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View Full Version : pettiness. and a doggie walk in the park.



S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 08:50 AM
Mystic has a small park..Not extremely large about 250'x150' right along the river. Every morning approximately 20 people bring their dogs to this park to let them run and play.
Well, now the complaints are starting to roll in.. Dogs bark too much.. Dogs are not on a leash ( true but they don't go anywhere ). Bothering the condos across the river.
Now we walk the dogs between 0745 and 0830. No one else is in the park. We pickup after them ( doggie bags provided ). They don't go anywhere else.
Now we have to find another "park" to take our dogs.
Bummer.. this one is close at hand, concenient, easy to get to but some idiot has to squash it.
What the heck is a park for?

Joe (SoCal)
02-15-2008, 09:16 AM
Their are dog people and there are uuuuum ...... well lets just say people. These people in general like to exert control of some sort.

When I walk lucky there is a leash law in my village. But lucky is a big slow and fairly well behaved dog. Also even though he is big he doesn't have a mean bone in his body. If he encounters another dog he will great them with love and kindness. If the other dog should bark or growl Lucky just walks away. I secretly want to learn these traits from him ;) Anyway like all Labs he's all nose and loves to smell every single blade of grass and shrub. This can become a PITA especially on a leash. So the way I got around the leash law is I have a short leash that I put on him and drape over his back. Vola he's "ON" a leash.

I ALWAYS pick up after him, not only because it the correct thing to do but because he craps like a freaking horse :eek: But I still have people who while he is mid crap run up to me and make sure I have a bag :rolleyes: I always point out that I have one ready in hand ;)

Additionally I've heard that do to my imposing bald head, square bod, menacing goatee, and big dog look people are much more inclined for me and lucky to go on our way unopposed. Funny we both might look tuff but we have warm gooey centers :D

Hwyl
02-15-2008, 09:19 AM
What the heck is a park for?

I'm one of what Joe would call "People". I'd say that to turn Mystics small park into a dog toilet, is entirely unreasonable.

Joe (SoCal)
02-15-2008, 09:22 AM
I'm one of what Joe would call "People". I'd say that to turn Mystics small park into a dog toilet, is entirely unreasonable.

Its only a toilet if you don't flush (pick up after) other than that its a free open space for ALL to enjoy.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 09:24 AM
I'm one of what Joe would call "People". I'd say that to turn Mystics small park into a dog toilet, is entirely unreasonable.

That's what doggie bags are for Gareth... Provided at this park by the way. No poop when we show up..no poop when we leave.
The complaints were not about poop but about barking. And there isn't much of that. And it's not as though we are walking our dogs ( or allowing them to play and bark ) at 10pm, midnight, 5am... Hey, we walk them when the sun is up...

Joe (SoCal)
02-15-2008, 09:31 AM
Let me add Hwyl comments are exactly what people without dogs think ALL THE TIME. They always assume that when they see dogs out, their mind immediately goes to crap ;) They assume that all dog owners are irresponsible and think of the world as their dogs private toilet. When NOTHING could be further from the truth. Those dog owners know they are looked that way and NEED a park to walk their dogs so you KNOW they are going to be diligent about picking up after. But it ALWAYS assumed that if a dog is in the park the owner will let the crap remain. When what usually happens is if I see any other dog crap I'll pick it up to cover for the ONE inconsiderate dog owner. Would you ever see smokers do that with other smokers butts left by those who think the world is their personal ashtray.:(

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 09:33 AM
I'm just surprised that Gareth feels this way. He's a Brit.. Brits love dogs. The queen has dogs but I bet she doesn't have to pickup after the little corgis.

Tylerdurden
02-15-2008, 09:35 AM
People step in ****e everyday. They live in ****e lives so they just don't want to step in it for real.
I learned that no matter where you go its not good enough anymore.
I even had a neighbor complain about seeing my dog ****e while having his coffee, even though the dog was in my yard.:eek:
He stopped complaining after I told him I had raped guys like him in prison and started barking at him (pretty funny, my neighbor across the way heard it and fell of his chair laughing, still giggles at the though of it).

The only real solution is to just kill all the dogs, cats, bears, birds ,mice, snakes etc. etc. etc.

There is ****e everywhere, get used to it. Besides I would rather step in poo than have to deal with a banker, lawyer , accountant,
building inspector etc. etc. etc. That ****e doesn't wash off.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 09:39 AM
My old dog.. had no thyroid ( even with meds overweight ). Epilepsy etc. Wouldn't go anywhere unless the idea of food was the encouragement.
At that tiime, I lived in a golfing community in the Smokys. One evening, the neighbor from down the hill ( about 200' feet away from my house ) came to my door and complained that my dog had pooped on his lawn. I was horrified and said that I would be right down to pick it up. He said that he had done that. I apologized and wondered at the same time why my old dog would even go down to this guy's house. Then I got the answer.

Neighbor: " Maybe I shouldn't feed her!"

my silent response.. "WELL DUH!"

Joe (SoCal)
02-15-2008, 09:41 AM
Jamie I'm constantly amazed at how people can be baffled by simple systems ;)

LeeG
02-15-2008, 09:44 AM
If it's not a dedicated dog park, dogs are off leash and it causes a problem for some residents then what else can happen? Sounds like what happens to kids with skateboards. Time to disperse.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 09:47 AM
LeeG.. Doggie bags provided.. So, not sure whether this suggests the park is for dogs as well. One would think so otherwise bags WOULD NOT BE PROVIDED. Secondly..at that hour, only dog owners are there. NO ONE else...And I do mean, no one...

Hwyl
02-15-2008, 09:48 AM
Do you also carry disinfectant and water to clean every blade of grass.
I have no problem with you heaping your displaced affection on animals, just don't let them poop in public places.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 09:51 AM
okay Gareth, I'll toilet train her. And teach her not to bark when she's playing with other dogs.... Myust be a noise ordinance smewhere within the range of her bark...

martin schulz
02-15-2008, 09:52 AM
Like with smoking-laws (out in Germany since 1.1.2008) the laws are not made for those that are intelligent and keep in mind that their own "pursuit of happiness" shouldn't spoil other peoples "pursuit of happiness".

