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View Full Version : Hillary and WalMart, a Love Story?



Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 06:56 AM
Evil personified. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-tasini/hillary-and-walmart-a-l_b_15235.html)

Even Wal-Mart, the largest and arguably most powerful corporation in the country, is no match for the triangulation, pandering and obfuscation of Hillary Clinton. With Wal-Mart rating as public enemy number one among many liberals, progressives and just regular voters, Clinton is finding her past ties to Wal-Mart too hot to handle so, presto, over the side the Beast of Bentonville must go.


For those not in the know, Clinton served on Wal-Mart's board for six years prior to her husband's run for the presidency. She recently received $5,000 from Wal-Mart. I've raised the Wal-Mart relationship repeatedly . . . and it causes deep unease among voters. I believe it speaks to the incumbent's close ties to abusive corporate power: her large corporate financial contributions, her support for so-called "free trade" (which is simply trade to benefit corporations) and her unwillingness to confront corporate power that denies every American, among other things, universal health insurance.
So, I had to chuckle when I read that Clinton, having never said a bad word about the company in the past, recently said that Wal-Mart should pay more for its workers' health benefits. And, to boot, she returned the $5,000 she had received from the company. But, when asked what she did about the company's benefits for workers when she served on the board, she replied, "Well, you know, I, that was a long time ago ... have to remember..."
You can't have it both ways. You can't promote an image of being an intelligent woman who has a pile of facts at her fingertips but, at the same time, you suffer a sudden bout of amnesia when asked to answer for your record. And it would be an inconvenient record to defend.
In 1992, Wal-Mart was simply smaller than it is today. But it was still huge, with $43.9 billion in net sales, 1,714 stores and 371,000 employees. Even in 1992, Wal-Mart was already the world's largest retailer.
And the board Hillary Clinton sat on was rabidly anti-union, was exploiting sweatshop labor around the world, discriminating against women workers, forcing workers to labor off the clock and destroying communities that did not want them. This should not be a shock: Clinton was a partner in the Rose law firm, one of the most active anti-union law firms in the country.
So, the question still remains: what did Hillary Clinton do -- or, not do -- when she served on the board of Wal-Mart? Maybe, if her memory was refreshed, she could tell us how she protested the company's relentless union-busting, expressed feminist outrage at the widespread discrimination against women and was horrified that the mushrooming wealth of the Wal-Mart family was made possible on the backs of slave labor around the world.
Her behavior then, when the spotlight was not on and her record did not matter to voters, should tell voters a lot more about her principles and values than the carefully orchestrated image New Yorkers try to figure out now. The voters deserve to know.

JimD
01-22-2008, 07:00 AM
Obama took a swipe at her last night over Walmart. The audience cheered.

Phillip Allen
01-22-2008, 07:33 AM
Hilly needs servants...lots and lots of servants

Ian McColgin
01-22-2008, 07:36 AM
For over seventeen years I've been pointing out Hillary's WalMart connection whenever someone falsely labels her "liberal." Like she got the job because she's such a Bolschevic.

Which is not to say that it proves too much. Clarance Darrow kept in cigars and good cloths by representing railroad barons inbetween his other good works for the oppressed.

Buddy Tabor
01-22-2008, 07:47 AM
I shop at walmart as often as possible, and Im still holier than thou.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 07:57 AM
I shop at walmart as often as possible, and Im still holier than thou.

Same here
As a single man living on my own I hate shopping. My local Walmart Super Store is open 24 hrs has everything a man could want from frozen pizza & beer to razor blades, deodorant & a socket set at 1 am ;)

Additionally my local Foodtown is a chain as well and is in the middle of my quaint little town but has a total CAPTIVE audience and the pricing shows. $100 spent in Foodtown and I walk out with about 3 bags :(, last night $60 at Walmart and I walked out with about 10 bags. Sorry I love Walmart.

Ian McColgin
01-22-2008, 08:07 AM
I prefer locally owned places even when they cost more than the big box places. One cannot free oneself completely from corporate monsters, but trying helps. Like I'd rather deal with Edson, still a family run foundry - directly than go through WEST which is no longer a family operation. Defender, by the way, still is family so far as I know.

I shop at my local hardware store and get wood from locally owned operations. I shop at three smallish food stores where I know the owners as friends and my locally owned packey (from "Package Store", what we call liquor stores) has the best price in what I get anyway.

I don't even go into a Safeway or Stop&Shop, much less a WallMart. Just can't do it.

Buddy Tabor
01-22-2008, 08:07 AM
I hear you Joe. I dont understand the hate and never will. Its the same stuff you get elsewhere for 2x the price, but somehow if its sold by an upscale rendition of WM (target) or some Mom and Pop outfit who wont insure their employess or give them benefits of any kind, its oh so much better?

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 08:14 AM
Well, how cozy, Joe and Dutch and Hillary, WalMart lovers all.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 08:20 AM
Same here
As a single man living on my own I hate shopping. My local Walmart Super Store is open 24 hrs has everything a man could want from frozen pizza & beer to razor blades, deodorant & a socket set at 1 am ;)

Additionally my local Foodtown is a chain as well and is in the middle of my quaint little town but has a total CAPTIVE audience and the pricing shows. $100 spent in Foodtown and I walk out with about 3 bags :(, last night $60 at Walmart and I walked out with about 10 bags. Sorry I love Walmart.

I figured you as a guy that would cross a picket line. Well at least Buddy(dutch) is on your side.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:21 AM
I prefer locally owned places even when they cost more than the big box places. One cannot free oneself completely from corporate monsters, but trying helps. Like I'd rather deal with Edson, still a family run foundry - directly than go through WEST which is no longer a family operation. Defender, by the way, still is family so far as I know.

I shop at my local hardware store and get wood from locally owned operations. I shop at three smallish food stores where I know the owners as friends and my locally owned packey (from "Package Store", what we call liquor stores) has the best price in what I get anyway.

