unbelieveable

[kulas44]

You guys will not believe this. I was recently given the chance to look at a 67 ft. (glass) sailboat being built by the person that has contracted to do some finish work on my boat. He was VERY proud of the frameing under the floor (his words). It's all 2x6 white pine (he has never heard of Cuprinol) from Home Despot. It is screwed together with the best steel deck screws four bucks can buy and glued with Liquid Nails. The real kicker is that he used steel rafter hangers (whatever they are called) at all the intersections. He then painted over all this with (again his words) Poly Acrylic, for ultimate protection, forever !!! What's really interesting is that this fits right into the grand scheme of this boat. The previous owner spent 15 years building the hull in a field with whatever poly resin he could get, and any kind of glass that was free or very cheap. He never knew the difference between waxed or laminateing resin !! and the the hull was never covered, this is in s.e. Texas. It's hot as hell and rains a lot then the dirt blows for days at a time, good place to build a big boat outside. My carpenter sold his home in Ca. and paid the the old boy $68,000 for the empty hull, and was sure it was the deal of a lifetime. They have since (4 years after purchase) gotten it to the fine shape it's in now. The living space is beautiful, it's amazing what can be covered with oak paneling. I was really amazed when I looked at the engine install. It is a ford 6 cylinder diesel (Lehman, great engines) that has been bolted to 1/2 in. thick steel junk iron and then solidly and heavily laid into the hull with f.g. no rubber whatsoever. Then the rudder,,,, it is huge, 6 ft. tall, made with welded stainless, hollow, attached to a 3 in. solid stainless shaft, the entire thing glassed over. The shaft runs through another s.s. tube that is glassed into the hull, heavily. The boat is in the water now (minus any masts, steering or motor power) and the rudder is frozen solid. The owner insists that once he gets the hydraulics hooked up it will free right up. All very interesting, I enjoy just being around this guy. I will watch him very closely on my boat!!!!

[Venchka]

Takes all kinds.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[John Bell]

"...person contracted to do some finish work on my boat."

You immediately canceled the contract, right?

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Damn, $68,000 for an empty, unfinished hull. Geez
they saw him coming.

Still, he may not be building a boat that will live along time. And home depot lumber is ok, at least for a while. Pity though he does not avail himself for Forum advice- which we have all profitted from.

[kulas44]

When he is done this will be a million dollar showboat. And as for the forum, quote " they're idiots" from his own mouth when I put forth an argument for useing anything but steel screws. As for canceling the contract, I wish- but he's already been paid (yeah yeah, I know, two fools met- fool and his money soon parted, I'm kickin myself as we speak)

[kulas44]

to quantify my last statement, he seemed like a great guy and his work looked ok. Moveing the boat had left him in a jam financially and to help him out I fronted some money (9 thousand) for future work. All was well until I wanted to use different materials than he was accustomed to. Namely, silicone bronze, s.s. and urethane adhesives, and absolutely no polyester resin. As far as he was concerned it was a terrible waste of money, and he wanted nothing to do with it. If it was good enough for his boat it's good enough for anyones. I have been told on numerous occasions "if you loan money to a friend you will lose them both" it's still true.

[ssor]

Originally posted by kulas44:
to "if you loan money to a friend you will lose them both" it's still true.And it is usually worth every cent! :(

Ross in Bel Air

[Mrleft8]

I'd tell him to use the materials that you specify, or return your money. No sense in having the work done on your boat last as short a time as his will.

[Noah]

I know a local guy like that as well. He has an old wooden boat that he is "rebuilding." A few years ago I came by and started to chat with him. I mentioned this forum, and the internet in general as a way to get information about boat restoration. "Nope, that whole internet is stupid!" was his response. Ok I say, then he shows me where he had just installed cheap automotive grease fittings to the outside (outside of the hull) of all his seacocks and stuffing box so they "would turn easier..."

[Bob Smalser]

Why would that surprise you? Even if he asked for advise, human nature is to shop around until you get the answer you like.

Heck, there's no shortage of bad advise given on various forums....yes....even right here.

Here's another example...this from a "professional" cabinetmaker who wanted to know how to keep from drilling thru a hull he didn't know the thickness of to install some cabinets:

http://www.woodworking.org/Exchange/Forum2/HTML/020950.html

[Keith Wilson]

I just hope he doesn't try to sail the boat offshore with his family or guests. If it sinks under him, that's only another nomination for a Darwin award, but I'd hate to see anyone else go with him. Although from the sound of it, he probably won't get that far.

[kulas44]

the work that he will be doing is mostly cosmetic and the boat he will be working on is just an old 54 ft. Krogen trawler that my wife and I will use for several years to go cruiseing with. The structural work is being done by me- for my own peace of mind, if I screw it up I can only blame myself. I do have to say that almost anything is better than how it was made originally. He seems to be very good at putting lipstick on a pig, from what I've seen so far.

