modified Herreshoff double planking

[edosan]

I would appreciate some feedback from anyone with experience in the field.
I am restoring a 1902 Herreshoff Steam Launch, #227. (I am only doing the wood, the owner is doing the mechanical stuff)
Original drawings specified "planking - 1/4" Mahogany over 1/4" wachington cedar" and measuring the frames on the drawing, I get 7/8" square on 11 1/4" centers.
Visiting the HMCo Museum, I found a launch #240 with what appear to be the same scantlings. Doing well but seams are open..
The original framing and planking on 227 seems to have been replaced long ago, so no guidance there.
So here's my big idea. It will be trailered, so up the original scantlings, bump up the plank thickness to 5/16" for each layer, and maybe make the frames a bit wider so they are easier to hit with screws and jeez, 7/8" square on a 30' hull? I will probably go 1 1/8".
Now, the stuff between Herreshoff double planking is shellac. Well I think that's all well and good. But I would like to provide the owner with a really durable hull, it will be trailered, in and out of the water..etc. I am thinking Smith's polysulfide between the layers. I did this on a Chris Craft years ago, and I always liked the result...a really tuff bottom with a resilient quality to it that I found especially appealing....A rawhide hammer blow would just bounce off quite remarkably....
I am thinking the polysulfide would also come and go with the planking, and perhaps provide a dry bilge if we are lucky....
Perhaps the greatest danger would be exploding the frames when she gets wet, so maybe do a couple coats of epoxy sealer on the outside when it's all faired smooth....to slow down the absorbtion rate..
Tell me what I am missing here...
Ed

[Dave Gray]

What does the owner expect from the restoration? A classic boat like the original? Does he hope to sell it some day as a classic? If so what you are proposing may make the boat difficult to sell.

There was a thread about using shellac between planking layers here in the building section not too long ago. You may want to look for it. As I recall Jay Greer had some very good comments about it.

As to epoxy on the outside... well that topic has been kicked around more than a dead horse. The overall consensus is you may be well intentioned but in practice it is not a good idea. Epoxy will be a brittle overcoat that will not swell with wood planking, so it will crack due to swelling or abrasion, letting in water where you don't expect and leading to a quicker demise. Search for those posts too.

Good luck, I am sure you will have all kinds of responses.

[johnmacmillan@btopenworld]

The extreme lightness of the Herreshoff steam launches is part of their attraction. Many were built as yacht tenders, to be hoisted on davits.

My view is that an original Herreshoff steam launch is such a precious and historic thing that it should be restored exactly to drawings and specifcation, or left as is.

My own project is building a Herreshoff steam launch, including engine & boiler from new. The hull construction is strip plank, to suit my abilities, and to trail. Perhaps a newbuild hull would be a better idea, for the boat owner to put the steam plant in.

[David Conard]

I encourage you to consult with Maynard Bray on this. I think you can contact him through our sponsor.

[edosan]

Points well taken, gentlemen.
I think I was, without knowing it, reverting to a construction method I already knew,(the polysulfide between the layers) rather than taking on the challenge of learning a new technique (the shellac)
Inadequately, I was refering to an epoxy primer made by Interlux which I have no experience with. I have rolled on enough epoxy and penetrating sealer to know they would be poor choices.
Taken all together, I am coming to the conclusion that I should build to the original specifications as closely as possible.
It has been a long road of discovery, as the boat I am starting with has many original Herreshoff components, but the hull seems to have been completely rebuilt to much heavier scantlings at some early point in her life.
Mr MacMillan, I have heard Jon speak of you often, thanks for weighing in. We are on the road of building a new hull. The old one is so decrepit that repair just won't do it anymore...Anything you have to say would be welcome..