I don't even go into a Safeway or Stop&Shop, much less a WallMart. Just can't do it.


Hey In my little town I will have you know we have NO CHAIN STORES WHATSOEVER ;) No Starbucks ™ if ya wasn't a coffee they have better coffee at The Foundry. No McDonalds ™ ya want a good burger go to the Cold Spring Cafe. I patronize the local outdoors store Hudson Valley outfitters. All of these places sell their own products or specialized products you cant get elsewhere. But the hardware store and the FoodTown sell EXACTLY the same products as Walmart and Home Depot. The difference is 1/3 the price and they are open. FWIW the local hardware store, which I do patron as much as I can is a real mom & pop place but they are way over priced and not open after 5 pm or on Sundays.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 08:22 AM
I'll bet if you keep insinuating that Ian's a hypocrite that he'll write a particularly scathing response.

Does this make Barack Hussein Obama a hypocrite for pointing this out on national TV?

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 08:24 AM
I prefer locally owned places even when they cost more than the big box places. One cannot free oneself completely from corporate monsters, but trying helps. Like I'd rather deal with Edson, still a family run foundry - directly than go through WEST which is no longer a family operation. Defender, by the way, still is family so far as I know.

I shop at my local hardware store and get wood from locally owned operations. I shop at three smallish food stores where I know the owners as friends and my locally owned packey (from "Package Store", what we call liquor stores) has the best price in what I get anyway.

I don't even go into a Safeway or Stop&Shop, much less a WallMart. Just can't do it.

I try to do the same when I can.. Sometimes one has to, and it has nothing to do with the price, but availabilty. How many Sat. have you found yourself doing a project, any kind of project. You have basically one weekend to finish it. You start the project and then realize.. Umm, I need this or that. You scramble to the local hardware store to get the item only to find the store doesn't have it. BUT, the store can order it and it will be in on Thurs. So,, yup, although I don't like it, it sometimes means a trip to the Big W..
But, again, I try not to shop there.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:24 AM
I figured you as a guy that would cross a picket line. Well at least Buddy(dutch) is on your side.

There was no picket line in front of Walmart when I was there last night. I did have to park in a distant lot due to how crowded it was ;)

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 08:28 AM
There was no picket line in front of Walmart when I was there last night. I did have to park in a distant lot due to how crowded it was ;)


Yeah, Only a spiritual picket line. The Ignorant or those forced to buy there because of need or poverty I can understand but you have neither. I just want you to think about where your dollars(play money) go to.

Buddy Tabor
01-22-2008, 08:32 AM
Yeah, Only a spiritual picket line. The Ignorant or those forced to buy there because of need or poverty I can understand but you have neither. I just want you to think about where your dollars(play money) go to.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/nyquilljunkie/VincentPrice_Laughing_ANI.gif

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 08:36 AM
Joe = Dutch? Another multiple?

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:40 AM
http://graphics.samsclub.com/images/products/0007192103437_LG.jpg

Local Foodtown $7.56
Walmart $4.75 on sale last night

159% difference
You don't have to be forced because of need or poverty to figure that out.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 08:41 AM
Otay dutch , I mean Joe.

Ian McColgin
01-22-2008, 08:43 AM
WalMart attracts some interesting picketting, usually quite local and specific. I'd certainly support a pickett by labor or a community organization. There are informational picketts from time to time but they are there to distribute their propaganda, not to stop shopping. And finally, there's a few WalMarts being picketted by Christians who are offended about something WalMart does or does not do in the Holiday Season - like calling it Holiday rather than Christmas. I must say, I don't have a dog in that fight.

National boycotting of something like WalMart is even less likely than the long running and partially successful head lettus and grape boycotts of the '70's. Partly that's because once a WalMart gets well settled in a community, predatory trade practices drive out local competition and people really don't have much alternative. And partly, WalMart is a mixed bag, doing at least a little more in the way of locally charitable good works to make up for anti-union no-benefit hiring practices.

Absent a local store-specific action I agree with, I'd not condemn a person buying at WalMart or any other bigbox. Just as they have the freedom to save a buck, I choose to exercise my freedom to support the businesses of my friends. No big deal, just a prejudice. And I hate McKFCBK and all their ilk. I'd rather a local stomach pain than an industrial patty.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:45 AM
Joe = Dutch? Another multiple?

:mad::mad::mad:What kind of conspiracy crap are you spewing NOW ??????

Are you saying ME !!!!! ME !!!!! Of all people is posting under any other name than Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ???
Now I KNOW you have gone truly mad.

I have never needed, wanted, or desired to be anyone else but who I am and EVERYONE knows that basic forum fact. You are making a bigger fool out of yourself than any of your 9/11 crap suggesting I'm posting under any other screen name. :mad::mad::mad:

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 08:50 AM
Methinks he doth protest too much.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:51 AM
Methinks he doth protest too much.

Screw you Jackass fooking lock step Paultard :mad:

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 08:56 AM
:mad::mad::mad:What kind of conspiracy crap are you spewing NOW ??????

Are you saying ME !!!!! ME !!!!! Of all people is posting under any other name than Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ???
Now I KNOW you have gone truly mad.

I have never needed, wanted, or desired to be anyone else but who I am and EVERYONE knows that basic forum fact. You are making a bigger fool out of yourself than any of your 9/11 crap suggesting I'm posting under any other screen name. :mad::mad::mad:

What is it they say, the best place to hide something?

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 08:57 AM
Screw you Jack Ass fooking lock step Paultard :mad:

Man, hit a button and released the innerself.http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 09:02 AM
Chamomile tea is highly recommended for soothing the choleric temper.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 09:06 AM
What is it they say, the best place to hide something?

How many times this week have you and Milo shared kiddy porn ?

What is it they say, Just cause you post it doesn't make it true.

