Lofting the Brewer catboat [Archive]

Jim Ledger

05-03-2008, 06:30 PM

Let's talk about the centerboard pendent, and I much recommend a solid wood, heavy mast.

Black spruce seems to be the traditional wood for a catboat mast , no? I don't believe that they grow here on Long Island but more to the north in New England. I'll have to look for a source.

The centerboard and its case have been much on my mind lately. It would seem that an early decision must be made before the keel's ordered. The plans show a triangular board of 3/8" stainless steel in a 7/8" wide keel slot. That's 7/8" through 12" of timber. Not impossible, but not easy either. The issue is, though, the cost of the stainless board. It's astronomical. A traditional wood board could be made at a fraction of the cost.

Which would mean making the inner portion of the keel wider to accomodate a wider CB slot.

I'll get around to the pendant shortly. Be back.

paladin

05-03-2008, 06:44 PM

Having worked a bit with Ted Brewer/Bob Walstrom/Jim Betts......Ted Brewer draws nice boats.....

Jim Ledger

05-03-2008, 07:08 PM

[quote=paladin;1831041.Ted Brewer draws nice boats.....but I dunno think anyone has ever accused him of drawing one easy to build...[/quote]

It's not just the difficulty of cutting that slot. If I wanted to cut it, I would. Just might take a bit longer.

And if I thought the stainless board was the way to go then I guess a way would be found. Remember, I won't actually be needing it until the very last thing. A template would do just fine for now.

The problem is that pennant. Ian's thinking of the top end, I'm thinking of the bottom. What I'm wondering is "how do I attach a quarter inch stainless cable to a three eights metal board inside a seven eights slot without a fitting at the attachment point that will end up scraping the inside of the case every time the board is raised or lowered.

The trunk sides are specified as 1" marine ply, something you don't want to abrade too much. Again, through bolted solid wood, for the case sides, might be, if not easier, then more durable.

Ian McColgin

05-03-2008, 07:20 PM

Jim's ruminations are spot on. There's a glass Chappy 25 that fixed this but I've not dug into Marmalade enough to figure if his fix will work for me. My board sticks a several places and I think it's due to the thimbled eye in the cable twisting.

My board is steel, not stainless.

I've not had the problem yet that I've encountered in other metal boarded boats - bendin the board. But it's a real issue. Marmalade cannot really be modified to a wooden board, which I think superior, but new construction might. A wood board for a boat of this tonnage needs to be 3/4" to an inch. Is it worth it? Don't know. I've taken the ground pretty hard on a beat in seas and not bent it yet so maybe my paranoia is not justified.

More thoughts as they come.

Duncan Gibbs

05-03-2008, 07:46 PM

What about a "flat" hinge? Think of having two fat "washers", one welded to a lug and then bolted/welded to the board and one with a groove ground out of the edge with the cable wrapped around it and crimped/whipped and the two "washers" held flat together with a pin peened at both ends. A teflon washer could sit between the two hinging "washers" and teflon could also case the entire connection ensuring it never jams inside the case.

Whaddaya think of that?

Kaa

05-03-2008, 07:49 PM

The problem is that pennant. Ian's thinking of the top end, I'm thinking of the bottom. What I'm wondering is "how do I attach a quarter inch stainless cable to a three eights metal board inside a seven eights slot without a fitting at the attachment point that will end up scraping the inside of the case every time the board is raised or lowered.

I had a similar problem, this thread -- http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78573 -- might be of interest to you...

Kaa

Jim Ledger

05-03-2008, 07:51 PM

Bending a 3/8" steel board would take quite a blow and I'm not sure something else might give out first. But, having the boat heeled over and getting pushed by waves onto a sandbar can put some stress on a board and case.

Sea Rovers original board was 1 1/4" thick with a 1 3/4" slot. The bottom aft corner had been rounded to a large radius over the years. Four boards, drifted together, not one board less than ten inches wide, and not one drift that went through more then two boards. Maybe it was built to flex, cause I'll bet it did.

For those that might be interested, the centerboard and case in this design are somewhat unusual , though not quite traditional. Instead of being rectangular, the board is basically a triangle, about seven feet along the bottom and about five and a half feet high along the aft side. The immediate advantage is more useable cabin space. With the front edge of the case sloping down it opens up the floor space. The board fetches up against a positive stop at its lowest point of travel, still leaving about a foot of board inside the keel.

Anyway, Ian, I'd like to hear what you have to say about your experience with this board. We'll get around to the placement of the winch sooner or later.

holzbt

05-03-2008, 07:52 PM

Jim Ledger

05-03-2008, 08:06 PM

Alan Peck

05-03-2008, 08:15 PM

Kaa

05-03-2008, 08:30 PM

Thanks for the thread, Kaa. That's exactly what concerns me. And when you consider that the metal board weighs three hundred pounds then you get some idea of the problem. This particular junction endures a lot of stress and it must be made extremely fail safe. A catboat with its board down couldn't return to shore around here and raising a heavy metal board with a broken pennant would most likely be impossible without the proper equipment.

Well, the rigging toggle worked very well for me. It's narrow enough and has a sufficient reserve of strength, given that its primary function is to sit between a shroud and a turnbuckle.

The advantage of steel is that it's more weight way down. The trade-off for the wooden board is the need for more ballast which sits higher up.

Kaa

Jim Ledger

05-03-2008, 08:59 PM

Hi Jim,

Having had both metal and wood boards in a number of different boats, I would definitely prefer wood. A metal board requires a winch or some sort of hauling tackle and also presents the problem of the pennant in the narrow case. A wood board can usually be hauled by hand or with a simple tackle, costs less to build and is less likely to bend if you touch bottom. (And we both know THAT NEVER HAPPENS in the GSB.)

Another thing to think about is the trunk placement. I know that the 25' cat designed by Fenwick Williams has an offset trunk as well as some of Charles Wittholz's catboats. Larry P's Antigua aslo has an offset trunk if you'd like to see one in the flesh. Building the trunk alongside saves cutting that slot right through the middle of the really nice stick you just paid big $ for. It might not be worth the design modifications depending on how Brewer has everything tied together down there, but it's been used in many more boats than most people are aware and works just fine.

How've you been, Roger?

I think that even a wood board will need a substantial winch in this case as something that size, weighted to sink, will weigh, if not three hundred pounds, then not too much less.

The offset case is an interesting idea but I don't think I'll go that way. I don't have any qualms about cutting through the keel and I don't want to stray that far from the design. Still, I wouldn't mind having a look at one or two. Just to get an idea how it's done.

Jim Ledger

05-03-2008, 09:07 PM

Looking forward to following your lofting progress.

By the way, your shop looks like something I might like to try. Could you give some details on the ribs and the type fabric you are using.

Also, how are the ribs attached at the bottom.

There's a few more pictures here...

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77323

Alan,

Google "greenhouses" and you'll find lots of steel framed designs available. The plastic is doubled 6 mil, 4 year poly, which has lasted more than ten years and might need replacing in a few more. The bottom of the steel frames just sit in bored holes in that 4 x 6, nice and simple. Soon, I'll put a shade cloth over the whole thing to keep the temperature down.

Alan Peck

05-03-2008, 09:23 PM

Jim; Thanks

Alex Low

05-03-2008, 10:52 PM

Oh man... that is such nice light in there. Will be a joy to draw in that space.

Alex

Ian McColgin

05-04-2008, 04:53 AM

What was I thinking. Of course the board would be 3" or so if wood. Goblin's board was marvelous. One day we took the ground on a hard beat. The sideways strain jammed the board in the trunk so we came to a stop much as a keel boat would, except the board had deflected a bit on impact and as the stresses settled we could feel Goblin give a little shake as the board straightened back up.

A friend with a cute little dutch sloop with metal board took the ground and, not realizing what happened right away, was surprised when he could not wind the board up. Just a slight bend but enough. We eventually got the board out, toasted it for hours in the coals of the world's best beach bonfire, and then sledgehammered it straight.

Goblin's board was more than half below waterline when up and weighted just enough to bring her down, so it was handled with a three part tackle. I was surprised at my first haul-out how heavy the thing was out of water and needed a jack assist from below to get it back up after scraping and painting.

For we who take the ground, there's much to be said for a board off-set from the keel. The structure is stronger - no panting of the keel at the slot - and you're far less likely to be jammed up with stones and such. But in a Chappy, the off-set would make for some novel accomodation problems - resolvable I'm sure.

Marmalade's CB pendant passes over a pulley and back through the back of the cabin to a winch mounted on the foreside of the cockpit. I did not like this when I got her but have yet to come up with better. I can't think how to give room for it to level wind if I mount the winch right atop the trunk at the companion though that's my favorite bright idea - exept for one thing.

With Goblin I found real value to having a bungee at right angles to the pendant to take up any slack when we took the ground. This keeps the bight of the pendent from jamming between board and trunk. With Marmalade the bungee comes down from overhead and doubles rather well as a holder for paper towels - convenient to galley and cockpit alike.

Ron Williamson

05-04-2008, 05:37 AM

Jim
On that CB/pendant attachment issue,you might think about the way that bicycle brake levers have their cables attached and get a keyhole slot milled into the top edge of the board.
Another option would be to attach the pendant conventionally, cut windows in the sides of the CB case along the arc of travel then cover them with 'inspection' plates.This would provide side clearance as well as access.Unfortunately it may weaken the structure too much.
R

Ian McColgin

05-04-2008, 06:12 AM

The attachment problem is that the thimble and the loop welded atop the board are in the same plane and any connection, whether bike-chain type or shackle, is normal to that and tends to jam. The one solution I know of invovled making a flat landing at the bottom of the thimble and the top of the loop and then stitching really stout dacron webbing as the connector. With two full wraps, the web will hold by friction so long as a good row of stitching is put in the narrow space between thimble and loop. Given the build-ups to make flats inside the loops, this arrangement remains upright even if the board is coming up on a grounding with slack pendant. It appears no more subject to trouble than you have from galvanic action and corrosion with the normal pendent-shackle-loop connection.

The bike-brake type idea won't work because the angle of the pendent to the board changes as the board goes up and down. You're stuck with a localized hard spot unless you bring the cable down the back of the board a ways, round the upper rear on a 6" or so diameter, notch that so the wire will lay there, and figure out how to keep the wire in there when the pendent goes slack on a grounding.

Jim, on the stitch deal, the guy in the Catboat Association with the other Chappy 25 up this way did this. If you're a member, try finding him in the book. Or let me know and I'll make my often foggy brain work well enough to look it up when I'm on Marmalade this afternoon. He lives in Wareham of there abouts . . .

By the way, I've written elsewhere that the contrast of his boat and Marmalade is an interesting study in weights. He has lightish aluminum spars while Marmalade's solid stick is well over 600#. Catboat hulls have such powerful form stability that this weight aloft does not meaningfully add healing moment. The down-side of form stability is that the boat reacts strongly to waves, rolling with them. Marmalade's heavy spar dampens the roll amazingly while this other Chappy bobbles in mild chop light wind and thus spills her air. While a lesser sea dog than this other guy, I'm a better, at least more attentive, racer but the size of my lead when we've met has more to do with this bobbeling and air spilling than anything else. Even ifBrewer approves aluminum or light spars - he must as that's how the glass Chappy's are sparred - it's good you plan to stick with wood.

Jim Ledger

05-04-2008, 06:46 AM

Is it true that there's an aluminum catboat mast out there that's faux wood-grained. I'm hoping to stick with the more traditional methods, in part because it might be easier and because the wrinkles have been mostly ironed out. I like the solid mast though I might be tempted to go with birds-mouth should a suitable pile of wood present itself.

As for the centerboard, the opinions seem to be running towards the solid wood board, which is in accordance with my thinking. How thick is the next question. Are you, Ian, and Chuck, suggesting a 2 1/2 to 3" thick board?:eek: That's way more than I would have thought possible. I was thinking that1 1/2" would be the upper limit, in a 2"slot.

Here's a picture of Kathleens keel with the slot being cut. Looks to be about 2"
http://www.beetlecat.com/28catboat/pic04.htm

Mrleft8

05-04-2008, 07:37 AM

I assume that you'll be laminating your mast... I'll keep an eye out at my local yard for nice Black Spruce stock if you'd like...How much will you need?

Jim Ledger

05-04-2008, 08:12 AM

Not laminating, Lefty. Birds mouth, maybe, but not laminating. If you could ask around about a suitable tree I'd appreciate it. I see Ken Hutchens used a nice Black Spruce for his mast. That would be best, unless an unusually large (for these parts) piece of Douglas fir should turn up. Thanks.

