View Full Version : NZ 30 sq. metre restoration
02-16-2004, 05:11 PM
Other square metre class deviants like myself will have enjoyed JohnB's posts about the restoration in NZ of a 30 sq named Vivi by Peter Brookes. A friend in Sweden sent me the following link this morning, and if you scroll thru to the last photo you will see that Vivi is nearly finished, and looking just outbloodystanding. And the quality of the finish in the bilge seems to be as good as the topsides.
The construction of that mast with the inbuilt curve also looks magnificent. Just inspiring.
30 sq metre Vivi (http://www.heybridge-basin.co.uk/Vivi1.html)
02-16-2004, 08:24 PM
I haven't been to see Peter lately... He's out the other side of town. I'll have to manufacture an excuse.........
02-16-2004, 08:39 PM
Excuse to visit the other side of town? I am trying to think of one to visit NZ...
When you go, a little written commentary would be nice for us voyeurs.
02-17-2004, 01:20 AM
roighty oh then Chris. Got a 4 day regatta to get out of the way starting Thursday, and then I'll go find out about Vivi, Tern II and a tasty 1920's bridgedecker that turns out to be my brotherinlaws family boat. all out that side of town. :D Peter may be at the regatta actually.
Did you know he has a pilot cutter to build.? an English one( not a Hess).
02-22-2004, 08:28 PM
The regatta got postponed . funny you put up this post because almost straight after, I got an invite to go and look at the completed boat prior to being shipped to the UK next wednesday. I couldn't wait so I went out to see Peter today. The boat is just gorgeous.The mast is just radical.
<A HREF="http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291714845">http://www.imagestation.com/images/is/community/this_album_button.gif[ 02-22-2004, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: John B ]</small>
02-23-2004, 04:34 AM
Sweet! But I'm curious... Somebody paid to have her shipped to N.Z. all the way from the U.K. for restoration, and now is gonna just ship her right back again! :eek: He's not even gonna spend a little time sailing her there while the weather's so nice? Your friend must come HIGHLY recommended, but still, gotta be some folks in old Blighty who could have done right by her for the amount of extra cash he's spending on shipping costs, no?
02-23-2004, 01:52 PM
Hi Art. Aparently it's economic to do it. $NZ and pound and all that. Plus the owner is something to do with the Americas cup and there were some shipping cost advantages in getting it here. I know that it's taken longer to restore than expected so perhaps there simply isn't time to take it sailing here. and the weather here has been survival conditions for the last 2 weeks. LOL.
It's going to Valencia via England.
You should have a look at the website posted above to get an idea of what Peter has done. He's responsible for the restoration of a class. The West Solent class out of Ian Wrights Heybridge basin.
The pilot cutter which is next to be built is going to be something to see. All Kauri and traditional methods build.
02-23-2004, 05:04 PM
Oh... I've looked alright! Been on my bookmark page since you first posted here about it. ;) Still, it's amazing to me that the economics "work" to ship something like that half way around the world... twice. A perfect example of "globalisation" perhaps?
(If you're serious about playing around with a bit of CPES, btw... e-mail me. Plain brown wrappers and all that...)
02-23-2004, 08:49 PM
thanks for taking the trouble to post those extra photos for the drooling massess. The result of that restoration is really inspiring, and that mast moreso. How often would someone take the time or have the skill to construct something like this?
The cost must have been huge, even without freight costs and i am very glad that the Hutchinsons decided to restore her.
I will be looking forward to seeing her with wind in some sails set on that mast. I hope that Peter Brookes get sent some by the owners.
02-23-2004, 09:15 PM
Hi Chris. Peter tells me that the mast "hook" was developed as a bit of a rule cheater historically( what would that be ... unmeasured sail area ?)but that now days they actually get penalised for it. The owner wanted it though because it's just plain cool.
because the mast has a luff groove and the rule scantlings require a specific minimum diameter, the fore and aft dimension of the thing seems disproportionate on first appearance. It's spruce though and fairly light.
some other details I thought worth noting.
there is a beautifully engineered forestay fitting with only a ball joint and plate visible on deck. This in fact, is a jib furler where the mechanism is under the foredeck. The chain plates are mounted to the frames, not the hull and allow for the bottle screws below deck.
I'll be trying pretty hard to get along to the function on Monday evening too.
02-24-2004, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by John B:
[QB]Hi Chris. Peter tells me that the mast "hook" was developed as a bit of a rule cheater historically( what would that be ... unmeasured sail area ?)but that now days they actually get penalised for it.QB]This I would like to know more about...
I have written about "whip-topped masts" in the square meter classes as a design inovation from the '20s. But I haven't found anything about the reason - although I assumed it was all about rules.
If anyone finds anything out, please post it!