Phillip Allen
01-22-2008, 09:09 AM
Okay...I'm gonna stay outa this

ccmanuals
01-22-2008, 09:10 AM
Milo, if the Walmart thing is such a big deal how do you feel about the VP and Haliburton?

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 09:13 AM
Milo, if the Walmart thing is such a big deal how do you feel about the VP and Haliburton?

Bloodsucking war profiteers. Hopefully Cheney will retire to whatever Arab Emirate Halliburton flew off to.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 09:23 AM
ccmanuals:

So, you're O.K. with Hillary's requirement that we will all have to buy health insurance but having served in a union busting role for the company with the largest number of uninsured, underpaid employees in the world?

ljb5
01-22-2008, 09:28 AM
You've got a plank in your eye, Milo.

I'm not a big fan of Wal*Mart, but neither am I going to get up in arms about it.

It's a popular, profitable, American owned, retail organization.

Like a lot of the crap you post, the underlying theme here is that you don't approve of liberal Democrats because they aren't quite as liberal as your fantasies about what a liberal ought to be.

On the one hand, you complain that Hillary isn't a complete tree-hugging corporation-busting, union-organizing Bolshevik..... on the other hand you'd complain if she were!

You're just going to have to get used to the fact that Conservatives don't get to decide who is or is not Liberal enough.

john l
01-22-2008, 09:35 AM
in case all you self serving bast..ds didn't realize that before green issues,
the notion of big business monsters were even on your radar, hillary was trying to get walmart to be responsible. she left when she couldn't
provide the impact she sought. so chastise her for trying while you sit there and simply talk. she wasn't so black and white to follow the foolharded simpleton notion that you are either with them or against them. she joined forces to make a difference. how about you?
i'm not saying she is squeaky clean. but how many people died when a clinton lied?

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 09:37 AM
When do I get my apology for being falsely accused ???

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 09:41 AM
. . . hillary was trying to get walmart to be responsible. she left when she couldn't
provide the impact she sought. . .

Provide any reputable source not published by Hillary supporters to back up your claim.

While you're at it, look up the union busting activities of the Rose law firm, mmmmkayyy.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 09:45 AM
How many times this week have you and Milo shared kiddy porn ?

What is it they say, Just cause you post it doesn't make it true.


Both you and Norman brought this subject up before. Is there something we should know?

You two do seen obsessed with the subject.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 09:49 AM
Both you and Norman brought this subject up before. Is there something we should know?

You two do seen obsessed with the subject.

So you admit it :eek:
I'm going to have to report you and Milo.
It also concerns me that you are obsesses with my genitalia
Shame on you pervert

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 09:53 AM
So you admit it :eek:
I'm going to have to report you and Milo.
It also concerns me that you are obsesses with my genitalia
Shame on you pervert

Joe, I have never ever thrown that label you and Norman do on anyone.

You say I am crass and resort to insults and that may be so, but there are some things that should not be said. You and Norman have crossed a line in my book.
Of course this means nothing to either of you until point of impact.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 09:54 AM
Watch it Joe. You've crossed the line a couple times today. It's approaching the threshold for a libel action.

I'm not Mark, get that straight and keep it straight.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 09:58 AM
Watch it Joe. You've crossed the line a couple times today. It's approaching the threshold for a libel action.

I'm not Mark, get that straight and keep it straight.

Bring it pervert
You and your lockstep Paultard conspiracy theorist kiddy porn sharing buddy accuse me posting under another screen-name and you tell me I've crossed the line. Trust me milo as we ALL know Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )'s line is further back than the rest of you, Folla. :mad:

DON'T EVER ACCUSE OR ASSUME I POST UNDER ANY OTHER NAME THAN Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) At over 22,000 posts I don't NEED to hide to say what I want

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 10:03 AM
Show the accusation I'm accused of.

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 10:05 AM
I think the coffee is a wee tad too strong this morning..
I'm gonna go back to Airlie and sit on the coal stove for an hour.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 10:09 AM
Show the accusation I'm accused of.

When I defended my Screen name against Tyler Paultards obsessive conspiracy theorist mind trap you wrote ;


Methinks he doth protest too much.

Ya don't have to be Shakespere to see that as siding with Tyler Paultard's accusations


Joe = Dutch? Another multiple?


Otay dutch , I mean Joe.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 10:12 AM
Milo, don't kill this thread. I want everyone to see what the other side will resort to.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 10:16 AM
Milo, don't kill this thread. I want everyone to see what the other side will resort to.

Jackass pervert
I posted my thoughts nothing more than a simple little slice of life in my home town regarding Walmart. YOU in your psychotic crazed conspiracy theory soaked brain ACCUSED me of posting under another screen name.

YOU Tyler Paultard resorted to personal accusation and attack, LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO, When you don't get your own way. You pathetic spoiled little brat. I responded LOOK AT the EVIDENCE jackass. Read the dam thread see who crossed the line first, punk. :mad:

Keith Wilson
01-22-2008, 10:21 AM
Hey Joe, maybe he'll threaten to beat you up! :D Don't give the bastard an inch. When someone can only respond to disagreement with insults, they hang a huge sign around their neck saying "I'M AN IDIOT".

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 10:21 AM
Jackass pervert
I posted my thoughts nothing more simple little slice of life in my home town regarding Walmart. YOU in your psychotic crazed conspiracy theory soaked brain ACCUSED me of posting under another screen name.

YOU Tyler Paultard resorted to personal accusation and attack, LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO, When you don't get your own way. You pathetic spoiled little brat. I responded LOOK AT the EVIDENCE jackass. Read the dam thread see who crossed the line first, punk. :mad:


No comparison asswipe. You call your accusation equal to me saying your dutch? Who is on what side of twisted. Its a freakin' forum man. Your biggest accomplishment is 20K posts on an internet forum. Wow, big achievement in an Everquest/dungenons and dragons sort of way. Your big man around teenage boys.
Hit the road Joe, your and egomaniac with napoleon syndrome.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 10:23 AM
Hey Joe, maybe he'll threaten to beat you up! :D

Ankle biter jumps in.....
http://www.drinkalot.com/_pictures/dog_head.jpg

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 10:23 AM
You admit that I simply remarked that you protested too much. And from that I'm called some of the worst names in your vocabulary and accused of Federal criminal activity that could seriously and adversely impact my standing and reputation in the community.

