your liberal in your political beliefs ?
I guess it would depend on what we describe as liberal and conservative. What are your thoughts on this ?


I'm not sure of very much. On a lot of issues, I'm more of a Goldwater Republican--which shows you how far to the right the center has moved. I guess I'm something of a fiscal conservative, but I'm also a social liberal. I favor a no-loophole flat tax on income. I'm in favor of cutting back military spending (primarily by cancelling the Halliburton and Blackwater contracts) and putting a lot of that money back into funding drug rehab programs and I would be remiss in saying that the more money the VA gets for squaring away traumatized vets NOW, the less it'll cost later. I'd like to see the Current Occupant be impeached for being a f@<kin' d1ckh3ad or better yet. have his assets seized to pay for this quagmire he and Rummy got us into.

I'm not anti-military, and I'm certainly not anti-soldier. I do think that we have a perfectly good diplomatic corps that are not being used to their full efficacy in the Middle East-- and I think that some of that diplomacy is going to end up having to be done by the busboy with a silenced .22 in a Lebanese restaurant (let's just say). I think that the first duty of elected officials is to secure the safety of their constituents and the ground they stand on, and the way to do that is by getting the kind of intelligence you only get with men on the ground, and then acting on that information without fear of whether it will play in Peoria.

I know that bounty is better than poverty, peace is better than war, and that there is not really any such thing as "an average American." I'm an atheist who recognizes the right of people to worship as they choose but not their right to impose religious-based law on me, to include so-called 'Community standards."


I believe that if you got the Framers of the Constitution on that new Airbus that'll reach halfway around the world; gave them each a laptop computer and a brief tutorial on the Internet; and then let them know that we're still running the country according to the rules they reluctantly, finally, signed their names to in 1789, they would look at you aghast and ask you if you were out of your rabbit-assed mind.

The time has come, I think, to begin to think seriously about a new Constitutional Congress. The American Political Experiment has shone brightly for 219 years, and it still shines brightly today. But it's time for an overhaul.

The first thing we do, we kill all the lawyers (Shakespeare).

Other than that, term limits, salary caps, and figuring out how to get the media to start acting like civilized human beings would be a great start.


Whoooo. I'm spent.

bamamick
06-20-2008, 01:48 AM
I think that this is going to get ugly. Because the projections are close I think that Mr. Obama is going to have to risk alienating some of the people who have supported him from the beginning by either catering or being seen as catering to the one group who has been solidly against him: white, middle-class men. He wants to get elected. If he really wants to get elected he has to play the game of promising everything to everyone, and by doing that he is going to begin to show some very real chinks in his armor.

In the end, if Mr. Obama gets elected it'll be because he has no real history of service, no real time spent in the limelight, and because his opponent is too old to be president and a member of the party that has taken this country back to where we were in the 1960's. It's not Mr. Bush's or the Republican party's fault that 9/11 happened, but it is their fault that the 'plan' seemed to have run out about a year after we began sending soldiers to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now Mr. McCain will pay the price for that, in all probability. Let's hope that we all don't continue paying that price.

We NEED change. Real change. But I think that in the case of Mr.Obama that change is really nothing more than a hollow war cry with nothing to back it up. Hopefully he will have some solid advisors along for the ride and we can begin moving in a positive direction once again. One can always hope. Personally I am thinking seriously about making a push for Queen Elizabeth as a write-in candidate. We can always worry about that pesky Constitution thing later.

jmo

Mickey Lake

seanz
06-20-2008, 03:55 AM
Now see what I am talking about.... He is a Islamic/Muslim.. That dirty 'ol sh!t skinned, towel headed camel jockeyed bastard..

I'm outta here...........

It's just like someone threw up on the screen.

C. Ross
06-20-2008, 07:17 AM
Mickey-
Really good post, thanks. Right up to the Queen Elizabeth part <grin>. That would be real change.

huisjen
06-20-2008, 12:33 PM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/ElaineSupkis/clnfeb/Bush-kissing-Saudi-small.gif

I just thought I'd throw this in to ballance everything out.

LeeG
06-20-2008, 12:53 PM
We NEED change. Real change. But I think that in the case of Mr.Obama that change is really nothing more than a hollow war cry with nothing to back it up. Hopefully he will have some solid advisors along for the ride and we can begin moving in a positive direction once again. One can always hope. Personally I am thinking seriously about making a push for Queen Elizabeth as a write-in candidate. We can always worry about that pesky Constitution thing later.

jmo

Mickey Lake

it's the next generations chance,,,Obama represents them more than McCain and they're the ones who have been handed a heck of a bill.

elf
06-20-2008, 01:19 PM
Obama's nowhere near progressive enough for me. I'd like to hear him talking about building standards that provide for solar collectors on every reasonable roof, or solar shingles, or both, or personal turbines if more appropriate. I'd like to hear him talk about raising mandatory mileage standards to 65mpg within one year of election with a compensatory fuel cost rebate.penalty tied to ones auto/truck ownership and mileage records back as far as there are data. I'd like to hear him talking about eliminating tax deductions for every natural child beyond the second one. I'd like to hear him talking about eliminating the war on drugs within 2 months of election. I'd like to hear him talking about the cost of providing a minimum guaranteed livable income for every adult and the 1st two natural children (as well as all adopted and foster children) compared with the cost of the entire social services structure with an eye to eliminating the latter if it's more expensive than the former. I'd like to hear him talking about moving 90% of transportation of goods off road and onto good trains within two years of election. I'd like to hear him talking about nation wide mandatory recycling of disposables of all types.

