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Thermo
01-25-2008, 06:07 PM
Hi, just joined today, because after 3 consecutive Januaries of mid-winter boat fever, I finally got un-broke enough to start a first-boat project, albeit this modest one.

After considering countless projects, I've settled on this one because it looked easy enough, and cheap enough. It's intended purpose is for leisurely strolls around a 250 acre lake in a state park while learning how to work a sailboat. And secondly, as a learn-to-build project.

Anyone ever done one of these per the buld notes on the website? My only major change planned is to use 3/8 ply instead of the 1/4 for the bottom panel. (I really don't want my foot going through the floor.) I was worried that it might screw up the boat for some reason though.

Any words of wisdom on this little guy?
http://www.simplicityboats.com/SBtrim_small.jpg

Thorne
01-25-2008, 07:51 PM
Looks like a good first build.

The way I understand it, PL Premium works best if the surfaces are slightly damp. Have used it both dry and damp and they both work, haven't done any breakage tests to see if there is a difference.

Get a big box of Nitrile gloves and use 'em -- PL Premium really doesn't come off of skin very well -- don't ask me how I know this...

;0 )

The leeboard and mount will have a lot more force on them than you'd expect, so carefully follow the plans in that area. And I prefer real pintles and gudgeons to his nylon strapping version -- trim the top pintle about 1/2" to make it easier to seat the rudder while on the water.


http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/projects/summerb/index.htm
http://www.simplicityboats.com/summerbreeze.html

DGentry
01-25-2008, 08:09 PM
Personally, I'd stick with the 1/4" plywood, as your foot won't be going through it. The extra weight of the 3/8" ply might seem negligible, at first, but every bit counts, and it might be the thing that makes the boat less likely to be used - esp. if you cartop the boat, or have to manhandle it very much.

Polyurethane glues do indeed need moisture to kick them off - read the directions. And, they really need to be clamped, with no voids between surfaces. Polyurethane glues are NOT gap filling, like thickened epoxy is - that solid looking foam it produces is mostly air . . . .

I agree about using "real" pintles and gudgeons, but the webbing will no doubt work, too.

Measure twice, thrice, or more, and then cut - but, mostly, expect to make mistakes, and don't sweat it when you do. Perfection can be your goal on your next boat, or the one after that, or the one after that, etc.

This boat looks like a great first build - have fun!

Dave

Mark Neuhaus
01-25-2008, 08:20 PM
I built one a few years ago, pretty much as he detailed, except I made my gunwales a bit prettier with contrasting spacer pieces. For clamped a block plane to a long 1x4 to plane the chine logs flat instead of sandpaper on a stick as David suggests.

It all went together just fine. I used screw eyes and a brass bar to attach the rudder. I've had another adult in it with me for rowing and we never came close to going through the 1/4 floor.

Mine was completed in 5 weekends and evenings, even with making a birdsmouth mast (just to see if I could do it) and I sewed my sail from spinnaker sailcloth I have for my kitemaking hobby. Even made homemade oars from a 2x2 and 1/2 inch plywood.

I can put it on the car just fine and a couple of wheels on a crosspiece under it gets it to the water.

Next spring we see how a small outboard behaves on it. :-)

Mark

Hwyl
01-25-2008, 08:40 PM
Welcome aboard guys, echo the 1/4 ply (it ge's stiffer by the square of it's thickness)

Thermo
01-26-2008, 07:28 AM
Thanks for the advice. Right now the sides are cut out and the PL scarfing step is next. Where I live, I've got to run 30 miles to get to a hardware store, so I'm waiting on the next 'grocery run' to pick up the notched trowel, (which I forgot to get last week.)
I've got a box of gloves around here I need to find as well.

I think I'll make make the frame, transom, and stem in the meantime.

Other deviations I'm thinking of:

*using some kind of ply for the leeboard and rudder instead of board (maybe 2 thicknesses of 3/8 ply laminated together)
*airboxes at each end filled with styrofoam (it's a deep lake)

The mounting of the rudder will be chosen based on what materials I can get my hands on. As to the leeboard, the plans aren't very clear on the mounting, other than "use a spacer and make it bear on the gunwales and the external chine log." I'm still worried about weighting those foils as well. I keep imagining them trying to float.

Thorne
01-26-2008, 11:19 AM
I'm not a super-experienced builder, either with solid wood or ply, but check out the photos of restoring my Chamberlain dory skiff.
http://www.luckhardt.com/dory1.html

I made two centerboards, as the first one was from cheap ply with only an epoxy coating (no fiberglass cloth) and broke from the strain -- the second from two pieces of proper marine ply epoxied together and covered with fiberglass. For weight I used sheet lead inset into a hollow made with a router and chisel -
http://www.luckhardt.com/newcb5.jpg

My experience with leeboards is just on friend's boats, but we've broken the mounts on two of them, so the strain is significant. You'll want the top of the board to have a bearing surface (usually the gunwale), and may want the middle part of the board to also have a bearing surface, usually added to the exterior of the hull like a small outwale or chine. The stainless steel bolt and washers should be oversize and adjustable.

On the flotation issue, a search here will bring up a lot of info. Personally I hate styrofoam or any fixed flotation material, as it makes a great spot for dampness and rot to take hold. Better to seal the boxes well, then fill with **removable material** like capped softdrink bottles, fun noodles, etc. Use the standard marine screw-in circular hatches to seal the flotation tanks/boxes.