[ 02-24-2004, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: lagspiller ]
The bent mast MIGHT have been about rules, but in the sq meter classes the rule is sail area is it not(if the rule is triangle area then that's different). In any case, I see the bend changing the center of effort upwards in relation to mast height, presenting more sail area to the wind at the height of the bend than would be possible with roach on the leach (now, THAT sound funny, "roach on the leach"). The sail takes some of the shape of a gaff sail with much more control of the leading edge. I wonder if Nat Herreshoff didn't invent this in designing the rig for the S-class boats in 1919.
[ 02-24-2004, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Thad ]
You see this mast bend now in carbon rigged boats. As someone else noted, this mast rake is a great way to help use a bigger roached sail, and get more sail area up high where the wind is.
My other guess as to why you would have a raked mast is this...Keep in mind it's a hypothesis though...
These were racing boats, and you wanted to keep the CG low. This meant a light mast, particularly up high...
Now I have a Nordic Folkboat with a wooden mast with quite a bit of taper to it. It also has a reasonably large main sail. As the wind picks up the mast bends back, and because of the cut of the sail, depowers the sail.
In these SQ MTR boats you want them to heal over pretty good to get the water line length working and more hull speed. Having a main sail that depowers in high wind would be a bad thing.
So they built in the curve, while still retaining a light mast, and cut the sail to use this curve. Hence, no depowering...
So what do you guys think? Does it hold water?
02-24-2004, 01:54 PM
I'm not so sure that sail area ever really means sail area in a rule. These boats can carry massive genoas for example but it's only the actual foretriangle that is counted in. Where is the main measured from in this class? More to the point. where was it measured when these bent top rigs came in.
And don't forget, rules change. Someone comes up with a rule breaker, the rule gets modified to take the breaker into account.
Say the rule in 1927? measures the mainsail as a simple triangle because long battens and large roaches haven't been thought of yet. You put a whole lot of extra unmeasured area up there, the boat starts winning and voila, the rule gets altered to bring parity back.
And THEN you get a rule breaker/cheater which has a mechanical advantage as well.
It's common knowledge that one of the syndicates was extensively experimenting with what amounted to a gaff rig in the build up to the last americas cup.
The small racing ( unregulated ) classes are moving evermore to bendy and more bendy mast heads. first it was carbon fibre tips .... now its carbon masts and fibreglass tips for more flick...
sort of what you get with a gaff rig strangely enough.
On reflection,I suspect that theres a bit of both in Vivi's mast . extra power and extra area but I'll defer to someone who knows for sure.
[ 02-24-2004, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: John B ]
02-24-2004, 06:12 PM
The curved mast is, as others have suggested, a combination of needs.
From the SSKF site ( SSKF Rule Outline (http://www.sskf.se/regeln/outline.htm) I have extracted a small portion that explains sail measurement:
"The large sails often surprise people as they appear to be lot larger than 30 sq metres. The explanation is that the size and shape of the head sails and spinnakers are free, what is measured is only the fore-triangle of the rig, which is measured to 85%. '
The main sail is measured to its full area.
The proportions between the mainsail and the fore-triangle are also unrestricted, thus it is possible to use very large genoas and spinnakers if desired." (but I believe that the spinnaker pole cannot be longer than the J measurement).
If the mainsail is measured to its full area, then one goal of the curved mast must be to support a larger, higher roach. My 22 sq m has max roach at 70% of the I measurement and is fully battened to support the roach.
If in the 1920s when curved masts were first introduced they had access to sailcloth technology of the late 20th century they may not have needed the curved mast.
As John mentioned, the SK classes brought a lot of innovations and were amongst the most advanced yachts of their time. L. Francis Herreshoff was one of the most vocal supporters of the Square Meter in the USA. He bought one in Sweden and imported it to Marblehead, Mass. He was convinced that these boats were bound to be the new Olympic class, and he judged them far better than both the European Meter class boats and the American R-class.
Mr. Herreshoff’s enthusiasm is a prime reason for the interest the Corinthian Club showed in the Square Meters. The class was introduced to the USA in Marblehead, and the first races were organized by the Corinthian Club. Which was a lucky stroke for the club…. they learned a thing or two about sails in these races competing against their Scandinavian guests.
According to "Yachting" October 1929, genoas were not popular and were generally not in use in the USA. When one of the premier yacht clubs on the East Coast, the Corinthian Yacht Club of Marblehead, Mass. organized a series in 1928-29, the challenging teams from Sweden and Germany trashed the American fleet. American yachtsmen had expected the winds typical of the Baltic to produce undercanvassed boats and careful, reserved sailors. The same magazine reported, "The Americans learned a lot about new sails, such as genoa jibs [...] high-cut mainsails, and an enveloping spinnaker which the Swedes produced."
I like them; they are fast, light and still quite capable of surprising modern boats. :)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.1 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.