And I'd really like to hear him talking about teaching critical thinking from nursery school to grade 16 throughout the nation's entire schooling system - public and private.

But for right now, I'm pretty happy that he personally called the muslim women, or at least one of them, and apologized for the behavior of his volunteer at the Detroit event, and that MoveOn has agreed to dismantle their 527 for this election cycle at his request.

Captain Blight
06-20-2008, 01:36 PM
Some good points, some other pointsThe mileage thing is entirely out of reach. 65 mpg cars on the market within a year of election? Never happen. You'd have to put an umbrella on a Vespa and call it 'close enough.' No tax credit for 3rd and other kids? "Sorry, Chad and Emily, but we're going to have to sell you for medical experimentation; the government won't let us afford to have you!" Mandatory recycling? Now, do you want the government to reach into your private life to that extent, really?

Rail is an okay step. Riverine is better. What are you going to do with all the our-of-work truckers?

Your heart's in the right place, probably: but it's statements like that that make the NeoCons believe that Liberals want a socialist welfare state.

Gary E
06-20-2008, 01:40 PM
I'd like to see anyone talk about cutting off WELFARE Queens from the heating assist the taxpayers give them.. Let them sell the 1/2 mil realestate they own and pay for their own heat.

Captain Blight
06-20-2008, 01:50 PM
I'd like to see anyone talk about cutting off WELFARE Queens from the heating assist the taxpayers give them.. Let them sell the 1/2 mil realestate they own and pay for their own heat.
Gary, you really should switch to decaff. If you know somebody is abusing the system, turn them in. If they need the help, then don 't begrudge them.

Keith Wilson
06-20-2008, 01:50 PM
. . . figuring out how to get the media to start acting like civilized human beings would be a great start.Indeed. However, it's capitalism in action - give the people what they want and they'll buy your product. When people stop watching crap, "the media" will stop producing it.

elf
06-20-2008, 01:51 PM
I never said people couldn't have more than two children, only that they could get tax deductions or public assistance only for the first 2.

Mandatory recycling? What's so hard about that? My town picks up everything except styro and plastic bags at the street already. But if I wish to compost I have to do it myself.

Out-of-work truckers work the short shifts from warehouse or port to train depots or learn to drive and maintain the railroad and loading equipment. Not that different, compared to the retraining many have to do now. 65mpg vehicles get phased in as it becomes more economical to purchase one than to pay the penalty in your adjusted gas price for continuing to drive what you've got. Just that we don't manufacture or import any more vehicles that get less than that.

elf
06-20-2008, 02:09 PM
Oh yes, I forgot. International firearm registration beginning with manufacturer (American only) or US purchase/importation, so sales can be traced from the beginning of manufacture, along with real time updating of broadband accessible database at moment of purchase, including criminal record search required for purchase. Immediate confiscation of all firearms without scribed registration numbers or with tampered numbers. Scribing and registration can be done at any police station for legacy firearms for free. Some limitations on purchase depending on nature of criminal record.

This applies to the military and police as well as the general populace.

Every gun scribed and registered and tracked.

ishmael
06-20-2008, 02:20 PM
A note. The issue of a gun in the scheme of things is important. Look at what happened in D.C. when a sniper firing out of his trunk stood the city on its head.

"There are parts of New York I wouldn't advise you invade."

Rick to Major Strasser.

Obviously, with overwhelming force, an army can take any bit of ground. Keeping it is another matter if the populous is armed and wanting to fight back.

Captain Blight
06-20-2008, 04:14 PM
Oh yes, I forgot. International firearm registration beginning with manufacturer (American only) or US purchase/importation, so sales can be traced from the beginning of manufacture, along with real time updating of broadband accessible database at moment of purchase, including criminal record search required for purchase. Immediate confiscation of all firearms without scribed registration numbers or with tampered numbers. Scribing and registration can be done at any police station for legacy firearms for free. Some limitations on purchase depending on nature of criminal record.

This applies to the military and police as well as the general populace.

Every gun scribed and registered and tracked.Every firearm sold in the US has to have a serial number. This information is made available to BATF. It is illegal to purchase or posess a firearm if you are a convicted felon.


Looks like your wish came true in 1968.