A boat like yours won't sink to the bottom unless you fill it with rocks or weights, so flotation is more to allow you to bail it out and climb back in after a knockdown. Be sure to tie your bailing bucket to the boat with line, and I strongly recommend attaching a cheap stainless steel folding knife to the same line so you can cut your sail halyards or whatever free if needed.

Thermo
01-26-2008, 12:57 PM
That's a great boat you got there! If I ever get to the stage of doing a 'real' boat like that, I'm hoping it'll be the 'semi-dory' from Gardner's book. It's similar to yours. (And it has a nifty rod to push the centerboard down.)

Thanks for the flotation info too. These manmade lakes in the mountains can get pretty bottomless.

My plans on mounting my leeboard on this SummerBreeze are tentatively like this, with the board bearing on the gunwales and on the chine, with an angled spacer at the bolt. Inside may be two vertical braces with a crosspiece drilled for the bolt.:

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/leeboard.jpg

Mark Neuhaus
01-26-2008, 02:19 PM
I purposely dumped mine to see about the flotation issue. When sunk, it floats but the gunwales are below the waterline, making easy bailing impossible.

To solve this, your end boxes would work. Or as I did this summer, make a seat for rowing from layers of 2 inch building foam shaped to fit across the boat just aft of the mast partner, duct taped together so it is removable. Didn't get a chance to test it as the water was way too cold for this weenie.

I made the rudder and leeboard from two pieces of 3/8 inch plywood epoxied together, didn't bother with glassing them. Big wingnuts to keep the leeboard and the kickup rudder down.

I used house paint on all the plywood, exterior poly on the gunwales, mast, and closet-rod spars.

Mark

rbj37
01-26-2008, 04:26 PM
re: leeboards, You might want to take a look at :http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0615/index.htm

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-26-2008, 05:13 PM
Thanks for the advice. Right now the sides are cut out and the PL scarfing step is next. Where I live, I've got to run 30 miles to get to a hardware store, so I'm waiting on the next 'grocery run' to pick up the notched trowel, (which I forgot to get last week.)
I've got a box of gloves around here I need to find as well.

I think I'll make make the frame, transom, and stem in the meantime.

Other deviations I'm thinking of:

*using some kind of ply for the leeboard and rudder instead of board (maybe 2 thicknesses of 3/8 ply laminated together)
*airboxes at each end filled with styrofoam (it's a deep lake)

The mounting of the rudder will be chosen based on what materials I can get my hands on. As to the leeboard, the plans aren't very clear on the mounting, other than "use a spacer and make it bear on the gunwales and the external chine log." I'm still worried about weighting those foils as well. I keep imagining them trying to float.

I'm not much of a fan of leeboards. If the boat rocks toward the off side the leeboard comes up out of the water. The leeboard means you have try to sail the boat flat. There is a lot of leverage on a leeboard so it has to have an adequate mounting.
Make your fin and rudder out of two thicknesses of 3/8" ply. The numerous veneers will keep them from warping. It's better if they are coated with epoxy but if you haven't got any paint will have to do. Fins and rudders work better if you give each side an airfoil curve. Make the fat part of the foil about 1/3 the width of the board back from the leading edge.
My plywood dagger and rudder are not weighted and never have shown any sign of popping up unless they've hit bottom.
The best price on pintle and gugeons I found was from Duckworks.
Box section seats make excellent floatation if they are glued up airtight. Putting anything inside doesn't make them float one bit better. If the boxes aren't air tight only closed-cell marine foam is recommended. Anything else will soak up moisture and trap it against you plywood.
A wooden boat won't sink to the bottom. The purpose of floatation is to get it to support weight when it is swamped. If you have enough floatation it should easily support several swimmers and if you aren't too heavy it may be possible to climb in and bail it out.

Thermo
01-28-2008, 09:47 AM
Update:

Building has started on this one!. I've got the sides cut out, the frame made, the stem is done, and the transom is almost done.

Mistake #1:

I tried scarfing the sides with a 3" buttblock as per the instructions. But NOT to the instructions, I tried to use TB2 instead of PL premium, and TB2 apparently won't cure at the temperature of my basement (40.) Oops, after waiting 2 days, the joint came apart with minimal bending and glue still wet. I had to clean it up and re-do it with PL.

Now, the PL doesn't even want to leave the tube in the cold! (It actually ruined my caulking gun in the attempt.) I had to take the back of the tube off and spatula it onto the wood before troweling. I stapled the buttblock on, and am using the heads from a small block ford as weights now.

When the transom is ready and the side-joints cured, I'm dry-shaping the sides around the frame and starting on the bottom. In the meanwhile, I've brought the frame upstairs to warmth and hand-sanded it.

Mistake # 2:

After laminating 2 pieces 3/8 ply for the transom, I decide I want a crown to it, so the aft airbox will have a rounded deck shape, but now it's too late. :( Maybe I can attatch a crown to the top of the transom afterwards.

Thorne
01-28-2008, 10:18 AM
There are many threads that deal with this issue of cold and glues.

One easy suggestion -- get an old electric blanket and wrap the parts before and after gluing. Use a heatgun to warm parts before gluing also works.

What is TB2? I would NOT recommend changing the plans or builder's instructions at this stage! The use of PL Premium in place of epoxy is still questionable to many experienced builders, and using anything else for critical joints is unwise unless you've done some testing.