[Jay Greer]

As I am also involved with this project. And did a partial restoration on the boat some thirty years ago. I can attest to the fact that the hull experiences a great deal of torque twist when under power. From a stand point of making the boat capable of taking the force the engine produces, my opinion is that it should be double planked. My personal choice is for the use of shellac as a bonding agent between the planking layers as it can be reversed by the use of alcohol as a softening agent should the need for plank repairs ever be necessary.
In addition, it is non toxic and very user friendly.
Jay

[Bob Cleek]

Glad to see there are some other guys interested in steamboats in here! Jay's your man. He's worked on this hull in the past. Unfortunately, his pics have gone to internet "red X limbo" with the demise of the photo dump he used on the old post. (Would love to see them reposted, Jay.)

There are very few NGH steam launches extant. I cringe somewhat when I read, "I'm doing the wood. The owner is doing the mechanicals." Let me digress a bit.

Years ago, I had a harbor-mate who moved in with an original Navy steam cutter. She still had its gun mount on the foredeck and I believe still carried her original Mare Island "B" engine. Somebody had put a cabin on her many years earlier. Now, this fellow was really a great guy and a good neighbor. He knew a whole lot about steam engineering. Unfortunately, he knew zip about boatbuilding. He proceeded to nail the most god-awful abortion of a pilot house on her in an attempt to make her look like a minature tug boat. You know, you can't just tell another boat owner what to do, so we all just stood by and gritted our teeth. Great guy, though and he and his boys had a lot of fun with her. She carried a steam whistle he must have found at the shipbreakers. I'll bet she dropped ten pounds every time he pulled the cord, but to hear it, you'd think the Queen Mary was coming up the creek. As with all boats, she moved on. I discovered a piece on her recently on line.

http://www.stanleysteamers.com/steamboats/jw/leviathan1-sm.JPG

http://www.stanleysteamers.com/steamboats/jw/leviathan2-sm.JPG

http://www.stanleysteamers.com/leviathan1.htm

From the pics, I can see that some later owner had removed the plywood pilot house, but couldn't restrain themselves and had continued to try to turn her into a minature tugboat. It looks to have been a fair job, but still a terrible insult to a very historic and now nearly extinct class of vessel.

The good news is that the Navy made somebody "and offer they couldn't refuse" and is bringing her back to the Navy Museum at the Washington Navy Yard for a complete as-built restoration. I expect she will be placed on static display and never get her steam up again, but at least this very historic boat will be preserved for study and research.

Now, "hobby steamboaters" seem nearly to a man to be gearheads first and mariners second. They know an incredible amount of nearly extinct infomation about steam power and most are very capable machinists. A lot were retired professional machinists and steam engineers, but I guess a lot of the Liberty ship engineers and such who had first hand experience with steam are now starting to die off pretty quickly. The problem is that a proper small steamboat requires a seamless merger of discordant disciplines. Indeed, the smaller the steamboat, the more critical the balanced interdependence of these factors is. (E.g., because of the relative cylinder volumes, a large engine has a much lower percentage of radiated heat loss than a small engine. Because a small boat doesn't have the luxury of "wasting" steam, the machining tolerances on a small engine are far more critical and determinative of efficiency than on a large one.) The steam plant has to be matched to the prop and the prop to the hull and so on. The engine has to produce the right amount of power to a prop with just the right pitch and diameter that match just the right displacement hull. The hull has to be designed so at hull speed the hull wave crests at just the right place on the hull to prove the lift necessary to the after underbody lines which must match the prop as well, all to prevent the hull from squatting under power. (And you thought designing sailboats was complicated!) Anything less and you start seeing a radical decrease in speed and fuel efficiency. NGH is one of the acknowledged masters of the design challenges inherent in small steam vessels.

Until a couple of outfits started producing fibreglass lake or "canopy" launch hulls out of fibreglass some years back, most "hobby steam" guys would find an antique engine, or build one, a boiler and the associated gear, the feed pumps, valves, cocks, gauges and so on and then go looking for a hull to put them in. The results were in many instances ridiculous mismatches. One common faux pas back in the sixties was to put a steam plant in a surplus aluminum lifeboat hull. They had a hard time understanding why these boats started sinking at the dock months later. The monel or bronze shafts, the iron engines and boilers, the bronze and copper tubing... all in a paper thin aluminum hull that was never built to be kept in the water for any length of time, made a pretty good battery!