Unfortunately there are always idiots around and those idiots (those that blow smoke in your face, or those that let their dogs sh*t wherever they want to) makes it necessary to pass laws.

Generally a dog among humans behaves like living in a human-dog pack. In those packs, the leader of the pack decides where to p*ss and sh*t. The problem is that most people know nothing about their dogs, so the dog will walk all over them...

Hwyl
02-15-2008, 10:21 AM
okay Gareth, I'll toilet train her. And teach her not to bark when she's playing with other dogs.... Myust be a noise ordinance smewhere within the range of her bark...

That would be a good start.

Just playing devils advocate instead of doing the work I ough to be doing.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 10:24 AM
That would be a good start.

Just playing devils advocate instead of doing the work I ough to be doing.

Remember not to pee overboard Gareth.. the sea is public.:D

Mrleft8
02-15-2008, 10:26 AM
I think that there are 3 sides to this issue. Gareth is correct that whether you pick up the offending item or not, there's a certain amount of unsanitary residuals that get left behind (As it were). THAT SAID..... Birds, squirrels, and other wild creatures use the entire outdoors as their own public toilet, and no one really seems concerned about the potential of sitting on the grass where a bird may have just dropped an offering.
The third side is the side that I tend to subscribe to. I do not like visiting dogs crapping in the middle of my lawn. Webster doesn't do that, why should other dogs? When he was a puppy I encouraged him to go into the woods, in the underbrush, where it would be out of the way, and unlikely to cause any trouble for anyone. It could be that it isn't the dogs that people are particularly offended by, but rather the owners of the dogs who think that their dog is the center of the universe, aqnd that everyone else should worship him/her as the deity that they are.
It reminds me of a friend who had a little shop in town... A particular dog would, every day, come by and search for garbage, and crap in the parking lot. When my friend politely brought this little problem up with the dog's owner one day, the owner responded with; "Oh No....Cutie would NEVER do that! Cutie craps over there in the corner behind that tree. It must be another dog..."

rbgarr
02-15-2008, 10:39 AM
It's not necessarily a 'control issue'. I have a general fear of dogs. I was bitten by them when young, knocked off my bicycle twice, and attacked from behind by a junkyard dog once when pulling a steering column out of a junker. He bit me in the crotch. My sister was bitten in the face by a neighbor's dog when she leaned down to pat it. I'm not crazy about dogs running up to me in public places no matter how friendly, even when on a leash. A crowd of dogs running in a pack is especially frightening. The idea that dogs can sense fear (can they?) is worrisome also.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 10:44 AM
I don't like a few breeds ofdog.. well, I don't trust a few breeds Dave.. Anyone who delivers the papers probably has been bitten. I have... But I don't catagorize all dogs as biters.
It's a bit like being bitten by a lawyer. If bitten by one, does that make all lawyers biters? Umm.. maybe!!!!:D

Willin'
02-15-2008, 10:57 AM
I'm a dog owner and I have to side with Hwyl and Lefty on this. You are a transient and a guest in Mystic. You would be well advised to respect the customs and requests of your hosts. Don't blow it for those in your wake.

Take a short walk down River Rd and you'll find plenty of woods where the dog can romp. You'll both benefit from the walk.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=&city=mystic&state=ct&zipcode=#south

Joe (SoCal)
02-15-2008, 10:59 AM
Willin' ya make sense, as do you Lefty;)

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 11:03 AM
I'm a resident.. I live here. I have an address here. I bank here. Who is my host? One person who doesn't like to hear dogs playing?
Oh right, one can have rights provided another's rights are'nt infringed upon.
Going down River Road. Someone probably owns the property along it. Probably has signs that state no trespassing. As much is probably private property, than I would have a host ( landowner) and I wouldn't want to piss him off.
and how am I walking my dog etc. spoiling it for others who come after me? Oh right, they might have a dog..
Yup.. gotta bend over.. someone is upset and I have no rights.

I'm off to complain about those damn'd church bells. EVERY half hour,I gotta listen to them...Naw,I'll put that off tomorrow. I'm gonna go complain about those bloody trains. Make way too much noise in the morning. Nope, not yet.. I'm gonna go complain about the library opening up at 10.. I want it open at 8.Oh, I've got it.. Saw a copy of "Gone With the Wind" in the library the other day. I think it should be banned from there.. It uses politically incorrect language and we can't have that....Naw,I'll think of something else to complain about later...PETTY....PETTY yup!

Osborne Russell
02-15-2008, 11:10 AM
Problems of dogs are problems of an overpopulation of humans.

Lew Barrett
02-15-2008, 11:12 AM
Obviously the solution is that Mystic create a dog park, as many municipalities have done.

In truth, there is a park near our house with a leash law in place, and also in truth, we let our dog run free in it. But I don't kid myself. We're breaking the law, and any citizen who complains is within their rights. We only loose our dog when nobody else is around so he can get a good romp in. So far nobody has complained. But I don't kid myself. If somebody did complain, they would be within their rights.
Social contract and all that.
You have rights of course Jamie; just no right to break the law. Do so if you feel the law is unfair, or operate to change it, but expect the indignation of some neighbors and weight of the law to fall on you during the process of ignoring it.

Willin'
02-15-2008, 11:14 AM
I'm a resident.. I live here. I have an address here. I bank here. Who is my host? One person who doesn't like to hear dogs playing?
Oh right, one can have rights provided another's rights are'nt infringed upon.
Going down River Road. Someone probably owns the property along it. Probably has signs that state no trespassing. As much is probably private property, than I would have a host ( landowner) and I wouldn't want to piss him off.
and how am I walking my dog etc. spoiling it for others who come after me? Oh right, they might have a dog..
Yup.. gotta bend over.. someone is upset and I have no rights.

I'm off to complain about those damn'd church bells. EVERY half hour,I gotta listen to them...