Here's a link to the "Silent Maid" build with some nice shots of the keel structure. Again, the CB slot looks about 2" wide. Silent Maid is about 30' with about a 900 sq. ft. sail, and so is considerably larger than the design in question.

http://www.woodboatbuilder.com/pages/maidhome.html

merlinron

05-04-2008, 09:06 AM

there is a way to do a reliable, easily done "bicycle brake cable" style pendant attatchment on a wood board of about 1/12 inches or more thick and include a radiused track for the cable to travel on without derailing when slack. it doesn't involve any expensive machine shop time, either, just a couple of suitable sized plates, a short length of bronze or stainless 1/2+/- in rod, some bronze or stainless flathead machine screws of 1/4, 5/16 or 3/8 diameter as long as the board is thick and some simple hole to drill. screw and pin sizes will depend on weight and size of the board.
i am not a whizz on this computer thing and don't have or know how to draw on it, but i can try to explain it....

from the top edge of the board, where the pendant would attatch, lay out a radius that suitably follows the path that the forward edge of the pendant needs to take from the winch to the board when down to eliminate any hard spots. this radius is drawn down into the board so that it's upper end is at the top edge of the board and aimed at the winch, just as the pendant would lie when the board is fully down and extended into the board about 8 inches or so.
next, layout a line that follows the pendant's aft edge from the board to the winch. lay this line si ther is about an inch between the forward radius line and the aft line at whatever depth into the board you chose to stop the forward radius line.
next, lay out a circle, square area at the bottom od these two lines that will be large enough to contain whatever method of pedant attatchment you want to use. a rigging toggle would work great here.
now, cut this layed out shape out of the board.
next, figure out how big a plate you need to cover the hole you just cut out and overlap the hole by 1-1/2 inches at the top fore and aft and at the bottom of the hole. lay out the plates on both sides of the board, and let these plates into the board so they are flush to the sides. when you are satisfied with thier fit in the board, clamp them in place and drill through both plates and the board with a tap size drill for whatever size flathead machine screws you chose. tap threads in one plate and drill the other out for the screw size. counter sink the holes in the drilled out plate to recieve the screw heads fully flush. make sure the head of the screws are good and flush, even sunk into the plate just a bit. you should now be able to clamp the two plates in thier mortices with the screws.
now, on the inside surface of the plates, lay out a center for the pin where it will be located at the bottom of the cut out and positioned to be in the center of the one inch gap between the forward radius and aft pendant lines. this is the pivot pin for your toggle that is contained in the space at the bottom of the cut out. drill a small pilot hole here, throught both plates. then take a drill bit that will be a loose fit on the pin and counterbore the inside of the plates, just stopping before the drill breaks through the out side of the plates, making shoulders to contain the pin betweem the plates. size the pin length to fit snug in the hole, between the plates clamped in the board.
by this time, the rest is pretty obvious..........
if you would like a drawing of this, pm me your adress and i'll draw something up.

Ian McColgin

05-04-2008, 10:36 AM

I'd ask Brewer about converting to a wood board.

I think it would be too big to just widen the keel slot without adding a lot of structure down there, which in turn would obstruct the flow fore and aft in the two bilges. Unless you have enough water to overtop the floor boards, there's no way for water to get from one side to the other, so plan on two pumps. Add a pile of stuff on either side of the keel and you have to add a couple of pumps forward.

It could be that off-setting a wooden board would work with some accomodation changes. You could get a nice double berth next to the board, maybe even going out under the bridge deck a little, more the companion a bit more on center and make an actually pleasant head at the foot of the companion. Or, much like the current layout but swap head and galley with the head access from forward.

One advantage/disadvantage of the heavy metal board is that as it drags on the bottom it slows you down. Nice if you're inattentivly heading toward the hard brown stuff around the edges as it stops you while you're still floating, often. But not so good if you're bouncing a shoal you know you'll get over.

I cannot imagine that the shere weight of the metal board adds to stability, but it may slice the water more nicely than a thick board and the weight might damp the roll a bit. Brewer thought about all this and if he thinks it a wretched idea, won't charge (I imagine) for calling you and your pals on WBF fools. If he thinks it possible, I bet the fee for him engineering it right would be more than worth the cost.

G'luck

holzbt

05-04-2008, 07:10 PM

The centerboard on the Modesty (36') is 1 3/4" thick. Red oak drifted with galv. steel. Seems to have lasted okay for the last 28 years and hoisted by a simple tackle on the cabin top.

Jim Ledger

05-04-2008, 07:48 PM

Thanks for that, Merlinron. I had to read through a couple of times to get the gist but it seems like a good method.

Of course, your right, Ian, asking Mr.Brewers opinion of the wood board is the thing to do. Going the whole route and asking for a design with construction details scares me a bit though. Asking architects how something should be done is often something I regret, wishing I'd kept my mouth shut. I mean, a solid wood board, even a triangular one, shouldn't be a difficult piece of work. Nor should a through-bolted case instead of a plywood one. The only difference would be the increase of an inch or so of width to the board, slot and case. Not much really.

As for widening the keel, the design calls for cheek pieces to be screwed to the sides of the keel to increase the back rabbet. Widening the keel would incorporate these cheek pieces into the keel itself, leaving the bilge architecture pretty much the same.

Now, how about boxing the heels of the frames? I want to but the design calls for frames stopping short of the keel, bolted to the floors. Very good for drainage and easy to build but..

..a catboat endures a tremendous amount of torque. That big, unstayed rig up forward, working against that beamy hull puts a hellacious amount of twist on things. Sea Rover has frames 1 3/4" by 2 1/2" half dovetailed 2" deep into the keel with wedges that locked everything in place. Crosbys did this and it's not an uncommon detail in many older boats. Seems better, somehow.

You see, I'm not experienced with working from designers plans and I'm not sure how much is written in stone and what's intended to be left to the builders discretion. The shape of the hull, the rig details and general layout are what I want from the plans. When it come to the joinery, I'm kind of opinionated and don't take instruction well, unless I happen to agree, of course.

Here's a small bit of progress. the grid is laid out and the profile is drawn. This is the profile of the tumblehome stem.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/stemprofile.jpg

Jim Ledger

05-04-2008, 07:56 PM

The centerboard on the Modesty (36') is 1 3/4" thick. Red oak drifted with galv. steel. Seems to have lasted okay for the last 28 years and hoisted by a simple tackle on the cabin top.

Maybe we can take a look during the boat show at the Museum in July.

http://www.limaritime.org/boatshowpage.html

holzbt

05-05-2008, 10:30 AM

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k253/holzboat/offset%20CB%20trunk%20details/IMG_1944.jpg

holzbt

05-05-2008, 10:35 AM

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k253/holzboat/offset%20CB%20trunk%20details/IMG_1953.jpg

holzbt

05-05-2008, 10:38 AM

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k253/holzboat/offset%20CB%20trunk%20details/IMG_1956.jpg

Ian McColgin

05-05-2008, 07:32 PM

Here's why Jim will get Brewer to at least approve if not engineer any change to an off-set board and/or wooden board. The stresses on a little barely one ton boat and a boat that displaces five or six tons are huge.

paladin

05-05-2008, 07:40 PM

Jim...early next week maybe the pony express will bring you some drawings by Charles Wittholz, similar sized boat for comparison....

Ian McColgin

05-06-2008, 06:33 AM

Chuck, is the Wittholz as hefty? I always think of his work as less mass-intensive but I only know of, not viewed, his (what is it?) twenty five footer.

Jim, don't you just love that stem. And that's only one of the incredible curves. The whole boat is such a riot of shape it's for Brewer what Bounty was for LFF. Like LFH stems, that's an easy one to get wrong. In life it makes the boat float above the water.

I want, project #7,458 when I have the $$$$, to put in a controlable pitch prop. Probably Sabb since Hundestead doesn't make anything small enough. Especially for a catboat, where motor loads vary hugely depending on whether you're flogging into wind and sea, cruising across a plate of glass, or using the mill to keep her speed up around five on a beat with a deadline, the ability to match seems a good thing. The Autoprop, nifty as the concept is, has an interesting wear problem I'd want to know more about before going that route.

I saw pix of a glass Chappy 25 that had a hefty outboard set in a well under the cockpit sole. I don't see how this idea could work in wood but it does raise the notion, why not gain some real sail efficiency by off-setting the shaft and prop? Given the hull shape, I'd expect her to pull hard on the prop side in reverse but otherwise, the extra efficiency under sail might be nice. Sorta. As drawn, the Chappy is really docile under power, very easy to bring into the dock at a crowded resteraunt-bar and look like you know what you're doing - Anyone know Baxters?

Jim Ledger

05-06-2008, 07:51 AM

Roger, thanks for the various offset trunk details but I'm not ready to re-think things to that extent. Still like to have a look a Modesty's trunk, though.

Chuck, thanks, what can I say? I'll be looking forward to seeing the Wittholz plans. A comparison will be very informative and no doubt provide a lot of new ideas.

Ian, That stem profile is almost too much. In a good way, of course. No one will ever call it understated. Sheer's nice, too. They look so good on the flat I can't wait to see them in three dimensions. The numbers are working out really well, so far, nothing more than a sixteenth off the batten, which I call dead-on.

A word about the Sabb adjustable pitch propeller. Sea Rover has a Sabb G-10. One of the last. A great engine and particularly suited to a catboat. You have to account for the slow acceleration of the single cylinder with the heavy flywheel while maneuvering in close but it has plenty of power. I've always used it with full pitch an all conditions, so far.
I'm not sure that the propeller could be used without the engine, as they're designed as a unit. I'll explain more if you're interested.

.

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )

05-06-2008, 09:10 AM

What no photos? :)

Even still I'm sitting here with a Homer Drool :D

norseman

05-06-2008, 09:25 AM

Sounds like an interesting project. As to propeller systems, as far as I know almost any combination is possible. Depending on your budget..
http://www.westmekan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=29

Jim Ledger

05-06-2008, 05:56 PM

What no photos? :)

It's difficult to get interesting lofting pictures. Although the process is fascinating, it doesn't translate well into pictures. So, to play it up for the camera, here's the rudder. The BARN DOOR rudder.:D
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/rudderlofting.jpg

Jim Ledger

05-07-2008, 07:05 PM

Picture of the day.

The half-breadth of the sheer.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/sheerbatten.jpg

paladin

05-07-2008, 07:12 PM

Jim.....I made some drafting "ducks" about three times the normal weight for such things.....then used a lot of salvaged diving weights in place of the ice picks....saved the "drafting table"....helps you develop the strong forearms for operating the tiller later......:D

Jim Ledger

05-08-2008, 06:54 AM

Good idea, Chuck. A little more exercise at the end of the day might be a good thing.:D

Larry, 6-0-0+, station 4.

Jim Ledger

05-08-2008, 07:41 PM

Here you go, Larry, the midship section. At this point it needs a little tweaking but you get the picture.

The pattern seems to be...get a curve down, play around with it, then leave it overnight. Go read Chappele, Vaitses or a something Fenwick Williams wrote about catboat design, "Design Elements of the Catboat". I find these books very difficult to study without actually lofting a boat. Once immersed in the process, however, they suddenly become extremely relevant and useful. The logic and sequence to take is not immediately apparent and I'm content to take things slowly, enjoying the lines as they emerge, hopefully there won't be too much backtracking. Maybe it's the white paint but these lines are a bitch to erase.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/midshipsection.jpg

JimD

05-08-2008, 08:08 PM

you mean overall beam is 12'.. Wow.... a big 'un

Twelve feet and an eighth of an inch.

Jim Ledger

05-08-2008, 08:19 PM

Twelve feet and an eighth of an inch.

Plus rub rails.:p

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )

05-09-2008, 06:19 AM

This is gonna be my favorite thread to watch.

I just had a dream that I won the lottery just as "The Legand" was finishing up this boat and I handed him a big bag of $$$$$ and sailed off into the sunset in a cabinet maker grade liveaboard catboat. ;)

Given Jim "The Legand" Ledger level of skill and artistic eye this is going to be one of the great catboats of all time, so says I, one for the books.

Jim Ledger

05-09-2008, 06:53 AM

Thanks, I may will look up for those books mentioned..

What are you using for drawing/lofting your lines with? Is its chalk?

