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Joe (SoCal)
06-17-2008, 10:00 AM
Phil and I went swimming off the Boat Club bulkhead during the Splash Party and had a blast. We jerry rigged a big boat ladder to get back up. It was a tippy solution but the benefit of cooling off in 68 F Hudson on a 95 F day was worth it. Also the wooden docks are easy enough to climb back up on and extend further out into the water, and can scrape or splinter you when you climb back on. Phil is working on a nice wooden ladder bolted onto the floating north dock that can be used as a swimming hole as well as some form of emergency egress should someone fall off the dock or their boat heading into their slip.

Then we started talking about really going for it and putting a nice swim platform a few yards out, securing it and adding another ladder. The idea is to be able to swim from the floating north dock out to the swim platform and lay out and use it as a swimming spot for the club.

Now here's what I'm asking you guys. Does anyone have plans or an idea of how to make a really cool one ? Also obviously the Hudson is tidal so we would have to moor it some how.

Something like this maybe a bit bigger. I'm kinda fond of bolting down a couple of adirondack chairs, how cool would that be ;)

http://woodsgood.ca/images/SwimPlatform.jpg

Jim Ledger
06-17-2008, 10:05 AM
You could find a nice little catboat, cut it down and deck it over. Won't be tippy.:D

botebum
06-17-2008, 10:11 AM
Better check and make sure you are even allowed to do it, Joe. The COE can be pretty tough.

Doug

Joe (SoCal)
06-17-2008, 10:12 AM
Coe ???

Pete Dorr
06-17-2008, 10:15 AM
Joe

There are dock parts at http://www.overtons.com that you should look at. Even if you don't shop there you can see what they have. The most important item I think are the big angle brackets for the 4 corners. The platform will be small enough that lag bolting from the sides into the cross framing should be plenty strong. There are also different type of floats you can use. The black plastic air chambers work well and don't add much weight. Probably easiest to keep clean also. I think 12x12 should be about right.

Untreated cedar for the deck would be ideal.

If deep enough you can add a diving board.



I can send you photos of our neighborhood float if you like.

Gary E
06-17-2008, 10:15 AM
Lay 6 or 8 55gal drums together and build your float on top of them... Band the drums to the flaot.
Install the ladder... and tie an anchor on it...

You'l have it done in no time..

botebum
06-17-2008, 10:18 AM
Coe ???

Corps of Engineers, They control how you can use the Hudson, the ICW and many other impoundments.

Doug

mmd
06-17-2008, 10:18 AM
Joe, I might be able to help. PM your mailing address to me & next week I'll mail some plans I drew a few (like, maybe twenty?) years ago. A floating dock designed with a step at 2" above waterline for ease of getting out of the water or a kayak, and designed to freeze-in and rest on top of the ice for use as a place to sit and put your skates on...

Joe (SoCal)
06-17-2008, 10:19 AM
Pete send the photos I like your idea. The club has great experience building and maintaining all the floating docks at the club for the slips.
They are all mounted closer to shore with large poles sunk into the silt to secure them. This would be off the shelf and would be way deep enough to put a diving board on, but it would also req. mooring it.

Joe (SoCal)
06-17-2008, 10:20 AM
Joe, I might be able to help. PM your mailing address to me & next week I'll mail some plans I drew a few (like, maybe twenty?) years ago. A floating dock designed with a step at 2" above waterline for ease of getting out of the water or a kayak, and designed to freeze-in and rest on top of the ice for use as a place to sit and put your skates on...

Cool :D

Your the best, mmd. ;)

Dutch
06-17-2008, 10:26 AM
no offense but isnt that water like swimming in a cesspool?