Uh, I believe all the property tax payers in Mystic are your hosts. You know, your landlord, the owner of the marina where you slip your boat, the business owners where you shop and bank. You know, the locals. They'll be there long after you and your dog have sailed on. Why not bring up the subject at the next town meeting and see the response you get?

Sounds like you'd rather whine than be a conscientious guest.

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-15-2008, 11:15 AM
Mystic has a small park..Not extremely large about 250'x150' right along the river. Every morning approximately 20 people bring their dogs to this park to let them run and play.
Well, now the complaints are starting to roll in.. Dogs bark too much.. Dogs are not on a leash ( true but they don't go anywhere ). Bothering the condos across the river.
Now we walk the dogs between 0745 and 0830. No one else is in the park. We pickup after them ( doggie bags provided ). They don't go anywhere else.
Now we have to find another "park" to take our dogs.
Bummer.. this one is close at hand, concenient, easy to get to but some idiot has to squash it.
What the heck is a park for?

"We pickup after them ( doggie bags provided ). "
Are you certain? As a park user ( a runner) I can patrol miles of park land in a single hour. I can assure you that the vast majority of dog lovers use public parks as doggie toilets. Along the Cuyahoga towpath there are parking lots every 2-3 miles. In the county Metroparks system (in excess of 22,000 acres) they are much closer. You can always tell when you are getting near to the next parking lot because of the dog offal on the trail. It usually extends about mile in either direction.
It really gets bad when there is a long period of snow. The crap gets covered over and, when the snow melts, months of accumulation are suddenly exposed. The worst display I've ever seen was at the Cuyahoga Valley National Park Visitors Center . There is a restored lockkeepers house and an functional canal lock there. Because it is an educational attraction there is a large parking lot which attracts tons of those who do not want to have their pooch crap around the house. At the end of one winter the temperatrure suddenly soared revealing about a half ton of dog crap on the lawns, around the picnic tables and the pathways leading up to the lock. Can you imagine a school bus on a field trip disgorging a load of kids into such an unsanitary situation?
In 30 years of running I have covered thousands of miles in many dozens of large urban parks. The dog lovers in those parks are universally convinced that the rules only apply if there is someone around to enforce them. And, that they didn't drive all that way just to walk around with Fido tugging at a leash. Fido is my baby and if he wants to run thru' the woods and chase the deer he is damned well entitled to do it.
Your complaints have fallen on unfriedly ears here. Parks are for people and anything that makes the park unfreindly to people should be eliminated.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 11:34 AM
Chuck.. Firstly, I am not everybody. All I can say in response is that the usual crowd that show up with their dogs every morning DO pick up after their dogs.. myself included.. Now I can't say that others who walk by in the afternoon do..However, that crowd/individual is not the issue here.

IF some people read my first post, several points are mentioned and are obvious.

1) This is not about "poop". The complaint was not about "poop"
2) The complaint was about some dogs who play in the park at 0800 which in their enthusiasm, bark a bit. Not much actually but they do.
3) I also mentioned that we were/are the only ones there at that time of the day. No one.. literally, no one else is there. No one is walking by. No one is even out. I have been going every day for the past month. I have never seen anyone without a dog there at the time we go. So contact with nondog owners is nil.

So, read the post again folks. And again just for those who think it's all about "poop". I use the bag as do the 10-20 others.

Michael s/v Sannyasin
02-15-2008, 11:41 AM
Central Park has had a policy, that has worked out pretty well for the past 20 years. Before 10 AM and after 10 PM, dogs are allowed off leash. Most dog owners congregate in particular, concentrated, well known areas, so that if there are people who are afraid of dogs, or just don't like them who want to use the park at that time, they can stick to the other (vast) areas of the park. Or they can stay out of the park during those times if they are so emotionally scarred that they can't bear the possibility of encountering a dog off-leash (really, is that anybody else's responsibility?)

I think the issue boils down to tolerance. If everyone on every side is willing to give in a little, then we can all get along pretty well. It is when it gets too heavily one sided that I have a problem with it. (just like on a boat!)

Parks probably spend 10 times as much money for playgrounds for kids, than they do for pet owners. Is the single, pet owner's taxes worth less than those from the parents with children? Actually, no, as the parents with children get tax breaks, so they pay a lot less taxes.

Kids playing make a lot more noise than dogs and pee and poop just as much (probably more), and I don't know that parents are any more hygenic about cleaning up than dog owners are... I've seen parents change a baby right on a table top at a restaurant.

Yet, kids are welcome in restaurants, dogs are not, kids are welcome to run around unleashed in a park, dogs are not, and, I'll bet that Mystic has no such rules against kids in their park. (I'm all for parks designating a certain area as dog free, if it is an area that people want to lay out and sun themselves in, but space should be provided for both)

Having kids is a lifestyle choice, and having pets is a lifestyle choice, and having both is a lifestyle choice, as is having none of the above. There are many people who don't share my lifestyle choice and vice versa, however, I tolerate the differences... all I ask is that everyone find a way to do the same.

mmd
02-15-2008, 11:45 AM
So the condo owners got the park designated as a "no dogs" place? Fine. Form a barbershop quartet. Make sure that every member is retired and makes up for their lack of ability with volume. Meet in the now-dog-free park for practice every weekday at 8:00 am. Enjoy.

LeeG
02-15-2008, 11:46 AM
agreed, it's not entirely about poop, it's about someone in the neighborhood bothered by dogs making noise.

Does ANYONE use that park besides the 8am dog folks?

I could imagine if there were residents who used the park at other hours it would be an issue that it became a defacto dog park.

It really doesn't matter how many containers of plastic bags are provided, people do not pick up after their dogs. When I went to the dog park regularly I walked the perimeter and picked up four times as much and there was ALWAYS MORE.

But as you say it's not poop, it's noise. A yappy dog is an irritation no matter what.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 11:47 AM
So the condo owners got the park designated as a "no dogs" place? Fine. Form a barbershop quartet. Make sure that every member is retired and makes up for their lack of ability with volume. Meet in the now-dog-free park for practice every weekday at 8:00 am. Enjoy.