No, pencil, carpenters and regular #2 and yesterday I picked up a box of colored pencils so thing don't get too confusing.

There's a lot of good reading out there about catboats, Larry. "The Catboat Book" for starters. The Catboat Association (http://www.catboats.org/) prints a great little booklet called "The Catboat and How to Sail Her" with lots of rigging tips. Stan Grayson wrote two books about cats, "Catboats" and "Cape Cod Catboats". "The Making of Tom Cat" is a good read, especially if you're building Bill Gardens Tom Cat design. Mystic Seaport has a nice little book called "The Building of Frances" about the recent building of a Crosby design that's a part of the museum exhibits.

And Joe, if you must, "legend" is spelled with an "e".;) You've got a pretty critical eye when it comes to catboats, as I recall. I've got some ideas I want to run by you next time we meet.

Mrleft8

05-09-2008, 07:32 AM

I did that colored pencil thing when I did the lines for the Marjie B. It really does help a LOT.

Russ Manheimer

05-09-2008, 07:36 AM

Jim,

Thanks for taking the time to let us watch over your shoulder. Some firm bilge there. What do you use for battens?

Russ

P.L.Lenihan

05-09-2008, 08:32 AM

And Joe, if you must, "legend" is spelled with an "e".;) .

You'd think a guy posting from an 8GB iphone would at least have spell check and the Merriam-Webster on the darned thing.....:D:D:D

But no matter how you spell it,the spirit is right and many look forward to this long treat of a thread!

Peter

Jim Ledger

05-11-2008, 12:51 PM

Jim,

What do you use for battens?

Russ

Hi, Russ.

I've been putting aside suitable rippings for some time and have a nice selection. The batten shown outlining the sheer is glued up from three lengths of clear cedar. It's good for long, fairly easy curves and measures about 3/4" x 1 1/4" x 36'. Getting it home was fun. For the body plan sections, as shown, I'm using some red oak about 1/4" x1" which can be sprung in one, two, three or four layers depending on the curve. The oak takes a tighter bend than cedar or fir without breaking. As needs arise, I'll rip whatever sizes and species works in a particular situation.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/loftingtable.jpg

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )

05-11-2008, 01:39 PM

Love the strategicly placed Catboat Assoc. coffee mug ;)

Robmill0605

05-11-2008, 02:40 PM

I'm really enjoying this thread, I like the use of the icepicks instead of nails. I'm making some lofting whales to try out like Chuck has.
Looking like a terrific start. Thanks for the pics! More!

Jim Ledger

05-11-2008, 07:41 PM

I like the use of the icepicks instead of nails.!

The icepicks are an idea out of Alan Vaitses book "Lofting", a book which I'm finding a great help. The icepicks are quick and easy to use single handed, but they do get in the way a bit sighting down the battens.

Getting into the thick of it a bit more now, the body plan. Things aren't lining up as nicely as in the beginning, lines are shorter and more quickly curved with the marks more closely spaced.

Let me try to explain what's going on for those who might be interested. Many here have been through this and already know, but there might be some with a desire to give it a try. For them, I recommend reading up on it and starting with something simple. My observations are those of someone with limited knowledge of the subject and should be regarded as such. However, I have no doubt that the results will be satisfactory.

The first things to draw are the lines on the boat that will be unchanging. By this I mean, that once plotted and drawn will not be subject to modification. These lines include the sheerline, outline of the keel and stem and the rabbet line. These are drawn in profile and plan view and provide a framework on which to work out the lines of the body of the hull itself.

Next, the body plan is plotted. It's shown in this picture, ten athwartships sections of the hull centered on that #5 line. You can't see them very well, though, because they're penciled in red, very finely. The reason for this is that they'll likely be changed somewhat as things progress.

The forward section is shown with the battens sprung around. Notice the nice bit of tumblehome in the bow.

After each section is plotted, its measurements are transferred to a stick, shown here. one side of the stick records the heights and the other side is used for the widths involved.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/fwdstationlofting.jpg

Jim Ledger

05-11-2008, 07:52 PM

So, there are the ten stations, each one with a stick full of marks, carefully measured and noted. Here, each stick is placed on its corresponding station on the profile. Heights will be measured, referenced off the waterline. The waterline mark on each stick is lined up with the waterline on the drawing, then the rest of the heights can be ticked off, no measuring needed and so, less chance of error.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/lofting1.jpg

Jim Ledger

05-11-2008, 08:02 PM

After the marks are transferred to the profile, the long lines can be plotted. These shown are the after portions of the buttock lines. They look neat, however they needed considerable tweaking to lie near their marks. Some of the marks couldn't be hit without bending the battens out of a fair curve. Hence the light pencil marks on the body plan. Things will have to be erased and redrawn until the views agree.

I should mention that at this point the table of offsets has been put aside except for reference. From this point on, the battens will determine the final curves.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/buttocklines.jpg

Ian McColgin

05-12-2008, 04:31 AM

I'd double check the off-sets. They should give a fair curve, even if it's fair in a way the batten does not like. A set of fair sections will not necessarily yield a fair hull.

Anyway, incredible job. Yesterday I painted Marmalade and plan to get her off the railway today. (That's why I'm up so early - crashed about 2000.) Painting is a wonderful way to really feel the riot of curves in this hull and there's really nothing like easing my arthritic back into the moaning chair with a glass of the good and the sunset giving harmony to the white topsides and red bottom.

P.L.Lenihan

05-12-2008, 05:38 AM

Isn't there a famous rule that says,"a fair line always supersedes a given offset." or something to that effect..........As long as the rest of the lines line up and,most importantly, THE DIAGONALS....ooo...yippeee :)

Can't wait to see some nice pics of Marmalade all fresh in her Sunday-goin'-ta-meetin' cloths. Ought to give Mr.Ledger some pleasent inspiration!

Peter

Jim Ledger

05-12-2008, 06:42 AM

Isn't there a famous rule that says,"a fair line always supersedes a given offset."

Yes, that is the rule. But sometimes it's difficult to chose which offset is the more nearly correct one.When the curve is pronounced the decision is easier. Four points may lay on the curve with one off by itself, so I ignore the loner.. The straighter the line gets the more ambiguous the curve becomes and the choice becomes less obvious.

The reason I laid down those three buttock lines first was to check the aft sections. in the drawing, the sections of the bottom, fron the transom forward, under the cockpit, appear as straight lines from the rabbet to the turn of the bilge. A simple straight deadrise. This seems right, yet the offsets aren't giving me a straight line or any reasonable curve. The buttocks seemed to work well on three stations..but there was one that wouldn't fall into line. No doubt the waterlines and diagonals will shed some more light on what should go where.

Ian, as I'm feeling my way along I'm being quite meticulous and checking things quite often. If I was more experienced I'd know what I could get away with and might be tempted to take short cuts. As that's clearly not the case, I'm taking it one careful step at a time.

Bruce Taylor

05-12-2008, 08:28 AM

But sometimes it's difficult to chose which offset is the more nearly correct one.

No doubt this is obvious, but offsets taken from high-angle intersections do tend to be more accurate. The more nearly-perpendicular the lines of intersection, the more I am inclined to trust the offset lifted from that point (assuming no typos & transcription errors, of course).

Nice thread, Jim. :)

Jim Ledger

05-12-2008, 08:46 AM

but offsets taken from high-angle intersections do tend to be more accurate. The more nearly-perpendicular the lines of intersection, the more I am inclined to trust the offset lifted from that point

In theory, yes. But what if the one you should trust the most is the one that appears out of line?

This is the reason for lofting those buttock lines. They should be giving me the most accurate reading of what should be happening in the deadrise portion of the bottom, the flat areas aft.

Bruce Taylor

05-12-2008, 08:57 AM

In theory, yes. But what if the one you should trust the most is the one that appears out of line?

In that case, I trust Jim's judgment. ;)

Robmill0605

05-12-2008, 10:51 AM

The icepicks are an idea out of Alan Vaitses book "Lofting", a book which I'm finding a great help. The icepicks are quick and easy to use single handed, but they do get in the way a bit sighting down the battens.
posted by Jim Ledger
.......
Thanks Jim, I have the book and have used this method of using icepicks myself. The tick sticks are a very accurate way of transfering mutiple marks with less error. Also advised in the book by Vaitses.

Looking great, enjoying looking over your shoulder......

Jim Ledger

05-15-2008, 06:45 PM

The forward half of the waterline, showing a nice bit of hollow. The batten works well forward but won't make the bend aft, so a more flexible one will have to be used there, running the curves into each other.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/waterlinelofting.jpg

outofthenorm

05-15-2008, 07:06 PM

This is cool. Every line looks better than the last. Great shot Jim.

paladin

05-15-2008, 09:33 PM

Oh...Helll.....now my arthritic knees is hurtin' all over agin'......

Frank E. Price

05-16-2008, 11:20 PM

Very interesting thread. I just looked at the plan on Brewer's web site. 10,100 lb, 12' beam, 522 sq ft SA all in one sail; uffdah! That's one big little boat. What a piece of work. Thanks for putting it out here. That shop is going to be chock full, isn't it?

Frank

Jim Ledger

05-18-2008, 06:12 PM

That shop is going to be chock full, isn't it?

Frank

It's the way of all shops, everywhere.;)

The waterlines are drawn on the plan view and there was a bit of minor fussing with some of the after sections, getting the tumblehome right. Nothing major, though.

Here, the forward end of a buttock line is being drawn on the profile view. Because the waterlines were already drawn on the plan, they gave a lot of additional points on the profile, one on each waterline, to help nail down the actual curve this lines should take. Without the points on the waterlines, there would only be points on the stations, thirty inches apart, which would only give a vague idea of the curve.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/buttocklineinprofile.jpg

P.L.Lenihan

05-18-2008, 06:54 PM

Judging by the presence of a hammer in the picture, I would imagine Mr.Ledger, that your palms have just about had it with pounding in those pesky ice-picks. I once duct-taped a hockey puck onto the palm of my hand when I could no longer take it :) Careful with the hammer though, you might drive the ice pick in too deep and have to wrestle the darn things out afterward.......risking the handle coming loose in your hand and the pick staying on the lofting table.

Happy pounding and take care of your knees:)

Peter_

Jim Ledger

05-19-2008, 05:22 AM

Judging by the presence of a hammer in the picture, I would imagine that your palms have just about had it with pounding in those pesky ice-picks.

Peter_

Naaaah, the ice pick are easy to use and work quite well, in addition to being faster. If you look closely at the picture, you'll see two 8d finishing nails where the batten takes a sharp bend. The nails hold better in this situation.

That's all.;)

Jim

P.L.Lenihan

05-19-2008, 03:58 PM

Thanks for the reminder for me to get my eyes checked Mr.Ledger...:)
Continued success with the lofting!

Peter

Bill Perkins

05-19-2008, 09:13 PM

Just to pick up on something Ian mentioned : my boat 's plans had "keel scuppers" spec'ed . These are just a couple of good sized holes , one forward , one aft , drilled through the keel right down by the bearding line . I lined mine with hard copper plumbing pipe . These allow bilge water to drain from one side of a big keel to the other . You can then use one pump ,though I choose to have two for redundancy . I'm thinking about adding a tiny diaphram pump , rigged to a manual switch and intended to clear the last few gallons out of the boat when putting her away .

Jim Ledger

05-21-2008, 06:45 PM

my boat 's plans had "keel scuppers" spec'ed . These are just a couple of good sized holes , one forward , one aft , drilled through the keel right down by the bearding line . I lined mine with hard copper plumbing pipe . These allow bilge water to drain from one side of a big keel to the other .

That's an excellent suggestion, Bill. Even pumping one side dry would still leave 2 or 3 inches of water on the other. I've never heard of this being done and I would suppose that attention must be paid to keeping the line clear, but it would certainly help the drainage.

I'm going to look into the possibility of using a Black Locust knee for the stem and forefoot, which would also incorporate the mast step, rather than using several smaller, straight grained pieces. Here is a rough pattern to bring to the sawmill to explore the possibility. The timber would have to have a sided thickness of 7". It's a long shot, I know, but there's no better way to build a catboat stem.

The outer edge is the stem profile. The inner is just a quickly marked off curve. There's no point in refining this without an actual timber to consider.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/roughstempattern.jpg

Ian McColgin

05-21-2008, 07:22 PM

I'd not worry much about scuppers side to side. No good place with the CB in the way for the whole length of the deeper parts of the bilges. Have two bilge pumps one per side each in the bay just under the companion bulkhead - lowest point so each side will drain to there. Under weigh, pump the weather side as on the lee side the water will have traveled away from the pump in that shallow bilge.