Better get a grip on your temper, try some of the chamomile tea I suggested.

Perhaps a retraction on your part indicating that you fabricated out of thin air a totally false accusation of criminal behaviour on my part?

Ed Harrow
01-22-2008, 10:24 AM
COVER ME; I'm changing forums!

TimH
01-22-2008, 10:27 AM
I have to object to spending money at a place reknown for stealing from its impoverished employees and wiping out American manufacturing jobs.
Its just wrong.

JimD
01-22-2008, 10:28 AM
Did someone bang their head? Maybe a rectal exam is in order.

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 10:29 AM
Okay, I for one have taken my meds this morning. I'm gonna get back on the thread..
I do have to say that I do not nec. like WalMarts. Nor do I really like Hillary. I am not sure whether this thread, as originally posted, is about Hillary or WalMarts.
However, I have a few questions.. At least a few thiungs to think about.

1) Companies, schools, universities etc. always want big names among the board members. Ms. Clinton happens to have a big name. I am sure that WalMart is not the only board she is on or has been oin and I suspect most of the candidates are on various boards as well..
2) I understand the point(s) about health insurance etc with the employees at WalMarts. Yes, there should be coverage but here is my stupid question. If WalMarts did not exist, where else would those currently employed there find work? Now in answering this, one has to think about the education of many of the said employees, the number of retired folks who work there for suplimental income ( and they can only make so much ) the young and even the handicapped. If you can find jobs for all of the current WalMart employees, great but that would be, I suspect hard to do...
I don't think the local gas stations can employ all those at WalMarts. And even then, even if they could, I suspect they don't pay health insurance either.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 10:30 AM
I just heard a loud boom coming from the westhttp://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif

http://tunaflix.com/images/scanners4.jpg

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 10:33 AM
Hey Joe, maybe he'll threaten to beat you up! :D Don't give the bastard an inch. When someone can only respond to disagreement with insults, they hang a huge sign around their neck saying "I'M AN IDIOT".

I see you added to your post Ling Ling.....

You must be as upset and bothered as Napoleon CSOH. http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 10:37 AM
No comparison asswipe. You call your accusation equal to me saying your dutch? Who is on what side of twisted. Its a freakin' forum man. Your biggest accomplishment is 20K posts on an internet forum. Wow, big achievement in an Everquest/dungenons and dragons sort of way. Your big man around teenage boys.
Hit the road Joe, your and egomaniac with napoleon syndrome.

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ): post a normal response to a Walmart thread. Not even political, just a little slice of hometown life.

Tylerdurden response : with I figured you as a guy that would cross a picket line. Well at least Buddy(dutch) is on your side.

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ): Again just posts a normal slice of life post

Tylerdurden response attacking me personaly "Yeah, Only a spiritual picket line. The Ignorant or those forced to buy there because of need or poverty I can understand but you have neither. I just want you to think about where your dollars(play money) go to."

Tylerdurden Then GOES FOR IT ! with; Joe = Dutch? Another multiple?

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):IGNORING the initial attack responds with a frozen pizza saving example

Tylerdurden Then GOES FOR IT AGAIN ! with Otay dutch , I mean Joe.


You seeing a pattern here genius ??

Keith Wilson
01-22-2008, 10:37 AM
And here we have more cogent analysis, interesting and original insights, and intelligent discussion from the sage of the WBF, tylerdurden. He has most of us just about won over by now.

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 10:38 AM
I just found a number.. not sure if it is correct or up to date.. WalMarts employs 1.2 million people worldwide. A lot of jobs to find elsewhere.
Just thought I would throw that in.

TimH
01-22-2008, 10:39 AM
Costco GOOD
Walmart BAD

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 10:43 AM
Oh and screw you Milo I'll be posting on this forum long after you and TylerPaultard are in a pine box.

You should have known better and no I don't by that you were not siding with TylerPaultard you side with ****e you end up getting smeared with the same fecal matter. Deal with it.

Until I get an apology from BOTH you and Tyler Paultard I will be on both of you like ugly on an ape.

Remember NO ONE NO ONE !!! CAN KEEP UP WITH ME.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 10:44 AM
Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ): post a normal response to a Walmart thread. Not even political, just a little slice of hometown life.

Tylerdurden response : with I figured you as a guy that would cross a picket line. Well at least Buddy(dutch) is on your side.

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ): Again just posts a normal slice of life post

Tylerdurden response attacking me personaly "Yeah, Only a spiritual picket line. The Ignorant or those forced to buy there because of need or poverty I can understand but you have neither. I just want you to think about where your dollars(play money) go to."

Tylerdurden Then GOES FOR IT ! with; Joe = Dutch? Another multiple?

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):IGNORING the initial attack responds with a frozen pizza saving example

Tylerdurden Then GOES FOR IT AGAIN ! with Otay dutch , I mean Joe.


You seeing a pattern here genius ??

And when did I accuse you of Criminal activity?
When ever have I?

Both you and Ling Ling seem overly concerned about your "internet persona"
Small minds think in pairs.

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 10:46 AM
Code Duello: The Rules of Dueling
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/sfeature/images/2_1_2blueline.gif
Reprinted from "American Duels and Hostile Encounters," Chilton Books, 1963.


