linseed oil, turpentine and pine tar

[Willem]

A friend of mine is fooling arround with a traditional mixture of linseed oil, turpentine and Scandinavian pine tar. But he doesn’t seem to get a nice binding with the tar.

Anyone here knows how to dilute pine tare,… or fix the problem another way?

[ScottO12_3]

I went with indirect heat and stirring. Seemed to work very well. Personally I think the pine tar is used to mask the turps odor.

[stevedwyer]

For what purpose?
A friend uses pine tar and bees wax, thinned with turpentine. Then, heats it outside in a double-boiler. Kept warm in a tin, this can be used as a putty for plugging cracks and small "seam breaks" prior to painting.

[Thad Van Gilder]

For inside dinghies and skiffs, I have used a 50 50 mix of turpentine (a Quart)and boiled linseed oil with a splash of japan dryer and a golf ball size dollop of stockholm tar.

I just shake it in a empty paint can and it works fine for me.

-Thad

[Thorne]

Try searching for 'boat soup' -- lots of threads on the topic. None of it worked well for me, but we can get temps well over 100 degrees F when boating in the sun in the summer...so I had to varnish everything.

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3389779/41589308.jpg

[Michael Beckman]

I use an electric hotplate, works well.

[Bob Smalser]

But never, ever without the can or metal container containing the oil, tar or wax placed in a pan of hot water like the large "double boiler" I show above.

Otherwise one minor bubble or splatter can light the oil can. Then when you try to smother the burning can containing the oil you usually tip the can over. Then you have an impressively large and fast oil fire difficult to put out.

Trust me you don't want to learn this one the hard way in a boat shop littered with dry shavings and wood. ;)

[carioca1232001]

But never, ever without the can or metal container containing the oil, tar or wax placed in a pan of hot water like the large "double boiler" I show above.

Otherwise one minor bubble or splatter can light the oil can............

I have used this same procedure to de-solidify roofing tar, a good bedding compound for underwater transom parts.

Your emphasis on utilising the 'double-boiler' system, sine qua non, is to be commended. Nasty accidents await those taking 'short-cuts'.

[Yeadon]

What about putting the pine tar in the microwave to warm it up before adding to the boat sauce?

I've microwaved my system three epoxy when it was cold in order to warm it up a bit to help the mixing process ... I've had good success doing this.

Incidentally, if the microwave is in the kitchen, I'd suggest not mentioning it later during dinner. The hot pine tar smell might give you away, though.

[Willem]

Thanks people.

Using a bain-marie. Sophisticated! I'll tell him he can poach a salmon while he's at it. :D

[Michael Beckman]

But never, ever without the can or metal container containing the oil, tar or wax placed in a pan of hot water like the large "double boiler" I show above.

Otherwise one minor bubble or splatter can light the oil can. Then when you try to smother the burning can containing the oil you usually tip the can over. Then you have an impressively large and fast oil fire difficult to put out.

Trust me you don't want to learn this one the hard way in a boat shop littered with dry shavings and wood. ;)

This is why I like the hotplate. No flame, and the temperature can be controlled to keep it from getting too hot. I tried using a double boiler at first, but I can't get enough heat to boil water usually.

[Bob Smalser]

This is why I like the hotplate. No flame, and the temperature can be controlled to keep it from getting too hot. I tried using a double boiler at first, but I can't get enough heat to boil water usually.

Splattered oil will catch fire on your electric hotplate just as fast as it will on a flame burner. All it needs is a temperature that exceeds linseed's mere 200-degree F flashpoint, which your burner easily does.

A kitchen match burns at 1200 degrees F, but if you light one and toss it into a can of linseed oil, the oil will extinguish the match. That's only because the flame lost its oxygen before the oil heated to 200 degrees, but your large electric hot plate burner at 700 degrees F won't have that problem.

Moreover, the 212 degrees that water in your small saucepan is boiling at is the same 212 degrees the water in my 12qt bucket is boiling at, there just aren't as many BTU's because of scale. You just have to be patient and wait for the tar to melt in the oil. Although boiling water exceeds the oil's flash point, splattered oil in boiling water won't ignite because of the same lack of oxygen as with the match.

Listen to old guys with scars. T'ain't safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point

http://www.conncoll.edu/offices/envhealth/MSDS/chemistry/L/Linseedoil.html

[ssor]

Candle makers, animal glue users and linseed oil and pine tar mixers have two choices, take good advise or learn the hard way if you live to tell the tale.

[Michael Beckman]

Splattered oil will catch fire on your electric hotplate just as fast as it will on a flame burner. All it needs is a temperature that exceeds linseed's mere 200-degree F flashpoint, which your burner easily does.

A kitchen match burns at 1200 degrees F, but if you light one and toss it into a can of linseed oil, the oil will extinguish the match. That's only because the flame lost its oxygen before the oil heated to 200 degrees, but your large electric hot plate burner at 700 degrees F won't have that problem.