I'm thinking about replacing my bagpipes.

mmd
02-15-2008, 11:51 AM
Oh, Yesss!

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 11:55 AM
LeeG.. If a few dogs yapped as you say for hours.. even 40 minutes straight.. or howled, or what have you, I could see your point. Today, I actually couinted the # of barks by the dogs in the park. 20... and there were fifteen dogs.. Yips... maybe a dozen.. not even a bark...
Noise level.. low. Duration in the park 35 minutes out of a 24 hour day. Damn'd garbage truck made more noise.

Hwyl
02-15-2008, 11:56 AM
I'm thinking about replacing my bagpipes.

I can give you the name of a good taxidermist

LeeG
02-15-2008, 11:57 AM
my sympathies, it's no fun having a good thing pissed on.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 12:08 PM
Gareth.. one of these days, someone is going to complain about something you do that either offends him, bothers him, or what have you. It may not be a park issue or a dog issue but it will be something. Perhaps the guy just wants to be petty. Perhaps he has a small ego and sees an opportunity to lift it up a bit. He may be someone who just doesn't like you and wants to make your life miserable for as long as he can. Anyway, I can foresee you raising your hackles a bit and your feelings that maybe your rights have been infringed upon. I'm actually not sure what the complainer's rights are that are being violated in my case but that is besides the point.
It will happen to you. If it does happen, I expect you to roll over and play dead. Maybe that's why you already know of a good taxidermist.
If people let someone walk all over them, then they will have tire treads running down their backs.
Again, it isn't just me walking my dog. The dog owners number between 5-15 or so depending on the weather. So, they no longer have their rights but some idiot living in a condo, complaining about a few barks lasting less than 1/2 hour sure has his.

Ian McColgin
02-15-2008, 12:22 PM
What is meant by complaints rolling in? Is someone official saying no dogs? Or no barking?

What actually is the problem? Perhaps someone in the condo just got stuck on swing shift and a new tenant is homebound and cranky or what?

Not all situations can be resolved, but all situations about which too little is known cannot be resolved.

Hwyl
02-15-2008, 12:24 PM
Jamie, I'm rattling your chain. I'd look to the title of this thread, and question who is being petty.

StevenBauer
02-15-2008, 12:26 PM
There is also the possibility that some non dog owners used to use the park at that hour but now they don't: because of the dogs.

I'm glad Portland has two nice, well used dog parks. One small one near downtown and one that is many acres of woods and fields. Russel Stover doesn't care which one I bring him to. He just likes to hang out with other dogs. :)

Steven

ishmael
02-15-2008, 12:26 PM
The last time I had a dog in town, Sheba, in Pittsfield, MA, I'd have an old codger come out and scream when she peed on his tree lawn. I always carried a bag for her poop, and was responsible. That said, there were a lot of people who weren't and walking those sidewalks was a bit of a mine field of dog crap.

My neighbor, Kevin, just lost an old dog and has replaced her with a couple beagles. They make a fair amount of noise some mornings and it's a bit annoying. He's pretty responsible, knows what's what, and will come out and shush them, but the last thing I want to hear on a summer morning at six AM is a couple beagles with their mojo working.

Sorry to hear you've lost park priviledge. That's tough, living on a boat.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 12:26 PM
I guess it's no barking. If it were no dogs, they would remove the poop bags which are located on every corner of the park.
The dogs are playing.. and yes, off the leash at that hour. We were not given tickets for having the dogs off leash though.. so, perhaps at that hour, it isn't a big deal and the dogs stay on the grass.I guess it comes down to
Dogs bark less while on leashes. I've never seen that myself. I find they bark more.

Also understand the complaint came from a condo manager across the Mystic River. The complaint was the barking... Heck, the condos are in WEST MYSTIC... Actually, there is no Mystic...and the park is on the Stonington side...

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 12:29 PM
I know gareth.. Perhaps all 15 of us dog owners are being petty. Perhaps the one condo manager is being petty... Umm, 15 to 1.
Steven.. could be right. But it is winter.. the mornings have been windy and cold for the most part. Literally no one is out there except us... Not even walking by. Heck, no one is even driving.

LeeG
02-15-2008, 12:32 PM
does anyone else use the park?

It really doesn't matter if there's bag dispensers on every tree, if you're used to sitting in a particular area you know when it's become a poop place.

Yep, it's barking. That's too bad. It must be a quiet place for a few dogs far away to be a bother. I wonder if there's a dog owner whos voice travels, at the dog park there's some people who are really irritating as they yell at their dogs or wail with baby talk.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 12:43 PM
LeeG.. Beong a park, I suppose people do. NOT AGAIN, as I have written, at that hour 0745.. I don't go there during the day.. That is my only time I step foot there. So, you ask but I don't know but assume so..

Ian McColgin
02-15-2008, 12:44 PM
I'm not one to really sympathize with the condo folk. A dog bark across the river is a nice country sound, but then Mother's fox hunting pack had about 60 couple and they could make a most enjoyable racket, especially at night if a fox came to the fence to taunt them.

If I were walking a dog in that park, I'd try to prepare against escalation by maybe going across the river some morning and listening, and trying in a friendly way to get a sense of who is really complaining about what.

It's well established among sanitarians that responsible dog owners using poop bags is perfectly adequate as the micro-bits of fecal material left after that will not bother picnicers or much of anyone, given the common sense of keeping the dogs out of children's play areas.

The habits of humans, including what they do with varous pets, must be modified by density. Years ago with low boating density, overboard discharge was just fine in salt water. Years ago it was true in a practical way that the solution to pollution was dillution. Just not so now.

It's not only in urban areas that dogs need to be leashed. In the wild, a dog is just the critter to go annoy a bear and then run back to hide between your legs. Or act like stupid uber-predator - rather like some slob-jerk hunters we all know.