I use PL Premium for quite a bit of small glue jobs on my few wooden boats, but stick (pun intended) to epoxy for critical joints that may have a lot of shear or flex.

For example, I built a removable small backrest for my dory skiff, and it was glued and screwed with PL Premium. At the same time I'm building a gaff-jawed boom for the small mainsail, and that is glued with Smith's slow-cure epoxy.

Thermo
01-28-2008, 11:38 AM
Titebond II is an alternate glue (basic woodworking glue) mentioned on the designer's page. He made it sound as if it's acceptable for that particular joint in the text:


Make sure you weight or tack your pieces so they don’t slide around when they have the glue on them. Apply glue to the edges and the surfaces using your pencil trace lines as a guide. If you use PL Premium spread it with a notched trowel. If you use Titebond II you can spread it with a brush, roller or spatula or scrap of cardboard.

So, as far as I knew, I was still adhering (more puns) to the plans. I've only used 'syringe' epoxy from the store before, and I would prefer epoxy if I could find it locally somewhere. I might have to bite the bullet and mail order some.

Thorne
01-28-2008, 03:41 PM
Great care must be taken to meet the specifications/requirements of the various glues/adhesives/sealants when boatbuilding -- as failure on the water can be a bit more dangerous than a birdhouse falling apart...
As we say here on the WB Forum, "Don't ask me how I know this..."

;0 )

I tried using one of the Weldwood glues on a mast, but didn't meet the requirements for high temperatures during cure and/or enough clamping pressure. Result was that I had to break open the glueline and re-glue with epoxy -- which I should have used in the first place.

The PL Premium tube glue data sheet says it can be used down to 20 degrees, but (as you discovered) the cartridge may need to be warmed first.
http://www.stickwithpl.com/msds_new.aspx


Here is some text from the Titebond Product info page -
Note that neither II or III are rated for use on boats or for application under 45-55 degrees.


http://www.titebond.com/images/clear.gif Titebond II Premium Wood Glue is not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline. Not for structural or load bearing applications. Do not use when temperature, glue or materials are below 55F.

Titebond III -

http://www.titebond.com/images/clear.gif Not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline. Not for structural or load bearing applications. Use when temperature, glue and materials are above 45F.
http://www.titebond.com/images/clear.gif

Thermo
01-31-2008, 10:53 AM
Another update:

The hull is together and glued/nailed. The bottom is going on in the next day or so. I've got the rudder and leeboard laminated and that glue is cured, so they can be cut and shaped after I get the bottom on. At this rate, the boat will be finished just before the weather breaks in mid-March.

Starting to worry about the mast now. The 'plans' call for a mast I don't want to use. I quote:

"The mast is as simple as it gets. Use as clear a 10 foot 2x4 as you can find. Taper it starting about 3 ft above the base, to 1.5" at the top. The 3.5" dimension runs athwartship (side to side) so it's strongest side takes most of the stress."

I really don't want to spend a lot of effort making this boat nice, only to stick a 2x4 on it. And on his prototype pictures, David clearly uses a round mast that rotates in a round step.

Mark, you said you made a birdsmouth mast for yours. Can you tell me the dimensions you used, and how it turned out?

thanks!

Thorne
01-31-2008, 11:05 AM
If you find that the birdsmouth build is not for you, a simple round or oval mast can be built from two clear fir 2x4's glued together and then shaped.

http://www.luckhardt.com/newmast0.jpg

http://www.luckhardt.com/newmast3.jpg

Mark Neuhaus
01-31-2008, 05:08 PM
Hi,

I tried gluing up some spruce to make a solid mast, as someone told me a birdsmouth was overkill. I even used a nice angle iron clamped to the glue up to keep everything straight, but that demon who comes in the middle of the night and always ruins my projects (I never make mistakes, don'tcha know) visited me and the blank was too bowed for my tastes.

I cut it apart into what appears to be 1/2 inch by 3/4 inch blanks. I cut the birsdmouth on a tablesaw, laid them side by side with the cutouts facing up, brushed my epoxy down the length of them, and then wrestled them together starting at one end.

Being a cheapskate, instead of hose clamps, I took old bicycle tubes and made a spiral cut to get one long rubber band from each tube. This allowed adjustable pressure on the glue up and let me make easy adjustments to the straightness of the mast blank.

After that cured, and I cut it to 10 foot 2 inches (I don't remember why this length), I epoxied an octagon blank in each end so I could make the hole for the halyard and the "pin" to fit into the mast step. I didn't think to also put one in at the level of the mast partner to prevent any crushing of the hollow mast.

My final size after planing and sanding it is right around 1 and 7/8 inches. I didn't bother to taper it. The spars appear to be 1 and 5/16 inches, either closet rods or more likely, handrail material.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Thermo
02-01-2008, 07:50 AM
Thanks both.

That's a choice I'll be wringing for a while. I wonder if I can rig up something to turn the mast on to make it quicker to shape?

Well, the bottom is on this boat, and I have to say now that once it's righted and set on the shop floor, it looks absolutely tiny. It looked a lot bigger on sawhorses somehow. Granted, I'm 6'4" and 260lb, but it looks like a decent sized model boat to me, at 11 1/2 ft. long and 16" high. I hope my daughter will be able to ride in it with me on the lake. It's supposed to be able to carry 500 pounds.

