Concordia Yawl Malay

[Concordia 33]

After several years of Malay sitting on jack stands in the parking lot at IYRS, things are finally starting to happen. Due to the restoration of Coronet and the rehab of their building, IYRS has been unable to take on the restoration of Malay and other worthy projects including the 6 meter in which Brit Chance won an Olympic gold medal. IYRS and Concordia Company (Brodie MacGregor) have been in discussions about creative ways to restore her. Her condition is really bad - I'd post the photos, but I'm not very good at it but you can see them by following this link: http://concordia-yawl-weatherly.com/other.aspx . Brodie is working in collaboration with IYRS to restore her at the Concordia Boatyard, and to place her in the ownership of a person who will keep her in good care. Though it will be an expensive restoration, it will probably be no worse than the purchase price of some of the Concordia's on the market now, and she will be like new.

Malay is an important Concordia. The first Concordia (Escape later changed to Java) was a custom built boat intended to replace the original "Escape" (a Cutter owned and loved by Waldo Howland's father) that had been destroyed in the hurricane of 1938. She was never intended to be a class of sailboats, but in 1939 hull # 2 was built for Philip Rhinlander who named her Jobiska (2 owners later Dan Strohmeier bought her and reanamed her Malay). As the second boat, Malay signaled the establishment of this design as a distinct class of sailboats. In 1954 Dan raced Malay to a win in the Bermuda Race (The smallest boat to win at the time). Dan nearly won a second time a few years later (second over-all and first in class). He has also won the Halifax race in her and several other well known New England based races.

Dan sold her in the mid 1960's as the 1964 Bermuda race ponded her badly - she had several leaks and needed restoration. He bought a newer Concordia and renamed it to Malay and continued his racing of the new Malay (sometimes referred to as Malay II). Subsequent owners failed to give her the appropriate care. One left her agound on a reef in the Caribbean and someone else got her - fiberglassed her hull and made other "patches" and used her as a live-aboard somewhere in Florida. Margo considered buying her while she was in the middle of restoring Sarah but wisely elected to keep working on the Concordia she already had. At some point Elizabeth Meyer bought her and donated her to IYRS in the hopes that she would get a proper re-fit.

Given her history and significance, it is important that she get a good restoration, and that her new owner that will keep her in a condition similar to how she looked throughout the 20+ years that Dan owned and sailed her. I don't think a specific restoration plan or cost has been established, so this offers a great opportunity for someone to get involved in this at the ground floor of her restoration. I hope that someone (who would like a nicely restored Concordia) considers getting involved with this project. Sorry to be long winded about this, but I am hoping there will be some interest in this project in the WBF community.

[adampet]

Ouch! Looks like a bit of exploration is needed.
http://concordia-yawl-weatherly.com/images/photos%207-4-07%20102.jpg

Quite an opportunity.

Adam

[StevenBauer]

So is this Malay one or two?

Steven

[Concordia 33]

Malay one but Hull #2 built in 1939.... Malay two is HUll #77 built in 1960

[rbgarr]

On that link above a bright hulled Concordia looks like she has an altered keel shape compared to others. Anyone know the story on that?

I sailed aboard #92 when she was new and called Geisha Girl. She was beautifully kept in a pristine all-varnished state for years. Now named Savu, she's for sale again: http://www.concordiaboats.com/yawl.php?id=92

[TimH]

http://concordia-yawl-weatherly.com/images/harrier%20-%20cat%20rigged.jpg

Heres a Concordia for Joe!

[rbgarr]

The chainplate channels on that boat were criminal additions!

[Concordia...41]

As to the historic value, she is second only to JAVA - in more ways than the hull #.

Granted I have a soft spot for these boats, but given all the money that's wasted on lesser things, the restoration of a vessel like this doesn't seem like that much of a leap.

:confused:

[Russ Manheimer]

Margo,

Was Ray Hunt behind the Cat rigged Concordia above? I think it was a way to exploit the rules (International?).

Still waiting for a Sarah update.

