Cetol price shock

[Anthony Zucker]

I was buying house paint at Benjamin Moore and noticed a Cetol stand. For residential use Cetol has Clear, with a slight orange tint, and a bunch of colors and stains. I believe the clear is same stuff we buy at West Marine for $40 and Moore sells it for $20.
Can this be true?

[jimmy]

So you're shocked that a company would put "marine" on the label and charge twice as much? I guess you haven't owned a boat for very long, that is standard practice since anyone who owns a boat is obviously rich. I have met people who use the non-marine product and think it is just as good, but so far I have just used the expensive stuff so I don't know if there is any real difference other than the price.
James

[kc8pql]

Cetol Marine does have a slightly better UV inhibitor package than the exterior house stuff but the biggest reason for your sticker shock is Waste Marine, the most expensive place to buy anything. The chandlery at my marina sells Cetol Marine for $22.95.

[ron ll]

Yup. Westmarine strikes again. Just checked this year's Fisheries catalog and Cetol Marine is listed at $31.11. And that's "list". Of course nobody pays list at Fisheries. (BTW, we're talking per quart here, right?)

[boylesboats]

Yup. Westmarine strikes again. Just checked this year's Fisheries catalog and Cetol Marine is listed at $31.11. And that's "list". Of course nobody pays list at Fisheries. (BTW, we're talking per quart here, right?)

A whopping $90.00 bucks per gallon:eek:

[Mrleft8]

A whopping $90.00 bucks per gallon:eek:
Man..... I wish I learned math in Missouri! ;) :D $124.44?

[boylesboats]

Man..... I wish I learned math in Missouri! ;) :D $124.44?

It's not from Missouri :D

I just seen it here (http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?fno=400&group=775), total cost not including shipping and taxes.. If this is the same stuff ya'll talkin' about?

[LeeG]

You could by a box of 48 2" disposable brushes from anywhere for the price of 12 2" foam brushes from WestMarine.

1/4" ss. t-nuts are $3 each and $.35each and Chesapeake Marine fasteners.

But you can get some nice shirts on sale,,and the electronics are reasonably priced. You really have to know what things go for elsewhere, sometimes the prices are average but small often purchased items are out of sight.

What got me was the little packets of 4" square adhesive Solas tape patches. for some reason they kept getting more expensive, elsewhere they were $10/4 and at WM they were $15, they're now $18.

[Simmons18]

One does not purchase anything at WEST MARINE without flashing PORT SUPPLY card.
Simmons18

[Bob Cleek]

Maybe we should start a boycott of WasteMarine. They have pretty much driven all the small chandleries out of business. All we have left are a few mail order houses and my guess is things are getting harder for them. I have tried to source products directly from local manufacturers and importers. In face to face meetings with some of them, I have been told more than once that they have been forced to entered into contracts with WasteMarine to carry their products. These contracts prohibit the manufacturers and importers from selling their products to the public, obviously to require us to purchase the products at WasteMarine. I have reviewed wholesale price lists and WasteMarine's markups are unbelieveable. Clearly, the manufacturers aren't the ones making the big bucks here. While WasteMarine's "Port Supply" sounds like they are giving you a break, I think it has gotten to the point where it simply serves the purpose of keeping the smaller operators in the boat business quiet. What would happen if boaters nationwide simply decided not to shop in WasteMarine in months containing an "R?" Sort of like not eating shellfish when the red tide is running....

[boylesboats]

Maybe we should start a boycott of WasteMarine. They have pretty much driven all the small chandleries out of business. All we have left are a few mail order houses and my guess is things are getting harder for them. I have tried to source products directly from local manufacturers and importers. In face to face meetings with some of them, I have been told more than once that they have been forced to entered into contracts with WasteMarine to carry their products. These contracts prohibit the manufacturers and importers from selling their products to the public, obviously to require us to purchase the products at WasteMarine. I have reviewed wholesale price lists and WasteMarine's markups are unbelieveable. Clearly, the manufacturers aren't the ones making the big bucks here. While WasteMarine's "Port Supply" sounds like they are giving you a break, I think it has gotten to the point where it simply serves the purpose of keeping the smaller operators in the boat business quiet. What would happen if boaters nationwide simply decided not to shop in WasteMarine in months containing an "R?" Sort of like not eating shellfish when the red tide is running....

There is few others like Jamestown Dist.. At least that is a optional choices who would shop..

There are time I have to compare prices between 4-5 major suppliers on same goods..:eek:

[S/V Laura Ellen]

One does not purchase anything at WEST MARINE without flashing PORT SUPPLY card.
Simmons18

For those of us that don't frequent West Marine, what is a PORT SUPPLY card?

[Bob Cleek]

"Port Supply" is WasteMarine's "wholesale to the trade" price list gimmick. You show them your resale license, and they give you a "Port Supply" card that lets you buy stuff at their "Port Supply" price list, which is maybe 10% off and no sales tax. In most states, getting a resale license means you have to start a legitimate business and then file business tax returns. Of course, if you are honest about it (and they do have ways of finding out), you then have to pay the state the sales tax on all the stuff you bought wholesale. Unless you really are doing a lot of wholesale business, that is more trouble than it is worth to save 10%.

On the other hand, I have found that it is possible to dicker with the mail order outfits. If you wait until you have need for a large order, by which I mean a couple of grand, you can often get them to cut you 10 or 15% off the total, toss in the shipping for free, and stuff like that. You have to ask, and sound like you may be ordering more from them later... you get the drill. Purely a negotiating matter. I've been kindly treated in this regard by Defender, for one.

[boylesboats]

As for the card.. There is a fee, ain't worth it if you buys less than $50.00 worth of goodies a year.

[LeeG]

so basically if you need often used consumable items used in maintainence and repair..Look elsewhere.

[Concordia...41]

Getting a Port Supply card is a little more complicated than that...

These days there is a considerable application to be completed and they ask for not just your tax ID #, but things like a copy of your yellow page (or similar) advertising, website, etc.

How thoroughly they check, I don't know. But I do know it's an industry thing and not just for every Tom, Dick, and Boat Smoe Harry... ;)

That being said, anyone with a marine business should have a Port Supply account. I've heard it's a little weird going in and picking stuff off the shelf because you don't know how much something is going to be. It may say $39.00 on the tag and it could ring up as $33.00 or $23.00. It just depends on the mark up, and I'm sure they're still making $$$s on the Port Supply purchases, just not as much. The clerk can always scan it for you, but it's a little complicated when you're loading your arms up and wondering 'well, do I want/need this?' or deciding of you should get the two quarts you really need or if getting a gallon of whatever goop is more cost effective.

The discount is generally greater than 10%. But then it also shows the highest price ever as the "list" and then the PS price. So the can of Cetol that says $39 on the shelf will show on the receipt as $44 list and $23 PS. And depending on the PS account, it can be without tax, but I expect that gets reported somewhere and you are responsible for it when you resell the item, because you are afterall in the industry and most likely reselling the item or end product.

Also with a Port Supply account, if they don't have something in stock, it's generally shipped next day at no charge, or so I've heard.

[boylesboats]

Getting a Port Supply card is a little more complicated than that...

These days there is a considerable application to be completed and they ask for not just your tax ID #, but things like a copy of your yellow page (or similar) advertising, website, etc.

How thoroughly they check, I don't know. But I do know it's an industry thing and not just for every Tom, Dick, and Boat Smoe Harry... ;)

That being said, anyone with a marine business should have a Port Supply account. I've heard it's a little weird going in and picking stuff off the shelf because you don't know how much something is going to be. It may say $39.00 on the tag and it could ring up as $33.00 or $23.00. It just depends on the mark up, and I'm sure they're still making $$$s on the Port Supply purchases, just not as much. The clerk can always scan it for you, but it's a little complicated when you're loading your arms up and wondering 'well, do I want/need this?' or deciding of you should get the two quarts you really need or if getting a gallon of whatever goop is more cost effective.

The discount is generally greater than 10%. But then it also shows the highest price ever as the "list" and then the PS price. So the can of Cetol that says $39 on the shelf will show on the receipt as $44 list and $23 PS. And depending on the PS account, it can be without tax, but I expect that gets reported somewhere and you are responsible for it when you resell the item, because you are afterall in the industry and most likely reselling the item or end product.

Also with a Port Supply account, if they don't have something in stock, it's generally shipped next day at no charge, or so I've heard.

Well said Margo,
That'll be nice if it works out like that.. For a wee tiny business like mine, I ain't making 10% of profits from every boats I do..

[pcford]

That being said, anyone with a marine business should have a Port Supply account.

Well, I'd say that nobody needs to do business with West Marine in any of its forms. The only reason I can think of is to dash in at a West Marine located in a marina to get a couple screws.

The prices are sky-high. The stock is narrow and the staff are rude and condescending know-nothings.