Mark, I also made your described dolly for it out of a 4' 2x4 and some old kids' bike wheels. Just took some 3/8 threaded rod, smeared them with PL premium, and stuck them in holes drilled in the ends.

Ice storm here today, probably won't get to work, so keel/skeg today if I'm lucky!

Thorne
02-04-2008, 09:59 AM
Here's photos of a build that might be interesting -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23438966@N07/2239988073/in/set-72157603844285468/

PaulC
02-04-2008, 08:25 PM
I like the center board case! It is attractive and robust!

Thermo
02-06-2008, 11:59 AM
Wow, that is a nice trunk! I almost wish I had done it that way instead of the leeboard. Well, I guess I could always go back and change it if I like, and patch the bolt-hole in the hull.

I'd like to post pics, but things are moving so fast that by the time I uploaded them, they'd be out of date already. So these are a few days old by now.

I held off on the keel so I could do a lot of work that needed done inside the boat.

The airboxes are now done (the tops screwed on temporarily so I can get them off whenever, like for puttng the keel on, checking for leaks, etc... I'll use silicone caulk on them.)

The gunwales and block-spacer'ed inwales are done and look lovely. The leeboard is 90% shaped, and already leaded, (I need a new sureform blade to finish.) I poured the lead last night. The ply for the rudder blade and head is already laminated.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/airbox.jpg

Next, the tops come back off the airboxes and the keel/skeg goes on. I did everything else first so I could keep it on sawhorses as long as needed. After that, the boat is ready for roughing-in the sailing bits.

The bow airbox is 8" lower than the gunwales, and is made into a large triangular platform seat for my daughter to lounge on.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/bowseat.jpg

She's lightweight, and likes to hang over the bow and watch the water go by.

Thermo
02-08-2008, 12:40 PM
Best idea ever?
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/lathe2.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/lathe1.jpg

DGentry
02-08-2008, 12:53 PM
>"Best idea ever?"

Second only to sweeping the floor every year or so.:D

Thermo
02-08-2008, 01:05 PM
That's a part of the basement I only ever visit every year or so.

It could do with a bit of cleanin' up, maybe umm, after the job at hand is done :)

Thermo
02-09-2008, 07:28 AM
I made my polytarp lugsail last night, based on the Jim Michalak plans, and scaled down to about 63sqft. I darted both front corners, the foot/luff corner more than the head/luff corner. I them hemmed the entire perimeter of the sail. Hope I was supposed to, because the weave looked loose enough that I thought it necessary.

I have to say I love sewing. I can't wait to make sails out of prettier sailcloth than blue tarp

wallacethegreenmonster
02-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Thermo-first off your progress on this project is phenomenal. Keep posting the pics for us. I have a list of questions for you or anyone to help me with. I started a month ago and cut the stem, frame, transom and sides.

-what's the best way to line up the transom to match the angle to the stern aspect of the sides? seems like the 13 degree angle on the transom doesn't line up with the angled cut on the aft side pieces.

-what did you make those rails of? i want mine to be strong enough for oar locks as mine will be a rowboat but want to be able to bend them around. the inwales add a major touch i have to say and your's look awesome.

-did you use a batten or did you cut the straight line when you got that curve on the bottom side of your aft piece? I cut the straight line and now have to figure out how much fairing to do. Belt sander?

Thanks, and keep us updated.

Thermo
02-10-2008, 10:29 PM
Thermo-first off your progress on this project is phenomenal. Keep posting the pics for us. I have a list of questions for you or anyone to help me with. I started a month ago and cut the stem, frame, transom and sides.

Thanks, I'll post some more pics when the boat looks different :D It IS different, but you can't see 4 hours of sanding on a picture. The keel and skeg are done, and the bottom is being filled for painting (bondo in the little dips and such, and one knothole in the outer ply.)

The leeboard is done, shaped and ready for paint, as is the rudder blade. The only wooden things left to make are the spars and tiller, mast step, partner.


-what's the best way to line up the transom to match the angle to the stern aspect of the sides? seems like the 13 degree angle on the transom doesn't line up with the angled cut on the aft side pieces.I used 13 and it worked fine. Make sure the aft side of the transom is to the dimensions in the plans, once you cut the angle, the fore part will end up wider than the aft (how much wider depends on the thickness of the transom wood), so start with a bigger piece of wood than you think you need. And don't forget to do the bottom with the angles well , I forgot, and had to make a spacer wedge to make up the gap.:eek: You'll have to go some smoothing on the bottom edge of the transom either way to make it flush with the sides. You'll also have to do some work on the lower/aft part of the side panels to get them happy with the bottom of the transom, just keep it gradual and smooth.


-what did you make those rails of? i want mine to be strong enough for oar locks as mine will be a rowboat but want to be able to bend them around. the inwales add a major touch i have to say and your's look awesome.
I bought a 12 foot long 2x12 board, and ripped off 1/4 strips for the gunwales (which go outside the plywood) and the same for the inwales. Your spacer blocks are as wide as you want. I think mine are 1/2 or so, but you might go wider, because that's where the oarlocks go. Making wider spacer blocks for the oars won't affect how the strip rails bend. (I'm not doing mine for rowing, it's sailing only, with canoe paddles just in case :))


-did you use a batten or did you cut the straight line when you got that curve on the bottom side of your aft piece? I cut the straight line and now have to figure out how much fairing to do. Belt sander?I cut the straight lines shown in the plan, and just belt-sanded the curve in. Smooth it enough so your plywood bottom will bend around it smoothly. I did use a batten to mark the curve in the tops of the curved deck on the aft airbox though.

Good luck on yours, get some pics too!

Thermo
02-15-2008, 12:19 PM
Just an update on progress:

The mast-turning gizmo was a bust, and I gave up and just sat there for a few hours with a hand plane and book-on-tape. Now I have a nice round, tapered mast and tennis elbow :)

Like I said in the other thread, paint is going on bit by bit, and it's taking forever to dry, but looks nice. White boat with blue trimmings. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/bottompaint1.jpg

The inside is not painted yet, and you can see the stupid caulk I used to make it look nice, not considering that the paint flakes right off of it. Maybe latex will stick to it?
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/caulk1.jpg

My leeboard ply has a void or two that's worring me. All I can do is fill with epoxy and hope for the best. The voids looks so benign until you begin shaping the foil and they grow huge!

Anyway, I still consider myself ahead-of-schedule for my planned mid-March launch date. Found out today that no craft without a motor need be registered in WV, so that's one less hassle.

I plan to test-launch in the Potomac River near home, and actually sail at Rocky Gap, a state park in MD with a lake on it. I'm lashing canoe paddles to the inwales for backup propulsion.

Thermo
02-17-2008, 01:53 PM
The boat is now at this stage: I wanted to see if there were going to be any leaks before I screwed the tops down on the airboxes so I took her down and threw her in the Potomac.

There WAS one :eek: A tiny pinhole of leakage into the aft airbox, coming from the transom/bottom joint. Any ideas on the best way to fix said leak?

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/intruck.jpg

Lewisboats
02-17-2008, 02:21 PM
Make sure you let it/force it to dry completely or the wet wood will be a potential rot spot. What did you originally seal the seams with? My personal opinion would be to tape with FG and Epoxy all the external seams. This ensures that no water will penetrate and get in between the glue layers in the plywood.

Steve

Thermo
02-17-2008, 02:35 PM
I sealed the seams with a whole lot of nothing...

PL Premium, troweled on with a notched trowel... it squirted out of all the seams as they were nailed on, except maybe this one spot :)

Then I sealed all the ply edges with glue and 4 coats of oil-based enamel. Added some silicone caulk to make it look good (which actually made it look bad instead) and painted it again.

My first boat, what can I say? Still, with 20-something feet of seam line, only to have one pinhole leak on the whole thing wasn't too awful. I'll go back and seal the transom seam with epoxy and cloth, since there's no external chine log there.

wallacethegreenmonster
02-19-2008, 08:11 AM
Thermo I did the PL to glue and did cloth and epoxy on my seams on the lumberyard 16 footer i built last year and haven't leaked a drop yet. I think this is a good approach.

Did you use an external chine? I used an internal on my skiff last year but now having started this build I am thinking of going with an external chine for convenience sake.

Thermo
02-19-2008, 10:32 AM
I used the external chine But beware, his bottom layout is sized for internal chine, so if you do the external like I did, you'll end up moving the transom forward, because the bow-bottom triangles won't entirely cover the external chine.

I dragged it back outside today for it's first stepping o' the mast. The aft deck is still off until I'm sure the leak is fixed. The mast rakes a little to port as well :confused: Time for shims I suppose!

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/maststepped1.jpg

wallacethegreenmonster
02-19-2008, 11:36 AM
Looks like a beauty. And from that view looks like you got that nice rocker that is called for in the plans.

I will probably just trace out the bottom pieces after everything is together. This always made a lot more sense to me than making a bottom and then having to make the rest of the boat perfect so that the bottom fits. Did you nail the bottom to the chine with PL as the glue? And how thick was your chine? I was planning on doing mine out of 1x2(so i'd be nailing into the 1 inch(really 3/4) width).

Thermo
02-19-2008, 12:25 PM
Looks like a beauty. And from that view looks like you got that nice rocker that is called for in the plans.

I will probably just trace out the bottom pieces after everything is together. This always made a lot more sense to me than making a bottom and then having to make the rest of the boat perfect so that the bottom fits. Did you nail the bottom to the chine with PL as the glue? And how thick was your chine? I was planning on doing mine out of 1x2(so i'd be nailing into the 1 inch(really 3/4) width).

My chine is about 3/4. I used PL and nails. The problem is, the bottom layout and wood-use on his drawings are going to be too small. There's no question of tracing and trimming up around the bow end. It's a question of pushing the bottom forward more and more to try to cover the boat (that is, if you do the bottom with the scarphed triangles as per his plans.)

You end up with the bow just barely covered, and the transom an inch or two behind the back edge of the plywood, and uncovered. It's a hairy spot in the build, but I'm sure you'll get past it fine.

I kinda hung the sail and spars just now, to see how she'll look. It's gusty out, and I had a knockdown in the back yard! (No embarrassing picture though) :)


http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/maststepped2.jpg


This afternoon I did the leeboard and rudder mounts and painted the final sailing bits to be hung on the boat.

I just realized... But for waiting for paint to dry, the boat's done. Finished, completed, the end. No more building of boat in the basement, coming upstairs to see if David Vann is dead yet, and running back down to make another bit. No more waiting for glue to dry.

No more project?!?!?

I need a new project now, and I haven't even sailed this gal yet. February isn't yet over and a big reason for this project was to distract myself through February so I didn't notice it was upon me. Now I still have a week of this dreaded month to endure, and nothing to do but go to work and pay bills.

Maybe I'll start dreaming of voyages to take in this yacht I built. The lake, yes. But will it handle Chincoteage Bay, and an extended sail/camp down the back side of Assateague loaded with a tent and food? With the smooth automatic kick-up rudder and leeboard, it should handle the shallow water back there.

PaulC
02-19-2008, 09:06 PM
You could always make a model of the SummerBreeze and sail it in your bathtub!

wallacethegreenmonster
02-24-2008, 10:14 AM
Thermo-I did a bit of work finally yesterday and put the frame in then the stem and then the transom. Getting the transom in was a bit of a bear, especially the second side because at this point everything was under quite a bit of tension. I could have used a second pair of hands for sure.

Next I will put the chine in which I am thinking of doing by buying one of those fir 1x4's from home depot and ripping the long ways so that I can make a more pliable 1x1.75. Curious, would you rip this at a 15 degree angle or so such that there is less planing to do? Last year I used these 1x4's for my 16 foot skiff and just laid them in place and then took a hand saw and cut down the extra as flat as possible and then planed a bit. It was laborious but actually worked out quite well. What I don't want to do is cut an angle on the rip vut and then not have enough wood.

wallacethegreenmonster
02-24-2008, 10:25 AM
Thermo-sorry one more question. Your paint job is beautiful. What did you use? As this is a low budget project I was thinking of using the Lowes brand Severe Weather paint. I heard it is pretty rugged, easy to use, and can bet had in any color. I am looking to a teal exterior and orange interior.

Thermo
02-24-2008, 10:47 AM
I ripped the chine at about 18 and that got me in the ballpark. I still had to use a hand plane and a level to get it just right, but with the angle cut there was a lot less planing to do.

The paint on this was stuff I got for free off a jobsite. It's Krylon industrial enamel, oil-based (boiler-room paint in OSHA colors)

However, I ran short of white after painting the outer hull, so all the inside of the boat and the spars are painted with acrylic latex exterior semi-gloss house paint from WalMart. It's a LOT easier to use than oil paint, and a lot easier to clean, dries instantly, etc... I can do two coats of it within an hour, where the oil paint takes about 20 hours between coats in my cold basement.

wallacethegreenmonster
02-25-2008, 08:40 PM
Thermo-so yesterday I took some thick old strips of oak I had laying around and made gunwales out of them because I had no other wood to work with and when I clamped them on the sides pulled the screws right out of the side of the transom. Probably because the oak gunwales were almost two inches thick and put so much force on the sides. Also, I think my transom may not have been quite wide enough, nor the right bevel on the sides. So next weekend I am going to just build another transom I guess, slide it in place and screw it in. Any thoughts? Maybe I should go in order next time and put the chine and bottom on before gunwales.

Thermo
02-26-2008, 10:43 AM
Thermo-so yesterday I took some thick old strips of oak I had laying around and made gunwales out of them because I had no other wood to work with and when I clamped them on the sides pulled the screws right out of the side of the transom. Probably because the oak gunwales were almost two inches thick and put so much force on the sides. Also, I think my transom may not have been quite wide enough, nor the right bevel on the sides. So next weekend I am going to just build another transom I guess, slide it in place and screw it in. Any thoughts? Maybe I should go in order next time and put the chine and bottom on before gunwales.

I think that might be the issue! My gunwales bent fine, but they were fir, ripped 1/4" thick. They were 2" wide, but the bending axis was only 1/4"

The build sequence I found best was this:

1. With stem, frame, and transom temp-screwed, dry fit the bottom, making sure you have clearance for external chines, if you use them.
2. If bottom fits, glue/nail the stem, frame, transom in place to the sides, but not the bottom yet
3. Attatch chines to the sides, plane them flat
4. then attatch bottom and trim excess
5. flip over, and then work on topside stuff like gunwales, inwales, etc...

hope that helps!

wallacethegreenmonster
02-26-2008, 09:12 PM
Thermo-thanks for the input. I agree with your sequence. I think I wanted the thick gunwales because I plan on rowing this boat pretty hard on the bays. Though it will be for very calm days I wanted some really thick lumber on which to mount the oarlocks. I think it will work out in the end but I am going to have to cut a new transom that is a little wider as I will be losing a little off the back end.

jerrycashman
02-26-2008, 10:12 PM
Hi Thermo,

Great to see someone else building a Summer Breeze... I'm working on one too... but it looks like I work a little slower than you...

I've got a few build photo's on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23438966@N07/sets/72157603844285468/);

cheers. Jerry.

Jerry Cashman
Canberra, Oz.

Thermo
02-26-2008, 10:26 PM
Thermo-thanks for the input. I agree with your sequence. I think I wanted the thick gunwales because I plan on rowing this boat pretty hard on the bays. Though it will be for very calm days I wanted some really thick lumber on which to mount the oarlocks. I think it will work out in the end but I am going to have to cut a new transom that is a little wider as I will be losing a little off the back end.

You know what might help (it helped me when I used over-thick plywood for the bottom) is to get one of those dressmaker's garment-steamers with the flexible handle and steam the heck out of the wood before bending it. I had one already because I used to be a dressmaker, but you can get them at wal-mart and such.

Also, there's a big fun in wrapping / covering the wood in wet towels and pouring buckets of scalding water on them while you force the bend.

I don't think it will hurt to make the transom a bit wider. I think the design is pretty flexible :)


Hi Thermo,

Great to see someone else building a Summer Breeze... I'm working on one too... but it looks like I work a little slower than you...

I've got a few build photo's on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23438966@N07/sets/72157603844285468/);

cheers. Jerry.

Jerry Cashman
Canberra, Oz.

Someone linked me that set of pics further up the thread here. I was insanely jealous of that beautiful centerboard trunk! Yours will probably sail much better than mine because of it. But, mine might be easier to lay down in and get a tan!

MiddleAgesMan
03-01-2008, 11:21 AM
Did you guys use PL premium for fillets inside? I'm thinking of taking the PL Premium shortcut for the small amount of fillets called for in my skiff and I'm wondering how that works compared to epoxy fillets.

Thorne
03-01-2008, 11:28 AM
One issue with PL Premium is the expansion/bubbling. Also when laid on thickly without filler (sawdust or whatever) it can take a long time to cure in the center. You will need to take several passes at smoothing it down as it expands -- remember those Nitrile gloves.

I'd try a test fillet or two on some scrap ply.

Spokaloo
03-01-2008, 01:04 PM
epoxy is leaps and bounds easier to work with in viscosity, ability to be filled to suit, and lessening of "wakes" when pulling. PL has a tendency to stick to your filleting tool in troublesome ways, flows poorly, and bubbles in many circumstances (happened on my summerbreeze).

If you have epoxy, use it. If PL is your only option, then go for it.

E

MiddleAgesMan
03-01-2008, 03:18 PM
It seems PL Premium would not be a short cut at all. Thanks for pointing out the problems with it. Never having used it I just assumed something ready-to-use that could be squeezed out of a tube would be easier than mixing, applying and shaping epoxy fillets. I have worked with similar products, however, and I can appreciate what Spokaloo is saying about shaping the fillets and its tendency to attach itself to any shaping/smoothing device so I'll go back to the epoxy fillets. These aren't structural, BTW, but are gap filling to seal up the air tanks fore and aft and to add a small amount of strength to the seat top joins.

Thanks.

Spokaloo
03-01-2008, 03:53 PM
You can also make the fillets for that using phenolic or glass microballoons and have a mix thats 40% the weight of a PL fillet of the same size.

E

Thermo
03-02-2008, 08:47 PM
I didn't use any fillets on mine at all, external chine and all that.

But I did launch today!
Well, I threw the boat in the river to see if my leak was fixed, and tried to sail it.

1. The leak WAS fixed, and I can finally screw the top deck onto the aft airbox tomorrow!

2. I think it sailed. The river was moving FAST, and was a bad place to try to test-sail. We started shooting downstream.

I pointed the bow up-river and the sail filled. We stopped shooting down-river and just stayed in one spot while the breeze blew. Then it stopped, and down we started again. So, I guess it was like sailing on a treadmill. Once, when the breeze picked up hard, we actually moved a few inches against the swift current. I can;t wait to get it into the lake now.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/launch.jpg

MiddleAgesMan
03-02-2008, 09:16 PM
Sounds like interesting times. ;)

A lake would definitely be a better place to learn the ways of a new boat but rivers are more demanding teachers. :)

Thermo
03-03-2008, 08:50 PM
I tried to go to the lake today, but the ranger I called at the state park told me it was still frozen over :(

So I went to a big pond instead :) It was only partly frozen over, and I had a good 300 yards to sail up and down in between the ice.

So, the breeze was almost nonexistent. The weather called for lots of wind today on top of the warm temp, but nope.

Still, the boat went wherever we pointed it, slowly. Occasionally, a breeze would pick up and we'd move faster.

Once, we intentionally crashed it into the ice shelf (which was almost a slush shelf by that point) and made a nifty boat-shaped hole in it.

With me (260 pounds) my wife (150) and my kid (50) the little boat still went where we wanted it to go.

I took the family to visit with my parents and went back alone to sail some more after they had enough. The wind was so light and shifty you couldn't tell which direction it was coming from, and that kept changing. I still messed about for another hour before coming in.

And how about that? Five minutes into our first ever sail, with my kid at the tiller, we had our first accidental gybe and she got conked with the sprit boom. Good times.

wallacethegreenmonster
03-04-2008, 10:55 AM
Thermo-congratulations, and awesome picture there by the water. Is this your first launch? Spring is just around the corner so you should have many more days ahead.

I am wondering about how to place the center bench as mine is going to be for rowing. Do you think I should launch it and find the balance point that way?

I like the ease of PL cement as it can be shot out of a tube without any messy mixing. It is very durable. Make sure it doesn't get on your hands though. Also, most importantly, unlike epoxy you can use PL at 10 degrees Fahrenheit.

Thermo
03-08-2008, 07:40 AM
Thermo-congratulations, and awesome picture there by the water. Is this your first launch? Spring is just around the corner so you should have many more days ahead.

I am wondering about how to place the center bench as mine is going to be for rowing. Do you think I should launch it and find the balance point that way?

