Varnol vs. Deks Olje

[paulgill]

Are these essentially the same? I have an acre of brightwork on my Walsted sloop and would like to try an oil finish. Varnol/Norwegian varnishing oil sounds simpler to apply. Is there a US distributor?

[Dick Wynne]

No, Deks is a synthetic oil, Varnol is some sort of pine tar derivative I believe. Can't speak for Varnol but have done the large acreage of teak on my whaler with Deks, Nos 1 and 2 for a gloss finish, and am delighted with it. Time will tell regarding the claimed low maintenance, but other users rave about it so that's good enough for me. Elsewhere you'll read there are two kinds of Deks users, those who swear by it and those who swear at it; these correspond exactly to those who follow the instructions to the letter, and those who don't. You apply #1 every 15 mins or so until the wood just won't take any more, typically 3-6 applications, then apply #2 if you want a gloss finish.

[Thorne]

The only other similar oil-based very trad varnish that I'm aware of is Le Tonk, available from www.tarsmell.com .

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I've had excellent service with Deks #1 and #2 on Spruce masts. Applying all those coats of #1, followed by six coats of #2 has an element of Zen about it.

As one of my brothers believes, you never "apply the last coat of varnish". You wait untill it dries before deciding whether it needs another.

Moby Nick

[Dave Thibodeau]

Made a serious effoort to use Deks Olje on a Herrishoff Eagle which has a vast amount of teak for a 22' boat

My expereience was that it turned to crud in three months

[merkin muffley]

AARRGH-Flood Co. is no longer producing Deks Olje. Anyone have much experience with a substitute? I've been using it on cedar for years with good results. Compatability with a different product on boats already out there may be an issue as well.Any input would be appreciated-Cheers!

[StevenBauer]

I was down at Hamilton Marine this afternoon after reading the above post about Deks not being available and asked the clerk if they had any left. I was hoping to buy a quart of #2 as we only got two coats on the Elf last summer and wanted to add a few more. He said someone had just come in and bought all they had. :( Then he thought some more and said he thought he'd seen someone return a can and it might be on the clearance rack. Sure enough, there was a gallon can there of #2and he gave it to me for 20% off. :)


Steven

[merkin muffley]

I spoke with the the technical dept. at Flood Co. (I think they were bough out by Akzco-Noble!) and not only are they not eliminating their marine line, but since it is a "proprietary formula" they will not be selling the recipe to anyone else to produce. Perhaps enough e-mails from former users would Help. Out

[merkin muffley]

OOPS- what I meant to write is that Flood IS quitting production of not just Deks Olje but their entire marine line. SO- the question of compatability arises- since the tech dept at Flood would not share any chemistry with me-I guess the only way to see what works over previous coats of Deks Olje is experimentation. Does anyone out there have experience with Penofin Marine penetrating oil? How about Olympic? Consumer Reports claims Olympic Waterguard was the choice for a clear sealer on house decks (and it is only $14 a gallon).

[David G]

I'm wondering why Sikkens Cetol Marine isn't being mentioned.

[merkin muffley]

Sikens is a surface finish and not a penetrating oil-while not requiring as much labor to apply and maintain as varnish- it is still in my experience too hard for exposed cedar on the interior of small boats-even the so called "clear" version will build up on the surface to a dark orange- eventually and messilly obscuring the wood grain.The best success I have had is with Deks Olje-but now I'm afraid we"ll need a substitute

[hikingchrs]

The only other similar oil-based very trad varnish that I'm aware of is Le Tonk, available from www.tarsmell.com .


is Le Tonk like deks, or Varnol?

[merkin muffley]

Deks Olje isn't a varnish or a pine tar derivative-the formulation was such that it was extremely thin and would soak into the grain- when applied wet on wet every 15 mins or so it would saturate the grain of cedar quite well.

[StevenBauer]

is Le Tonk like deks, or Varnol?

Le Tonk is more of a traditional varnish than the others. Due to it's lack of solvents it smells great and is a pleasure to use. Builds quickly and bonds to itself without needing to sand the previous coats, easy to touch up later. Lasted better than Epifanes in the ClassicBoat 4 1/2 year long varnish test. I've used it on all my small spars.


Steven

[merkin muffley]

Le Tonk sounds great-I'd like to try some-but I'm looking for a replacemt,penetrating,non-surface finish like Deks was. Do you have any experience with other oils such as Penofin?

[StevenBauer]

I've had good results with Penofin but not in a marine environment. I've used it on decks for clients on Meranti and Ipe and Cumuru. Recoated every other year it looks great.