To Ray Beecher of Coxsackie the Hudson River is like an old man haunted by a childhood of bare-fisted beatings. The Hudson, Beecher can tell you, has overcome its share of pain, dispensed by abusive factories, overflowing sewer pipes, noxious chemical spills and years of official indifference.
``We don't see the oil on the river anymore, like you used to,'' said Beecher, 81, squinting from his sloping front yard into the river's muddy expanse. ``I'd have to say it's gotten cleaner.''
The Hudson has, indeed, healed its deepest wounds. Gone are the rotting animal carcasses, flotillas of raw sewage and whorls of oil that, by the 1960s, had transformed the river into an open sewer.
The Hudson is now the cleanest and healthiest it's been in decades.
But the recovery is not over. In some ways, the Hudson is still an environmental mess. And PCBs are not the only culprit.
As it flows further into its post-recovery era and restakes a claim as an economic force and recreational resource, the Hudson must vanquish a battery of more insidious foes: industrial and agricultural wastes that have made the river and its tributaries some of the nation's most toxic; over-polluting sewage systems; and unregulated tons of urban runoff and leaking hazardous waste flowing through its watershed each year.
No one really knows how much pollution pervades the 13,300-square-mile Hudson River basin, the size of Massachusetts and Connecticut combined.
``If all this pollution continues to go on,'' said John Cronin, the official Hudson Riverkeeper, who is charged with protecting it, ``the Hudson River will die a death by a thousand cuts.'' Here are some multiple threats: Polychlorinated biphenyls. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency says PCBs probably cause cancer in people. The chemical has rendered 200 miles of the lower Hudson one of the largest Superfund toxic-waste sites in the nation. After eight years of study, the EPA is homing in on a historic, if controversial, decision whether to dredge the river to remove the chemicals (see graphic). Industry and agriculture. Scientists are only now becoming aware of how deeply heavy metals and pesticides are nested in the basin. A recent federal study found that each of 44 urban rivers and streams tested in the Hudson watershed contained cadmium, chromium, lead, nickel and zinc in levels that exceed state health standards for aquatic life. The report, published in April, also found traces of weed and bug killers in 39 of 46 waterways, including several in the Capital Region. Levels of DDT, a pesticide banned in the 1970s, exceeded state health standards in most city-bound streams. Legal pollution. Companies and municipalities pollute the Hudson on an elaborate honor system. But a Times Union investigation found that that system is routinely abused and that most violators are never punished. The Hudson's biggest violator of these pollution limits: government. Illegal and unregulated pollution. The largest and least-studied supply of pollutants to the Hudson River comes from what are known as ``non-point'' sources: leaking landfills, abandoned factories, overflowing storm sewers and contaminated runoff from farms, roads and parking lots. Added together, non-point sources account for about 95 percent of all pollution in the Hudson, experts say.

botebum
06-17-2008, 10:30 AM
Actually, Dutch, the Hudson has been improving in water quality every year for the past 20 or so years.

Doug

Dutch
06-17-2008, 10:33 AM
Its a friggin superfund site Doug- how clean can it be? Just because you dont see animal carcasses and turds floating by doesnt mean it cant hurt you.

Joe (SoCal)
06-17-2008, 10:34 AM
no offense but isn't that water like swimming in a cesspool?

No actually thanks to many national programs like the Federal Water Pollution Control Amendments of 1972, the Clean Water Act of 1977, and the Water Quality Act of 1987. Along with local environmental organization like River keepers and Pete Seger's Clearwater the Hudson is the cleanest its been in over 150 years.

Its also actually a Tidal Estuary up by me and therefore is somewhat self cleaning.

botebum
06-17-2008, 10:35 AM
I'm talking about water quality, as in PCB and mercury levels, fish consumption, etc.

Doug

Dutch
06-17-2008, 10:37 AM
Do you have references? How many fish can you eat from there without getting cancer now?

botebum
06-17-2008, 10:42 AM
NYS Health Dept. Fish Consumption Advisory (http://www.health.state.ny.us/environmental/outdoors/fish/fish.htm)

Doug

Joe (SoCal)
06-17-2008, 10:43 AM
True the bottom probably still has some HEAVY metals but thank god they are not Floating metals that could be a problem ;)

JimM
06-17-2008, 10:45 AM
Joe
You will need to get a permit form the Corps of Engineers (COE) to put any float or dock into the water. You may also need permits form your state and local government. Find you what the rules are befor you build anything. On the Columbia River where I live, you can't build a float or Dock that doesn't have 40 or 50% light passage which means using a metal grate or plexiglass surface. I am sure your rules are different but find out what the corps. will permit and get the permits.