I like the ease of PL cement as it can be shot out of a tube without any messy mixing. It is very durable. Make sure it doesn't get on your hands though. Also, most importantly, unlike epoxy you can use PL at 10 degrees Fahrenheit.

DB had this to say on seat placement:

So you could do what I do. Seal the edges of the ply with epoxy, and then get her wet and see how she floats. In the "theoretical place" a 9 1/2" wide seat will have the frame notched into it 3" in from the aft edge of the seat. However, I rarely stand on my seat putting all my weight over the center of buoyancy. Some of my weight is on my feet. So a bit forward of the theoretical is probably closer to the practical.I'm not putting any seats in mine, so I can't say whether it's accurate or not, but it sounds good!

That didn't really count at the first 'launch.' It was the second time in the water, both really for leak checking purposes.

The pond I went to does count as launch though, (even though it was the boat's third time getting wet) because we got in it and sailed around. I finally retrieved my camera, so now I have teh pics:

We launch!
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/dorseypond2.jpg

We sail:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/dorseypond.jpg


We come in to pick up my wife:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/dorseypond3.jpg

We play Titanic and make boat-shaped holes in the ice:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/smagmags/dorseypond4.jpg

Thorne
03-08-2008, 08:46 AM
(looking at the photo of the boat-shaped hole in the pond ice)

....Hmmm....and I thought I had a boating problem!

;0 )

Looking good, keep up that energy for Spring!

Thermo
03-25-2008, 09:00 PM
Well, today the ice was melted off the big lake, the sun was warm, and it was breezy, so I FINALLY sailed the boat this afternoon. (With actual wind this time.)


Well, this was not only my first time sailing, but my first 'real' time even riding in a sailboat, and it was pretty exciting.

First, the wind was 'gusty' up in the mountains at the lake. It would be nothing one minute, and then gust up very hard, sometimes from a different direction as last time.

So I threw my kid in the bow for our first trip out, figuring if I was to get wet, so could she. :) And we headed upwind from the boat ramp.

We didn't capsize, but we came awful close a few times. We sailed with the waterline right up to the lee gunwale, and water started pouring over once or twice.

The boat moves a lot faster than I thought it would. I should have brought the GPS to see how fast exactly, but it was scary fast for me, first time out. It seemed like we just shot across the lake. It goes a lot faster under sail than a trolling motor would have pushed it.

It points better than I thought it would too, but I still need some tacking practice, because we'd stall and luff more often than not.

But at least I know it sails and is going to be a lot of fun this summer.

Thermo
03-29-2008, 11:39 PM
I don't like to double post usually, but I'm excited :)
I've gotten to sail this boat twice more since the lake Tuesday.

There's a long pond about 7 miles from here that I can get to quickly, and I managed to go yesterday and today. The small size of it means it's easy to just toss in the truck and into the pond.

The pond is only about 100 feet wide, but it's a half-mile long. I guess it might have been part of the river in ages past. The wind usually blows longways, so you have to keep tacking up to one end, then ride back down. As narrow as the thing is, I got lots of practice.

Fun boat so far! Gonna try for pictures next time.

mbarkyoumb
12-25-2015, 08:50 PM
I “just” finished building David Beede's Summer Breeze (simplicityboats.com) that he built for the Duckworks contest. I'm getting ready for the sail rig and his instructions are rather vague. David refers to using a lug sail. After doing some research on the internet I found info on a balanced lug. I think I'd like to use a balance lug on this boat. I've never used a lug rig on the three sailboats I've built.


David's dimensions for his lug sail are: foot 98”, luff 47 1/2”, head 114”, and leech 151 1/2” for a 63 square foot sail. The head curves out 3” and the leech curves in 2”. Both the yard and the boom are 10'.
Question #1 On one of David's photos is a line leading from the head of the yard to a point somewhere on the bow. What is the purpose of this line?
Question #2 Can I use the dimensions from Dave's lug sail on a balance lug rig?
Question #3 If I decide to use a lug rig, does the yard attach to the mast via a parrel or loop?
Question #4 According to diagrams, on either rig, it looks like the halyard attaches to the yard about 1/3 up from the head of the yard. Is this correct?
Question #4a How far back from the head of the boom is it attached to the mast on a either rig? Or does it center itself?
Question #5 Does the sail furl onto the mast on a lug rig like the balanced lug rig for transport?


I am not interested in speed. My intended use for this boat is to poke around harbors and shorelines on mild waters to gather photos as a basis for my artwork. So, I'mlooking for a simple yet effective rig. So with this in mind any recommendations?
Any help you provide is most welcome and thank you! Mike B

Thorne
12-27-2015, 11:03 AM
You might find it more effective to start your own thread on this, rather than resurrecting one nearly 8 years old. I'd title it something about "balanced lug questions" since the hull design is pretty moot at this stage.

From what I've read here, the downhaul is the critical element that many newbies get wrong on the balance lugsail. I think that both Mic Storer and Jim Michalak have good info on that design in their various websites and blogs. Searching here will also give you more info that you can ever read - I find the internal Wooden Boat Forum search engine to be pretty limited, as it doesn't allow Boolean searches (tow +dinghy +bridle). Try Google's Advanced Search ( http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en ) . Just copy and paste the Forum's URL ( http://forum.woodenboat.com/ (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/)) into the last field named "Search within a site or domain:", then put in search strings like "tow dinghy bridle" or whatever.