The Code Duello, covering the practice of dueling and points of honor, was drawn up and settled at Clonmel Summer Assizes, 1777, by gentlemen-delegates of Tipperary, Galway, Sligo, Mayo and Roscommon, and prescribed for general adoption throughout Ireland. The Code was generally also followed in England and on the Continent with some slight variations. In America, the principal rules were followed, although occasionally there were some glaring deviations.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/sfeature/images/2_1_2grey.gif

Rule 1. The first offense requires the first apology, though the retort may have been more offensive than the insult. Example: A tells B he is impertinent, etc. B retorts that he lies; yet A must make the first apology because he gave the first offense, and then (after one fire) B may explain away the retort by a subsequent apology.
Rule 2. But if the parties would rather fight on, then after two shots each (but in no case before), B may explain first, and A apologize afterward.
N.B. The above rules apply to all cases of offenses in retort not of stronger class than the example.
Rule 3. If a doubt exist who gave the first offense, the decision rests with the seconds; if they won't decide, or can't agree, the matter must proceed to two shots, or to a hit, if the challenger require it.
Rule 4. When the lie direct is the first offense, the aggressor must either beg pardon in express terms; exchange two shots previous to apology; or three shots followed up by explanation; or fire on till a severe hit be received by one party or the other.
Rule 5. As a blow is strictly prohibited under any circumstances among gentlemen, no verbal apology can be received for such an insult. The alternatives, therefore -- the offender handing a cane to the injured party, to be used on his own back, at the same time begging pardon; firing on until one or both are disabled; or exchanging three shots, and then asking pardon without proffer of the cane.

If swords are used, the parties engage until one is well blooded, disabled, or disarmed; or until, after receiving a wound, and blood being drawn, the aggressor begs pardon.

N.B. A disarm is considered the same as a disable. The disarmer may (strictly) break his adversary's sword; but if it be the challenger who is disarmed, it is considered as ungenerous to do so.

In the case the challenged be disarmed and refuses to ask pardon or atone, he must not be killed, as formerly; but the challenger may lay his own sword on the aggressor's shoulder, then break the aggressor's sword and say, "I spare your life!" The challenged can never revive the quarrel -- the challenger may.

Rule 6. If A gives B the lie, and B retorts by a blow (being the two greatest offenses), no reconciliation can take place till after two discharges each, or a severe hit; after which B may beg A's pardon humbly for the blow and then A may explain simply for the lie; because a blow is never allowable, and the offense of the lie, therefore, merges in it. (See preceding rules.)
N.B. Challenges for undivulged causes may be reconciled on the ground, after one shot. An explanation or the slightest hit should be sufficient in such cases, because no personal offense transpired.
Rule 7. But no apology can be received, in any case, after the parties have actually taken ground, without exchange of fires.
Rule 8. In the above case, no challenger is obliged to divulge his cause of challenge (if private) unless required by the challenged so to do before their meeting.
Rule 9. All imputations of cheating at play, races, etc., to be considered equivalent to a blow; but may be reconciled after one shot, on admitting their falsehood and begging pardon publicly.
Rule 10. Any insult to a lady under a gentleman's care or protection to be considered as, by one degree, a greater offense than if given to the gentleman personally, and to be regulated accordingly.
Rule 11. Offenses originating or accruing from the support of ladies' reputations, to be considered as less unjustifiable than any others of the same class, and as admitting of slighter apologies by the aggressor: this to be determined by the circumstances of the case, but always favorable to the lady.
Rule 12. In simple, unpremeditated recontres with the smallsword, or couteau de chasse, the rule is -- first draw, first sheath, unless blood is drawn; then both sheath, and proceed to investigation.
Rule 13. No dumb shooting or firing in the air is admissible in any case. The challenger ought not to have challenged without receiving offense; and the challenged ought, if he gave offense, to have made an apology before he came on the ground; therefore, children's play must be dishonorable on one side or the other, and is accordingly prohibited.
Rule 14. Seconds to be of equal rank in society with the principals they attend, inasmuch as a second may either choose or chance to become a principal, and equality is indispensible.
Rule 15. Challenges are never to be delivered at night, unless the party to be challenged intend leaving the place of offense before morning; for it is desirable to avoid all hot-headed proceedings.
Rule 16. The challenged has the right to choose his own weapon, unless the challenger gives his honor he is no swordsman; after which, however, he can decline any second species of weapon proposed by the challenged.
Rule 17. The challenged chooses his ground; the challenger chooses his distance; the seconds fix the time and terms of firing.
Rule 18. The seconds load in presence of each other, unless they give their mutual honors they have charged smooth and single, which should be held sufficient.
Rule 19. Firing may be regulated -- first by signal; secondly, by word of command; or thirdly, at pleasure -- as may be agreeable to the parties. In the latter case, the parties may fire at their reasonable leisure, but second presents and rests are strictly prohibited.
Rule 20. In all cases a miss-fire is equivalent to a shot, and a snap or non-cock is to be considered as a miss-fire.
Rule 21. Seconds are bound to attempt a reconciliation before the meeting takes place, or after sufficient firing or hits, as specified.
Rule 22. Any wound sufficient to agitate the nerves and necessarily make the hand shake, must end the business for that day.
Rule 23. If the cause of the meeting be of such a nature that no apology or explanation can or will be received, the challenged takes his ground, and calls on the challenger to proceed as he chooses; in such cases, firing at pleasure is the usual practice, but may be varied by agreement.
Rule 24. In slight cases, the second hands his principal but one pistol; but in gross cases, two, holding another case ready charged in reserve.
Rule 25. Where seconds disagree, and resolve to exchange shots themselves, it must be at the same time and at right angles with their principals, thus:
If with swords, side by side, with five paces interval.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 10:48 AM
"Until I get an apology from BOTH you and Tyler Paultard I will be on both of you like ugly on an ape. NO ONE NO ONE !!! CAN KEEP UP WITH ME IN THAT REGARD."

Oh my the God of WBF has spoken..........................

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/8404/dcpgl1109sa.jpg

Ian McColgin
01-22-2008, 10:51 AM
Amidst the ad hominem fulminations, we can still glean several serious issues raised by Joe, Jamie, ljb5, john l, Norm, and others that revolve in various ways around how deep a participation in corporate economic activity taints a person with that corporation’s various sins.