But some dogs can be trained for the woods. My sisters lab mix, a fantastic water dog who's idea of a short swim is over 30 minutes, does not chase or even bark at wild animals or other dogs or cats. He'll look but not bother. One morning on our John Day River run last summer, when my brother and sister were still asleep, Maako and I took an early dip and were companionably enjoying the view after when a herd of elk walked easily within 60 meters of us. He just sat and watched.

Milo Christensen
02-15-2008, 12:53 PM
. . . Form a barbershop quartet. Make sure that every member is retired and makes up for their lack of ability with volume. Meet in the now-dog-free park for practice every weekday at 8:00 am. Enjoy.

Barbershop quartet, forsooth! Bagpipes are the only instrument that should be considered.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 12:59 PM
Barbershop quartet, forsooth! Bagpipes are the only instrument that should be considered.

read my earlier post re: bagpipes Milo...:D

paladin
02-15-2008, 12:59 PM
Periodically deer come out of the adjacent woods to sample the azalea bushes...Little critter runs like hell toward them...they are so accustomed to her they just look at her, nose to nose and don't run....
Dog owners I have problems with....being the last piece of property between the local neighborhood and the wetlands/beach, everyone wants to walk their dogs across my front yard and back yard and they don't clean up.....they carry a bag in their hands...but a couple of them let their monster crappers cut loose, look around then walk away.....so I'm the mean old bastard that had a 6 foot fence installed between the wetlands area and the end of the cul-de sac...now everyone has to walk a quarter mile around 3 blocks to get to a tiny strip of beach.....but little critter goes to the edge of the woods, so she can make friends with the local young ground hogs.

Michael s/v Sannyasin
02-15-2008, 01:02 PM
No, I can attest to the effectiveness of the barbershop quartet.

I lived for a while on 79th Street near the Museum of Natural History on the Upper West Side.

One night, after the bars closed down, this group of guys came staggering down the street and found a stoop to sit on a couple doors down from my bedroom window.

And they started singing. I thought it was pretty funny, and, it was enjoyable through the first few songs, but when they were still singing an hour and a half later (and getting more sloshed all the time), it was pretty much torture. Judging by all the screaming from nearby windows, I wasn't the only one who thought so.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 01:04 PM
Barbershop quartet, forsooth! Bagpipes are the only instrument that should be considered.

I'm also contemplating taking the 10gauge canon off the boat and setting it off in the park at sunrise. That should wake the guy up and all I'm being is patriotic.

ishmael
02-15-2008, 01:06 PM
"It's not only in urban areas that dogs need to be leashed."

Um, Sheba, and Margo can attest to this because she met her, was trained to be off lead. I always kept a lead in hand, but dogs in close settlement can learn learn proper manners without being on a lead.

It's like parenting. To train a good dog takes work. Sheba was pretty smart and learned quickly, but I spent quite a few hours with her on basics. Such a willing dog, and many aren't, just like people. With just a tinge of command in the voice, Sheba would come and sit beside me, even when she was quivering with excitement over meeting a new person. I walked her off lead regularly, because we'd come to trust one another. Not all dogs are so easy, or people.

merlinron
02-15-2008, 01:07 PM
lee g, good point......

my God, it's dog, dogs bark....... iv'e been more offended by peoples' attempts to stop thier dogs' barking than by the barking!

i take no offense towards people who don't like dogs, but wonder what's wrong with them because they don't. i can understand a fear of dogs as a result of something traumatic happening to them as a child or the like, but can't understand thier dislike for the sake of inconvenience, it shows self-center, a trait i dispise.

switters
02-15-2008, 01:19 PM
question: Would i be correct in assuming that those of you who walk your dog every day don't have a yard?

If you don't have a yard, why do you have a dog?

I have a dog, and a yard, and teenagers who need chores.

And for you special people who have trained your dogs so well that you don't need a leash, a true story.

I'm fishing in a county natural area, which has a leash law because its out in the country with deer and rattlesnakes etc. Its big country, poop is not the problem. I was casting large (3.5") topwater plugs for bass in the spring, and as I was releasing a cast a black lab blew past me, I didn't even know there was a dog within a mile of me. So the dog, not on a leash, has gone out in the water to help me retrieve my floating lure with the two large barbed treble hooks.

S.V. Airlie
02-15-2008, 01:23 PM
switter.. I have yet to see a boat with a yard.
Actually, most who go live in town and don't have a yard.
Why do I have a dog?..Company..and she is good on the boat.
Why do you have kids?

switters
02-15-2008, 01:58 PM
I was able to flip the plug out of the water before the lab had a mouth full of hooks. But it was close. It scared the hell out of me. All it takes is once, some unexpected stimulus and that dog is not in your control.

The kids came with the wife, they are teenagers now and I cant give them away or even get them neutered. :D

I can appreciate the need to have pets Mr. SV Arlie. And I don't want to outlaw pets for people that live in apartments, or boats etc. I guess I am tired of the 10% that give the rest a bad reputation and was venting on the yard thing. No one has to deal with my dog, why do I have to deal with yours kind of mentality there from me. As a consultant in the landscape industry I have seen the damage done to public spaces by an abundance of dogs. Not just to landscape but also to utilities. Oh well.

I still think the leash is a good idea, but I'm sure that can be disputed also, maybe only 10% of the dogs need a leash because of their owners. I don't know. It's been three years now and I still flash back on the black lab everytime I fish that part of the lake.


I will consider myself fortunate to have a good dog and big enough yard for us to run in and and I will STHU on this subject.

George Jung
02-15-2008, 02:24 PM
I had a great dog when I was a kid, (border collie mix) barked only for 'alarm', stayed on the property, worked livestock like crazy. That was in the country, not a problem. After I left home, my folks had a series of dogs, they didn't train, they ran, etc., not a good experience. That said, I have not had a dog since, having lived in towns/cities. It can be difficult to accomodate well in this scenario. I have had kids, still working on the training.

Every town is different in what their expectations are re: pet control. Where my sister lives, leash law, scooper laws, and if your dog is barking in your own yard, you will get a fine, followed by removal if the problem persists. No complaint from neighbors necessary.