Joe (SoCal)
06-17-2008, 10:51 AM
Yea it may all end up a pipe dream. I can see lots of road blocks, the expense for the club, safety, kids, tide, permits, yadda yadda. But it is a nice idea to possibly explore, just looking and imagining one is a great idea but it may just remain that. :(

botebum
06-17-2008, 10:55 AM
If the club has an existing permitted mooring field then you may be golden. Just brainstorming.

Doug

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
06-17-2008, 10:59 AM
Yea it may all end up a pipe dream. I can see lots of road blocks, the expense for the club, safety, kids, tide, permits, yadda yadda. But it is a nice idea to possibly explore, just looking and imagining one is a great idea but it may just remain that. :(

Could it just be a very large mooring buoy? Might be polite to stick a solar powered white LED on it as an anchor light.

paladin
06-17-2008, 12:11 PM
an anchor with a trip line, no motor, put a couple of oars on it, and a small led powered light with a couple of d size flashlight batteries...it is a legal rowboat, non powered with anchor....light is an anchor light..

Canoez
06-17-2008, 12:21 PM
...and a couple of USCG approved life jackets for each of the "rowers". :D

SaltyD from BC
06-17-2008, 12:23 PM
First thing I'd do Joe is pull the club's permit or lease or whatever it is that allows them to have the existing structures on the river. You may just be able to do something with the lease that you have. Around here for instance the lease is just like a lot, surveyed with dimensions, but in the water. You can put whatever floats or warfs that you like within the "lot".

Failing that Chuck's got a good idea back there ^^.

Joe (SoCal)
06-17-2008, 12:25 PM
Well first thing is to present the idea to the BOD of the club and see if it sinks or swims.

paladin
06-17-2008, 12:37 PM
If'n use good barrels it'll float........rusty ones will sink.....a small 15-25 pound danforth anchor on 3/8ths inch line with 10 feet of chain will keep the "float in place, and a trip line will allow easy retrievel...for bad weather, two hooks are advisable.....don't use anything too oversized or it becomes a mooring....padlock the oars...

SaltyD from BC
06-17-2008, 12:48 PM
There's quite a few folks that live real remote like up the inlets around here. Water access only, zero roads. No services. The very first thing you need when you set up a remote waterfront place like this is an anchor and mooring. Then a float.

Most folks seem to go with several plywood boxes, glassed all around and heavy timber frames holding the floats in place, then cross ties and 2 inch decking. That way the timbers are out of the water and the bugs.

There's several of these box floats tied up at the harbour right now. They'd be about 10 feet by 4 feet by 3 feet deep. Made of any old cheap plywood, the corners are heavily taped first, then a unit of glass over the whole works all done with cheapo polyester resin. They don't even bother painting them, and I'm told they'll last a good 20 years. An inspection port on top of them is a good idea...

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
06-17-2008, 12:54 PM
There was a craze for charity raft races
http://www.btinternet.com/~jutle/jutle/raft1_1.jpg

Typically - Light alloy tube and beer barrel construction - about eight feel wide and as long as you had the kegs for....

Medium quick and a nice stable platform.
Dual purpose?

Bob Triggs
06-17-2008, 01:31 PM
Your local municipality may have Police Powers for the nearshore work, with appropriate Building Department permitting etc. Often the related agency contacts and requirements will be listed with them as well. I doubt that you are the only person with this kind of project in mind, so they probably have a set of guidelines and requirements for the work. It may turn out to be quite simple.

If your building dept does not have anything on it I would contact the NY State Dept of Environmental Conservation, I think you are in Region 3 so that would be the New Paltz Headquarters.

The Army Corps of Engineers does have a permitting process for some shoreline and nearshore work.

The Hudson River today is a far healthier waterway than it was in the mid 1960's when I lived downriver at Irvington NY. Back before the Clean Water Act and the formation of the EPA, the river was a murkey brown most of the time, with solid raw sewage and related pollution, as well as a chemical brew, making us so sick that we could not swim in it. Hard to believe that people ate fish and eels from the river back then. It has come a long way in the recovery process. I still would not eat fish from the Hudson River, but I would swim and go fishing in it again.