Best,

Russ

[Concordia 33]

In response to a couple of the above comments:

The bright finished Concordia that rbgarr referenced is Taliesian a Concordia 41 like Geisha Girl (which is now named Savu). Their keel shapes (Savu and Taiesian) are the same and Margo probably can confirm this better than me, but it is the typical keel shape for the 41's. Incidentally, Savu is also in one of the photos on the page that I referenced.

Regarding the Cat Rigged Concordia - it is Ray Hunt's Harrier. He liked to experiment with a variety of hull and rig configurations throughout his life. I recall a time in his 70's when he made a Catamaran out of two 210 hulls, and an asymetrical rig (you tacked by reversing directions!). He sailed Harrier for one summer (rather unsuccessfully) with the cat rig and switched it back. He was the original owner of Harrier and when he was done with it he sold it to (as I recall) his nephew Jesse Bontecou who still owns her and sails her in Jamestown, Rhode Island (she is in great shape but the rumor is she still has the mast step in place from when she was cat rigged). Ray's grandson Ray C. Hunt owns Hunt Yachts (fiberglass powerboats) and one of his models is named Harrier.

Though Java is the first Concordia, Malay really put the Concordia Yawls "on the map". Concordia sold less that 4 a year until 1954 when Malay won the Bermuda Race, (and I believe Winnie of Bourne came in second). From then on they were selling 12 Concordia's per year. In 1978 Babe solidified the recognition of the design whe she too won the Bermuda Race (the design was 40 years old at the time and competing against custom built ocean racers).

In either case, Margo is quite right that there are many worse ways to spend money that to restore this yawl. I am biased (Brodie is restoring a yawl for me) but he is great at making these boats whole again on a budget. I would not be fortunate enough to own one were it not for this. He has brought back several Concordia's and knows how to do it with an economy of effort.

Sorry I took so long to respond to some of the comments.

[rbgarr]

That's correct, Russ.

[Hank Bornhofft]

Regarding the Concordia 41 keel shapes, there are two. "Magic" has the cut away version which I imagine was designed for quicker tacks when racing. Looking at the web site pictures it looks like "Sarah" is the same. The other design is swept back, more like a 39. Both designs were used but alternately--not one style, then a total switch to the other. I don't understand the logic of which keel to choose. The boat number or age does not indicate what keel it would have been. The swept back design has the advantage that the iron goes further forward and aft such that it gives support under the mast step, like a 39. The 41 cut away version stops forward just before the mast centerline.

[Concordia...41]

Good morning Hank and welcome to the Forum. :)

I concur with your and 33's comments on the keel and add that "evolution" isn't the right word because there was not a constant curve to the changes - more of a flux as different ideas were tried - bow sprints, the changes in the keels, 39-41s, yawl rig, sloop rig, etc.

[Concordia 33]

Thanks for the clarification on the keel shape of the 41's. I tried looking at the list of original owners of Concordia 41's to see if any of the more recognized racers were the ones that ordered them with the cut out but didn't see any theme to it. Since the 41's were built to afford more head room and to rate better, it may be the changes occured based on the rating system the owner was racing under. Is there any other shape difference between them (i.e. does one have a deeper hull that offers more head room or space, or is it simply a hollow cut out on some of them?

[Russ Manheimer]

Which Rule would they have been racing under? International? CCA? Didn't the CCA Rule encourage comfortable centerboarders?

Russ

[Concordia...41]

CCA and I have SARAH's original measurment sheet :D

I'm not smart enough to remember (if I ever knew) the ins and outs of the CCA rules.

[rbgarr]

Thanks for the clarification on the keel shape of the 41's. I tried looking at the list of original owners of Concordia 41's to see if any of the more recognized racers were the ones that ordered them with the cut out but didn't see any theme to it. Since the 41's were built to afford more head room and to rate better, it may be the changes occured based on the rating system the owner was racing under. Is there any other shape difference between them (i.e. does one have a deeper hull that offers more head room or space, or is it simply a hollow cut out on some of them?

It doesn't look like there was anything was 'cut out' on the different keel; it looks like more ballast was added forward and lower compared to the other type. Only an opinion.