Does buying at WalMart equal personal profiteering on the backs of the underpaid?

Does picking an attainable couple of issues as a WalMart Board member show good tactical judgment or phony sell-out to corporate greed?

Given the highly religious nature of some of the vituperation, it makes sense to see this question as a specific of the more general questions about how to reconcile participation in the world with harkening to the word; how to cleave to the Immago while incarnate in the corruptible body.

Might these formulations be a false use of the law of the excluded middle?

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 10:54 AM
And when did I accuse you of Criminal activity?
When ever have I?

Both you and Ling Ling seem overly concerned about your "internet persona"
Small minds think in pairs.

You made a FALSE accusation and attacked first.
I made a equally FALSE accusation to show how simple it is to post an personal attack that can not be readily confirmed or denied.

So I retorted with an updated version of the classic so how many times a week do you beat your wife.

I even included the line: What is it they say, Just cause you post it doesn't make it true.

You still don't get it. :rolleyes:

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 11:00 AM
You made a FALSE accusation and attacked first.
I made a equally FALSE accusation to show how simple it is to post an personal attack that can not be readily confirmed or denied.

So I retorted with an updated version of the classic so how many times a week do you beat your wife.

I even included the line: What is it they say, Just cause you post it doesn't make it true.

You still don't get it. :rolleyes:

Don't have to get it suckbag. When Have I ever accused someone of criminal activity?

Still waiting.....

Never mind the fact that you brought Milo a Teacher into it.
Now thats its out there it could cause problems in his career.
You of all people should know that after what (supposedly)was done to you.
Its a scumbag thing no matter how you try and justify it Joe.

ishmael
01-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Temper temper gents. Joe's Irish, what's your excuse Mark? (That was a joke!) Libel on the internet isn't a joke.

But anyway, back to Walmart and other big chains. I shop at both because often they are the only game in town. If I can buy something from a local hardware for not outrageous money I'll do that, but it's just not an option for stuff from socks to onions.

Frankly, the shopping experience at WM usually sucks. They constantly move stuff around, and finding a clerk who has any knowledge of their department would try a saint's patience--assuming you can collar one at all.

We've got a mega WM on the strip where I do my weekly shop, and I try to avoid it. I've got the socks, undershirts and jeans pretty well located, but the damn place is so big! Having grown up shopping(and working at) mostly mom and pops, I find the size of it alienating. In and out as quick as I can, most times.

That said, not all my experiences there have been bad. I've occasionally had good advice in the hardware department, and they used to have Russian king crab that was spectacular when I was in mood for a splurge. Much better crab than at the chain grocery down the street. Recently, with the decline of the dollar, I can't afford it.

My last major WM purchase was a new mower. The same thing at the ACE, the closest thing to a small store nearby, was 50% more money. Sorry, but that decided it. If the ACE had a fifteen percent mark up I'd have gone with the ACE mower, but can't afford those sort of discrepancies.

Now, Joe and Mark, et al, shake hands and quit the attacks. Neutral Corners! LOL.

George Roberts
01-22-2008, 11:05 AM
Lawyers work for their clients' interests not their own interests.

Board members have the same priorities. Wal-Mart seems to have done well. Perhaps the board members had some part in that.

Perhaps the next president will realize that the president represents the individuals in the US.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:07 AM
Don't have to get it suckbag. When Have I ever accused someone of criminal activity?

Still waiting.....

Never mind the fact that you brought Milo a Teacher into it.
Now thats its out there it could cause problems in his career.
You of all people should know that after what (supposedly)was done to you.
Its a scumbag thing no matter how you try and justify it Joe.

#1 In my mind making up continued false accusation and continued personal attacks weather it's me posting under an other name or constant sexual slights, to the ILLEGAL implicatictions that I take ILLEGAL steroids I would say YES YOU HAVE DONE THAT REPEATEDLY.

#2 With in my take on the tried and true " So how many times have you beaten your wife " come back I INCLUDED the line What is it they say, Just cause you post it doesn't make it true.

I hope that clears it all up for you.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 11:09 AM
Now, Joe and Mark, et al, shake hands and quit the attacks. Neutral Corners! LOL.

I am fine, as you know I could give a ****e what people say. Its just one more way to be controlled.

I would advise Milo to seek Legal advice and save everything in that case. The WBF was used against Joe (allegedly) so I would consider that reason enough to seek remedy.

TimH
01-22-2008, 11:10 AM
Perhaps the next president will realize that the president represents the individuals in the US.

Now THERES an idea!


nah...never happen....

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:11 AM
I am fine, as you know I could give a ****e what people say. Its just one more way to be controlled.

I would advise Milo to seek Legal advice and save everything in that case. The WBF was used against Joe (allegedly) so I would consider that reason enough to seek remedy.


BWAAAAAA HA HA ™

Man Tyler I'm the REAL Fightclub™ you poser.
Milo bring it you want my attorneys phone number. ?

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 11:12 AM
#1 In my mind making up continued false accusation and continued personal attacks weather it's me posting under an other name or constant sexual slights, to the ILLEGAL implicatictions that I take ILLEGAL steroids I would say YES YOU HAVE DONE THAT REPEATEDLY.

#2 With in my take on the tried and true " So how many times have you beaten your wife " come back I INCLUDED the line What is it they say, Just cause you post it doesn't make it true.

I hope that clears it all up for you.

I took steroids legally by prescription, what are you saying?

I think you should rethink you disclaimer or have an atturnome advise you. One needs be careful under such circumstances and from what little I know about law you are on shaky ground.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 11:13 AM
Oh and screw you Milo I'll be posting on this forum long after you and TylerPaultard are in a pine box.

You should have known better and no I don't by that you were not siding with TylerPaultard you side with ****e you end up getting smeared with the same fecal matter. Deal with it.