Steven

[merkin muffley]

So Steven-If you've used it on such dense woods I'm going to give it a shot on cedar. The "marine" version is a clear product- in your experience did you use the opaque product? Also-I see you are from Portland-you must have run across my buddies David Geary of "Hampshire Ale" fame or maybe Richard Pfieffer of "Gritty McDuffs"?I will be in Portland within the next 3-4 weeks-see you at Gritty's? Cheers, John

[StevenBauer]

I've met David Geary a couple of times over the years. His Hampshire Special Ale is my favorite beer by far. I complimented him on it one time and he told me it was "stay at home beer". Pretty strong stuff. I only know Richard from his radio ads. :) I had a pint at Gritty's just last week. Let me know when you are in town.

Steven

[hikingchrs]

Hi, Steven
do you think Penofin would be compatiable with deks, I used deks on my seats and floorboards of my CY and would like to recoat my seats before the start of the season...
Thanks
Chris

[StevenBauer]

Chris, there's no way I'm going to use the whole gallon of #2 that I bought. I'll sell you a quart if you want. :)


Steven

[hikingchrs]

Thanks Steven,
I still have alittle #1... my original plan was to only use 1 every couple of years. I am sort of annoyed that they stoped making the stuff...I wanted to maintan the kinda flat workboat look to my seats.
Chris

[merkin muffley]

Hey-Someone who has some deks left can really help a lot of people with compatability tests! I just tried come penofin marine clear and it is a not very attractive yellow color. Moved on to try Olympic Waterguard(highly rated by Consumer Reports) and much to my chagrin Olympic is stopping production on that productas well.(VOC requirements) Anyone have any ideas?

[Bill Perkins]

I'm looking at (literally reading my unopened can as I post ) " Natural" Watco Exterior Wood Finish . "UV ,moisture & mildew resistant finish " . I'm going to try this on a White Oak hand grab that's out in the weather .

[Todd Bradshaw]

In terms of it's look, Watco may be about as close as you'll come to Deks #1. The application process though is rather different. If you try to build up a lot of coats of Watco, wet-on-wet, it usually gets sticky and takes a long time to dry. You can, over an extended period of time, build up a nice oiled finish that's prettty durable using Watco and applying it on a weekly basis, but as far as I've been able to tell, the wood isn't truly protected for quite a while as you begin building up the finish. This is where Deks #1 was far superior. You could apply multiple coats about as quickly as you could get them on and keep it up until the wood stopped absorbing the stuff. Within a day or two, the surface was dry and ready to go.

Deks#1 is quite a bit thinner and lighter than Watco. I suspect it may contain a lot more solvent and perhaps that is a factor in the application process and quick drying. I don't know what would happen if you diluted Watco to a similar, water-like, thin consistency, but it might be worth a try on some scrap.

[Bill Perkins]

I see Rust-Oleum Corp. has bought Watco . Interesting thought about thinning the first coats .The solvent is mineral spirits . Maybe heating the product would help drive it in ?

Here's one outdoor furniture outfit that endorses the product.http://www.sittineasy.com/content/view/27/37/

[merkin muffley]

Tried some penofin marine oil on unfinished cedar and it smelled so strongly in my shop I had to put the test board outside.Tried some cabot cedar "clear" (oil based) "stain" and it looks good but doesn't penetrate anything like deks. It would probably need more maintenance than deks but is readily available. Gonna try some with penetrol added to see if I can get better penetration. I've used watco interior on walnut furniture and got great results with wet sanding during application. Have not tried it in awhile and they did change the formulation. They removed the benzene just because it was a proven carcinogen.(wimps!) We need more folks to try different stuff and report!

[HossMon]

Hi M8's. I stumbled across this thread when I was researching whether it was true Flood had stopped producing Deks Olje.
I immediately went scouring the internet looking for sites which still had stock. And for anyone interested I found two such places.

I spoke with these people by phone and they had 20 Gals of Deks #1 in stock, well 18 after my order :)
http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/209-01Q.htm



And not sure how many Gals of Deks #2 these folks had but sounded like quite a few. A very nice price I might add!
https://www.seattlemarine.net/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=8165

Hope this helps someone out, I know I'm now well stocked!
I was also informed by Seattle Marine that Deks is still being produced in Europe, but not here in the states. Not sure if that's really true. But does make one hope that we may still indeed be able to buy Deks in the future here.

[Kaa]

Any update on the search for Deks Olje replacements..?