[Concordia 33]

rgbarr...
You may be right, after looking at the photos and thinking about it, the one thing I know about the 39's is that they often need lead in the bow to settle evenly on their lines. I wonder if the 41's have a similar propensity, as it looks like the ballast has been shifted further forward and this necessitated the shape. I will look more closely the next time I am at the yard and have a 39 and 41 to compare them to.

[Hank Bornhofft]

The 41's weren't "deeper", rather the sheer was raise and the tumblehome flatened out a bit and the stem straightened some. Except for the keel thing the hulls were identicle. This made for more beam and an extra 14" in length compared to a 39. The volume went up dramatically resulting in a gross displacement increase from 18K LBS to 24K LBS roughly along with more ballast. This increased draft. The two different keels on 41's meant a different ballast shape, not necessarily weight. Mystic has the exact weight as measured for all the boats and the differences could be checked.

The racing rules created design "improvements" but I don't think keel shape had anything to do with rule changes. Better sail cloth meant genoas that were practicle to weather thus masthead made sense because the extra sail area was not heavily penelized under CCA. Yawls were rated better ("Dorade", "Stormy Weather", "Finnestair" and Concordia yawls). Yes, centerboard was an advantage also. The 41's intended primarily for racing were sloops or cutters--about 6. Again, sail area did not have a proportional penalty. "Magic" had a bow sprit, 170% jib, and a 22' main boom. In the winter of '55-'56 the CCA rules commitee increased the advantage for more water tankage because boats were going off shore with not enough drinking water to save weight. "Magic" was under construction and George Nichols changed the specs to have 350 gallons--standard about 50! He also installed valving which in affect became an early water ballast system. The earlier ("Sarah") and later ("Whimbril") 41's had oak floors but the "racers" built mid '50's had composite construction with iron floors making room for the extra tankage--I believe this was at least one of the reasons. If so the CCA is responsible for all the "41 disease" we've had to correct!

Basically, the evolved designs are faster, but not necessarily better.

A brain teaser--Why were the original yawls 39' 10'' and not more and why were there exactly 99 total built in Germany and not more? I used to know but forgot but when it comes to me I'll post (Ha Ha).

[Hank Bornhofft]

39's and 41's never needed ballast forward as designed and built. It can take some lead forward internally to offset the installation of a diesel. The "sloped" 41 ballast is longer both forward and aft but about the same weight I believe. The "cut away" version turns faster, and having the weight concentrated more amidships may help windward performance. The longer ballast should work better off wind because of the weight distribution, and the boat will track better.

[Concordia 33]

As to the total numer of 99 Concordia's built by A&R. Waldo's book simply states that tariffs were getting higher and A&R had increasing construction costs at a time when American built fiberglass boats were cheaper and were believed to last forever. In other words it was no longer financially practical to build them anymore. Waldo sold his boatyard the year after he delivered hull 103 (A&R hull 99) because he didn't want to switch to fiberglass and he would rather sell the yard to someone else who would be willing to work with more "modern" materials he was a true wood boat guy. I don't recall Waldo's book saying anything about not going beyond 99 boats for any other reason.

As to the issue of length, that's a good question. I don't have Waldo's book here, but I seem to remember that Ray had originally designed a larger boat and that his father wanted one a little smaller so that he would not need alot of help to sail her. If there was a specific reason for it to be 39'10" it should be found in his book - I'll check tonite. I do know one thing, if she were a few inches shorter, she would just miss some of the Coast Guard regs that are required when your vessel is 12 meters (39'3") or more. They aren't really that much more, but it sometimes seems a shame to have extyra equipment for a 6" difference.

[Concordia 33]

Hank...
It's good to have you posting on WBF:)

-Paul

[Hank Bornhofft]

Yup, but I don't remember the 12 meter rule but do remember under 40' the vessel could be documented (and there wasn't the minimum tonage there is today) but over 40' it had to be documented.

Hint-- there were also 99 Atlantic class sloops built in Germany

[Hank Bornhofft]

There was no state registration of boats then--just CG documentation.