Mrleft8
06-17-2008, 03:10 PM
I have a source for endless supplies of blue plastic barrels, which make great floatation. Free too. I'm betting 4 is all you'll need.

Dutch
06-17-2008, 03:36 PM
True the bottom probably still has some HEAVY metals but thank god they are not Floating metals that could be a problem ;)


hmmmm. metals might be on the bottom, but Dougs link says the fishes are all full of pcb s. One serving per week per person over 15, and none for those under 15 and pregnant women. Apparently something is floating around in the water.:(

Mrleft8
06-17-2008, 03:39 PM
PCBs..... Personal Cat Boats? Or Poly Chlorinated Bi-phenols......HMMMMMMM! Makes one wonder.....

Bruce Hooke
06-17-2008, 03:39 PM
The key problem I've seen with a lot of barrel-based swimming platforms is that they end up being rather on the high side. High floating docks are good if you are getting in and out of a boat, but for swimming it seems to me that you ideally want something where the top is only 9" or so above the water. Mmd's plans sound pretty cool although I'd bet that the ice moves around way too much on the Hudson for it to be viable to leave anything in the river.

The other mistake that is easy to make is making the platform too small. It seems like anything much less than 8' x 10' or so gets pretty unstable. This is especially true of barrel-based platforms since there is more float cantilevered beyond the flotation than is the case with rectangular floats of some sort.

As to how to anchor the dock...I'd think you could anchor it pretty much like a boat mooring.

As to swimming in the river...as others have said, I'd bet that the water itself is pretty clean these days. The biggest problem on rivers like the Hudson tends to be the sediment, which you don't need to touch if you are swimming off a dock. As I understand it, fish are problematic in large part because their food chain leads down to the sediments and to plants or animals that live in this sediment. In the interest of full disclosure, I should say that I do water quality monitoring on an urban river so I have made my own peace with dirty rivers and dirty water. Others may have different standards!

Mrleft8
06-17-2008, 03:41 PM
This is why I suggest that 4 barrels would be enough....PLUS I would incorporate steps. Ladders suck once you get waterlogged....:D

Bruce Hooke
06-17-2008, 03:42 PM
hmmmm. metals might be on the bottom, but Dougs link says the fishes are all full of pcb s. One serving per week per person over 15, and none for those under 15 and pregnant women. Apparently something is floating around in the water.:(

I think PCB's tend to drop out of the water column and bond with the sediments pretty quickly and then the fish pick them up by eating stuff that grows in the sediments or eating stuff that eats stuff that grows in the sediments, or by living themselves in the river sediments (for bottom dwelling fish).

Bruce Hooke
06-17-2008, 03:43 PM
This is why I suggest that 4 barrels would be enough....PLUS I would incorporate steps. Ladders suck once you get waterlogged....:D

Just make sure the barrels are spaced out...one at each corner with a good bit of space in-between. I'm sure this is what you had in mind but I've seen some pretty strange swimming platforms!

bamamick
06-17-2008, 04:03 PM
Geez, guys. The man just wants to go swimming. Four plastic drums, ala Lefty, seal up the bungs with silicone, build your platform, tow it out with a motorboat and secure it with a bucket of concrete. If it floats off get a bigger bucket. Sounds wonderful.

Joe LIVES there. He's not stupid. If the water was going to kill him he wouldn't do this, would he? He wouldn't let Tess do it, would he?

Sounds like a great idea to me. We can't do stuff like that in the bay because of the waves, but when I was a kid I lived near a world championship caliber water skier on Dog river, and we built her a ski ramp that she kept off of her property. I never got to use it (I have never been water skiing), but it was fun watching her. Just like it'll be fun for Joe and Phil and the folks on the Hudson.

Mickey Lake

Aed
06-17-2008, 07:38 PM
Submitted for your consideration...