In my town, there are no laws. Dogs run without fear of consequence; there's feces, not only in the parks (the supplied bags, a recent 'innovation', stand unused...) but on the park sidewalks. I walk daily, and one must be nimble if one wishes ones running shoes remain 'unstunk'. I have had a few neighbors who felt it their perogative to allow their dogs crap in my yard. Asking nicely was unsuccessful. Delivering the specimen to their front stoop was more so. I ride bike, and have been amazed at how many nice old guys will run their dogs onto other folks lawns if they think they're not home! They were a bit embarrassed at getting caught in the act - and I had a nice talk with them - but I've caught them more than once. So... it's more than just dog issues, eh? The comments on 'you're walking/sitting on bird poop/squirrel etc.'..... not a fair comparison. Try walking through, or sitting on, a load of dog crap. That is some foul stuff. I had to burn the last pair of tennis shoes that happened to. And if you have small kids who like to play in parks, a chance encounter with doggie doo isn't a very happy occasion.

Ideally, a dog park, separate from the kids, would be best. I like dogs. I'm not so crazy about some of their owners, though. And as always... YMMV.

George Roberts
02-15-2008, 04:09 PM
Not to pick on Joe:

"Its only a toilet if you don't flush (pick up after) other than that its a free open space for ALL to enjoy."

It is toilet even if you flush. People like to sit on the grass - including kids who put their dirty fingers in their mouths.

I would suggest that those who think cleaning up after a dog is sufficient to drink from a toilet. It seems about what is being asked for by some dog owners.

S.V. Airlie
02-17-2008, 07:24 AM
Well the issue was not pooping. This park is too small to find people sitting on it. Never have since I've been here. Perhaps Aug. is different. It is moreof a stripe of land along the dock( where people actually walk ) than a park but it is called a park.
There is nothing wrong with leases. C'dog is on a lleash except for the 25 min. I let her off to play with the other dogs. Then back to the leash..

This idea is that the dogs on a leash won't bark whereas dogs off a leash and playing will. Ten dogs on leashs and wanting to play will probably bark more so the original complaint barking is not going to end.

Acid test today...:D

elf
02-17-2008, 07:47 AM
Dogs smell. I don't like the smell. You cannot get it out of the hair. I've spun Samoyed, right after bathing and spring shearing at the groomers, with all those fancy shampoos. The white fluffy hat smells like dog in the rain. You cannot get the stink out of the dog.

I don't find dogs attractive, although I'm no longer quite so willing to declare, as I used to, that I don't like dogs.

Dogs fawn. I have no need or desire to be fawned over. I admire independence in my pets. I want them to have their own lives, not be waiting for me to make a life for them.

It is a good thing for a creature you care about to come when called. I appreciate that at least one of my cats comes when called. I wish the other one would also. I cannot get her out of the house if there's a fire if she won't come when called.

But the fawning is really unpleasant to me. Such insecurity. Even well-trained working dogs fawn.

Sad.

Tylerdurden
02-17-2008, 07:47 AM
Everybody is so busy protecting their ****e that they don't notice it will all be gone pretty soon. Cool, I am praying for a Tidal wave.

S.V. Airlie
02-17-2008, 08:06 AM
elf.. obviously you have never smelled a kitty litterbox or been in a house with one that is overflowing.
I don't mind cats.. don't want to own one. The claw the furniture. The kneed you legs, dig into your skin put holes in your your clothes. etc.
And they too smell.

Hey, each to his own...

Joe (SoCal)
02-17-2008, 08:10 AM
Not to pick on Joe:

SPEW :D you live for that :D



"Its only a toilet if you don't flush (pick up after) other than that its a free open space for ALL to enjoy."

It is toilet even if you flush. People like to sit on the grass - including kids who put their dirty fingers in their mouths.

I would suggest that those who think cleaning up after a dog is sufficient to drink from a toilet. It seems about what is being asked for by some dog owners.

As been pointed out all animals poo in the park. Squirrels, birds, green slimy geese poo, it was a toilet long before the dogs got there.

Point of fact we have a park down by the water that get so covered in geese poo that they prefer people to walk their dogs unleashed to chase and run the geese off. Ahhh the balance of nature in the war of poo :D

S.V. Airlie
02-17-2008, 08:15 AM
oh and fish poop in the reservoirs.. Don't drink the water!:rolleyes:

Oh forget the above. We are killing the fish with our shyte. Won't be a problem too much longer...

Ian McColgin
02-17-2008, 08:38 AM
"I don't drink water because fish f&#k in it."
- W. C. Fields

Hwyl
02-17-2008, 08:41 AM
Thanks for the accreditation Ian, I've been using that for years (usually substituting "swim" for "drink").

Tylerdurden
02-17-2008, 08:41 AM
Careful George, Joe's gang will get you.:D

http://www.valleyofthesundogrescue.com/images/rascals.jpg

elf
02-17-2008, 09:01 AM
elf.. obviously you have never smelled a kitty litterbox or been in a house with one that is overflowing.
I don't mind cats.. don't want to own one. The claw the furniture. The kneed you legs, dig into your skin put holes in your your clothes. etc.
And they too smell.
:D:D:D Me? Never smelled a cat box? Glad you're jesting.

But they don't fawn.

And if you don't wean them too early they don't kneed, and if you clip their nails they don't dig into your skin.

Ian McColgin
02-17-2008, 09:18 AM
All the cats that deigned to hang out with me liked a little rough play and I wore the scars on the backs of my hands with pride. Nothing like a little blood to seal the bond.

But I'll not take sides in the dogs v cats dispute, likeing both as well as horses and indeed most mammels, even a three-legged racoon I rescued who was nice to me though she did threaten other people and after a wild male got into her pen she ate the resultant litter.

With boats, however, sloops drool, cats rule.

Joe (SoCal)
02-17-2008, 09:21 AM
Lucky Dog and I have a great relationship we don't bug each other and we don't fawn over each other. He wakes me every morning with a gentle nudge maybe a lick on the hand if mine happens to be hanging over the side. As if to say, hey buddy good morning, now how's about you attend to that food bowl of mine.

If I go into my office room at home he waltzes in lays on the floor in the sun, gives a sigh as if to say I'm here if you need company. If I’m watching TV and having some pretzels he will wait patiently for me to toss him a few.

He will wait like a camel for me to come home and walk him. Like I said I walk him mostly off leash but with the leash attached. He moves from trotting ahead to falling behind to get one more sniff. He is aloof and if he is deep in smell he won’t come when called. He will give you that look like "Hey buddy I know where you are I'm not going anywhere. I'll be with you in a moment. “Sure enough we eventually sync back up and head home.

When its bed time he curls up in his bed gives me a look and a sigh and falls a sleep.

We have this great relationship built on mutual trust and unconditional love. Sure he will always come when I call him, but he knows I will also get up if he's really got to go at 2 AM and its cold and raining out. We look out for each other and besides I don't like pizza crust and he does

Hwyl
02-17-2008, 09:24 AM
With boats, however, sloops drool, cats rule.

I don't like the cut of your jib sir.

Ian McColgin
02-17-2008, 10:25 AM
Jib? What jib? We don't need no stinking jib!

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-17-2008, 10:45 AM
This thread looks like a love fest for dog owners.
Any of you guys ever fight off a strange dog when you were a long way from home and have no weapons? I have. One time it was two dogs. And, I was only about a half mile from home. The only reason I got away unscathed was a kindly motorist driving a monsterous old Lincoln saw me doing the boogie out in the street with these two hounds so he slowed down to walking pace and aimed his car at the those bad boys. The dogs had to give way which gave ne a chance to put some distance between me and them. And, oh yeah, the owner was right there in the street when all this happened shouting "down Fido" and numerous other unheard innanities. Even tho' the dogs didn't get a fang into me I could have had a coronary. I was about 65 years old at the time.
If you want more war stories I've got a treasure trove of them from 30 years of running. I've probably fought off more dogs than the lot of you pooch lovers has collectively owned in your entire lives.

Michael s/v Sannyasin
02-17-2008, 10:49 AM
Joe, just so you know, that leash trick won't stop you from getting a ticket, if there is a leash law in effect in your area. They define "being on a leash" as not only having a leash connected to the dog, but having the leash connected to the person too.

They even have rules about how long the leash can be (so, those retractable things might not cut it if they are all the way extended), and about how the person has to be in control of the leash (so, you can't just tie it to your belt).

I'm not saying I agree with them, just have known others who've had to pay the fine. You should try to find the text of the ordinance to be sure.

Joe (SoCal)
02-17-2008, 10:57 AM
I've always had a way with dog’s even vicious dogs. I guess I'm just a dog guy.

FWIW if you run they run. My aunt Peg had a temperamental German Sheppard bite me on the forearm once, just cause I went to pet him, (learned that it was my fault since you always let a dog smell you and never come at a dog with an open hand from above but under hand and slowly let them come to you) Anyway it was hard enough to break skin. Instead of trying to tug my arm out and cause more damage, I SHOVED my arm and fist down the dog’s mouth. He gagged and released, he lunged for me again, but I did not run, I punched him in his head and kicked him in the balls. He went down with a whimper and ran away, after I was bandaged up and he was finished licking his wounds I called him over and he came with his tail down and I petted him and he lay down next to me, never had trouble with that dog again. I was about 16 at the time. Never ever been bit again.

Tom Montgomery
02-17-2008, 11:03 AM
I love dogs. It is irresponsible human beings that I hate.

ishmael
02-17-2008, 11:35 AM
I'm one of those strange people who loves both cats and dogs.

I'll agree with Cuyahoga that a large aggressive dog, no owner in sight, can be pretty damn disconcerting. You can't show fear, or you're in trouble. They can smell it on you. I've never had a problem, and can usually read what is a bluff and what is serious. In a serious encounter--blessedly rare in my life--I'll start looking around for a sound club! There are a couple large mutts down the road where I walk, and in our first encounter they put on a pretty good show. With a little sweet talk they started to wag their tails, etc. People who are afraid of dogs don't know the body language, and then there are the evil people who actually train that aggression in, with often tragic consequences. A large dog, trained poorly to defense, is dangerous.

But, back to the dispute about cats and dogs. I find them both beautiful in their own ways. Cats are more aloof, and I find them more difficult to read. This kitty I'm living with now is a really good animal. She's affectionate in her own way, and I don't expect her to act like a doggy. She's has her own agenda, and it's an honor to honor her "catness." Sheba, my last dog who was affection central to the point of annoyance at times, was much more tractable once I got her trained. She got bathed when needed, and brushed regularly, and carried a minor doggy smell that didn't bother me. In fact, I kinda liked it. But then I'm rather fond of the smell of horses, too.

Joe (SoCal)
02-17-2008, 12:32 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d_BZWjCQv4A

Michael s/v Sannyasin
02-17-2008, 02:24 PM
oh man

S.V. Airlie
02-18-2008, 07:08 AM
This thread looks like a love fest for dog owners.
Any of you guys ever fight off a strange dog when you were a long way from home and have no weapons? I have. One time it was two dogs. And, I was only about a half mile from home. The only reason I got away unscathed was a kindly motorist driving a monsterous old Lincoln saw me doing the boogie out in the street with these two hounds so he slowed down to walking pace and aimed his car at the those bad boys. The dogs had to give way which gave ne a chance to put some distance between me and them. And, oh yeah, the owner was right there in the street when all this happened shouting "down Fido" and numerous other unheard innanities. Even tho' the dogs didn't get a fang into me I could have had a coronary. I was about 65 years old at the time.
If you want more war stories I've got a treasure trove of them from 30 years of running. I've probably fought off more dogs than the lot of you pooch lovers has collectively owned in your entire lives.

Maybe they just like raw meat Chuck...;)

On wit the story. I was the only one who showed up yesterday so the guy complaining won so to speak.