Kaa

[onobleboat]

Last time I looked Jamestown Distributing was still showing Deks in stock, I have had good luck for years using varnish cut 50% with mineral spirits, soaks into almost anything and you can keep it wet for a long time, finishes very well with Deks #2

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi all
any up dates on decks olje or a subistute?
Im looking for a replacement as well.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Alan and Chris]

Sikens is a surface finish and not a penetrating oil-while not requiring as much labor to apply and maintain as varnish- it is still in my experience too hard for exposed cedar on the interior of small boats-even the so called "clear" version will build up on the surface to a dark orange- eventually and messilly obscuring the wood grain.The best success I have had is with Deks Olje-but now I'm afraid we"ll need a substitute
I was going to use International CLASSIC varnish (got Tung Oil in it) on mahogany topsides/cabin but got suckered in to using sikkens. Lot of pigment in the one I chose so, as you say, it starts to obscure the grain. Also, it's not too hard wearing, compared to the almost glass finish of Classic. How's the best way to remove it|?? Probably hard scraping & elbow-grease.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
I believe that Deks Olje is produced by Owatrol in Spain. I haven't chased up to see whether they're still producing it, even if Flood's apparent dog-in-the-manger attitude means it's no longer manufactured in the US. (However, I doubt that the "recipe" was Flood's to sell at all, but rather, I suspect that they were only making the product under licence and so couldn't sell the formula even if they wanted to.)

Interested parties could follow up if desired by contacting Owatrol International (www.owatrol.com/) direct.

Mike

[blschultz]

I just ran across this web site for Dek Olje. I haven't tried to order from them yet, but this the only new site i see for it. www.deksolje.com (http://www.deksolje.com)
I used Deks for years and have never found anything better or even close to the same.

[peter radclyffe]

the bad news about deks is new to me, the brigantine Soren Larsen, Auckland has used it for maybe 20 years

[ddorgan]

Hamilton Marine seems to have it.
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/cleaners-waxes/teak-cleaner-sealers/deks-olje-1-1-litre--------------------------------114184/4,5049.html

They also list Le Tonkinois on their website.

[StevenBauer]

Yep, Hamilton Marine has the Owatrol Deks Olje, #1 and #2. And they have Le Tonk on the shelf. I feel very lucky to have them right in town. Their prices are way less than West Marine just a half mile away.

Steven

[AuSable riverboat]

The Deks #1 at Hamilton Marine says on there site that it cleans up with soap and water. The Deks #1 in my shop is cleaned up with paint thinner. Somethings different.

[ddorgan]

I think that Hamilton Marine gives a misleading description of cleaning. The Owatrol site information suggests that soap and water are appropriate for cleaning of a cured surface, but 'cleanup' of tools, etc, is done with white spirits.

[JotM]

Reading http://www.floodaustralia.net/products/deksolje.htm I would suspect "Flood" (Akzo Nobel or Durieu) is still producing. Just in some other corner of the world.

Edit: Owatrol D1 = Deks Olje
As the Benelux trademark register shows (http://register.boip.int/bmbonline/details/trademark/show.do?markID=128977&markNumber=350140&markNumberType=REG) "Owatrol" and "Owatrol Deks Olje" were registered by the Flood Company in respectively 1971 and 1977.
The European trademark register shows (http://register.boip.int/bmbonline/details/trademark/show.do?markID=980235&markNumberType=EUR&markNumber=610550) the "Owatrol" brand was sold to Akzo Nobel in 2007 (when it aquired Flood), who in turn sold it to the French company Durieu (http://www.rustol.com/gb/documentation.php) earlier in 2009.
The newly branded MSDS of Deks Olje is here (http://recherche.quickfds.com/cmt_bin/wfds-view?NFou=OS25.EN&CCli=&CPro=d101&View=Pdf&Lang=EN&NPro=&EMai=JotM@somewhere.com&NSoc=-&NCli=JotM).

[JotM]

I was going to use International CLASSIC varnish (got Tung Oil in it) on mahogany topsides/cabin but got suckered in to using sikkens.

:)

International Paint = Sikkens = Akzo Nobel :eek:

MSDS is here (http://www.sikkensyachtpaint.com/include/downloadfile.asp?id=57) (save as a pdf and then open it)

[Sharpie21]

This thread just petered out without anything very definitive being concluded. So I will give it a bump to see if Le Tonk has become the penetrating finish of choice for a good looking, yet rough and ready boat.

[Daedalus]

For those who are looking for Deks Olje, it is again available from Flood Australia.
I managed to buy some from a stockist in Dubai!

http://www.floodaustralia.net/international-stockists.php

Mike Guy
Bristol Channel Cutter 'Adventure'

[StevenBauer]

Le Tonk is a varnish finish. Desk Olje is the oil finish I prefer.