Ye olde family swim raft. Usually moored at the drop-off, but currently at the dock awaiting refurbishment.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb144/Aed_photos/IMG_0622.jpg

Around 8 foot square, 2x8 frame, 1x6 planking, galvanized screw nails. The four plastic barrels are held in place by nylon webbing; this nylon webbing is fastened to the raft with stainless steel screws and cup washers. A drawback to the nylon webbing is that it stretches and allows the barrels to come loose.

The raft's ladder is resting on top. When the raft is moored, the top of the ladder is lag-bolted into the sides of the deck cut-out.

When the ladder is in it's "installed" position, it looks something like this:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb144/Aed_photos/IMG_0625.jpg

A benefit of this ladder configuration is that it is much easier to climb aboard the raft as you are able to center your weight over the steps as you walk up the ladder. Putting the ladder between two barrels instead of off to one side of the raft helps support the weight coming up the ladder.

Additionally, the family dogs (labradors) are able to walk up the steps of the ladder by themselves to get aboard the raft.

The Bigfella
06-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Corps of Engineers, They control how you can use the Hudson, the ICW and many other impoundments.



I don't want to politicise a swimming thread, but are you guys serious? The ARMY controls what the civilian population can do? I thought that only happened in places like Zimbabwe?

Mrleft8
06-17-2008, 07:50 PM
Just make sure the barrels are spaced out...! Oh dude! These barrels are TOTALLY spaced out! They used to contain SOY PROTEIN! :D



Joe LIVES there. He's not stupid.
Mickey Lake
Are you sure you don't want to edit that post Mickey?.....:D ;)

botebum
06-17-2008, 07:51 PM
It's not really like the army that you are thinking about. Limiting/controlling the way the public uses the waterways is essential to stop abuses and degradation of the resources. That's not to say that there isn't corruption and that abuses don't exist.

Doug

Hwyl
06-17-2008, 08:05 PM
http://survivalofthesickestthebook.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/outhouse-floating.jpg

NoraLee
06-17-2008, 08:08 PM
As a member of the HV Clearwater and sometimes volunteer crew I can attest to the water quality, we could not see below water in 73 when we launched our Oday 22, 10 yrs later, the bluw crabs and the shad were off the yukky list! Sturgeon are thriving and you cans see about 50 ft, in the area around Wappingers Falls! * just 10 miles north of Joe CSOH! The Hudson also has totally treated sewage..

As an aside there were a couple of guys from the old Newburgh Yacht Club in the mid 70s who would steer a raft (not much more than pallets) approx 10x10 with an out board, one would sit on a swivel bar stoolm one on a folding Chaise, and one on the cooler full of beer, These guys would do this every weekend, motoring all the boats in slips at Marlboro Yacht Club and then back to Newburgh 8 miles south! They were enjoying the water more than some of the Yachties!:D

Bruce Hooke
06-17-2008, 09:13 PM
I don't want to politicise a swimming thread, but are you guys serious? The ARMY controls what the civilian population can do? I thought that only happened in places like Zimbabwe?

The Army Corp is sort of an oddball thing...officially it is a department of the U.S. Army but from all I have seen they basically act as a civilian agency in most matters and 98% of their staff is civilian. Furthermore, the control they are exerting over the use of the Hudson River is largely, I presume, related to matters of safe navigation of the river. For example, since the Hudson is a an important shipping corridor they need to make sure the shipping channel is kept clear of obstructions. The may also now get involved in environmental protection, although historically they do not have a great environmental track record. Edited to add: At least part of the blame for this track record lies with the political leadership and the nation as a whole, not the Army Corp.

I can certainly come up with complaints about the Army Corp but they do not have to do with the fact that it is a department of the U.S. Army.

Bruce Hooke
06-17-2008, 09:13 PM
Oh dude! These barrels are TOTALLY spaced out! They used to contain SOY PROTEIN! :D

:D :D :D :D

The Bigfella
06-17-2008, 09:18 PM
Thanks Bruce - I'd seen mention of them on major civilian projects over the years, and as I said, this is a swimming thread. Next gun thread though, I might drag that one out.

Larry P.
06-17-2008, 09:53 PM
Joe call me. I'll help if i can.