I learned two things though. The same guy complaining also complained about the coke machine light being on at night at the edge of the park under the eves of the park building. The light is now off.
There is a beautiful dock along the Mystic River. Right below the bridge. Would be a great place to tie up while waiting for the bridge to open. Can't dock there however. I suspect the same guy had something to do with this is well.
Off to go find some 10gauge blanks for the canon.

rbgarr
02-18-2008, 08:50 AM
I'm a bit cranky about light pollution too. Mercury vapor streetlights fifty feet from the bedroom window, and across the harbor: parking lot and marina spotlights shining our way, and lights on at a state building perpetually.

The other night there was a power outage along the coast here for three hours and it was fabulous. A clear sky took us back to the scene as it was before electricity. The only light sources in view were lighthouses and nav buoys.

S.V. Airlie
02-18-2008, 08:53 AM
Dave.. good point and in your case, I'd agree. BUT this was a bloody coke machine.

Gary E
02-18-2008, 08:58 AM
Blanks???

whimp

rbgarr
02-18-2008, 09:08 AM
Soda machines: There's are two of those not far from here also. I think I'll complain! :D

S.V. Airlie
02-18-2008, 09:09 AM
Soda machines: There's are two of those not far from here also. I think I'll complain! :D

Are you saying you are a PEPSI fan?

ishmael
02-18-2008, 10:04 AM
Different people's tolerance levels for life's little annoyances vary quite a bit. I mentioned Kevin's Beagles, and while they can be annoying some mornings when the windows are open, he and his wife do their best to control the Beagle song, so what can ya say? When I first moved here I had no idea I was gonna be maybe 75 yards from an auto repair shop. That can get noisy, sometimes too late at night and too early in the morning, but not bad enough to complain about it. Some mild cursing, especially at five AM and Kevin is madly working to ready for a race, but I tolerate it 'cause it doesn't happen all that often.

I can't remember the last time I complained about a neighbor's behavior, but it just hasn't been that annoying. I've been lucky where I've lived, I guess, and I'm also fairly laid back about such matters. Oh, I remember. Shadow the cat was getting mauled every week by the local tom, and it was costing a me a small fortune in vet bills. I called the neighbors and politely asked if there was anything they could do about their cat. Of course, being a barn tom, what were they gonna do? I do seem to remember seeing less of the bully, so maybe they shut him in more, or he met his fate at the teeth of one of the local packs of coyote--a common fate of Warwick cats.

On the other end of the spectrum are people who are constantly annoyed about something. They are always embroiled in some dispute, often it seems, leading to small claims court or even a lawyer. The complainers seem to congregate, so it'll turn into a minor Hatfields and McCoys. I guess it takes all kinds, but I don't envy them their temperments.

P.S. I'm pretty sure it was Daniel Boone, after as an old man he'd moved to Missouri from Kentucky, who said to the effect, "When I can see the smoke from my neighbor's chimney, I know it's time to move on."

S.V. Airlie
02-18-2008, 11:08 AM
Ish...
We all have our differences. When I had a B&B in Cooperstown, I also had llamas, sheep, chickens etc. My "new neighbor" from the city had two large German Shepards. These dogs would come over everyday and chase my animals around. Well, I finally got a bit worried thata chase would become a mauling. I talked to the owners. They abused the middle fingers. I talked to the SPCA. The agent was threatened by the wife with a shotgun.
Early in the fall... one afternoon, I was buying grain at the local Agways. Aguy peels in at seeing my car and told me I had better head home as the shepards were pulling down my animals and it was a bloody ( as in bloody ) mess. I got home. The warden was there ( but he had just retired the day before and was unarmed ). He looked at me and said that if he had his gun with him, those dogs would have never gotten home alive.. One day off so to speak.
The animals ( three of them survived ) but were badly7 scarred. The dog owners continued to be a pain in my but, the town's but etc. Didn't pay the vet bills etc..
So, yes, things do happen with neighbors once in a while. Sometimes neighbors just don't give a shyte and are not willing to work together.

ishmael
02-18-2008, 11:33 AM
"The dog owners continued to be a pain in my but, the town's but etc. Didn't pay the vet bills etc..
So, yes, things do happen with neighbors once in a while. Sometimes neighbors just don't give a shyte and are not willing to work together."

Yes, another category: the neighbors from hell. I have been lucky. A couple spooky ones now and then, but nothing serious.

So you didn't take them to court for the death of your livestock, or you did and they simply didn't pay? I'm no lawyer, but it sounds pretty simple legally, pay for the stock, pay for the vet bills, and keep those dogs under control or risk having them put down.

You're spot on, Jaimie, there are people who haven't the sense they were born with, and are nasty to boot.

S.V. Airlie
02-18-2008, 11:38 AM
Ish.. The town took them to court.. dogs were unleashed. Llamas were not classified as domestic animals as in cows. Fined 50.00 ( 25.00 for each dog ).

Vet bill.. 1,000.00 for the damage to my animals. Dogs quarentened for 30 days at 10.00/day/dog.. vet not paid.
Don't know if anything else happened or not.

ps.. llamas were not killed just torn apart.

Hwyl
02-18-2008, 08:21 PM
Soda machines: There's are two of those not far from here also. I think I'll complain! :D

They turned the lights off in the next town South (you know of where I speak). They have a "no backlit sign" ordinance. Good thing too, says I.

LisaS
02-19-2008, 08:55 AM
Jamie - Here are the coords. to a bonafide dog park not too far from you: N 41 22.568 W 072 02.576 Fenced, divided for large or small dogs, plenty of parking, porta johns for the two leggers, and room for the dogs to run.

Lisa

Mrleft8
02-19-2008, 09:01 AM
Jamie - Here are the coords. to a bonafide dog park not too far from you: N 41 22.568 W 072 02.576 Fenced, divided for large or small dogs, plenty of parking, porta johns for the two leggers, and room for the dogs to run.

Lisa Still geocaching eh Lisa? ;)

rbgarr
02-19-2008, 09:35 AM
In the latest WB there's a squib about cotton cloth sails being required on the Idem class boats on Lake St. Regis in way upstate NY. That lake has a "no lights" agreement, too.