John Gardner Mystic Weekend

[Clinton B Chase]

Last year we had a faering get-together. Should we do dories this year?...would love to have another theme...is any one going to the JG weekend or is everyone saving it for the WBS?

Who is planning on going. Lets hear it...

Cheers,
Clint

[StevenBauer]

I knew there was something I was forgetting to tell you Clint. Wade was telling us that there might not be a JGSCWW this year as no one at the museum wanted to run it. He said it wasn't definite, but it isn't looking good. :(
His feeling is that the Small Reach Regatta is carrying on the Spirit of the event.




Steven

[Canoez]

Bump.

Well, I certainly hope they do run it - I was hoping to get down there on the Sunday. Dan Miller just made sure it was on the calendar over at the WCHA.

It's also on the calendar over at the Mystic Seaport Website (http://www.mysticseaport.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=C9BDB2EA-EFD0-9CD9-E015D418B3650B55).

[Dan Miller]

A couple of us from the museum are planning to go, a pair of 16/30s in tow...

[Clinton B Chase]

I think we need to contact Mystic somehow and be sure it happens. This is not an event Gardner, Culler, and the others would want to see end. I am worried about this news. What is the best course of action. I'll PM Ben Fuller on this one.

Cheers,
Clint

[Canoez]

Clint,

I know that Dan Miller was going to send a message over to Wade to see what was going on. More contact couldn't hurt.

I know that last year the editor of Messing About in Boats posted an article about the decline in attendance at the Gardener Small Boat Workshop. I hope the folks at Mystic didn't take offence at that after 39 years...

[StevenBauer]

Wade is no longer a full time employee at the Seaport. He still teaches some boatbuilding classes there but he works full-time building boats elsewhere. I don't see how the Mystic folks could take offense, the numbers tell the story. There were once hundreds of people at this event each year with no advertising or promotion. Now they promote it and there are just dozens showing up. :( I've been twice, 2001 and last year. I enjoyed the event a great deal both times.

Wade's theory is that 39 years ago there were very few with the skills to build small boats and very little resources available to those who wanted to learn. There are more resources for building and learning now, but not so many events promoting the use of small traditional inspired boats. So the Small Reach Regatta is filling today's need as the Smallcraft Weekend filled the need of the past.

Steven

[Clinton B Chase]

So it seems like Mystic needs to shift the JGSCW towards a more use based approach. Last year was great I thought...attendance was dissapointing but the few workshops were informative. WB has put energy into the SRR, energy that if Mystic put into the JG weekend I have to believe attendance would go up. I think every one needs to get psyched up about this event again...there could be rowing clinics, sailing how to's, a workshop on all the different rigs out there and how they are rigged (there must be one of each kind of rig represented there). Seems like some fresh energy needs to go into the event. Where are the leaders at Mystic? And maybe we need to just accept the new scale of the event and keep it small -- Mystic may need to scale the resources going into the event accordingly. There is always grant money to be found to support it, too. Finally, the SRR and JGSCW are quite different things...not sure how the SRR could carry on the spirit...we need more spirit not different spirit. So I'd like to help out but not sure how. I have gotten in touch with a few people and made some contacts so I will keep people posted or they will get word out on the latest.

Cheers,
Clint

[Ben Fuller]

Folks,

It has been cancelled. There is a note on the MSM website with the official notice. Bottom line is with Wade now working full time at Taylor and Snediker, they want to have a look at the whole thing, the SCW, the boat shop etc. Bottom line on these events and similar ones is that not enough people show up. I used to run them in the 80s at the Seaport with 100 boats and maybe 400 crew. And we did it pretty cheap, like minimal help in boat launching. Food was much less expensive then as well. At no fault to MSM the costs to stay in the area have skyrocketed, as has gas etc. Dana does want input and suggestions, and there will likely be a working party to gather information and plan a new one.

I think event/ competion might help, launch your own boat etc. all would help. The old oarmasters, some versatility racing, a big dose of volunteer planning and WORK which is how CBMM runs. But bottom line got to get more people there and perhaps figure out a way to involve general public.

ben

[StevenBauer]

Sad. But we do have the WBShow there this year and the Small Reach Regatta to look forward to. I do hope it gets revived, though. Maybe next year with the new Director things will change.


Steven

[David Cockey]

Mid-Atlantic Small Craft Festival at Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum the first weekend in October is still a going concern after twenty five years. Participation has been stable the last few years with around 350 registrants and over 200 boats. But close to twenty years ago, when it was a considerably smaller event, MASCF was almost cancelled. Then there was a transformation to joint “ownership” between the museum and participants and the event took off. There may be a few lessons to be learned from this success, though for various reasons it’s not possible to directly replicate MASCF at Mystic.

MASCF formally gets underway on Friday evening with a seafood sampler and music, though participants start arriving earlier in the week. Saturday is the busiest day with workshops (including at least one targeted towards “woman”), toy boatbuilding and kite building for kids, cardboard boatbuilding for teenagers, rowing and paddling races for all ages including younger children, a sailing race which can have 50 boats of all different types comparing performance, boat judging, dinner, a speaker, and star-gazing (if the weather cooperates). Sunday includes a worship service for those inclined, a scavenger hunt for children, a three legged row/paddle and sail race, and finally a wrap-up meeting for any interested participants.

MASCF is an inclusive event, both in terms of participants and boats. It’s a family event, with parents reporting their children look forward to it through out the year. High school students have been known to skip homecoming to attend. Although it started as a mid-Atlantic event, participants now come from Maine to Florida, and as far west as Colorado. Besides the registered participants, museum visitors are also welcomed to observe and interact with the participants. The museum advertises the festival, including on signs at the entrance to St Michaels, and reports if the weather is good their “gate” on Saturday is about the same as a non-event mid-summer Saturday. A number of active participants first attended as museum visitors for the day. After seeing what was going on they decided they had to come back for the entire event.

There are no formal criteria or limitations on what boats can participate, and the mix at the waterfront is always rather eclectic. The majority of watercraft fit within a broad definition of traditional, but there are also Sunfish and similar, vintage and not so old class sailboats (vintage Moths are definitely not traditional), experimental craft, and others. Sizes range from under 8 ft to 25 ft or more. The vast majority of craft are propelled by oar/paddle/sail but there are no restrictions. A while back a group of electric boat owners attended and have been returning since. They hold an endurance race around Wye Island on Friday. You won’t find it on the festival program; they just organized it on their own. Overall it’s a much broader collection of craft than what’s in the museum’s collection.

A somewhat unique feature at MASCF is the opportunity to camp immediately adjacent to the festival. Probably the majority of participants spend the weekend in a tent, van or small trailer/motorhome in very close proximity to other participants. There are some accommodations available in St Michaels though most are about 15 miles away in Easton.

Back to the “ownership” thing. MASCF originally had the museum staff organizing and running all the activities. After a few years they were losing enthusiasm, particularly since MASCF was late in the season and followed a number of other events. Also the staff members who provided the original impetus for the event had left. Then two things happened which turned the event around. First, John Ford arrived and after one festival took clear ownership. Even though John’s responsibilities no longer include special events he is still a driving force for the event. Second, a group of participants approached the museum and offered to put on many of the activities during MASCF. The museum accepted and the steering committee was formed which is open to all participants. In fact anyone with an idea or suggestion about how to make the festival better is strongly encouraged to join the steering committee. Volunteers now plan and put on most of the workshops including those for children, take care of the judging, conduct the races with support from interested museum staff members, and provide star-gazing when the weather cooperates. They also meet once in February or March for a planning meeting. The museum staff still does a tremendous amount of work, more than the participants realize, but a number of museum staff members have commented how nice it is to be involved in an event which participants clearly appreciate.

So what are the key factors for the success and longevity of MASCF? Clearly the appeal to families and participants of all ages, broad range of boats, and ability to camp at the festival are vital factors. But the most significant is the ownership of the festival by the participants in partnership with the museum.

[StevenBauer]

Someone should forward David's post to Mystic Seaport.

Is the MASCF expensive, David? The costs of the JGWeekend were kind of steep, seems to me. $50 to $60 dollars a person adds up when you've got a family of 5.


Steven

[David Cockey]

2007 MASCF registration fees:
CBMM Members: $55
Non-Members: $80
Children: 1-5 years are free / 6-12 years are $ 30 / 13-up are adults

Peter Vermilya has been to MASCF several times, most recently a couple of years ago to learn more about what makes the event successful. There was also a discussion forum at the Museum Small Craft Association meeting several years about on-the-water events. MASCF seemed to be one of the more successful and we talked about some of the lessons from that event. Dana Hewson has been in several discussions about MASCF.

Peter tried to revitalize JGSCW including organizing a volunteer group to help out. It didn't seem to take off. The 2005 JGSCW included several events for children. The 2006 version had races though the weather didn't cooperate that weekend. There was an attempt to organize a place for camping but it had to be out of town.

I suspect a number of factors lead to the demise of JGSCW, some of them which the Seaport has some level of control over, others which they don't. Camping at MASCF is on museum owned property adjacent to the museum grounds. That situation doesn't exist at Mystic. The nearby casinos drove accomodation prices to very high levels for a number of years and that's something the Seaport doesn't have control over.

[Clinton B Chase]

This is a bummer, big time. This event was a huge influence for me in what I'm now doing with my life.

Well, I thing we should do something. I'm going to sleep on the news and see what others think. If we can't figure out how to make the weekend cheaper, then the other issues -- programming, types of boats, etc. -- will not make a difference. This was an expensive weekend. Guess I'll finally get to the WB show this year.

Cheers,
Clint

[Ben Fuller]

Perhaps the lack of interest in the thread reflects the lack of interest in the event.

sad

[Thad]

Doesn't follow, Ben. Seemed to me the floats were packed last year. You think the posts so far reflect lack of interest? And there are many past and regular participants that probably aren't regulars here. As to MASCAF, the price is higher but it includes camping ground, the barbecue and the dinner, as well as the waterfront and activities, with plenty of messing about. SCW has always been a great get together.

[Canoez]

I don't know about lack of interest. I was certainly interested and knew of others who were as well.

Steven Bauer seemed to allude to the fact that it was an expensive weekend - was there an additional cost to attend other than the normal entry fee at Mystic?

Was the decision to cancel this event more of a cost cutting measure on the part of the Seaport or was it more of an organizational issue?

[Ben Fuller]

There were a bunch of reasons that MSM cancelled : see my post above which has more information than is on the web site.

Chief is the loss of the gent who has been running it last couple of years. But the large picture is that people are not signing up in buckets, so that limits the income. And it costs MSM a lot to run it..... for those of you that have been there, think overtime for all the folks that help you launch boats and the other helpful staff, for example.

Second is the lack of a system to get volunteers involved to help run it, which is what has made the CBMM system work.

I just found it interesting that there had not been much traffic on this forum about the event.....

[rbgarr]

IIRC didn't they have a Sunday morning row out to the beach (Mason's Island?) That seemed like the highlight to me.

[Clinton B Chase]

David, that row was a highlight for me too, but the biggest highlight was the sheer beauty of all these great small craft and their builders/owners/users all together in a pretty mystical place called Mystic. My first year was wonderful with the kid friendly atmosphere/family events....the numbers seemed fine...I think we are losing something here and we need to rally. I believe the cost of attendance was a factor, especially for families. This seems to be the place to get families involved, not the Small Reach...the SRR is not exactly family friendly. The JG weekend offered snipits of opportunities for families to get out...rather than big doses like the SRR is...this means more kid friendly boating and more fun for them, which means they will get into it when they are older if not when they are young. I think this is the biggest potential loss if we don't fix the JGSCW. My first year, I was back paddling Green Machine into the dock area and was waiting for two kids in tiny little double paddle canoes who were in front of me having a blast, laughing, smiling, paddling...as I paddled in I over heard one say, "I can do this all day!". I can go on, but I'd rather start making some calls. Perhaps, we should use this thread to start forming a list of people who want this event back on and show it to Mystic (would they care, is my question?)


Clint

Cheers,
Clint

[Ben Fuller]

Dana Hewson is really interested in getting ideas from people. Don't know if he is monitoring the thread or not but his email is on the annnocement for this year. Bear in mind that actually attending is a small part of the cost if you overnight.

The row down to Masons I think started in the first or second one. Sometimes we used to go around Masons island.

[stevedwyer]

When I received the email from Shannon McKenzie this morning, I was very disappointed.
I sent both Shannon and and Dana a "letter of protest", then got in touch with several friends to rally support.
This forum probably should have been the first stop!

This event inspires people. After reading an above posts, I know I'm not the only one who considers the JGSCW as one of a series of "... life changing events."
I'd dearly love to see this great tradition continue. For my own part, the people I've met there hold the spirit I perceive at the heart of Mystic Seaport.

I welcome the opportunity to sign my name to a letter ( probably much better crafted than I could write ) in an attempt to open up dialog with a planning committee. I'm sure that if we showed a small measure of the team effort that went into the Small Reach Regatta, the powers that be could be swayed.

What would they do if we showed up anyway? A raid on Mystic Seaport? We could launch from the town ramp, then park our vehicles in the Mystic lot.

All the best,
Steve Dwyer

[Ben Fuller]

What would they do if we showed up anyway? A raid on Mystic Seaport? We could launch from the town ramp, then park our vehicles in the Mystic lot.

All the best,
Steve Dwyer

I was waiting for someone to suggest that. Not sure it would make sense for those of us with 5 hours needed to make the drive, but one could say meet at the beach at noon on Saturday.....

[stevedwyer]

Here are a few of the emails sent by others today...

Dear Dana Hewson and Sharon McKenzie-

I was shocked to learn today from my friends Andrew Kitchen and Steve Dwyer of Mystic Seaport's cancellation of the John Gardner Small Craft Workshop this coming June. I'm in complete agreement with what they have both written you about this unfortunate turn of events.

I'm relatively new to the passion of building and sailing small boats and have attended every June since I first learned of the John Gardner workshop 5 years ago. For me it has been one of the major highlights of the small boating season. I look forward each spring to seeing and trying other participants boats, exchanging building tips, examining construction techniques, and seeing again my fellow small boat enthusiasts - most of whom I never would have met if it hadn't been for the workshop at Mystic. Andrew Kitchen who has already written you is a good case in point. He is an exquisite craftsman from upstate New York whose boats are functioning works of art and are admired by all the workshop participants. Were it not for the workshop we never would have met.

I don't know Mystic's reason for canceling the workshop. However, if fostering an interest and knowledge of traditional small craft is part of Mystic's mission [and I trust it is], this cancelation seems short sighted to me. Last year there had been considerable exchange of ideas over the winter between Wade Smith and the participants which made us all feel that Mystic was serious about our ideas for improving the workshop. Clearly, from our perspective, Mystic is off track this year.

I hope you both will be forthcoming about what's going on at Mystic. I'd like nothing better than to receive an email from you in the next few days saying that Mystic has reconsidered and the workshop will go ahead as originally planned. We're willing to help make it a success.

Sincerely,
Nathan Rome

Dear Dana Hewson,

It is with great sadness that I learned this morning of the cancellation
of this year's JGSCW. I feel this is a great loss for the traditional small
craft community and a serious dilution of Mystic Seaport's mission. It
is sad that the museum has seen fit to cancel this legacy of John Gardner
less than 15 years after his death.

I can understand that these are hard times for institutions like Mystic, but
a cancellation like this at such a late date with absolutely no explanation
shows a significant lack of consideration for those diehard supporters who
have contributed to this event over the past years. No attempt was
made to solicit suggestions for ways to ensure that this event continued in
some form before it was decided to cancel. In fact, no mailing has even been
attempted to inform past attendees of the cancellation. If it wasn't for the
thoughtfulness of a friend (confirmed by a visit to the Mystic web page), I would
still be in the dark.

On the Mystic web page the announcement reads as follows:
John Gardner Small Craft Workshop
CANCELLED- If you would like to make suggestions for this event in
the future, please email Dana Hewson, Vice President for Watercraft
Preservation and Programs.
The phrasing of this leaves me with the impression that the museum has
no serious commitment to continuing this event. How can we possibly "make
suggestions for . . . the future" when we have no idea why it is being
cancelled in the first place? At the very least, give us reasons for the cancellation
and lay out the issues for us, so that we can truly make helpful suggestions.

On a personal note, I have rented a cottage for that weekend and the following
week so that I could attend. Now this was my decision, and a week in Mystic
(even without the Workshop) will be a pleasant enough vacation, but it does
point up the fact that people do plan ahead for such events, and need to be
informed of changes in a timely fashion.

Andrew
__________________________________________________ ____
Andrew Kitchen
155 Thistledown Drive
Rochester, NY 14617-3048

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know it would be a long drive, especially without the planned workshops. It might be fun though and a show of strength...
that is if, enough people come.

[akitchen]

Perhaps the lack of interest in the thread reflects the lack of interest in the event.

sad

My "lack of interest" arose out of a lack of information. It wasn't until
Steve Dwyer contacted me yesterday (4/23) that I learned that JGSCW
was canceled. This is a great loss. I'm rather new to the small craft
world, so I never experienced the halcyon days of JG and "Pete" Culler,
but over the last three years this has been an eagerly anticipated event
on my calendar. In particular, Wade's workshop on steam bending last
year was a great experience. I always enjoy the camaraderie around
the floats and on the trip to Mason's Island, as well as the chance to
poke around in the warehouse amongst all those craft the world never
gets to see (last year, I smashed my cell phone jumping off the Block
Island Cowhorn, Wade's quick action saved me from breaking anything
important :rolleyes:).

For me, coming from western NY, the Small Reach Regatta is not a
really attractive alternative (much though I would love to participate
some day). Mystic is a six hour trip - not too bad - but trailing my
boat twelve hours to Brooklin, ME, is not something I relish at my age.
Mystic's more central location, plus the amazing resources of the
museum itself, make it the ideal venue for this kind of event.

People who have attended MASCF have great things to say about it.
Clearly, there is much that Mystic could learn from the history and
design of that event. If volunteer participation is the way to go, by
all means let's borrow from the MASCF model, but there has to be
someone on the Museum staff who has a serious commitment to
making it work. It appears that at the moment that person doesn't
exist.

How can we start a dialog with the Museum Management? Somehow
we have to infect them with our enthusiasm for JGSCW, and find a
way to reduce their cost to a level they find acceptable. Unfortunately,
I don't think an appeal the heritage of the JGSCW or to the mission
of the museum is going to melt much ice in these days of obsessive
corporate cost-cutting. I wrote to Dana Hewson, but as I was in shock
at the time I don't think my message was a really positive one. We
probably need to take a more upbeat, enthusiastic, can-do approach;
and, we probably need to involve a broader group within the Museum.

Any suggestions?

Andrew

[Clinton B Chase]

How can we start a dialog with the Museum Management?
Any suggestions?

Andrew

Who lives near Mystic that can be roped into this discussion. I think we should have a meeting with the Mystic folks...even if it was right here, and get a quick bulleted list of the problems that led them to cancel...from most important to least...perhaps we just use the reasons Ben listed. But perhaps Carl of Carls boats could help. My suggestion is to have one point person down there who can meet them face to face...who is on the TSCA down there? I can lend experience with event planning, I put on a boatbuilding festival and a rowing event here in Portland, and others could contribute to an action plan that we'd then submit to Mystic. We can use this list to discuss; another point person (doesn't need to live in Mystic) could collect some action steps on one page...a one pager reads easily and quickly for people busy with other things. I could do this piece as a volunteer. I think the more volunteers we have the better...a show of force. I suspect that part of our showing up anyway could also be a meeting with the Mystic folks to try to get something going again for '09.

So, who could be a point person from the Mystic area? We'll need a scribe to collect and organize thoughts on one page as they are generated on this thread. I'd be willing to do that. Andrew, perhaps you could find out what the problems were since you have started some correspondence with the Mystic folks?

Clint

[stevedwyer]

It's good to hear your thoughts Clint. When is your event in Portland?

I have not heard back, as promised, by Shannon McKenzie. Her first email was sent to inform me about the cancellation,
the second just said Wade was no longer at the Seaport and that Dana Hewson would be getting back about my note.....

April 23rd, 2008 , 8:18 AM EDT( copy sent to Shannon )
Hello Dana,
I'm surprised. Why would you, meaning Mystic Seaport, cancel such a fine and long standing event?
I firmly believe the Small Craft Weekend inspires people. It also acts as an entry into the many other
programs at Mystic Seaport. In fact, I question whether I would have become a member or will continue
in the future since this event speaks volumes of the spirit that I and many others perceive at the heart of
Mystic Seaport.

Please offer me an explanation.

All the best,
Stephen Dwyer


I can't say why there's been no response, but your idea of a point man near Mystic may be the only way to move forward.
Do you want to make a list? It could include volunteers to help run the workshops, launch boats and maybe do a little promotion,
especially with other Small Craft Chapters. We have one, maybe two more monthly meetings scheduled for the North Shore TSCA.
There are tentative plans for a mess about in Gloucester.

There's the John Gardner Chapter of the TSCA... http://www.tsca.net/johngardner
Contact: Russell Smith fruzzy@hotmail.com
University of Connecticut, Avery Point Campus
1084 Shennecossett Road
Groton, CT 06340
860-536-1113

Let me know if I can help.
Best Regards,
Steve Dwyer

[Clinton B Chase]

Steve, I am putting thoughts out to Bruce E. who lives in the area...he may be a point man on this.

Do you think Mystic would allow volunteers to launch the boats from the Shipyard...perhaps there is already a vol. trained to use the launching crane. The ramp is fine, but would get quite crowded. Many boats can be hand carried as well.

Will keep you posted...

Clint

[Ben Fuller]

I know that in the past there have been insurance company issues with volunteers. I don't believe any have been trained to run the forklift.

[DanaHewson]

First, I apologize for the short notice regarding the 2008 John Gardner Small Craft Workshop. As you all know, we have canceled it because, in our current situation, we are not in a position to hold the event this year. In the coming months, we will be reviewing possibilities for the future of the event.

Thank you to those of you who have contacted me and if others would like to do so, please contact me directly with suggestions for the future of the event. Email me at Dana.Hewson@Mysticseaport.org or continue posting here. I will do the best I can to individually answer emails and I will continue to follow this thread.

It is too early to begin to formulate plans for the future, but there has been some great thought put into these postings and the emails to date. Please continue to express your thoughts.

Thank you,
Dana Hewson
Vice President for Watercraft
Preservation and Programs

[Clinton B Chase]

Dana,

Thanks for repsonding and definitely check out the posts. I have a feeling a few of us will get together in Mystic anyway and one of us may then combine some thoughts in a "one-pager" format and get that to you direct and/or post here. When it is time to plan again, let us know. This "place" and the people are a great resource and a great community. Feel free to use us!

FOR OTHERS: is anyone still going to Mystic the weekend for which the event was planned? Shall we make it a small get together anyway? OR perhaps we could rendesvous at the WB Show and talk about some ideas.

Cheers,
Clint

[stevedwyer]

I would think, anyone planning to go (anyway) should plan on launching from one of the town ramps.
I'd say any sort of get together is good, just don't know how many would want to make it with the WoodenBoat Show being held only three weeks later.
I'll be looking for more posts.

I do plan to get to the WoodenBoat Show, by sea or by trailer, just haven't worked everything out yet.
I gather a number of us will attend, which will offer an opportunity to hammer out some ideas in person.
Let's set up a time and place.

All the best,
Steve Dwyer

[Nathan R]

I'll certainly miss the JGSCW if it doesn't happen in some form. I'd be willing to join with others at Mystic June 7th if at least a dozen people would commit to coming. As an alternative, I'd be up for a small mess-about in Salem, MA or nearby as I live in the Boston area.

Like others I'll be at the WoodenBoat Show. I'm planning to come for Friday and bring my new boat which I plan to show in the " I built it myself area". If I don't go to Mystic on the 7th, I would consider staying through Saturday, if I'm able to find a place to stay.

I'm up for helping in whatever way I can to keeping the JGSCW tradition alive and growing.

Nathan

[akitchen]

I will be in the Mystic area for the week 6/7-6/13. I'd be happy to
join an informal gathering to discuss possibilities for the future. It
would be great if we could get Dana and possibly others from the
Museum to join us. If we could use a room at the Seaport to meet
that would be fine, failing that we could meet in the cottage my wife
and I have rented :) (in preparation for JGSCW :(:(:(). The cottage
is small, but I expect the group would be small also.

I'll also be at the WBS all three days, so I could meet then, too.

I'm not sure I understand all the reasons for the cancellation. Dana says, "As you all know, we have canceled it because, in our current
situation, we are not in a position to hold the event this year." I, for
one, am not sure that I do know, I assume this is in reference to the
fact that no one wanted to be in charge. But, how much is due to other
considerations? Financial? A perceived waning of interest? Etc.?

I do think we need to have a dialog with Mystic, if anything is really
going to happen. I think it is great to brainstorm ideas, but we need
know whether our suggestions are addressing the Museum's concerns,
and whether they are realistic from the Museum's point of view.

This is why I think it would be really helpful to have on board some
of the Mystic staff who have some clout, as well as those who would be
directly involved. Dana, is this a possibility?

As far as a small, informal JGSCW is concerned, count me in on that
too. My only concern is, where would we hold it? We probably can't
do it at the Seaport itself, unless we get some special dispensation
from the Museum. I don't know the area well enough to know if there
is anywhere else we could do it. A beach with a launch area nearby,
and perhaps a covered picnic lodge, would be ideal.

Andrew

[OEX]

Hello, Bruce Elfstrom here. I have been reading the thread as it goes and thinking things over.

1) Ben, I think there is plenty of interest in the event, but no real leadership to spearhead the event. This is due to many things, but primarily that we are all just finding out about the event's death now, way too late to get enough time to take it over and make it happen as it was in the past. Did anyone ask why Mystic announced this so late? Could it be that Dana did not know until recently it was not a go? Also we are all very busy, I for one have two businesses, and run WBRF and run boat restoration classes blah, blah, blah (yes i know you here the wimpering:)). I can barely hang on and then add the Brest trip in July and family, well...... I am not alone, we all have those issues or more.

2) the event at Mystic was turn-key for all of us. We did not see the work involved in the prep, I did see some of it while helping Wade a very little last year, but not all of it. It was a huge undertaking for one person.

3) Apathy, "it will get done by someone else with more energy and/or leadership " This I encounter all the time at WBRF. I was told it would not work, it has. I was told no one would come to the restoration classes and we have loads. That said I am doing the same thing, I'm just as "bad".......I do not have time to spearhead this, although I very much want it to happen. Also we all have a responsibility for the events decline, etc. Many people did not even pay to attend the event last year at a loss to Mystic. We cant be sheep, we have to act to keep things going, take responsibility and take charge on some level. And, yes I include myself as a we in this case on some level.

4) no one makes money on this event. Mystic is a business too, so.... This is an event that is going to make people loose money not make it. We are all may be OK with this, but I am sure Mystic is not. Again I have this issue with WBRF, its a great way to loose money.

So how do we address this.

Well we have the interest here and the people reading this thread and especially the ones who started it and write to it are the natural leaders.

I can try and talk to Mystic and see what I can do since I am not far and they know me (maybe thats not good in hindsight---I am the guy that does not care about convention and is overly frank with his comments....so?????).:D I have spoken to Perter Vermilya and he would love to know if we can get some event to happen, I think he would come.

We accept the fact that the John G part of this will be very difficult to impossible to recreate without Mystic. John was a part of Mystic and its their bag to keep it or loose it just as they did with the bookshop, some of their classes, etc. I say this like I do not care, but I also know they have to make the museum work. I selfishly want those things back, but I see their point. The museums that work well internationally are often funded by their country's governments. Clearly this will never happen here.

With regards to money, can we all chill out and loose some money? Good planning and fugal relaxed people will make for a bare-bones cheap event.

We can just do the logical thing and say screw it:eek:, lets just do our own RAID! In my experience sometimes (usually) convention is an anchor to progress and going against convention is a great way to flush apathy down the tube. Sometimes you have to just say screw it and do it. I am up for an impomtu RAID that is fun and makes Waves, both figuratively and literally. Mike Hanyi started the RAID Finland. He encountered the same issue, even to the point some did not want him to use the word RAID as if that were a new word for an event like this,. He was pressured to bow to Charles-Henri Le Moing and his followers that said "RAID" was a trademark. Mike said screw it ( I think) and his RAIDS are the best and longest running ones so far. Shipyard RAID in WA and BC is similar.

I am not saying this needs to be a RAID, but that we can do anything we want to. It will be tough to do a true family thing without the facilities to run "shops", etc. Maybe next year?

I know Pat Nelson on Long Island held (with others) a small RAID last summer that I could not make. Maybe he would be willing to hold one at his place (use it as a hub) out near Greenport (very, very cool spot). David Snediker expressed interest to me last year in being part of a RAID, but he is extremely busy (as are we all).

So maybe this means in order to get it done we need one lead person (anywhere in the world) and a bunch of us doing small things to help out. However, we all really HAVE TO DO WHAT WE SAY WE WILL DO AND NOT BLOW SMOKE!! It seems a common thing these days to promise something and then the next turn say "oh I just don't feel like it anymore" and drop the ball. This is just unacceptable and dishonorable IMHO, so I will not volunteer to do something I clearly know I will not be able to follow up on. If I do fail even if its not my fault, I loose sleep over it for sure. Thats why I hesitate in trying to raise the battle cry and run a RAID. I was hoping to do one next year if my schedule is open enough and I have a good team co-nutters...but not this year.

It might help if we had extra boats to lend out to those too far away to drive theirs here. I did this at the SRR and so did others, -- Ben Fuller. It feels good to see someone use your boat even it they sink it or ding it a bit. I have a few boats here. We can use the WBRF name to get some recognition (again this might be detrimental in the end:D, but....???)

So those are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Let me know what I can do. I do live 1 min from the CT river and have loads of land for camping/parking, etc. East Haddam, to Griswold Point Old Lyme and out to the sound to...? We could RAID Essex CT (that would flip out the yachties) and go to the Gris (Oldest Bar in USA - 1776).....but Pat Nelson's is so very cool---I'd love tell him we are RAIDING his hood!:D

Thank you all for starting this, its your effort that I am thankful for right now.


cheers, Bruce

P.S Clint started this thread. Seems like a leader-type-thing to do ;) Plus he has built a very cool boat this year! Clint, tag, you're it !!

[Ben Fuller]

I know that Dana is keeping an eye on this thread.

There is nothing to prevent any one from organizing anything they want. And if you are a member you can visit MSM by boat.....

I am not sure when the decision not to run was made, and that is neither here nor there. Clint started the thread the day after tax day, and it used to be my goal to get the announcement in the mail on the ides of April.

One of the things that is happening is a changing of the guard.... When I got involved SCW used to have plank on frame boats built and owned by 30-40 somethings, with some sixty plus folks around commenting and sharing ideas and there was only one of these. Now there are a passel of glued up owner built boats by the new generation of 30/40 somethings; the 30/40 somethings of the 80s have become the new grey hairs. Leadership needs to transfer as well.

Bruce is spot on with Walking the Walk...... about five or six years ago there was an attempt to get volunteers more involved with the SCW. Meeting held, good feelings then nothing happened. This will have to change.

[Clinton B Chase]

I'll be at the WB show this year and a few of us and Dana (quite a few people possibly) are having a meeting and we'll see what happens. But I agree with Ben and Bruce, et. al. that even going into this meeting -- even with keeping open minds -- the thing that has to happen is that someone has to lead the charge and not give up...I am in charge of rapid growth of a non-profit here in Portland, Maine...The Compass Project...and have a 3 year old and so on and so forth...I need to be sure that if I raise my hand at the meeting for a little piece or a major piece that I too will know I will follow through. Right now, I am not sure. But lets see what the meeting brings out. So, we'll plan on seeing some folks at the WB show...this will be my first b/c the JGSCW always took precedence (maybe the opposite is true for a lot of people -- people choosing one weekend to go to Mystic and the big WB show gets the pick -- and thus lowering JGSCW attendance???!!!). Maybe Mystic is not the place for JGSCW...there are other places to have a small craft event...(trying to have an open mind)...though it is hard to imagine it anywhere else, isn't it. And where else would you get to have your annual row in 'Green Machine'!

Cheers,
Clint

[stevedwyer]

It's all speculation on my part about how to proceed or what help I could offer without knowing exactly why the JGSCW was canceled this year.
It's too bad Mystic has not been forthcoming with any sort of explanation. I can only assume, management felt no obligation to give advance notice,
or their decision was made too late. And possibly, they did not consider the potential support from participants. From the outside, it appears as Clint wrote,
they may be thinking that the "owner-built exhibits" at the WoodenBoat Show will take the place of the Workshop Weekend... and the Boathouse...
we still have the John Gardner smallcraft at the boathouse. Again, just speculation.

I would appreciate a posting when the meeting will be held during the WBS. We may all gain some perspective. But I agree there has to be a follow thru and some way to measure the degree of interest. Perhaps the Museum, or someone else, has a contact list for people not yet aware of this thread?
It would seem, the more people who voice their support, the better chance we have to see this event continue.

Steve Dwyer

[lofting4fun]

The reason we dont return to Mystic is that they do not rotate their inventory that was donated . ., I went there and from the NW at a large expence. and was not allowed to view.gets old in a hurry to see the same few boats..............if they rotated their stock a bit and let the public have better access to their inventory that would stir some interest to be sure,I was there again last year, same boats showcased....boring, waste of my time and resources.

[Ben Fuller]

The reason we dont return to Mystic is that they do not rotate their inventory that was donated . ., I went there and from the NW at a large expence. and was not allowed to view.gets old in a hurry to see the same few boats..............if they rotated their stock a bit and let the public have better access to their inventory that would stir some interest to be sure,I was there again last year, same boats showcased....boring, waste of my time and resources.

What do you mean when you say rotate inventory? Do you mean the boats that are on exhibit? Most of those have not changed in a couple of decades. Do you mean boats in the water? That inventory has increased in the last decade or so? Do you mean access to storage? Last couple of years storage has been open on SCW weekend. Sounds like you did not know that or were not there on SCW weekend. There are some issues of crowding that make it hard to get to boats in storage, issues driven by two factors: decreased space since say about 1990 when storage was compacted, and boats that have come in. And boats in storage have minimal interpretive material on them with the boats.

[lofting4fun]

Hi Ben,
Thank you for taking the time to ask, Yes I believe that if they tried to rotate their stock it would generate more interest ie:more ticket sales ,more members ect...a win/win kinda thing.I hope to make you/all aware that I planned this and spent aloty of money on our first vacation,and alot driving there on my second....why are people donating if it is not avail to the average person??????All other establishments rotate their inventory, right?
anywho- just a rant because it was stated that people were put off and not attending as they used too,well get your head out of the hole and look.

[StevenBauer]

This thread isn't about attendance at the Seaport, it's about attendance at the John Gardner Small Craft Workshop, an event that's been held every Spring for something like 38 years. If you attend the Workshop you are allowed into the Small Craft storage facility where there are hundreds of boats and artifacts. See this thread: www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66959


Steven

[Ben Fuller]

I agree that boat exhibits should be rotated, but its not as easy as paintings..... most museums don't rotate them much as it takes time to move boats: at Mystic just to get a boat from storage down to the campus could take a couple of people half a day assuming that there was lifting ability at each end. And that is for a little boat. When I did Native Legacy for the Seaport back around 2000 I think it took at least two weeks to shift the boats that were selected and they were mostly small. Car exhibits are much easier as the stuff rolls.

The new museum in Cornwall has made a commitment to shift its exhibit annually but boat exhibits is all they do.

What this comment speaks to is the improvement of visible storage, and having storage accessibility as a special feature, one that cannot be duplicated any where else in this country.

[stevedwyer]

It's always been a stretch for me to take in everything available during the weekend workshop.
Something of a trade-off between sailing/ rowing Saturday, the workshops and catching up with others.
Then the early morning gathering on Sunday out to Mason's Island... The Watercraft Collection and the Ship's Plans.

There's never enough time!

My first visit to Mystic Seaport was for the JGSCW and I've returned since several times after becoming a member during that weekend.
I think it would be a mistake to view this event in isolation. I know many others have gotten hooked in just the same way.
It was a few years before I brought my first boat. The thing is, the spirit of this event has a ripple effect,
which encourages the many spectators to get involved as participants, at Mystic and elsewhere.

[Ben Fuller]

How many of you who have commented on this topic will be at Mystic for the WoodenBoat show? Dana Hewson is putting together a Saturday brainstorm and will be contacting all that have posted to this with dates and times. Would make it easier if you could put a note on topic in forum.

[David Cockey]

We'll be in Mystic for the Saturday discussion.