The seamless blend of hull lines and propulsion is what made NGH's steam launches the wonders they were. His hulls were always designed for the power plants and vice versa. His engine designs were often unorthodox, offering "outside the box" solutions to common engineering problems and generally extremely light weight, a decided plus. As might be expected of NGH, his hull engineering was also radical for its time and very light. Light displacement equalled speed and fuel efficiency. Without that combination being just right, you can pretty quickly run out of space to carry the coal you need to get anywhere.

I would urge you not to do anything to that hull other than to restore it as sensitively as possible, relying on the advice of experienced conservators. There are several on the East Coast who specialize in Herreshoff restorations and I am sure know exactly how the HMfg.Co. built them to begin with. Any NGH hull, and particularly a steam launch hull, is really a museum piece. So are Herreshoff engnes and power gear. She really deserves the very best. She isn't just something to hold a steam plant. This is a hull that should be restored exactly as built, even where modern goops might be a bit better than the old shellac and muslin bedding between the double planking. As Jay mentioned, the low horsepower, large wheel, steam plant produces tremendous torque forces and the proper launch hull is designed for this. Given a very light displacement, the hull engineering is EVERYTHING. Odds may well be that NGH intended her to flex for just this reason, rather than tear herself apart. The wrong fasteners or adhesives in the hull construction could defeat this purpose. Only real experts in Herreshoff's construction and engineering techniques can answer these questions.

Also, the owner really should consult with the Herreshoff restorations experts before considering "trailering" this boat. Ordinary trailering, as in your ex-brother-in-law's bass boat behind the pickup truck, is EXTREMELY hard on traditionally constructed wooden hulls, and doubly hard on steam displacement hulls because of their length to beam ratios. This boat was never designed to suffer the impact of trailer beds against pressure points on the hull when a trailer hits a pothole. Even on relatively smooth roadways, the ordinary vibrations are likely to do significant damage to the vessel's structural integrity over time. The weight of the long, narrow hull must be distributed as evenly as possible on a trailer bed and particularly so in areas where the substantial weight of the engine and boiler bear. It's a pretty tall engineering order, but essential to the future life of the boat.

A wonderful, worthwhile project. Keep us all informed. Post pictures! And this goes for the "gearhead" end of it as well as the "woodbutcher" part of the project. You two are going to have to work very closely together in order to pull it off.

Oh, and don't ever forget NGH's experience with steam launches. You know, he only designed them for part of his career. What he accomplished in that short period was rather amazing when you consider that he was designing and building both the hulls and the power plants. Imagine any naval architect today designing the hull and the engines and all the peripheral equipment, and then running a manufacturing complex that produced it all without any "outsourcing" whatsoever! But, on the other hand, old NGH himself came to grief. Seems during the sea trials of one of his high speed steam launches, he ordered the safety valves tied down to push that little bit more speed out of her just for the record books. The boiler blew and one or two guys were killed and others injured. The government revoked his steam engineer's license and put him out of the steam business for this recklessly negligent indiscretion. But then, had that not happened, we'd never have seen all those great sailing cup defenders he designed and built in his later career!

[edosan]

Bob,
Great discourse.
I spent the weekend at HMCo for the CYS2008 event a few weeks ago, and then a day at the museum researching this vessel.
I have since interpolated some very interesting and significant information, which I have shared with Jay, relating to the original build of 227 and the kinship to #240 which is in the Museum. Alot closer than I had originally noticed when I was there taking pictures.
227 seems to have gone through a metamorphosis early in her life, before 1945 or so. Her original hull was evidently completely rebuilt, to the original lines, but using that builder's techniques. So different than NG's scantlings and techniques as to cause much head scratching and bemused mutterings from the NG experts I showed the photos to.
After figuring out that the rebuild should entail following NG's plans and scantlings, my concern over trailering starting chewing away at my common sense, and hence my incomplete posting with such vicious thoughts of modernizing.
So the hull shape is almost true to the plans, so close I had to lay sections taken off the existing hull over NG's drawn sections to actually see the difference. The machinery is all original and in good working order.
So, yes, you are right on the mark when you suggest a sensitive restoration in collaboration with NG experts. I am on that track, and, by the way, having a great time doing it!!
You are just the kind of guy I was hoping to elicit a response from. I will post again with a photo url.

[sawcutmill]

O Pictures please.....must have pictures!
welcome to the forum!
Where are you located?
Look forward to hearing more about this project.
stephen

[Jay Greer]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7ce26b3127ccebd340546206000000036100QYsmrNy5bsV
Here is a shot of my friend Chris McMullen's replica of #227. Chris saw photos of the original boat, became intrigued and took the time to travel from New Zealand to MIT and, after much searching, found a set of plans for the boat. He was unaware that Jon Martin, in California, was the owner of the original hull and engine. By accident, the two made contact and a great friendship resulted. Chris came to California and made scale drawings of all of the engine parts. The Marsh feed water and fuel transfer pumps that Jon has were a God send as no other examples are known to exist. I made extensive photos for Chris, he returned to Aukland and proceeded to build an accurate replica of the original Herreshoff tripple expansion engine and boiler. We have been advised by both Halsey Herreshoff and Maynard Bray that Jon Martin's boat and engine are the only surviving original examples of this particular launch and engine in existance. I personally was aboard "Vapor" when we were clocked at eighteen knots! This is actually a very high speed for a thirty foot boat that was built one hundred years ago! All the time we steamed along we were impressed by the nearly dead quiet of the machinery and the lack of squatting of the hull and quarter wave. I attribute this to the unusual under water shape of the hull that is much like that of the "coke bottle" shape of some jet fighters.
Jay

[Dave Gray]

This is a great thread. Keep it coming please!

[Bob Cleek]

http://www.prestonservices.co.uk/USA_30HP_Triple_Marine.jpg

You mean one like this?


HERRESHOFF
Triple Expansion Marine Engine
4 3/4" x 7 1/2" x 12" + 6" Cylinders.
High speed launch engine of about 40 H.P.
Probably made by Herreshoff of Rode Island, USA.
p.v. to H.P. Cyl, s.v. to M.P. & L.P. Cyls.
C/L crank to underside frame: 6".
Length inc base: 38", overall: 44"
Width inc base: 16", overall 26" x Height: 38".
Incomplete and in need of major restoration.
A very rare high power launch engine.

GREAT photo, Jay! I'll have to study it further when I'm not half asleep! Night all!

[Jay Greer]

Similar. I will dig out some photos and post them when I can spare some time.
Jay

[pcford]

Great project! I'm envious!

I will agree with the others that the boat should not be subjected to trailering....sounds like abuse to me. Also would follow original techiques exactly.

[pcford]

Now, "hobby steamboaters" seem nearly to a man to be gearheads first and mariners second.

Yes....I once heard that steamboaters conceptions of the hull is the thing that floats the engine.

[Jay Greer]

I have attempted to post more pictures. But for some reason the site will not create an image from the posted encryption. This is perplexing as I am going through exactly the same process I have in the past. The encryption is accepted. But, no image results?
Jay

[Paul Pless]

and the lack of squatting of the hull and quarter wave. I attribute this to the unusual under water shape of the hull that is much like that of the "coke bottle" shape of some jet fighters.I'd like to see some pictures of that bottom shape when you get a chance.

[Bill Perkins]

Jay ; sometimes it seems that the toolbar icon supplies the prefix " http://" and if what your pasting in already has that it's no go .If this is your case ,try removing the preloaded prefix from the entry box before pasting in your info . This has worked for me.

[Bob Cleek]

While we are on the subject, I'd love to find a way to access the Herreshoff Mfg. Co. archives. Some of the posters on this thread apparently have. Is there ANY on-line access? I know that the Hart Collection has a catalog published somewhere. Do you actually have to go to MIT and research in their library to find lines, or is there someplace where you can identify what they've got and order copies? As anybody who has ever done any research on the steam launch phenomenon between 1870 and 1910 can attest, there is precious little available perserved in terms of hull lines and engineering drawings.

Also, although I realize we are a few fringe element nuts... there isn't a whole lot of activitiy on steam navigation on the net, either. There have been several attempts to start forums in engineering sites and so on, but nothing seems to have coalesced like this forum has. Two or three posts a year won't keep a marine steam forum going. On the other hand, Scott could perhaps with a few key strokes open a "traditional marine steam" section in the WBF. I tend to think that if that happened and we let the steamboaters know about it, they'd come flocking. There really needs to be a merger of information exchange between the "engineers" and the "woodbutchers." This is so essential at this point, because there are few knowledgeable steam engineers out there, save a few hobbyists. Lots of guys building MINATURE steam engines, but few doing it full size. (Check out this guy's site. It will absolutely blow you away! http://www.modelengines.info/) The guys who used to do it for a living are all dying off. WB "saved" the traditional boatbuilding crafts back in the early '70's when there were just a few of us hobbyists picking the brains of the old timers. Look what wonderful things came of that! Maybe WB can do the same for steam. Sure, there are some metal hulls and (egads!) even fibreglass fantail launches, but what would it be like if we started building replicas of the great wooden steam launches of the past? We could start a movement!

See: http://www.steamlaunch.com/

I've got all the books they offer, which pretty much comprise everything that exists on small steam power. Great books they are. I particularly recommend "Steamboats and Modern Steam Launches," despite the apparently high price. "Reeds Steam Yachts, Trawlers and Launches" is a rather technical piece, a reprint of a late 1800's book, but contains all you need to know technically about the mechanicals. "The Steam Launch" is a picture book, pretty much "steamboat porn," but that's what dreams are made of! I've talked with the guy who runs this outfit and he knows his stuff. It's a small outfit, but just about the only game in town. Steam is starting to take off in the Pacific Northwest and in a few other spots in the country. They are ahead of us in Europe, particularly in the UK. Given what's happening with the whole fuel crisis thing, not to mention that "classic sail" has been polluted by the super-rich, this may be your chance to get in at the bottom on the cutting edge!

[Paul Pless]

So Cleekster, you know wood boats, and steam engines, and you got that lathe, when you getting started?;)

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/22steamlines.JPG

[Jay Greer]

Jay ; sometimes it seems that the toolbar icon supplies the prefix " http://" and if what your pasting already has that it's no go .If this is your case ,try removing the preloaded prefix from the entry box before pasting in your info . This has worked for me.
That is a given with the way I post pictures. The odd thing is that while the tool bar pics up the encryption, it does not become a picture. I have never experienced this before. I'm going to try again right now.
Jay

[Bill Perkins]

How does the lbs/horsepower ratio of a small steam engine and fuel compare to that of an electric motor run by a battery bank big enough for an all day run ?

[Jay Greer]

http://www.shutterfly.com/view/pictures.jsp
Ok guys here is another try. If the picture comes through, look closely at the area just at the stuffing box. Although not clear her the area is indented and the area aft bulges to the strut. Rats, I see it didn't work! I'll give it one more go.
Jay

[Jay Greer]

http://www.shutterfly.com/view/pictures.jsp
Well, I will try posting separetly from this thread.
Jay

[bob easton]

http://www.shutterfly.com/view/pictures.jsp
Ok guys here is another try. If the picture comes through, ...
Jay

Old computer geek here. I can look at the source code of your post and see that you've picked up something from Shutterfly. But, it's not the address of an image. You're not picking up the right "encryption" as you call it. I don't have Shutterfly account, so I can't direct you to exactly what you should be picking up, but this isn't working. It looks like you're getting the URL for the service itself, not an image.

The best advice I can offer is that the URL ("encryption") should end with .jpg The thing you're currently picking up ends with .jsp, and that's clearly nor working.

[Bob Cleek]

Paul... don't let my wife see that question! LOL

Hey, I have to say that I'm gettting a little long in the tooth (okay, not THAT old... 58) to be doing the "foredeck ape" thing on a small sailing boat. Besides, the berthing costs are getting pretty steep and it's a pain in the ass to have to maintain a boat that's 20 miles away from the shop. On the other hand, a steamer can be trailered (if designed to take the beating) and worked on in a home shop. (Okay, I know I have a shop far beyond what the average guy has to settle for... 1500 square feet with all the tools I need.) It would take a while to (learn to) machine your own steam engine, but, hey, it's doable, one piece at a time. Frankly, I've gotten all the sea-time I need over the years and it's about the building that fascinates me still. I could (and will) knock together that Herreshoff Columbia dinghy so I can get some exercise rowing on the old Petaluma River, but I keep thinking that a traditional small steamer (a launch, not some abortion of a minature paddlewheeler...) would be just the ticket to tootle around the rivers and deltas in Northern California. If she were trailerable (sigh... I guess that means cold molded), I could take her up to Tahoe and elsewhere as well. A pipe dream... well, yea, but that's how it all starts. (I guess I gotta let go of the Vertue I've owned for 35 years first, though!)

Bill... the short answer is "it depends." An electric motor would need some humongous batteries to manage an "all day run." I'll say this, though, the guys who are seriously messing around with electric motors are all using steam launch displacement hulls because they are the most efficient. The highly refined displacement hull is really what it is all about. Somewhere shortly after high speed internal combustion came along, they discovered they could put a shoebox up on a plane with enough power driving a small prop. It's been downhill all the way. This is a tremendously wasteful way to get a boat from one place to the other, but if you are interested only in speed and the cost of fuel doesn't matter, it is the way to go. Certainly, the lighter IC engines were once "more efficient," but we've come full circle. The cost of fuel has now caused a rethinking of what "economy" really means. Wood to fire a boiler can be had for free.

There's no way that a bank of batteries could match a small steam plant if you are talking about driving a 25-40 foot displacement hull all day long. Either way, though, the amount of weight you'll have to carry for a steam plant, whether it be wood or coal, for an all day trip, is going to be considerable. (Diesel or propane is another matter, though.) The batteries will end up making the electic power plant much heavier than a steam plant of comparable power, I'd guess, even though the boiler and engine of a steam boat are going to weigh more than the electric motor alone. This is so if you are talking about a day's voyage. Just running in and out of the berth is another matter.

As far as POWER goes, the steam plant is hard to beat. A 10hp steam engine will drive a 25' steam launch at hull speed. Try that with a high rev gas engine in most hulls designed today! We're talking tremendous torque which can turn a huge wheel. The high speed IC engine turns a small prop at extremely high RPM's, but with a huge amount of wasted energy due to prop slippage. (Think about it like a rower taking a whole lot of fast strokes with short little oars versus a rower taking slow strokes with long broad bladed oars.)

That said, steamboating is a thing unto itself. If what you want to do is run out to the fishing grounds as quickly as possible on a Saturday morning, a steamboat isn't going to be your thing. If you want huge accommodations uncluttered by mechanical equipment, a steamboat isn't your thing. However, if you want to slip along at hull speed in complete silence and have a boat like nobody else when you pull into the marina, maybe a steamboat is what you want. If you want a boat you can build ENTIRELY yourself, maybe a steamboat is what you want. If you want a boat you can afford to power, maybe a steamboat is what you want. If you are a crazy idiot who just loves messing around in boats, maybe a steamboat is what you want.

Who the hell knows? LOL

[Banjo]

Hey Bob, hows a bouts this pretty little launch? Just the ticket for your home grown engine.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/piwakawaka/index.htm

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/piwakawaka/piawakawaka.gif

[Bob Cleek]

Oh, I was thinking something in the 24' to 30' range. That one is a leetle small. But cute! Definitely the direction we're going in here.

[Banjo]

Oh, I was thinking something in the 24' to 30' range. That one is a leetle small. But cute! Definitely the direction we're going in here.

Oh my mistake, I skimmed over this and put the two together :(

I could (and will) knock together that Herreshoff Columbia dinghy so I can get some exercise rowing on the old Petaluma River, but I keep thinking that a traditional small steamer (a launch, not some abortion of a minature paddlewheeler...)

[Jay Greer]

When we were running #227 "Vapor" back in the early eighties, we got one hour per gallon of #2 Diesel fuel. We could run all day at 210lbs. of boiler pressure and still have plenty of fuel in the tanks. The boat is thirty feet in length.
Jay

[Jay Greer]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7ce26b3127ccebd340543a15500000036100QYsmrNy5bsV
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7ce26b3127ccebd340524200200000036100QYsmrNy5bsV
Well, apparently the photo problem was with Shutterfly. Take a look at the shape of the hull fwd of the strut and you will see the reverse curve and the bulge that starts at the stuffing box.
Jay

[Bob Cleek]

Thanks for taking the time to give us the post, Jay! Interesting shape.

[87gn@tahoe]

http://www.stanleysteamers.com/steamboats/jw/leviathan1-sm.JPG

http://www.stanleysteamers.com/steamboats/jw/leviathan2-sm.JPG

http://www.stanleysteamers.com/leviathan1.htm

From the pics, I can see that some later owner had removed the plywood pilot house, but couldn't restrain themselves and had continued to try to turn her into a minature tugboat. It looks to have been a fair job, but still a terrible insult to a very historic and now nearly extinct class of vessel.

The good news is that the Navy made somebody "and offer they couldn't refuse" and is bringing her back to the Navy Museum at the Washington Navy Yard for a complete as-built restoration. I expect she will be placed on static display and never get her steam up again, but at least this very historic boat will be preserved for study and research.


Wit my first post I shall perform;

Bringing this thread back from the dead!!!

Bob,

The leviathan still sits rotting away in that boatyard on Bethel Island where those photos were taken. They removed the cabin and left the hull and machinery exposed to the elements to deteriorate.

Her cabin wan built by Sweeney (forget his first name), he ended up donating her to Cal Maritime where she sat for a bit until 'ole Will bought her. Will steamed her for years and years, bringing her to the annual steamboat meet at B&W Resort Marina, near Isleton, CA. His health and age eventually forced him to sell her to the man too good to be true.

If you and other members are still interested in steamboats and their construction, there is a forum dedicated to just that. www.thesteamboatingforum.net

If you do end up coming to Tahoe withe your future boat, give me a shout, and we'll have a mini steamboat meet.

Jay- What was the stability like on the "Vapor"? Was she very tippy? Where is she and why isn't she in steam now?


~Wesley Harcourt

[JimConlin]

While we are on the subject, I'd love to find a way to access the Herreshoff Mfg. Co. archives. Some of the posters on this thread apparently have. Is there ANY on-line access? I know that the Hart Collection has a catalog published somewhere. Do you actually have to go to MIT and research in their library to find lines, or is there someplace where you can identify what they've got and order copies? As anybody who has ever done any research on the steam launch phenomenon between 1870 and 1910 can attest, there is precious little available perserved in terms of hull lines and engineering drawings....

The MIT Museum /Hart Collections publishes "Guide to the Haffenreffer-Herreshoff Collection". It's a catalog of what they have. $15
Contact Kurt Hasselbalch, kurt@mit.edu 617-253-5942