[kulas44]

I tried to explain the process of getting a boat insured (survey, etc) without hurting his feelings, to no avail. I then alluded to the fact that without proper construction a boat will not be insured for anything offshore, per a surveyers recomendation and that a boat that size must meet certain requirements and that it was unlikely it would ever pass an insurance exam. His response was that the quality of his build would be his insurance !!!! I tried to explain to him that the loss of his boat was the smallest expense the insurer is concerned about, that if his large boat breaks lose during a hurricane and thrashes my little 44 ft. sportfisher next to it, he is personally liable, all this on deaf ears. Denial is SO COOL.

[Bob Cleek]

These are the guys that eat up millions of our tax dollars calling "Mayday!" The USCG CAN prohibit a vessel from leaving port if it is deemed unseaworthy. Maybe he should consider that.

[kulas44]

Our marina requires insurance, not for owners protection but for there's. I don't know how he got around that. He has built in a seperate berth for paid charters, no way, first you need a capt. license, then coast guard inspection, the U.S.C.G. inspector would go nuts and probably condemn the boat. As it is a surveyor will never stop laughing, his list of changes required would be bookish. You are exactly right, thats why the coast guard costs what it does. Also, this person has NEVER been out in the water on a boat, sail or otherwise, has never been sailing and doesn't know a mizzen from a main. The first time I talked to him I asked if the boat would be ketch rigged, he said he hadn't decided yet. I suggested useing a junk rig, cheaper and easier to setup, he said "no, I'm gonna use all new stuff" I shoulda caught on then.

[Bob Smalser]

The owner of the boat that caused last year's big marina fire in Seattle is being sued by the US Dept of Justice for a half million dollars in cleanup.

And that's probably just the start of that boat owner's woes.

[sawcutmill]

Bob, Why the Dep't of Justice?
Can you explain the flow chart of what, why and who got involved? This is a very interesting topic, and I especially liked the comment about the junk rig!LOL! stephen

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by sawcutmill:
Bob, Why the Dep't of Justice?
Can you explain the flow chart of what, why and who got involved? This is a very interesting topic, and I especially liked the comment about the junk rig!LOL! stephenJust heard a glimpse of it on NPR today.....sounds to me like DOJ is acting on behalf of either the Coasties or NOAA.

Here's the 2002 Lake Union fire:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/71043_boatfire18.sht ml (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/71043_boatfire18.shtml)

And here's the lawsuit:


The Justice Department has charged a Seattle house-barge owner and her son with a series of civil infractions, alleging the pair caused a May 2002 fire that destroyed nearly three dozen boats at a marina on Lake Union.

Asalee "Rusty" Beck, 54, and Christopher Beck allegedly caused the fire and resulting oil spill by failing to keep their vessel, the Nasty Boy, water-worthy, creating a "danger and a menace to navigation and the maritime environment," the complaint said.

The complaint, filed in U.S. District Court in Seattle, seeks reimbursement for the cost of the environmental response to the spill — estimated to be at least $500,000.

The complaint seeks any money the Becks receive from insurance.

The fire started aboard the 32-foot Nasty Boy at the Seattle Marina. It spread to 31 other vessels, causing $10 million in damage. Twenty-eight of the boats sank, seven of them live-aboards.

The complaint did not explain what the Becks did or didn't do to create that alleged danger. The Seattle Fire Department ruled the cause of the fire accidental and electrical.

Justice Department officials did not comment. The Becks could not be reached.

The day after the fire, Rusty Beck told The Seattle Times, "We plan to rebuild. We have a million-dollar view."



[ 06-10-2005, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[wyndham]

There are lots of people out there with big dreams and big wallets and little itty bitty toolboxes short on common sense.
Check out www. schoonerdolphin.com. This boat has very impressive website, lots of pictures, all kinds of fancy copy.
I have watched these guyse replank a boat with prseeure treated lumber and bright steel bolts. Pull it all off again and replank with sawmill lumber of who knows what. Some if looks like hemlock, some of it looks like pine. The frames have so many holes in them that it's frightening.
A few years ago they replaced the sheer strakes and planks and covering boards with presure treated 2x10 then glasssed it all over.
One of the foredeck hatches is a standard plastic roof deck bubble skylight. The deck house, I guess you could call it a pilot house is some fiberglass and ply wood monstrosity.
They claim they are going to be ready for worldwide charters in '07! Happy trails to you........

[JimD]

Facinating, as Mr Spock would say.

[Bob Cleek]

The environmental clean up costs (fuel spilled from sunken boats) are assessed the vessel owner by the feds. The federal government's lawyer is the U.S. Attorney's Office, which is part of the Department of Justice. I would say that in this day and age the environmental clean up laws are the best reason of all to carry liability insurance, and also the reason that has become so expensive. These days, when a boat sinks or goes up on the rocks, the first thing they do is isolate the spill and pump out the fuel. Only then does anybody bother trying to save the boat!

[Gary E]

Did Exxon ever pay a fine for the Alaska spill or is it still in the courts?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

He seems to be very good at putting lipstick on a pig, You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

You can, however, make a passable sow's ear out of a silk purse. :D