Plywood Hull repair/replacement ????

[Fingerlakes Boater]

:I recently purchased a 1965 28' Owens Flagship. I have a lot of questions regarding her hull. She is all plywood with minimal rot. Most of the rot is at the transom, which will be totally replaced, and on the topsides. The topsides being rubrails(a common Owens problem) trim, and cabin roofs. There is some delamination to the interior of the hull dues to water getting in through the seams. So plywood will need to be replaced. Most all of the ribs are in good-excellent condition. The last rib, to which the transom is fastened, is totally rotten and will need to be replaced, that's about it.

So my question is this... Why not replace the entire hull with new plywood?? If I replace parts of the hull, can I still epoxy?? I have read that it is best to apply epoxy to bare wood, which would mean I would have to strip all paint. If I am going to strip all paint, why not strip all the plywood and start with new??

This is my first wooden boat project. I am a highly skilled carpenter and above average wood worker. But I would really like expert advice on the dynamics of keeping her dry and afloat.

Thanks,
Seth
Watkins Glen

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

One reason for not replacing ALL the plywood would be the cost. Another is finding plywood made with old growth wood. One of the reasons most of the wood is still good on your boat is the fact that older plywood was good stuff compared to what you get today. It's qicker to just fix whats wrong and get her back in the water. Stripping paint is low cost but labor intensive. Once the paint is off, it's easier to see the bad spots.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Stargazer14]

so i gather that when you mention 'epoxy', you plan on covering the entire hull with glass/epoxy after the repairs?

[Fingerlakes Boater]

Well I guess "epoxy" is what I was thinking. But I am defiantly not going to glass it. I was thinking more of CPES.

[Mike Vogdes]

Welcome aboard,
Sure, you can replace all the plywood panel by panel however that would be a huge undertaking and also very expensive. A better aproach would be to replace what needs to be replaced, strip the paint on the existing plywood then epoxy and fair. Years ago I had a 36' Cris Cavileer with a plywood hull, the plywood was in very good condition and the hull was easy to fix and maintain. She didn't have any glass and was surprisingly dry. Maybe Kevin is onto something about the older plywood being a better material than whats available now. I would think that after you finish your structural repairs to the framing and planking maybe just glass tape on the seams below the waterline instead of covering the whole hull with cloth. This would give you a nice tight hull and also be easier on the pocketbook. A good book to have in hand is "Wooden Boat Renovation" by Jim Trethegen (sp), its a very good read and will help you with all your questions. Also it would certainly be a good idea to have a surveyor take a look at things befor you get to far into a project like this.

[Fingerlakes Boater]

Mike,

So you suggest epoxy/glass the seams on the ply after paint is striped?? Won't the movement of the hull cause this method to crack?? I have read a couple of posts on this. I would like to stay away from any and all epoxy/glass applications if at all possible. Couldn't I apply CPES to entire hull after it is striped, and glue all new seams with a good quality marine adhesive. Following all with a nice healthy coat of Red Lead on bottom, and Kirby the rest?? As I said before I am an armature in boat restoration, so set me straight if I veered off course. Thanks.

Seth
Watkins Glen, NY smile.gif

[JFH]

The penetration of CPES is questionable on a strippied piece of plywood in my opinion.

You have a hull that has lasted this long with minimal problems except for the frames and transom...so why not make the frames and transom out of good quality wood and replace with sikaflex bedding compound in the joints?
This would be closer to the original boat.

I'm still not convinced that sealing a boat that is not new (so you can do a proper job) is a good idea. tongue.gif

My philosophy is to "put in what you take out". The exception is if the material was low quality and should be replaced by higher quality stuff or if the structure is beyond doing a proper job and just needs to be "saved". smile.gif

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Finger- don't undertand your reluctance to use glass in your epoxy. This little extra step does two things- first it binds up your seams completely watertite, and second, it adds abrasion resistance. Scuff your stem on a hidden rock and you will be thru your exoxy coat- raw plywood exposed. Glass- even it its only 8 ounce adds considerable protection. Heres what do. Grind/sand off your bottom paint clear uo over the chines. Replace plywood as needed. Saturate all with epoxy rolled well into plywood- let dry. Next day, roll out fresh epoxy, a few square feet at a time, lay in 8, 10, or 12 ounce e glass (or equivalent compatible with your epoxy). The heaver the cloth the harder it is to work with, and the more epoxy it takes- but the more abrasion it provides. Squeegee out all air bubbles, and in this manner work your way over the bottom and up over the chines. Let dry and then roll additional coats over thickened with fairing compound. Can call it quits here or you can fair the bottom to your hearts content. This will get you a nearly bullet proof bottom that should last you many years.

[Fingerlakes Boater]

Dale,

The problem I have is that by glassing over the creates a medium for rot. Should I ding the bottom, and crack the brittle epoxy/glass on the bottom, which then would allow water behind the epoxy glass, I would be in a world of problems. Problem which may not be apparent until it is to late. From what I have read, in the Wooden Boat forums as well as other restoration sites it is better to stay away from that equation. My hull has lasted for nearly 35 years without the glass, why complicate things now???

[Dale R. Hamilton]

DEPENDS ON THE QUALITY OF THE BOTTOM AND THE QUALITY OF THE GLASSING JOB. Sorry, didn't mean to shout- this question keeps coming up perpetually. Start with clean structurally sound botton, and do good job of the glassing and you will have bulletproof bottom. The reason your bottom didn't have epoxy/glass treatment was that it was not available 35 years ago. Notice I said EPOXY- this is way differnt from polyester fiberglass resin. The very best racing hulls and custom one offs are made with epoxy/glass/some kind of core material. But it will not cover up and fix a bad bottom to begin with.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Two very interesting schools of thought. :confused: Dale is right that it depends on the fiberglass job done and there have been many advancements in the art of fiberglassing. Then again, it's a wooden boat that has lasted many years and will last many more properly repaired and maintained in the original manner. Maintainence is the key to either method. Keeping after it and checking things regularly is more important than anything. There's more than one way to skin a cat....and a wooden boat. ;)

I'm looking forward to you learning how to post pictures. :D