Until I get an apology from BOTH you and Tyler Paultard I will be on both of you like ugly on an ape.

Remember NO ONE NO ONE !!! CAN KEEP UP WITH ME.

So now you're soliciting homosexual necrophiliac sex on the internet? Dude, you just joined Mark and me in the slammer. I better buff up.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:16 AM
I took steroids legally by prescription, what are you saying?

I think you should rethink you disclaimer or have an atturnome advise you. One needs be careful under such circumstances and from what little I know about law you are on shaky ground.

I'm saying you accused me of taking ILLEGAL steroids used by body builders because I go to the gym. You then continued to refer to me as grapenuts in reference to the side effects of ILLEGAL steroid use.

Would you like for me to pull up every single one of your personal attack and accusation that I used ILLEGAL DRUGS ? It could be a LONG list.

I care less about the law in this regard on a freaking lil internet forum than you care about reality.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 11:16 AM
"NO ONE NO ONE !!! CAN KEEP UP WITH ME"

http://img.timeinc.net/parenting/web/images/0906_BRAT_Slide6.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:18 AM
So now you're soliciting homosexual necrophiliac sex on the internet? Dude, you just joined Mark and me in the slammer. I better buff up.

And now we have equal Libel ground :D

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 11:18 AM
I care less about the law in this regard on a freaking lil internet forum than you care about reality.

"DON'T EVER ACCUSE OR ASSUME I POST UNDER ANY OTHER NAME THAN Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) At over 22,000 posts I don't NEED to hide to say what I want"

Don Olney
01-22-2008, 11:18 AM
http://www.deskpicture.com/DPs/Miscellaneous/ThreeStooges_2.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:19 AM
"NO ONE NO ONE !!! CAN KEEP UP WITH ME"


http://strangecosmos.com/images/content/102702.gif

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 11:21 AM
That was directed at three you tard.

Lost............................

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:21 AM
"DON'T EVER ACCUSE OR ASSUME I POST UNDER ANY OTHER NAME THAN Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) At over 22,000 posts I don't NEED to hide to say what I want"

LAW

Genius
Care more about the LAW / Legal threats on this forum duh :rolleyes:

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:22 AM
That was directed at three you tard.

Lost............................

http://strangecosmos.com/images/content/101538.gif

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 11:23 AM
I have to go to work now http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/mudhutwarrior/grapenuts.jpg


See you later...................

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 11:23 AM
I get the impression some folks are disturbed or at least irritated by this thread. It's lunch time and I've had enough fun with Joe for one day. Just remember Joe, you're like one of my children to me, I don't have to agree with you to love you (purely in a spiritual sort of way, you understand).

Can we both agree that Hillary wouldn't be our first choice for President?

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 11:23 AM
ahhh.. just down to two now..
Of course that might be Scot in the background...
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/02/23/gladiator_thumb_wideweb__470x304,0.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:27 AM
Can we both agree that Hillary wouldn't be our first choice for President?

Agreed

Now if you would can we agree that Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ego is too big to ever share with any other screen name ? ;)

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 11:29 AM
I have to go to work now


See you later...................

Remember to practice

http://www.everythingicafe.com/forum/avatars/optimous.gif?dateline=1199498062

john l
01-22-2008, 11:33 AM
Provide any reputable source not published by Hillary supporters to back up your claim.

While you're at it, look up the union busting activities of the Rose law firm, mmmmkayyy.

look milo, i don't have the time to play your candy ass game of look it up. as for trade unions, look at the line of sh-t that they bought by voting for your beloved republican party.

Bob Adams
01-22-2008, 11:33 AM
I have to object to spending money at a place reknown for stealing from its impoverished employees and wiping out American manufacturing jobs.
Its just wrong.

Thank you, from an American worker whose manufacturing job is about to dissapear courtesy of Wal Mart. In my case, 6 years short of retirement.

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 11:33 AM
As I wrote above, somewhere up there.. Big companies like big names on their boards.. Hillary and WalMart is one.. Well, here is the other side of the coin. Please note the tie into WalMarts.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/05/sweet_column_michelle_obama_qu.html

I suspect that if you look at all candidates running, regardless of party, you will notice a lot of correlations..

ishmael
01-22-2008, 11:37 AM
Mark,

I haven't read this thread quite closely enough to figure out who first sparked the sewage slinging contest. But enough is enough.

If you've got a hot temper it can be difficult not to respond to perceived insult in this medium, and from what I can gather you are rather fast on the trigger.

If the idea is to communicate, debate, disseminate new information, what good does it do to constantly make people angry?

In the past, I've been victim of heinous accusations here based on zero evidence. I seriously considered hiring a lawyer, but then said nah, just another silly complication, and I don't need more complications right now. I'm quite sure it crossed the boundary of libel, but it just isn't in my nature to turn back insult with law suits. Or , usually, insult with insult.

Simmer down, all of youse! Glad I'm not in the center of this pissing match.

I don't know any of you face to face, but I sense the people posting to this thread are all of good will. Some are trying to have a conversation. Keep the monkey business down to a mild roar! Something my father used to say when the boys got a bit rambunctious.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 11:44 AM
Thank you, from an American worker whose manufacturing job is about to dissapear courtesy of Wal Mart. In my case, 6 years short of retirement.

I'm so sorry to hear this, Bob. I wish more people would realize how bitterly personal it is with WalMart. Good Luck.

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-22-2008, 11:47 AM
Even with Wal Mart firmly draped around her neck Hillary Clinton has a much better chance of being our next president than anyone the Repugicans put forth because they all have George W. Bush firmly draped around theirs.
And make no mistake, if elected, she will be head and shoulders better that Dub'ya even if her presidency falters and she only serves one term.
If present trends continue Bush will have driven this country off a cliff by the time he leaves office. George Bush looks to be the Herbert Hoover of the 21st century. And he will have achieved this distinction without even trying.

TimH
01-22-2008, 11:48 AM
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see...