Moreover, the 212 degrees that water in your small saucepan is boiling at is the same 212 degrees the water in my 12qt bucket is boiling at, there just aren't as many BTU's because of scale. You just have to be patient and wait for the tar to melt in the oil. Although boiling water exceeds the oil's flash point, splattered oil in boiling water won't ignite because of the same lack of oxygen as with the match.

Listen to old guys with scars. T'ain't safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point

http://www.conncoll.edu/offices/envhealth/MSDS/chemistry/L/Linseedoil.html

Ah, that make sense. I wasn't aware the flash point was so low. I'll add that to the list of things not to do with linseed oil. No rags left out, no lighting the stuff up. Anything else?

[Kaa]

Ah, that make sense. I wasn't aware the flash point was so low. I'll add that to the list of things not to do with linseed oil. No rags left out, no lighting the stuff up. Anything else?

You probably don't want to drink too much of it :D

Kaa

[Michael Beckman]

Well, its also known as flax oil which is used with food.. I doubt the stuff at the hardware store is quite so safely processed though.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Well, its also known as flax oil which is used with food.. I doubt the stuff at the hardware store is quite so safely processed though.

The "Boiled Linseed Oil" is not boiled - but rather treated with heavy metals - toxic.

The famous fire risk from Linseed oil is its nasty trick where an oily rag self-ignites with no external heat source....


After a recent incident in the Mid and West Wales area, members of the public are reminded to take care when using Linseed type oils in their homes.

Linseed oil is frequently used as a drying oil. When linseed oil is thinned with turpentine for easier spreading, the drying time is enhanced. It is a common ingredient in paints and varnishes and can be used on its own as a wood finish and preservative.

A fire hazard exists in linseed soaked rags as it is known that oil soaked rags can spontaneously combust, caused by the build up of heat from the oxygen in the air reacting with the oil soaked in the cotton rag. This is known as an exothermic reaction. This can lead to catastrophic results.

The reaction can take place anytime. The amount of oil, size of rags and the temperature of the surrounding air, all play a part. It is known that warmer air speeds up spontaneous reactions.

Spontaneous reactions are more likely during the warmer months of the summer season or in a warm area of a building during autumn or winter. Oily rags placed near heating systems can be a danger also.

It is strongly advised that everyone reads and follows all manufacturers' instructions, and to avoid skin irritation, individuals should wear gloves when handling the oil.

To reduce the hazard oil filled rags should be placed outside to dry, cleaned after use, or placed in an airtight container.

from Mid Wales Fire Service (http://www.mawwfire.gov.uk/press_eng/news_details.asp?id=124) web site.

[carioca1232001]

Thanks for reminding us about the self-ignition possibility, PIST !

[Bob Smalser]

The reason it easily self ignited when oil-wet rags are stacked in a pile is that fermentation easily reaches linseed's low flash point.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Anyone who cares about the details might want to understand the difference between "flash point" and "ignition temperature".

[Jay Greer]

Well, aside from the dangers of combustion, a mixture of pine tar, bee's wax and turpentine is an excellent coating to use on marlin served and seized rigging components. We just used a batch we heated in a double boiler on the spreader tip servings for "Bright Star"
Once it soaks in it takes about two days to turn solid enough to not mark clothing hands or sails.
Jay

[Kermit]

Jay, do you know the recipe for the boat sauce used at PNSWB? I probably have it in some of my notes somewhere, but life's too short... I seem to recall using Sea-Fin in the mix.

[Jay Greer]

Jay, do you know the recipe for the boat sauce used at PNSWB? I probably have it in some of my notes somewhere, but life's too short... I seem to recall using Sea-Fin in the mix.
I have always mixed mine fifty fifty tar and wax and add enough turps to keep it at brushing consistancy once cool. It does take a few days to solidify.
Jay

[John A. Tones]

When we had Penta's hull gutted for the re-fit I scraped all the interior planking and ribs to rid them of 25 years of commercial fish boat residue and then mixed a brew of 50% boiled linseed oil, 50 % turps. with about a cup full of Pine Tar added to a 2 quart mix. I used the only Pine Tar I could find which came from a farm supply firm and was meant for treating horses hoofs. It was a thick, peanut butter , consistency, smelled great and blended into the brew easily even without heating. I then warmed the whole mess up in the perscribed "double boiler" method and used a pump up garden sprayer to soak the entire hull interior. Being she is red cedar planked, it soaked up quite fast so I kept on spraying over several days until it stopped soaking in and then about a week later she was clean, dry and above all smelled great. After 15 years of trying to make the hull smell "sweet" I finally was successful. The garden sprayer was washed out with hot water and soap and is still in use for it intended manner.
YMMV but it sure worked for me!
John Tones "MV Penta"
Sidney, BC

[Tom Robb]

My experience w/ boat sauce has been that it soaks in better in old wood that new, will turn blackish eventually, and has to be renewed but smells great. Mixture ratios vary with who's doing the talking like grandma's recipies do, so do what ever your mentor claimed was proper. Exactness probably doesn't count for much.