G'luck

Frank E. Price

05-22-2008, 06:00 PM

Does anyone use docking plugs on a boat that's hauled out for extended periods? I'm thinking of the bronze plugs with a square head that are accessed from below the boat, presumably one each side of the keel.

Frank

Jim Ledger

05-25-2008, 05:15 PM

Larry, a white oak crook would be an excellent alternative.

Frank, the catboat I'm sailing now was built in 1916 and the garboard drain plugs were two tapered wooden plugs, driven into holes in the garboard, nothing more. The current ones are bronze.

The fairing is complete and I'm satisfied with the result. It wasn't without a bit of erasing and redoing but the final lines are very pretty to look at and, most importantly, the different views agree with each other.

These are the body plan sections, penciled in dark red and ready to make molds.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/faired-upbodyplan.jpg

Jim Ledger

06-08-2008, 10:52 AM

Isn't finding a good White Oak crook that large is another problem?

Larry, if it was up to me, finding and buying and harvesting a knee like that would be just about impossible. Fortunately, there are a few sawyers who can still provide this kind of piece, given a bit of time to look around. One of them has my stem on his list of pieces to watch out for.

Meanwhile, the lofting has slowed down a lot these past few weeks. After ordering the backbone timber, the urgency went out of the task, as there will be somewhat of a wait for the timber. In addition, everything else that I usually do around the ranch has been literally piling up and much needs attending to. Forget about going sailing. The cover only just came off the boat, but the frame still needs to be removed and the sail and spars need a bit of attention.

Just to keep things interesting. though, is the sudden appearance of the future engine for the boat, a 1969 Sabb G10, with 1 1/2 hours on the clock, never been in a boat yet.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Sabb1.jpg

Paul Girouard

06-08-2008, 10:58 AM

Just to keep things interesting. though, is the sudden appearance of the future engine for the boat, a 1969 Sabb G10, with 1 1/2 hours on the clock, never been in a boat yet.

Nice find:cool: Who had that stashed away? Spendy $$ ?? Looks sweet either way.

And I hear ya on the work around the house , jeesh it never ends does it! Mow the grass, trim the trees , P/W the driveway , etc ,etc.

P.L.Lenihan

06-09-2008, 12:56 AM

I envy your machinery Mr.Ledger! Once summer gets underway(if it already hasn't down your way), what are the temperatures like in your bowshed? Is beer an integral part of the cooling system? :)
Love this thread and look forward to the process as it occurs.

Best of luck!

Peter

Jim Ledger

06-10-2008, 12:16 PM

that engine look well suited for catboat.. who needs to go fast anyway..
Bandsaw in the background is huge... what is throat height on that?

That engine will be very well suited for the boat. Although it's only rated at 10 horsepower it has a tremendous amount of torque working through a 19" variable pitch wheel. It'll push the boat at hull speed at a sedate 1800 RPM while burning through 3 quarts of diesel an hour. It's also hand-startable, a nice feature in a marine engine.

The bandsaw is a 20" Powermatic, an ex-high school shop machine from the 60's. When I bought it, about 18 years ago, it was in pieces. I sandblasted all the parts to bare metal and put in a 3 HP single phase motor and recently installed Carter guides. It's actually a metal cutting machine with two speed ranges and a variable speed transmission and can be dialed down to run very slowly, if needed.

Jim Ledger

06-13-2008, 05:26 PM

[quote=boylesboats;1861951

So will that bandsaw able to re-saw planks?[/quote]

You bet, Larry.:)

Here's a good thing. Forumite and fellow catboater Doug B PM'd me to ask if I could use a gaff for the new boat. Maybe a bit early, yet, but one day it'll come in handy, sure. Says he's coming down my way from Nantucket this weekend and he'd bring it with him.

So, this afternoon he shows up at my shop with the gaff and dropped it off. We took the Sea Rover for a spin up and down the Patchogue River. Just motored, sails not on yet.

Here it is, it's absolutely beautiful. Solid sitka spruce, twenty four feet long. I'd have driven up there to pick it up if I had to. A gorgeous piece of wood.

Thank you, Doug. That was most generous.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Gaff1.jpg

outofthenorm

06-13-2008, 05:42 PM

Ah Jim, she's a lucky boat already - and you haven't even cut wood!

- Norm

Mrleft8

06-14-2008, 07:43 AM

Bandsaw in the background is huge... what is throat height on that?
Nah....That's just a lil' bitty thing.....;)
It's all looking good Jim! I'm still amazed at your ability to banish dust and debris from your work enviroment.... Do you have super powers that you're not telling us about? (Super duper dustpan man! :D )

Jim Ledger

06-16-2008, 06:40 PM

The pattern of the inside face of the transom.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/transompattern.jpg

Ian McColgin

06-16-2008, 08:25 PM

That tumblehome is so sausy.

Jim Ledger

06-17-2008, 12:18 AM

That tumblehome is so sausy.

Look about right, Ian? I sure hope so.;)

Ian, on your boat, are the transom planks glued up solid, or is there caulking seams in between?

Jon Agne

06-17-2008, 07:31 AM

Hi Jim,

That engine looks great in your shop!!!

SURPRISE's transom is oak and is caulked because , as you know, it moves. I think that with a much more stable wood, like mahogany, you could glue it up.

Jon

PS: Launching tomorrow on the tide.

Jim Ledger

06-17-2008, 10:34 AM

Hi Jim,

That engine looks great in your shop!!!

.

Wait till you see it sitting on the keel. Those little Sabbs just drip personality, don't they?

BTW, Jon was the former caretaker of the little diesel in the picture, who kindly let me have a turn looking after it for a bit.

My knees have about had it, I'm fed up with lofting and I'm itching to stick one bit of wood to another and get going.

So, here goes...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Transom1.jpg

Jim Ledger

06-17-2008, 10:48 AM

Oh com'on Jim, quit teasin' me here...:D

How do you like that, Larry?

Mmmmmm, looks gooooood, don't it?:D

P.L.Lenihan

06-18-2008, 05:31 AM

My knees have about had it, I'm fed up with lofting and I'm itching to stick one bit of wood to another and get going.

So, here goes...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Transom1.jpg

Now the fun really begins! Can't wait to see some of your detail construction techniques Mr.Ledger.....I'm a veritable sponge when it comes to learning-through-viewing and your pictures are aces!!
How are the temps in your bowshed?

Peter

Jim Ledger

06-18-2008, 10:34 AM

How are the temps in your bowshed?

Peter

The cloudy days are best in the Summer. Even with the shade cloth on and the fan running it can get a bit uncomfortable during the middle of the day. The best thing would be two large sliding doors that opened up one end almost entirely, allowing a free passage of air.

Here's the transom, glued up, trimmed to size and sanded, and ready for beveling the edges.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/transom2.jpg

Eric D

06-18-2008, 01:04 PM

What material and thickness is that transom?

looks great.

Epoxy for glue or ????

Keep them coming!!!

Jim Ledger

06-18-2008, 02:39 PM

Thanks, Eric. The wood is African mahogany, inch and a half thick, glued with West epoxy.

P.L.Lenihan

06-18-2008, 05:22 PM

Don't you just love that squirrely grain in African mahogany Mr.Ledger? It must have been a real treat running that top plank through the jointer then cutting it on the table saw watching the wood take on some wild bends as the stress is relieved then back to the jointer........It drives me nuts! Spent the better part of today getting out the stock for the sliding door to the head with some absolutely gorgeous quarter sawn African mahogany.What a delight to rip this stuff and experience zero tension relief.
I'll have to take some pictures of this wood too,as it is just delicious.

Can't really make out whether or not you used splines,pins or drifts when assembling your beautiful transom(or maybe nothing at all?). Does the transom have lots of framing stock on the forward face?

Continued success and thanks,as always,for the photos :)

Peter

Jim Ledger

06-18-2008, 05:43 PM

Peter, if we're going to be friends, you're going to have to start calling me Jim, cause this Mr. Ledger business is starting to really piss me off.;) If you keep doing it I'll know you're yanking my chain, so quit it.:D

I dunno where you bought your wood, but that mahogany started flat and stayed flat. Heavy stuff, too. I have high hopes for it behaving itself in the days to come. No spline, dowels or anything else, just nice flat boards, jointed up nice, pulled up with three clamps, one joint at a time. The boards were planed to 1.6" and the whole thing sanded out right at 1.5', just like the plan calls for.

P.L.Lenihan

06-18-2008, 06:01 PM

I'm sorry Mr.Ledger if I offended you by refering to you as Mr. Ledger.Please understand that as we have yet to milk cows together nor to tie a good drunk on, I really do not know you. Add to that your multiple photo essays over the years illustrating your level of craftmanship and it becomes easy to see why I would never presume to be so familiar. You sir,are an inspiration and a master craftman,at least to this observer, and Mr.Ledger just sounds right to my ears.

However, not wishing to offend any further, I will cease from refering to you by your proper name and simply refer to you as sir.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

I bought my wood at the local "speciality" lumber yard and have noticed over the years the quality has gone from excellent to almost garbage,or pallet wood, as some would call it, while the prices have gone up,up,up. African mahogany is selling here for CAN.$6.98 bf. + 15% tax.

A new supplier from which I made my most recent purchase appears to carry some really sweet mahogany and at only CAN. $5.50 bf..

Thanks again for the grand photos and continued success with your build.

Peter

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )

06-18-2008, 06:04 PM

Hey "Legend" ;) ya gonna keep the transom bright and show off that mahogany or ya gonna paint it ? I think its catboat etiquette to paint but seems a shame to hide that grain. I'm torn what about you ;)

Oh and I knew you had to put down that pencil and ice picks soon, nice to see ya doing what you do best. What a GREAT thread this is gonna be, thanks for sharing

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )

06-19-2008, 07:18 AM

Woke this morning with coffee in hand looking for the "Legends" continued photo docudrama ;) Ya out there in the shop Jim ?

Jim Ledger

06-19-2008, 09:11 AM

Paul Girouard

06-19-2008, 09:33 AM

Nothing to report this morning, Joe.

The keel's on its way, though, finally, along with a few other bits of wood. Which brings up a troubling problem. It's this, should I start a "Keel and Backbone" thread, and start from zero again, or just keep adding to the lofting thread all the way through? I'mean, there were 3500 views before one piece of wood was cut. An entire catboat build would produce numbers rivaling Lefty's Pub, but with actual content.

You're good with the numbers, Joe, what do you think?

I say leave it all as one big thread , maybe change the name of the thread to "Building a Brewer catboat". One thread , all the info in one place, questions could be answered by saying "see post # umpty squat" for info about "yadda, yadda , yadda".

Cleaner , simpler , than multiple threads about the same "over all" subject , IMO , which I know does not count , but I thought I'd give it anyway.:o

Great thread BTW :cool:

Eric D

06-19-2008, 12:53 PM

Jim,

too bad you don't live a bit closer. My problem is I have too much white oak on our different properties and not enough time to build a great boat like you have. I am sure a knee could be found rather easily but that would be one hell of a road trip for only one chunk of wood!!!!

good luck in your quest!

One thread is good, keep it all together. Although, Rob's "Susan" threads with hot links to the others is pretty damn sweet too!!!

Pete Dorr

06-19-2008, 01:15 PM

Jim

If you are going to go the multiple thread route - please put the date in the thread title

Jim's awesome catboat build - June 2008

Pete

Jim Ledger

06-25-2008, 06:49 AM

No lofting this week while the spars get some varnish.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Varnishingspars.jpg

Duncan Gibbs

06-25-2008, 08:30 AM

Oi! Jimbo! I'll call you 'Mr Profitlossaccountingbookwhatcanbuildamazingstuffou ttawood!' Howzat sound? :D

This is such a cool thread, as well as inspiring: I hope to be in a position to start my build within six months, (here's hoping anyhoo) and I shall endevour to return the flavour! Mine will be just a teensy bit simpler, however... Just a teensy bit... :p

Jolly good show old chap!

Please continue Sir....

Off to Don's Melonseed thread... Give it a bump! :)

Jim Ledger

06-25-2008, 09:04 AM

Oi! Jimbo! I'll call you 'Mr Profitlossaccountingbookwhatcanbuildamazingstuffou ttawood!' Howzat sound? :D

Eh? I can't hear you, the saw's running.:rolleyes:

Here's that gaff from a few posts previous. the original dimensions were 4 x 6", twenty four feet long. I cut the ends off because I need nineteen foot six. Turns out the spar was a box, hollow in the center. I sawed it down the middle and ran the two halves thru the planer, removing the center section, and most of the old fastener holes. The remaining two by four slabs were then glued together to make a nice solid stick, ready for tapering and eight-siding.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Gaff2.jpg

Duncan Gibbs

06-25-2008, 06:45 PM

Eh? I can't hear you, the saw's running.:rolleyes:

Mr Jim (as someone from the Sub-continent might call you :p) I do hope you're wearing some form of ear protection?? And not the kind that can only protect you from silly names! :D

I see in the shot of the varnished gaff, there's another stick with end painted white in the background. Is this the boom? I presume it is since the mast would be a fat monster, (I pressume again). Are they the original jaws or something you knocked-up yerself?

BTW, how's that old bandsaw?

I know... Questions, question... Can't a fella get any work done around here??? :rolleyes:

Jim Ledger

06-26-2008, 04:48 AM

I see in the shot of the varnished gaff, there's another stick with end painted white in the background. Is this the boom?

Are they the original jaws or something you knocked-up yerself?

BTW, how's that old bandsaw?

G'day Duncan.:)

Yes, that's the boom, the mast is in the boat, more or less permanently.

As far as I know those are original sticks, but they've had their ends cut off and new wood clothespinned on. The jaws are new.

The old bandsaw is still sitting where I left it, in the way, with nothing done so far. However, I did just pick up a bag of sand for the sand blaster with the intention of getting to work on it, which counts for something, right?

Duncan Gibbs

06-26-2008, 06:36 AM

Contemplation counts for something too ya know! Geeez, that takes up at least half my time! :D

Carry on...

Robmill0605

06-29-2008, 07:40 AM

Hi Jim,

Great progress, looking forward to contiue to look over your shoulder.
I'd vote for keeping it all in one thread.

P.L.Lenihan

07-22-2008, 04:37 AM

Bump, just so this one does not get buried:D

TTL

Bill Perkins

07-22-2008, 10:45 AM

Lord Jim ; I humbly suggest you follow Rod's lead and create separate ,numbered threads ; each with links to the others . One huge thread will blow out the Dialup people, and will be slow to load and use for everyone . Love the gaff jaws .

ChrisBen

07-22-2008, 01:23 PM

One huge thread will blow out the Dialup people, and will be slow to load and use for everyone . Bill, separate threads don't make the pages load any faster. There are 50 posts to each page and you only load one page at a time so it doesn't matter if a thread has 100 pages. For people like you and me with Dial-up you should go to your User CP, click on "Edit Options", scroll down to "Thread Display Options" and make sure there is no check mark in "Show Images (including attached images and images in [IMG] code)" Then pages load faster and you can click on each image link as you read along.

Bill Perkins

07-22-2008, 02:45 PM

That's interesting Chris . I was dial up for a long time . But separate threads have fewer pages ,so they do load appreciably faster don't they ? I may have misinterpreted some problem on this forum in the past that seemed to make long threads load slower . Turning off the images on all threads probably isn't the way I'll go .

Duncan Gibbs

07-22-2008, 05:47 PM

But separate threads have fewer pages ,so they do load appreciably faster don't they ?

No! Each page loads seperately the page numbers at the top and bottom of each page are merely links to the other pages. That a thread may have one or one thousand pages means diddly to how fast each page loads: Thta, my dear Bill, is dependant on how many images are in a particular page. Pages with text only will load much faster that one with images and much much faster than one with lots of images.

Jim? You done anyfink again? Or have you got some other fantabulous piece of joinery to do on some polished jewel of contemporary architecture taking up all you time? Move the bandsaw yet?? :D

Jim Ledger

07-22-2008, 06:03 PM

Jim? You done anyfink :D

Nahhhh, done fakawl, me owd china plate.

Duncan Gibbs

07-22-2008, 06:37 PM

:D:D:D:D:D

I hereby anoint you Sir Ledgo! Rise Sir Ledgo, you are now a Vegemite Muncher like us down 'ere!! (Shane's lesons in 'Strine has obviously payed off!)

Jim Ledger

07-22-2008, 07:05 PM

Fanks, Danc'n. S'right 'andsome, at is n'awl

Owyagerrinon, then, y'self?

Paul Girouard

07-22-2008, 07:15 PM

There are 50 posts to each page and you only load one page at a time so it doesn't matter if a thread has 100 pages.

For people like you and me with Dial-up you should go to your User CP, click on "Edit Options", scroll down to "Thread Display Options" and make sure there is no check mark in "Show Images (including attached images and images in [IMG] code)" Then pages load faster and you can click on each image link as you read along.

You also can select the display MODE in the the user control panel , select Linear , and then a bit further down in that section you can select "the first page " to show as few a the newest 5 posts , or you can select the newest 10 , and so on , that along with deselecting images should make each page load faster.

Thread Display Options

Visible Post ElementsYou have the option to show or hide various elements of messages, which may be of use to users on slow internet connections, or who want to remove extraneous clutter from posts.

Show Signatures

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Thread Display ModeHere you can choose the display mode for threads.

For a full explanation of the modes, please view this help page (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_thread_display ).

Linear - Oldest First Linear - Newest First Threaded Hybrid Thread Display Mode: Number of Posts to Show Per PageUse this option to set the number of posts to show in a thread before splitting the display into multiple pages.

Use Forum Default Show 5 Posts Per Page Show 10 Posts Per Page Show 20 Posts Per Page Show 30 Posts Per Page Show 40 Posts Per Page Number of Posts to Show Per Page: Default Thread Age Cut OffYou may specify a time period from which to display threads.

Threads older than the age you specify will not be shown.

Use Forum Default Show threads from last day Show threads from last 2 days Show threads from last week Show threads from last 10 days Show threads from last 2 weeks Show threads from last month Show threads from last 45 days Show threads from last 2 months Show threads from last 75 days Show threads from last 100 days Show threads from last year Show all threads Default Thread Age Cut Off:

These options only work IF your "logged on" to the forum , just like the ignore options , friends options / functions .

That page didn't C&P properly but if you clic on the user control panel and poke around / look in that section you'll see this page and can make the forum work better / faster for you.

Good luck , good thread Sir :rolleyes: James :D

Duncan Gibbs

07-22-2008, 07:46 PM

Fanks, Danc'n. S'right 'andsome, at is n'awl

Owyagerrinon, then, y'self?

Well mate! Knock me down with a bloody feather! The farkin epoxy filla dint cure propa-like!! Farkin crap was ballin up as I waz sandin turnin the whole bastard into a complete ballsup! Fark me dead but the bloody deck just got more "patina" than I waz countin' on!! Just hadta hit the bugga with the heat gun'n try'n hurry the bastard up, come back in'ere and ava good ol' grumble!!! :mad::(

Strewth mate!! Bloody strewth!!! :rolleyes:

Paul Girouard

07-22-2008, 07:52 PM

Well mate! Knock me down with a bloody feather! The farkin epoxy filla dint cure propa-like!! Farkin crap was ballin up as I waz sandin turnin the whole bastard into a complete ballsup! Fark me dead but the bloody deck just got more "patina" than I waz countin' on!! Just hadta hit the bugga with the heat gun'n try'n hurry the bastard up, come back in'ere and ava good ol' grumble!!! :mad::(

Strewth mate!! Bloody strewth!!! :rolleyes:

You guys cross over with Errass-be-dragon or what:rolleyes::confused:

Duncan Gibbs

07-22-2008, 07:55 PM

He's the one what talks funny in'e!? :D

Mrleft8

07-23-2008, 07:32 AM

An entire catboat build would produce numbers rivaling Lefty's Pub, but with actual content.

Eh-HEM!!!!!
I'm for keeping it as one BTW..... (Mutter, mumble, grumble "Actual content"! HmmPFF!) ;)

gmarlow

08-05-2008, 07:00 AM

Jim,
Congratulations on the project. I started the Ted Brewer Cap Cod Catboat (21ft) five years ago. I can only work summers when I am home in France but progress is good . I have had excellent feed back from Ted Brewer on questions posed - although I must admit I didnt yet decide how to attach the center board to the pennant!! It is kind of reassuring to see someone else with the same doubts and fears but overcoming them.
I have put some photos on the following site.

http://www.PictureTrail.com/marlows
there a a few file names starting with "Bagor"
I do have a question - have you got names of sailmakers in the US ?

cheers

Guy Marlow

Jim Ledger

08-12-2008, 04:24 AM

Congratulations on your beatiful boat, Guy. I'd like to talk more about it later but I'm out the door this morning. The keel timbers are arriving in an hour and there's much to do.

Try this outfit for a sail. I've never used them, but they made the sail for Genevieve, a big cat, owned by Bob Luckraft, who is quite knowledgeable about catboats and their sailing.

http://www.squeteaguesailmakers.com/

I'll try to post some pics later.

Mrleft8

08-12-2008, 07:41 AM

I used Sutton Sail Repair 1681 Barnum Ave. Stratford, CT. 06614. PH#(203) 380-0554
He did an excellent job, and was extremely reasonably priced compared with the other sail makers that I contacted. He also (as the name suggests) repairs sails.

Jim Ledger

08-12-2008, 07:54 AM

Lets get this thread back on track.:D

Here's the first of the timbers on the last leg of what must have been a long journey

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/keeltimber1.jpg

Mrleft8

08-12-2008, 08:30 AM

With any luck this is merely another stop on a continuing voyage for that stick!

Eric D

08-12-2008, 03:23 PM

Jim, that paint on the end covers the grain and well, um from this angle, yah, that is it, from this angle I can not tell exactly what species of wood you now possess. Sitka? Doug fir?

Looks to be about 32-34' if the standard double axle car trailer is 16' plus the hang on the front and back...???

Dang pretty is all I can say.

How do you plan to move/cut it up? I dare say your table saw will have a few issues with something THAT big.

ucb4ume

08-12-2008, 03:37 PM

WOW! That's some BIG WOOD, Jim.

Keep the pictures coming. I love watching the building process.

Mrleft8

08-12-2008, 05:40 PM

24/4 Angelique if I'm not mistaken...

Jim Ledger

08-12-2008, 07:56 PM

Here's a shot of both keel timbers with a Nutshell Pram thrown in for scale. 24/4 Angelique, unloaded and shifted by hand.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF5874.jpg

Paul Girouard

08-12-2008, 08:04 PM

24/4 Angelique, unloaded and shifted by manual means.

Oy my, well your, aching back:eek: Hope those cinder blocks don't disappear into the ground :D

Dave Gray

08-12-2008, 08:30 PM

The Nutshell looks like a toy boat. Some impressive timber!

raycon

08-12-2008, 10:01 PM

Is that the new "Ground Zero" for the boat build?
Be safe.

Eric D

09-23-2008, 03:12 PM

Well????

I was hoping to see fresh sawn timbers....

soon?

Jim Ledger

09-23-2008, 06:33 PM

Thanks for your interest, Eric, and bear with me for a little while longer. I'm taking care of a few things first, in order to be able to give the beginning of the project my undivided attention.

Inshore

09-23-2008, 08:11 PM

I have a rookie question, if that's ok.

I understand the lofting piece, but how do you get your frame patterns, if you will, from the lines on the floor?

Jim Ledger

09-23-2008, 09:01 PM

I have a rookie question, if that's ok.

I understand the lofting piece, but how do you get your frame patterns, if you will, from the lines on the floor?

Hello. Rookie questions, not a problem. It's the other kind that worries me.:D

My friend Robmill covered just that in a recent thread, and did a fine job of explaining the process. I'll be getting to that, one of these days, but, meanwhile, have a look here....

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82146

Inshore

09-24-2008, 06:31 AM

Interesting. So, the "popsicle" sticks point to lofting points, and then you slip the pattern material under the points and fair the curve?

Jim Ledger

10-18-2008, 05:15 PM

I want to get the keel timbers roughly cut and inside before long, because the weather can be uncooperative this time of year. To that end, I'm making a set of patterns for the keel, deadwood, sternpost, rudder, centerboard, shaft log and a template of the engine profile.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Keelpatterns1.jpg

Jim Ledger

10-18-2008, 05:35 PM

I understand the lofting piece, but how do you get your frame patterns, if you will, from the lines on the floor?

I think that this is the easiest method. The piece of plywood in the picture is a part of the keel pattern, the forward end. The nails seen sticking in the plywood were originally tapped onto the lines on the lofting. The plywood was then carefully placed over the nail heads, withput disturbing their position. Walking on the plywood transferred nails to the pattern, or at least made a dent. A batten can now be bent around the marks left by the nails. Where the nails are far apart a straight line is drawn.

You want to use thin nails with thin sharp heads. Drywall nails are good. These are 3d lath nails which have a very small, sharp head and work well. Don't look for them in Home Depot, however.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/pickinguplines.jpg

Banjo

10-19-2008, 05:42 AM

Lookin good Mr Jim, very impressed with that big ol hunk a wood ya got there fer the keel n deadwood ol mate... that musta taken a bit of huntin down to procure.

Ian McColgin

10-19-2008, 07:17 AM

Ahoy Guy - Allow me to echoe Jim's remarks about Squeteague. I may have mentioned them to you in another forum before I realized you were in France. How's the ballast coming? Anyway, Squeteague uses a German fabric that manages to retain stability without the UV-vulnerable heat treatment that stabilizes conventional dacron sailcloth. So it's nicer to handle and lasts far longer. You may find it more affordable on the Continent buy you'd still be hard pressed to find anyone who understands the gaff rig and especially the catboat better than Squeteague.

G'luck

Duncan Gibbs

10-20-2008, 03:01 AM

Can't wait to see the setting up of the keel and molds Jim! Rightside up or upside down??

Good info on the sailcloth too: I've a wee cat in the pipeline!

Jim Ledger

10-26-2008, 02:04 PM

Rightside up or upside down??

Rightside up, Duncan. But, I'm not there yet.:rolleyes:

Here's a day that I've been looking forward to. The day when an actual part of the boat gets cut. Maybe I'm pushing it a bit, as the patterns are still not complete, but I'd like to get some of the big pieces roughed out. Here's the keel timber pattern, ready to be shifted about to find a likely looking place to cut.

I like to think that Dave and Ken would have enjoyed seeing this.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/keelpatternontimber.jpg

Jim Ledger

10-26-2008, 04:27 PM

Here's the keel timber, roughly cut out of the flitch. There was a few checks in the ends and a little bit of sapwood on the right hand edge, but the piece, as a whole, is a very nice piece of wood. There was some tension in the piece that caused the kerf to spread on the final pass. The two pieces were not moved at all, the distance between them is the amount they split apart.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Roughcutkeeltimber.jpg

MiddleAgesMan

10-26-2008, 08:27 PM

That's some serious timber, Jim. Do ya' think the wee cat will float with that hanging from the bottom? ;)

Jim Ledger

10-30-2008, 07:14 AM

In the boathouse, and looking very promising.:)

Next job, cut off some of the excess and let it sit for a few weeks. Seeing the way it sprung when ripped, makes me want to sneak up on the final dimensions. Take off a bit, see if it moves, take off some more, wait a few days. There's plenty else to do, anyway.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/keeltimberinboathouse.jpg

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )

10-30-2008, 07:55 AM

Cool !!!!!!

Paul Girouard

10-30-2008, 08:16 AM

Did you use a Big Foot deal on a skilsaw or a Makita beam saw?

I'm sure Dave and Ken where watching ;)

P.L.Lenihan

10-31-2008, 02:46 AM

Mr.Ledger,
Fine beautiful stuff you've done there! I'm sorta catching up with things so pardon me if it has already been stated;does the C/B go through the keel and if so, how are you scheming to cut the slot. Also, what kind of winter temperatures can you expect in your bowshed and can you heat it? Big stuff like what you have may be inclined to shape shift a fair deal with big temp/humidity swings.

Continued hope and courage with her Mr.Ledger!

Peter, aka Tenner

Jim Ledger

10-31-2008, 07:25 AM

Joe, uh, huh.:cool:

Paul, two saws. A worm drive Skill for the first half, then a Makita beam saw for the rest. Five or six passes, very dusty, like Spanish Cedar, but not a pleasant in the throat.. The Makita was on Craigslist and should pay for itself sawing up these few timbers. After that I don't know what I'll do with it. Maybe bury it in the shed for my heirs to find... BTW, you'd like this timber, it's like Ipe, but not quite so soft.

Tenner, what are you talking about courage? It's about cutting up a piece of nice wood, not making a speech in front of a crowd of strangers, or sanding out twenty five miles of epoxy fillets. That's the sort of thing you need courage for. As for the centerboard slot, my scheme is to bore some holes and chisel it out. I'll worry about that when I get there. The temperature here gets down to the teens (F) which makes for some chilly starts, but there's a nice wood stove that gets it quite pleasant by eleven thirty or so. Good to see you back.

Here's this mornings view. Shortened up by three feet and narrowed by a couple of inches. The whole thing is coated with Anchorseal to stabilize and reduce checking and movement.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Anchorsealonkeeltimber.jpg

Eric D

10-31-2008, 01:25 PM

Jim,

that is truly an impressive timber there.

Was there much thought to laminating something instead so you have something that theoretically is more dimensionally stable?

I have seen some wood darn near curl up as the tension is relieved, but never in a flitch that large. Wow!!

If you have a chance, snap a pic of your beam saw please. thanks.

Keep up the good work, there are several of us all watching.

Dave Gray

10-31-2008, 01:38 PM

You just can't post too many pictures or write too many words about building a boat. That is what attracts me most about this forum. Plus all the good people, of course.

Jim Ledger

10-31-2008, 05:33 PM

You just can't post too many pictures or write too many words about building a boat.

Well, alright, then.:D

Patrick, thanks for the advice. I think, though, that there's a difference between the tendency for a large piece of wood to move when cut, and the ingrown tension is released, and the movement due to the gain or loss of moisture. The Anchorseal will slow the loss of moisture and stabilise the timber in the second instance, but have little effect on the first.

Eric, I've given some thought to different solutions to the keel problem. The Angelique is competitive in price to White Oak and is in some respects a superior wood, notably, its rot and worm resistance. Its commonly used for keels in Caribbean waters, so any problems are not insurmountable. Laminating up a large piece of timber, especially of White Oak, is expensive, problematic, and a lot of work. Then, you get to worry about it for evermore.

Here's this evenings episode, the sternpost, being cut out of the offcut from the keel.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/roughingoutsternpost.jpg

Resawing, note the look of concentration....:rolleyes:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Jimresawsthesternpost2.jpg

...and joy, as the cut is complete.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Jimresawsthesternpost.jpg

Ethan

10-31-2008, 05:41 PM

who's the young guy in the pictures?

;)

Notice any excessively abnormal wear/effect on your blades and tools as a result of the Angelique?

Great thread - a true WBF legend in the making! You bet Dave and Ken are watching...with smiles, I'm sure.:cool:

Tom Wilkinson

10-31-2008, 08:48 PM

You got Al Pacino to resaw your wood??!!!!!!

MiddleAgesMan

11-01-2008, 08:29 AM

You got Al Pacino to resaw your wood??!!!!!!

ROTFLMFAO!!!

The Legend knows all them movie stars but Al is the only one of 'em willing to lend a hand. ;)

Jim Ledger

11-22-2008, 04:33 PM

Seems like everybody's working on keels these days. Alex Lowe's got that beautiful piece of Fir to carve up, Ed Harrow's taking it one step at a time while Lagspiler's knocking them out by the half dozen, lit only by whale oil lamps in the Norwegian semi-dark,

Meanwhile, up North, somewhere, Tenner's sanding out the last hundred yards of epoxy fillets, no doubt soothing his burning fingertips in cold saucerfulls of Molsons Ale.

Where's Jim while all this is going on? Fiddling around with some patterny bits? Making some cabinetty things for the last of the big spenders?

No more.

Let's get to it, then. Tomorrow, first thing, for sure.

For the time being...the keels tipped on its side. The pattern applied....

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Shapingkeel1.jpg

...and the first tentative cut made.

and let me just say this...you know how some folks like to get all poetic about the smell of freshly worked timber? Well, this stuff smells BAD...kind of like diapers, if I remember correctly (it's been a while). And somehow, that makes me feel good. Any wood that could smell that bad must have some mighty disagreeable qualities for the lower life forms.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Shapingkeel2.jpg

Duncan Gibbs

11-22-2008, 04:55 PM

Ahhhh!! The eloquations of fellow collegue in the CBBND (Crazy Boat Building Nut Department that is)!! I can see soliloquies of Tenner-esque proportions eminating from this thread as it ferments over the next few years.

Stinky wood ya say!! :D:D

How doth thine castings proceed my dear Jim? (Maybe you could send Tenner in the right direction for nav' lights???)

Alex Low

11-23-2008, 04:00 PM

Jim,

Awesome! Is your keel slab sided?

Alex

Jim Ledger

11-23-2008, 06:11 PM

Duncan, I'm hoping to try some casting this week. we'll see, though, a lot of things have to come together first.

Hey, Alex. The keel is slab sided, only rolling into the stem sides very near the bow. There is going to be a lot of taper put on the ends of that piece, three inches wide at the sternpost and four at the stem. The centerboard area stays the full width of the timber.

This is the keel with the bottom profile routed on the line, as deep as the bit could be made to go. The top profile has been lightly routed to mark the line. Most of the waste is going to be removed using a skilsaw.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Shapingkeel3.jpg

Kerfing the waste quickly removes a lot of the "overburden".
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Shapingkeel4.jpg

P.L.Lenihan

11-24-2008, 01:31 AM

MERCY! That is one lovely big chunk of stinky wood Mr.Ledger.What I wouldn't give just to be a second pair of hands,sorta like a gopher, while you manhandle this stuff around in the weeks and months to come. I'm really good at holding things and gluing things but never let me near the power tools...scary stuff! I could also keep you well hydrated with some good Canadian hop juice or Port(if it got too cold!).
Alright,enough of my foolishness. Wonderful pictures,excellent execution and a grand inspiration to many! I only wish I was half as able!

Keep a good thought,Mr.Ledger!

Peter,aka,Tenner

Mrleft8

11-24-2008, 08:25 AM

Nice! :D

Jim Ledger

11-30-2008, 12:54 PM

Here ya go, Duncan.:D

Adzing off some of the waste.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Shapingkeel6.jpg

The bottom of the keel, cleaned up. The routed section provided a good guide for squaring off and cleaning up the bottom face. After adzing off, the surface was hand planed to finish.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Shapingkeel5.jpg

Mrleft8

11-30-2008, 06:06 PM

You got Toshi Odate hiding behind a curtain there or something Jim? ;)

Duncan Gibbs

12-01-2008, 04:12 AM

Here ya go, Duncan.:D

Make mine extra stinky Jim!! :D:D:D

Great stuff mate: Now you've got a keel and some spars... All you have to do is build the bit inbetween!! Looking forward to more Jim! :)

Eric D

12-05-2008, 03:04 PM

UPDATES???

This is building time right? I mean I can't see you out sailing a whole lot can you? LOL

Hope you have a Merry Christmas Jim, just wondering where you are on this project.

Emma56

12-05-2008, 04:51 PM

Jim How long are the stringers that the Sabb mounts on?The paper that came with my Sabb said aprox three times the length of the engine.! Does that seem a bit long to you ?:)

Jim Ledger

12-05-2008, 06:46 PM

Jim How long are the stringers that the Sabb mounts on?The paper that came with my Sabb said aprox three times the length of the engine.! Does that seem a bit long to you ?:)

Good one, Lefty.:D Next time I see Toshio, we'll have a laugh.

Duncan, if you want to smell something really bad, try burning the shavings in the stove. My wife says, "You smell like Brussel Sprouts", and she doesn't mean in a good way. BTW those spars aren't for this boat, they belong to the Sea Rover.

Larry, it's not as heavy as it once was.;)

Eric, things aren't working out as planned. I had hoped to be unemployed by now and working on the boat full time. But, work keeps dribbling in, low-paying, time-wasting work. Who knows, though, I might still get lucky.But if you want an update, look at that last photo and imagine it without the shavings on the floor. If you want excitement, check out Tenner Lenihans build.

Charlie, I don't think that a heavily built boat with a low powered engine needs really long stringers to distribute the stresses set up by the engine. This engine will sit on beds spanning four heavy floors, a little more than the length of the engine. With the beds and floors notched together and well fastened to the keel, I can't see any problem arising. There are real limitations imposed by the shape of the hull and the engines flywheel that rule out longer beds and stringers.

Emma56

12-05-2008, 06:53 PM

Thank You Jim that is the best info I have received in along time.!!! That is the approach [ number of floors ] That I plan on. Your work looks Great !! Charlie :)

Jim Ledger

12-05-2008, 07:01 PM

Thank You Jim that is the best info I have received in along time.!!! That is the approach [ number of floors ] That I plan on. Your work looks Great !! Charlie :)

My plan is to have the engine set up on its beds and the shaft set up before setting up the molds, which should simplify a lot of the work. It'll be a lot easier working on things at waist height, out in the open, rather than fitting in the bilge with all the climbing in and out that that entails. I believe you did the same, no?

Jim Ledger

12-08-2008, 07:36 AM

Well, I did manage to roll out of bed yesterday, just long enough to cut out a couple of pieces to be going on with. Then back before the pillow got cold.

The future shaft log rests atop the soon-to-be deadwood. Now, I've just got to round up Hoss and Little Joe to pick up that bottom timber and move it inside.:rolleyes: I'll carry this here top one.:D

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood1.jpg

Robmill0605

12-08-2008, 08:16 AM

You are doing a first class job Jim, the keel looks great and I don't even want to think about what that timber cost you........:rolleyes:
The time and effort to fully loft her , and then make patterns from the lofting really shows. Great thread.

Jim Ledger

12-13-2008, 02:52 PM

Thanks, Rob.

Here's a nice inside job for a cold day....beginning the shaft log. the Sabb has a bronze tube that lines the shaft hole with the stern bearing threading on one end and the packing gland threading on the other.

The plan is to split the shaft log, rout a channel for the shaft tube, put splines on either side of the tube, then drift the two pieces in place. I'm thinking, though, that the splines might not be needed in this case, because the whole shaft assembly is a watertight unit.

Here the timber has been squared up and cut into two halves. A dado cutter has just removed most of the waste from the hole....

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Shaftlog1.jpg

Jim Ledger

12-13-2008, 03:17 PM

After the saw, a table router with a core box bit removed some more of the waste.

Here's a lucky discovery. A piece of the same pipe, ground square, acts as a scraper, removing the high spots. My original idea was to use it as a sanding block, but this is much better.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/shaftlog2.jpg

Ian McColgin

12-13-2008, 03:19 PM

The shaft tube is one piece but water could travel in the split and then along. So a stopwater or spline on each side is nice.

Finastkind.

Duncan Gibbs

12-13-2008, 03:33 PM

More of the stinky stuff eh, Jim?;):D

So it's finish keel + deadwood with shaft log, onto stem, fit the whole lot together and then cut the rabbet? Same question of Alex Low: Upside down or rightside up?

Jim Ledger

12-13-2008, 06:05 PM

Stopwaters and splines it is then, Ian.

Duncan, rightside up. The plan from here is veeerrrry misty, and I like it that way. Thinking about as far ahead as the splines in the shaft log suits me just fine. Just break the stone at your feet and don't look up at the mountain. Besides, the stem is still growing....somewhere.

Here ya go then, marking high spots with carbon paper:rolleyes:. Must be time for my Ritalin.:D

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/shaftlog3.jpg

patrick.blanchard

12-13-2008, 06:37 PM

Enjoying the view from Kansas, and learning too. Thanks for the pictures and details.

paladin

12-13-2008, 07:21 PM

That's Purty......

Mrleft8

12-14-2008, 07:46 AM

Almost a shame to hide all that work behind planking and paint..... Almost....

Emma56

12-14-2008, 09:03 AM

Nice clean work Jim !
Jim I know that this thought might be a bit down the road. But what type of deck do you plan for your boat?

Jim Ledger

12-18-2008, 07:49 AM

Jim I know that this thought might be a bit down the road. But what type of deck do you plan for your boat?

Solid Teak, Charlie, why dream of anything less? Inch and an eighth thick, caulked with Jefferys Marine Glue, over Black Locust deck beams. No plywood.

But before I get there: Angelique floors, sawn Black Locust frames, Silver Bali planks, copper riveted.

Bump;)

Eric D

12-18-2008, 12:48 PM

Jim,

thanks for the update. Please take pictures of the stopwaters and the splines. I am interested in how you do it, I have a picture in my head, but I am not so sure about it.

that wood may smell, but I bet you are pretty happy with that slab.

have a great day.

Mrleft8

12-18-2008, 07:25 PM

Black Locust? Planning on a trip up this direction sometime soon?

Jim Ledger

12-18-2008, 07:37 PM

A trip to the Black Locust Forest Primeval of central Connecticut? As a matter of fact, I've been trying to get up there for some time now, to see what can be found. Come on along if you like.

Jim Ledger

12-21-2008, 06:56 AM

patrick.blanchard

12-21-2008, 07:47 AM

Jim, can you show us the stopwaters?

Jim Ledger

12-21-2008, 08:17 AM

Sure, Patrick, will do, but I'm not there yet. To drill holes for stopwaters, the timbers need to be bolted together permanently and the rabbet, if not cut, needs to be marked on the timber, in order to put them in their proper location.

P.L.Lenihan

12-22-2008, 12:39 AM

The keel timber, laying on its side, on the lofting, with the shaft log and deadwood pattern in their respective positions. The little gap between the deadwood pattern and keel is where I took the top of the keel down an extra quarter of an inch to get into clean wood. I'll have to make the deadwood and centerboard logs wider to compensate.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/keelonlofting.jpg

This has got to be one of the better/best reasons for one to DO THE LOFTING before building the boat! With so many parts,all designed to fit perfectly, it is too easy for a builder to get carried away with ever so slight dimension changes,here and there, that ,later on,things can get out of control,parts begin not fitting and the loftingless builder begins to doubt both the designers abilities and ones own ability to properly read plans.
Excellent stuff,Mr.Ledger!If I had half the talent you possess I'd no longer be able to claim Tenner as a suitable non de plume :)

Continued success to you!

Tenner,aka Peter

Chris Coose

12-24-2008, 11:20 PM

Big Round masts
http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/954450182.html

paladin

12-25-2008, 04:38 AM

Damn...my knees hurt all over again just looking at that. My son does part time work stretching/laying carpet and he has some nifty knee pads, but my knees are too far gone.

Jim Ledger

12-26-2008, 05:29 PM

Fooled aroung with the sternpost at the end of the day. Now, back to the lofting to mark the propeller aperture and propeller shaft center line, then bore.

Unfortunately, the building site (behind my house) is miles away from the shop, so there's going to be a constant flow of parts back and forth, like this one, getting processed and adjusted.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/sternpost1.jpg

Jim Ledger

12-27-2008, 03:21 PM

The sternpost, again, pushed along just a little further, with the propeller aperture cut out, hole bored for the stern bearing, and notched for the transom.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Sternpost2.jpg

Jim Ledger

12-27-2008, 04:03 PM

Keep this up and I'll be sailing this summer.:D

Here's the front of the sternpost, grooved out for the deadwood and shaft log.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Sternpost3.jpg

Jim Ledger

12-27-2008, 04:59 PM

Can you stand one more picture?

Here's the bottom half of the shaft log keyed into the sternpost.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Sternpost4.jpg

paladin

12-27-2008, 08:38 PM

Uh! Jim.....I dunno see no room on the shaft for a zinc.........

Dave Gray

12-27-2008, 09:07 PM

The vote is in. The crowd wants more pictures.

Mrleft8

12-27-2008, 09:56 PM

No..... The vote is in. I'm petitioning Scot to ban Mssr. Ledger from posting anything until June. The man makes me ill! Flawless execution of difficult tasks, photograhed with an expert's eye. Does this man REALLY exist? Does "Jim Ledger" really exist? Is he a man, or a myth? NOTICE: Do you see any saw dust? No. These things just "appear" like some magical apparitions out of.....Dare I say it? SPACE!!!!! The guy is an ALIEN! I TELL YOU!
I've met the character who calls himself "Jim Ledger"..... I can't remember what happened for 3 days after that...... BEWARE PEOPLE!!!! BEWARE!!! ;) :D

Falcon500

12-27-2008, 10:13 PM

Very neat to see, it gives me warm fluffy feelings all over to see this :rolleyes:

I can almost see the offending red dust in a used tissue, almost taste the (as you said diapery) grit in my mouth. feel the horror as the wood literally goes off on a tangent whilst cutting.

Brings back sweet memories of boat school:p

paladin

12-28-2008, 04:22 AM

Jim...please drop me an e-mail if you have received the teak that I sent....I seem to recall something, but it may be in my head and I'm trying to keep track of all the stuff I have sent to folks as I have not received a return receipt ticket for it...too many things on my mind I guess...

Jim Ledger

12-28-2008, 10:34 AM

Chuck, check you email.

About the zinc, I think that a remotely located zinc, on the deadwood, for instance, bonded to the stern bearing with a bronze strip, will solve the problem. Any thoughts?

Lefty.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:...you wouldn't want to miss the chapter on the centerboard slot, would you? It'll be a good one and it's coming up.:D

The rest of you, thanks.:)

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )

12-28-2008, 11:33 AM

"Legend" enough with the yakity yack :rolleyes: get down to the shop and make with some sawdust and more pics, we all live for this thread ;)

Jim Ledger

12-28-2008, 05:40 PM

Thanks, Paul.

Here's a quick and dirty jig for cutting the mortise in the top of the keel to accept the sternpost tenon. The jig is a snug fit and the mortise will be the same. The pattern bit should be able to cut at least half the depth needed and the other half will be done by hand, using a brace and bit and chisel.

More on that later.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Sternpost5.jpg

Drilling the stern bearing bolt holes on a Newton dowel boring machine. This is a neat old machine that comes in handy from time to time. The two bits can be moved in relation to each other, and the table raises and lowers. Drilling is done by stepping on a pedal which moves the table into the spinning bits. It won't drill all the way, but it starts the holes nicely, which is the important part.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Sternpost7.jpg

paladin

12-28-2008, 06:30 PM

A heavy bronze strap should work just fine...I sorta figgered that's what you wuz gonna do anyway.

P.L.Lenihan

12-29-2008, 01:35 AM

For the nimble thumbed amongst us, would it be possible to see these new parts laid down on the lofting floor for a clearer visualization of them thar parts and their relationship to each other......pretty please....:)

Your evil twin in fun,

Tenner

p.s. I've been having nightmares about your surgical precision with wood. Any remedies?

Duncan Gibbs

12-29-2008, 06:10 AM

p.s. I've been having nightmares about your surgical precision with wood. Any remedies?

More of these Tenner! More of these...

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1913/10058894/20154496/338190524.jpg

Carry on with your "alien" rituals Jim! :D

Jim Ledger

12-29-2008, 02:01 PM

p.s. I've been having nightmares about your surgical precision with wood. Any remedies?

You want me to...make a mistake...is that it, Tenner, is that what you're asking? Would that make you feel better, help you sleep? Cause I will, if thats what it takes, you can count on me. The chair's ready any time you say so. Would you like to see a little boo-boo that I can fix with a dutchman, or, maybe, a whopper where I have to start all over again? Your call.;):D

A couple of bits to use for the deadwood, all ready to cut too short, if you like. I must be getting old,though, cause I had a bit of a struggle lifting up that big 'un onto the table.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood1-1.jpg

Robmill0605

12-29-2008, 03:03 PM

Your block plane looks like a kids toy on that thing.:D

That's one hunk of wood! Keep it up, looks great.

Jim Ledger

12-29-2008, 03:27 PM

Cleaning them up with a 60 grit belt.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood2.jpg

Jim Ledger

12-29-2008, 04:32 PM

Stacked up, planed to an even thickness and edges jointed square, the deadwood is starting to redemble part of an actual boat. There's a lot left to trim to final dimensions, and a lot of wood left to remove in shaping, but this is kind of encouraging.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood3.jpg

Alex Low

12-29-2008, 05:58 PM

Jeez Jim...

you are making some of us look bad with all this work going on...

Alex

Raka025

12-29-2008, 06:05 PM

Jim Ledger

12-29-2008, 06:49 PM

you are making some of us look bad with all this work going on...

Just trying not to fall too far behind you, Alex.;)

ChrisBen

12-29-2008, 10:29 PM

25' Brewer catboat "Sugarbritches" :eek::D:D

P.L.Lenihan

12-30-2008, 04:56 AM

You want me to...make a mistake...is that it, Tenner, is that what you're asking?

Mais non,Monsieur Ledger! Deez eez not da question asking I am.Non!Non! Non! I am looking to azker if eet eez possible to show us how eet eez you make such... err...aaa...how you engleash say....precise cuts..yes...Forra exzampelle, when youz cuts wood yes, do youz make da blade of dee sawz come cloze to dee line or really cut into dee line you maked wit dee crayon a plomb?.
Maybe my english is doing good yes butt eet eez les petite ficelles du métier hoping I am fora you to share wit us;you know,dee "tricks offa dee trade" dans ton jargon.

Fora diss question offa"mistakes", you musta remember Monsieur Ledger dat mistakes are lika dee sheet offa dee angels;Somer times eet justa falls from dee sky even when no clouds exists.
Voila,c'est toute!
Merci mille fois pour les photo exemplaire!!!

M.Dix-Pouce :D:D

P.L.Lenihan

12-30-2008, 05:02 AM

More of these Tenner! More of these...

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1913/10058894/20154496/338190524.jpg

:D

You're a fine one you are,Mr.Gibbs but it's winter up here ya know....time for fortified wines or strong spirits.That stuff you're showing will just explode if left in my outdoor"cooler".

Cheers!

Tenner

Jim Ledger

12-30-2008, 10:03 AM

Forra exzampelle, when youz cuts wood yes, do youz make da blade of dee sawz come cloze to dee line or really cut into dee line you maked wit dee crayon a plomb?.!

M.Dix-Pouce :D:D

Well, Dix-Pouce, I like de, how you say, Mageek Markiar, and then I splits the line with the saw, like so. Tres bon.

Anyhoo, here's the picture you asked for, everything in its respective place on the lofting.

The immediate aim here is to fit the lower deadwood, the piece above the keel and below the shaft log. The bottom surface of the deadwood is jointed flat by machine, so it's going to be the reference surface. the top of the keel should be fairly flat at this point, but will have any high spots planed off to make a tight joint with the deadwood. The top edge of the deadwood is high at this point and must be worked down to a point that puts the shaft log centerline in its correct position. Then, the aft end of the deadwood can be marked and cut to fit against the sternpost.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood6.jpg

P.L.Lenihan

12-31-2008, 05:04 AM

johngsandusky

12-31-2008, 11:31 AM

Jim, great thread, amazing work. Makes me proud to share an island with you.
I did n otice that your hair actually looks darker than I remember. I think boatbuilding is younging you :)

Jim Ledger

12-31-2008, 11:46 AM

Thanks for the photo Mr.Ledger! If I am understanding you correctly, the keel and stern post are shaped to their final dimensions and the deadwood parts are then trimmed to finish fit tight into the "corner" created by the stern post and keel.Will you also be using stop-waters along the shaft log seams,inside of where the rabbet line passes or is this assembly epoxied together without drifts? I know precious little about wood types but it looks to my eye from here that your deadwood members,shaft log and stern post have been given a coat of something like an oil.Is this to stabilize the wood during the building period or is it just the natural oils in the wood making it look that way?

And finally, is it a Black Magic Marker.....:) I can see where owning some big stationary machines goes a long way toward attaining precision surfaces almost on the first pass.

Your appreciative fool in training,

Tenner,aka Peter

Yes, Mr. Lenihan, a black one. Accept no substitute.

The use of heavy, precision woodworking machinery in the building of boats has a long and glorious history and I intend to use mine to their full capacity. The quicker you can flatten boards and square the edges, the sooner you can get to the more demanding tasks at hand. But first pass? I wish you could have been here and watched me putting that piece through that sander. Thin it down a quarter of an inch at twenty thousandths per pass, how many passes is that? And each time, carefully feeding it in, running around the other side, catching it coming out the other end, old knees trembling now, carrying it back to point A (please Lord, don't let me slip carrying this damn thing, don't let them tremblin' little leg-bones snap like dry twigs under the strain), flip it over and repeat. Piece of cake, really.

Well, Peter, don't get too far ahead of me with the questions, cause I haven't figured it all out yet. A lot of times, things are easier to do when you get there than you had imagined they might be, so I try not to over-think things to come. I find that an empty head helps with the Zen aspect of boatbuilding, as well as being a distinct advantage in everyday life. "I'll deal with it when I get there, if I absolutely have to, maybe"

That's shellac on the nicer looking pieces, and Anchorseal on the keel, both to retard drying as much as possible. Looks nice, no?

Have a Happy New Year, everyone.

Jim Ledger

12-31-2008, 11:51 AM

I think boatbuilding is younging you :)

I'm only thirty-five, John Why would I want to be younger?:D

Come for a sail next spring.

Dave Gray

12-31-2008, 12:36 PM

Ha! We've all watched TV wood working shows and we know all it takes is one pass by an expert craftsman to get finish quality results, disclaimers to the contrary. :D

This is a wonderful thread. Thank you for the photo essay, please keep it up.

Happy new year!

Eric D

12-31-2008, 02:23 PM

Jim, thanks for the updates.

I have to tell you I was looking at a resaw machine that Grizzly makes, it even has the return feed table that is powerfed. Wow, for only 24K it seems like a steal if you would be cutting timbers like you are playing with often. My knees ache just thinking about all those trips around the sander.

Awesome stuff, keep at it, thank very much for sharing all this with us. I do appreciate it.

Happy New Year!!

P.L.Lenihan

01-01-2009, 03:19 AM

Ah yes,empty headedness,my usual chronic happy state of mind,except in dreams,of course! :) Them leg bones may need sistering or perhaps a nicely scarfed fix(pick me!pick me! I'm good with epoxy!) if things get any worse Mr.Ledger:)

I like the shellac idea to retard drying and began thinking(oh!oh!) whether I might need to do the same with my sipo staving,while it is getting installed and waiting for finish applications later on.Based on your experience and considering my "shop conditions", would it be advisible to seal the un-finished sipo or would that just be over-kill since most of the staving is well bedded in epoxy? The un-bedded sections measure 3 " across by 3/8" thick.
I'm even toying now with the idea of applying the first coats of finish cut by about 50% to get good penetration.
At any rate, your considered thoughts would be appreciated as the boat yard will open again on the 5th of January and I'm itchin' something fierce to get back at it:)

Thanks,

Peter

johngsandusky

01-01-2009, 08:12 AM

Thanks Jim, let's get together. I'd love to visit you and Sea Rover again.
I've stopped working on Captain Tom, but some good candidates are interested in continuing her repairs.
I bought an Alden Ketch, I plan to have it here by june.

Jim Ledger

01-01-2009, 09:24 AM

Happy New Year from us at the Boathouse to All of You.:)

Peter, if you haven't sanded the woodwork, wait till you're all done, then sand. That way, if you ding the woodwork, you'll have a chance to sand it out. I wouldn't worry about shrinkage on those small pieces, but then again, I wouldn't have epoxied them up solid, when a couple of finish nails and a few dabs of construction adhesive would prevent their premature departure from their intended final resting place.;)

John, there's no better time to plan the Spring Season than when we're scraping our windshields and spreading rock salt. I've got to see the new boat. I only wish that I had time to help sail it back.

Todays Piece of the Puzzle. I know it's like watching paint dry, but if I've got to do it then the least you can do is look at the pictures. Only fair, right?
This is the assembly, as it stands, that's been consuming most of the remains of my mental capacity for the last four months, not unlike when your computer scans itself, and you're waiting....waiting....well, you know. The aft end of the deadwood has been cut and this is a trial fit with an acceptable result. Now, with the correct angle established, a tongue gets cut to fit the sternpost. Don't try to figure it out, I'll post a picture.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood8.jpg

A different view of the same scene. An astute reader who'se been following closely might notice the top of the shaft log sitting pretty near the shaft centerline drawn on the lofting. This is a good sign.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood7.jpg

Mrleft8

01-01-2009, 10:30 AM

Damn..... Are you actually going to sail this thing, or put it in an art museum? ;)
Happy New Year Jim!

Jim Ledger

01-01-2009, 10:39 AM

"Just nail it up there, willya, Ledger, and get a move on!"

Yeah, you wish. If only it were as easy as that.

After happily forging ahead on these easy pieces, it's time to backtrack. Back to the keel itself, which, so far, has no centerline marked. And, as we all know, you have to mark the centerline before you can build the deadwood. How can you build the deadwood if you haven't marked the centerline?

So, the next brick in the wall is to jack the keel up and roll it over, then, apply a pattern of the profile...(astute readers might notice that the pattern seems off center, however, this is just an optical illusion)...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood9.jpg

Jim Ledger

01-01-2009, 12:24 PM

...aaaand the taper of the keel, marked on the bottom with a router cut. You can see from this, how much more material has yet to be removed before the Thing of Beauty is revealed.

But, thats a job for another day. Today, it's enough to have marked it out and crossed the bridge of no return.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood10.jpg

Jim Ledger

01-01-2009, 05:22 PM

Jim, you ain't going bald yet aren't ya?
I see lotsa head stratchin' going on....

Bald? You've got the wrong catboater there, Larry, and no head-scratching going on either. Maybe a contemplative chin-stroking between puffing on the pipe and petting the dog, but no head-scratching, definitely, none.

Gets chilly quick when the sun goes down. Dark, too. Got a bit done today. Not as much as I'd like, but any progress is a good thing and not f***ing up in any major way earns a drink and a sigh of relief afterwards.

Establishing the keel centerline has set the stage for two important events. The first is being able to cut the mortise for the sternpost, which will allow the whole deadwood construction to proceed. The second is a more difficult mortise, the centerboard slot. Seven feet long, an inch and a quarter wide, and the full depth of the keel, it promises to be a good time.

So, here's the starting point. The keel in the way of the centerboard trunk is parallel-sided, so establishing a flat side is crucial to laying out the slot. Here, a straight flat has been routed on the keel as a guide, indicating the wood to be removed.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Centerboardslot1.jpg

A series of router slots, adjusted for depth to coincide with the flat, establishes the plane that will become the side of the keel.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Centerboardslot2.jpg

An adze is being used to remove the bulk of the waste, to be followed by planing. The sawdust and chips are for you, Lefty.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Centerboadrslot3.jpg

Mrleft8

01-02-2009, 07:55 AM

"An adze is being used to remove the bulk of the waste, to be followed by planing. The sawdust and chips are for you, Lefty."
Thank you Jim.... :D

Eric D

01-02-2009, 12:39 PM

Jim Ledger

01-02-2009, 05:20 PM

Jim,

I am curious why you did not just continue to use the router to take the excess wood out instead of the adze? It doesn't look like you had all that much more to take and I am sure you have some jigs laying around? Or was it to use a old tool that has been sitting around too long? LOL, Thanks for the updates, loving them.

The router did a good job cutting a series of grooves but routing the bulk of the waste would have been an unpleasant job, so I chose too use the adze, which is a very pleasant and effective tool to use in this case.

Jumping back a step, here is the aft end of the deadwood with the tongue cut to fit the slot in the sternpost. Todays little piece of the puzzle.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Deadwood12.jpg

Duncan Gibbs

01-02-2009, 06:17 PM

Jim,
In the photo above.. What did you apply on the wood itself, is it Linseed Oil?

To answer that question one only has to scroll up:

That's shellac on the nicer looking pieces, and Anchorseal on the keel, both to retard drying as much as possible. Looks nice, no?

Have a Happy New Year, everyone.

Happy new year to you too Jim!

Nice fit of joinery;)

Better than having a mental fit over joinery eh!? :D

Jim Ledger

01-03-2009, 03:33 PM

The flat side of the keel. from the previous pictures, has been planed smooth and a coat of shellac applied. This wood is extremely dulling to blades, a sharp plane blade is good for a few minutes only before it needs re-sharpening.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Centerboardslot4.jpg

With the side of the keel straight and true, the centerboard slot can be laid out for cutting. The traditional way would be to drill a series of holes through the keel and then clean out the waste with a saw and chisel. I'm going to use a router with a jig to start the slot from the bottom and top. Progressively deeper cuts should enable me to rout about two and a half inches deep, leaving only seven inches of the most inaccessible wood to be removed in the time-honored fashion. Like they say, "if you finish before the end of the day, kid, you can go home early."

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Centerboardslot5.jpg

Half an inch deep, only eleven and a half to go. Looks good so far.:D

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Centerboardslot3.jpg