If you can wait at all you and you do not have a decent marine hardware store, you should use Fisheries Supply.

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/

[Old Sailor]

Stopped by our local West last week and just browsed around the store. As I was leaving a clerk asked if I'd found what I wanted. I said, "No just reminiscing.
Old Sailor

[Concordia...41]

Well, I'd say that nobody needs to do business with West Marine in any of its forms. The only reason I can think of is to dash in at a West Marine located in a marina to get a couple screws.

The prices are sky-high. The stock is narrow and the staff are rude and condescending know-nothings.

If you can wait at all you and you do not have a decent marine hardware store, you should use Fisheries Supply.

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/

I agree and disagree ;)

Whether you patronize WM a lot or a little, a Port Supply account will save $$$s on whatever you do buy.

Also, Fisheries Supply is great and I enjoyed their store (and Doc Freeman's) last time I was in Seattle. Obviously, it's been a while...

And I've had good and bad experiences at West Marine, and believe they vary greatly by store and by who's working at the time. Our St. Augustine store is awesome and full of folks who either know or will take the time to look something up.

Cheers!

- M

[S/V Laura Ellen]

... and the staff are rude and condescending know-nothings.


It could be just their reaction to you. I know a few people that work (or have worked) at West Marine and I wouldn't categorize them as rude or condescending. Must of them are quite knowledgeable.

[RodB]

When I was building my boat, I was in serious "research" mode...and spent lots of time pricing items I was going to need for the end stages of construction such as Blue Sea switches, wire, connectors, etc.

Many times I would go by Boaters world (the only marine suppliers in The DFW area are West and Boaters World...) and when comparing prices, mostly there was sticker shock at WM. I usually could save from 10 to 30% at Boaters world... which is not the case any more.. they are approaching WM now in pricing. I can tell you in the early stages I sure left WM disgusted at such prices... determined to never shop there again except when I needed a screw or washer...

Naurually, I spent time looking at other suppliers such as Defender Industries and Hamilton Marine, Jamestown, etc. When I needed wire, I found Hamilton Marine to be the best for Anchor tinned wire for my trolling motor etc...

The prices at WEst are so damn high, I practically never buy anything there if I have any time, and even Boaters World is now becomming almost the same in items I would need such as anchor electrical products, etc.

I have been helping a good friend who runs a sailboat business with rigging some of the delivery boats since the February Boat Show..and they use Port Supply such as suggested above. I will suggest Fisheries Supply and Hamilton Marine to my buddy.

The Dallas Area used to have a great business called Marine and Industrial which was the major supplier for all the marine businesses... but they went out of business. Of the three WM stores here locally I have been in, only one has a serious amount of marine hardware, the other two are pathetic... Overall, the state of "Marine Hardware" in our area is pathetic... and you have no choice than to go online ... and wait. I think Houston has a much better situation... a good friend rigs boats there and uses a local large supplier with pretty good pricing.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

RodB

[pcford]

It could be just their reaction to you. I know a few people that work (or have worked) at West Marine and I wouldn't categorize them as rude or condescending. Must of them are quite knowledgeable.

Can't say that I have met any of the latter.....

If the nature of the performance of West's staff is informed by their reaction to me, then they must have the same attitude toward all professional boatwrights. Nobody here would use them if a real marine hardware store were available.

[mike hanyi]

the cetol is manufactured by akzo nobel one of the worlds largest chemical companies, they have many other company names they use.

if you go to the root "akzo nobel" and look for their daughter companies look for one that sells house stain sealer type, It is the same stuff with a different price and name, In finland it is sold under
sadolin product name pinotex

some homework could save you some money

[Dave Hadfield]

I use a lot of Cetol, but I don't buy the Marine brand. I use house-grade. I've had it on the masts and mahogany trim of my 40ft ketch for 8 years now, and on my house for 14.

Works great!

I use the Cedtol 1 as the initial penetrator coat, followed up by Cetol 2,3+, which is the topcoat and UV inhibitor. Then a refresher coat of 2,3+ every year or 2.

It's cheaper than Marine, and from I've seen, better. I buy it at my local hardware store.

For the grab-rails on the cabin roof (teak), I use Cetol Dek, which is more orange, but tougher. It is also a 2-part system. Very good stuff. (I use it on my deck at home, as well.)

For evidence, see my thread in Designs, "Munroe-influenced ketch"

Dave

(Heck, I'd be applying it right now if it wasn't raining!)