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 11:53 AM
Chuck.. You have been listening to Honda Shadow I see. I am just wondering whether it could be worse with Hillary as President. I won't know for a while though. I certainly would like to think that anyone who becomes president is going to be better than our current one but I don't see a guarantee that this will be so...
Then again, I don't have a crystal ball....

ljb5
01-22-2008, 11:56 AM
Can we both agree that Hillary wouldn't be our first choice for President?

Agreed....but I hardly see how that works in your favor.

It seems that your argument is that Hillary is not liberal enough.

Are you saying we should all vote for Ralph Nader or Dennis Kucinich or John Edwards?

I'm no fan of Wal*Mart, but I much prefer them to Halliburton, Exxon-Mobil, Blackwater or Enron.

Like I said, "You've got a plank in your eye."

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 12:00 PM
Joe's more fun to fight with than you are.

But, WTF, it's nothing to do with Hillary's liberalism, it has everything to do with her being involved in union busting in her past and who supports her behind the scenes while she hypocritically expounds on helping the middle class. Yeah, right.

There is only one candidate who's platform would really help the middle class in the long run. Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX.

john l
01-22-2008, 12:03 PM
the problem is that people are angry across this country. some of them for good reasons and some of them for selfish reasons. a lot of this anger has been perpetuated by high profile and visible politicos and talking heads. anger is the message (ie-rush limbaugh). either this country consumes too much coffee or things are so volatile that there is a need to point fingers fast and furiously. yet some people are cleaning up on this divide and conquer atmosphere at the emotional and financial expense of others.

ljb5
01-22-2008, 12:10 PM
There is only one candidate who's platform would really help the middle class in the long run. Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX.

Ron Paul?

Isn't he the guy who published a racist, homophobic, anti-semitic newsletter for more than a decade -- under his own name -- and then said he didn't know what was in it?!!

You supported the candidate of Enron, Exxon and Halliburton and the racist zealot.... but you got a problem with Wal*Mart??

This reminds me of the time you said fertilizer causes food shortages. :rolleyes:

Keith Wilson
01-22-2008, 12:17 PM
it's nothing to do with Hillary's liberalism, it has everything to do with her being involved in union busting in her past Eh? Clinton's not my favorite candidate either, but has she really been "involved with union busting" in any way other than just serving on Mall-Wart's board of directors? Guilt by association is a fun game, but to make it stick requires more evidence.

Phillip Allen
01-22-2008, 12:19 PM
GAWD...I leave the room for a while ayou you guys set the curtains on fire!

Memphis Mike
01-22-2008, 12:40 PM
This is the best thread to come along in awhile.:D

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 12:42 PM
This is the best thread to come along in awhile.:D

Does this mean you are stopping your subscription to Wicked Weasel...:eek:

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 12:47 PM
. . . to make it stick requires more evidence.

Rose Law Firm = reputation as union busters in the U.S. Hill was a member until Bill was gov. and she had to find other sources of income, like serving as the token feminist/environmentalist on WalMarts board.

Memphis Mike
01-22-2008, 12:47 PM
Milo is a big fat Repugnican pig.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 12:48 PM
Oh, Mikey, I was bad to Joe. Help Joe, Mikey, help Joe.

ljb5
01-22-2008, 12:50 PM
Rose Law Firm = reputation as union busters in the U.S. Hill was a member until Bill was gov. and she had to find other sources of income, like serving as the token feminist/environmentalist on WalMarts board.


Guilt by association tempered with unsupported claims. :rolleyes:


What about those Ron Paul newsletters?

J. Dillon
01-22-2008, 12:51 PM
Happy Birthday rbgarr,

and many more healthy ones.:D

JD

What this country needs is a good 5 cent cigar:cool:


;)

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 12:51 PM
ljb5

Please no more Ron Paul letters/discussions...I'm asking nicely...

Buddy Tabor
01-22-2008, 12:54 PM
When do I get my apology for being falsely accused ???http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/nyquilljunkie/VincentPrice_Laughing_ANI.gif

Keith Wilson
01-22-2008, 12:54 PM
Rose Law Firm = reputation as union busters in the U.S. Reputation? Evidence please - preferably actual cases they were involved in. I'm not claiming you're wrong; I'd really like to know.

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 12:57 PM
Rose Law Firm is one of the largest and the oldest law firms in Arkansas. Our practice focuses on complex commercial business transactions and litigation. We represent clients in major business matters regionally, nationally, and internationally. The needs of business are our primary concern.
Quality legal representation is essential for a successful business. Our goal is to provide the best legal representation available at a reasonable and fair cost to our clients. We are proud of the high legal and ethical standards that have been established by our firm and the tradition of excellence which we work to maintain.
Good legal representation comes from good people. A firm is known by its attorneys. Although we invite only the most qualified lawyers to practice in our firm, technical competence is only part of what makes a good lawyer or a quality law firm. Greatness requires depth, perspective, and service to others. Each year, our attorneys donate a significant amount of time to public issues, civic leadership and representation of the poor. We work hard to improve the quality of life for our clients, our community and our families.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 12:59 PM
ljb5

Please no more Ron Paul letters/discussions...I'm asking nicely...

Whatsamatter, Jamie, you don't want to see Paultard's bubblebobbleballoonheads bursted?

The Reason article published here was very, very damaging to some of us recent converts who apparently hadn't done our due diligence. The discussion was a public service.

Keith Wilson
01-22-2008, 01:02 PM
Milo, my respect for you just went up several notches. That was a brave thing to say. http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon14.gif I know how I'd feel if something like that came out about a candidate who's ideas I agreed with.

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 01:06 PM
Whatsamatter, Jamie, you don't want to see Paultard's bubblebobbleballoonheads bursted?

The Reason article published here was very, very damaging to some of us recent converts who apparently hadn't done our due diligence. The discussion was a public service.

Well, Milo, Idid not see either side changing its mind.. