Filling 5/8" counter sinks

[J_Boat]

First post from a real amateur working on his first really big project.

I'm rebuilding a 1954 Palmer Scott J-Boat built for the USACE. See http://bellsouthpwp.net/g/o/goBoating/. It is no fancy yacht but I think she'll turn into a neat lobster-ish picnic weekender. Now for the question...
In keeping with her work boat roots, I've used pressure treated pine (no teak here) for new toe rails. And, consistent with the old (rotted off) rails, they are through bolted with HD Galv. stove bolts with the heads slightly counter sunk. All decks and rails and such will be painted. So, what to fill the counter sinks with. I could cut wood plugs and glue them in but that seems labor intensive especially since they will be painted. Any ideas about fillers that would work well?

TIA

[J_Boat]

oh yeah... pics of the stbd rail dry fit in place..
http://bellsouthpwp.net/g/o/goBoating/toe_rail.html

[gary porter]

TIA, If you cut some plugs and glue them in it will be much easier later on down the road to replace the bolts and or the rail. However, if you want fill them now quickly then mix some woodflour in epoxy to the point where it doesn't run off the mixing stick and with a small squeegee fill them in. This too can be removed later but not as easy. Its quick and seals the hole well.
Gary

[Dave R]

Countersinks or counterbores? Gary makes a good point. If you think you'll need to repair/replace that rail sometime in the future, wooden plugs would be desirable. I would not glue them in but would stick them in with varnish to make them a bit easier to remove if you have to.

They really aren't all that labor intensive when you consider that you'll likely have to go back and refill some areas if you just fill the holes with putty or epoxy. Either way you'll be sanding. I'd rather sand wooden plugs than epoxy but that's just me.

[Bruce Hooke]

How deeply have you set the bolt heads? If it's less than 1/4" then I have my doubts about how well bungs will stay in place...

[J_Boat]

Thanks for the replies.... I've built and repair lot's of stuff before but this is the first really large project of this sort.... Thinking through even the most trivial of issues in boat building can sometimes be a challenge. What seem like inconsequential decisions can bite later. Your contributions are appreciated.

The counter sinks are about 1/4" deep on top of the bolt heads. So, plugs/bungs may be difficult. I might should have made them a little deeper.... and still can as the piece is just dry fit at present. It must be removed, painted, and reinstalled with an appropriate bedding. http://bellsouthpwp.net/g/o/goBoating/stbd_bow_view_lowres.jpg

It is interesting that you guys have expressed ( and I've seen in a few other threads) a concern about getting the bungs then bolts back out in the future. When I started demolition on the hull, I had a bugger of a time getting the original stove bolts out as they just spun in their holes when I tried to remove the 'square' nuts. (... annoying square nuts.) During the demolition, in order to remove the remnants of the old toe rails, I had to cut enough wood away around each bolt head to get a pair of vice grips on it and then go underneath to remove the nut....very labor intensive. Consequently, I had been leaning toward using something that would glue the bolt heads into the holes. If I needed to remove a bolt, hopefully the 'glue' would hold the bolt long enough for me to break the nut loose...... ponder.... ponder.... Your responses have made me start to rethink the 'glue the bolts heads' approach. If, in the future, I need to replace a portion of a rail, it does not bother me a lot to think about excavating the bolt heads..... I'll be discarding that section of rail anyway....ponder ponder (Aside: Does anyone remember Pogo?)

Thanks again...

[Dave R]

Hmmm....if you are using stove bolts as the fastener, maybe you don't really need to get at the head anyway.

I assume you've set the stove bolts so the shoulder under the head has cut a mortise for itself when you dry fitted the rail. I would ponder, ponder putting a little epoxy in the holes to soak into the wood before putting the rail back on so you can toughen the wood around the mortise. That way you won't have to excavate around the head if you ever decide to remove the rail.

Hint: use hex nuts instead of square. the square ones are annoying. ;)

Back to your pondering, now.

[J_Boat]

Originally posted by Dave R:
Hmmm....if you are using stove bolts as the fastener, maybe you don't really need to get at the head anyway.

I assume you've set the stove bolts so the shoulder under the head has cut a mortise for itself when you dry fitted the rail. I would ponder, ponder putting a little epoxy in the holes to soak into the wood before putting the rail back on so you can toughen the wood around the mortise. That way you won't have to excavate around the head if you ever decide to remove the rail.

Hint: use hex nuts instead of square. the square ones are annoying. ;)

Back to your pondering, now.The stove bolt shoulders have cut seats for themselves. Your idea about hardening those seats makes good sense. ' Easy to do and would likely make the bolts easier to remove. I like it.

I don't know that stove bolts are the 'best' fasterner, but, they are consistent with the original build. While I am obviously changing the wheel house significantly, I hope to maintain a lot of the look and feel of the original work boat aesthetic so I tend to try to put things back the way they were (with more modern paints/ sealants/ adhesives and such). Granted the bolts will be out of sight, but using stove bolts (as opposed to hex heads) is the result of my general tendency to put stuff back the way I found it unless there is a compelling reason not to. (Aside: I have decided that there is a compelling reason to avoid square nuts. ;) )

Thanks for the thoughts....

[Jack Heinlen]

Bondo. It's cheap, easy to work, adheres well, is relatively easy to remove if need be.

[Ron Williamson]

FYI
You can buy 8-point sockets for those square nuts,and those bolts with the square shoulders are carriage bolts.

[J_Boat]

Originally posted by Ron Williamson:
FYI
You can buy 8-point sockets for those square nuts,and those bolts with the square shoulders are carriage bolts.You're obviously absolutely correct. They are carriage bolts. I don't know where 'stove' came from (..... more pondering)... my brain obviously. I tried a couple of 8 pt sockets and wrenches of various descriptions on the little buggers, but the nuts were not wonderfully uniform in shape or size and were often heavily coated with HD galvanizing. The only dependable tool ended up being an open end wrench..... annoying. I ran into the same issue on toe rail, rub rail, and spray rail.... several hundred iterations.

Bondo sounds like a good option.

As usual, thanks for the thoughts/ideas.