[Concordia 33]

Hank..
You got me, Waldo claimed that they stopped after hull 99 due to economics.
-Paul

[Hank Bornhofft]

There was a big bump in the duty rate at 100 boats, enough so that they stopped bringing in Atlantics after #99 also. From reading the business file on "Magic" there was disproportionate, in my mind, attention to this cost but every penny counted. It doesn't seem that the profit was much on the sale of these boats. In fact, Waldo lost money on "Magic". It probably was the straw that broke the camel's back (the duty increase) and this is consistent with what you read. I've been in the business and we would break even if lucky on new boat sales but make it in the commisioning, yard work and after services.

[Concordia 33]

It makes sense. Waldo did everything he could to lower import fees. He had them drill a hole into the forward seat on the bateka's so he could claim it as a mast step - sailboats imported more favorably than row boats. Also, A&R's rates continued to increase. When he first started ordering Concordia's Germany was still recovering from WWII - A&R were building wheelbarrows to keep their work crews busy, so they were highly motivated to come in with a low bid. But as Concordia, Sparkman & Stevens and other prominent boat builders began to use A &R they increased their labor force and rates. By the 1960's Germay's economy had recovered nicely and labor costs increased considerably. That in conjunction with the difficulty of tarriff's must have been a real challenge. Also, the percentage of tarriff doubled over a certain dollar value. In the beginning, it was fairly easy to build and ship a boat below the higher tarriff level, but as costs increased (and the more expensive 41's were developed) it became increasingly harder. The 41's were imported to the US without an engine to keep their import value down - the engine was installed at Concordia after delivery - I would assume this was Magic's fate. Also, Magic (as I understand it) has a dual identity - the outside is Concordia, but the inside is Sparkman and Stevens (complete with an aft cabin). Am I correct or do I have Magic confused with another Concordia?

[Hank Bornhofft]

The interior is Sparkman Stevens style, like a NY30, but actually designed by Hunt and Howland (under duress).

Concordia did send a lot of gear over including engines but they were mostly "completed" over here as you say.

"Magic" was a bit of an exception. She was launched at A&R and Concordia took official ownership then chartered to George Nichols who cruised around Scandinavia for the summer, then she was shipped from Oslo as a used boat and Nichols took ownership when she was off-loaded at Boston, thus cutting the duty quite a bit.

Parts shipped to A&R of US manufacture got duty remission when brought back into the US as part of a boat.

I think the very first boats came in complete with sails for $7,500. I owned #7 for a while and she was quite simple--and larch planked. After a lot of after the fact haggling Nichols payed Waldo about 45K, the last payment long after delivery, and Waldo was pissed, but he kept his feelings to himself "for the benefit of the fleet". After owning "Magic" for a while and getting to know Waldo he told me he never liked the boat but then did because she had a good owner. From what I've since read I think anybody would have been a better customer than George.

[rbgarr]

I wonder how close to the yawl's lines Ted Kennedy's 50' "Concordia" schooner's are. She was built in Duxbury, Mass. ... not by A&R.

http://i29.tinypic.com/w0gadu.jpg

[Hank Bornhofft]

She is pretty and FAST! She is similar to a lot of very good boats of the time but I don't see a direct comparison--but I've never seen her underbody--

[rbgarr]

The MYA design is listed as Concordia from 1940. I've always thought she was another Hunt lines/Harris arrangement and construction boat.

[Hank Bornhofft]

Not Fenwick Williams for/with Hunt?

[rbgarr]

News to me! :D

[Concordia 33]

Mya was run up on the beach by its professional skipper a few years back. She was damaged, but she had several broken frames pre-grounding. Apparently the good senator had not been taking good care of her. I had heard that Lawley had built her for Concordia, but it could have been Casey - they used both boatyards quite a bit. After the grounding he had to get all her frames fixed or he ran the risk of losing his insurance. I know he loves the boat - he sails her every opportunity, but I didn't think he was so cheap about taking care of it - he had made several poor repairs instead of taking better care of it.

[rbgarr]

According to the WB Register she was built at Duxbury Boatyard. Do you remember who told you she had broken frames and poor repairs?

[Concordia 33]

Someone else in the WBF told me - was involved with the repairs and got the story first hand. If they are reading this thread, maybe they can say more about the condition and how she was repaired.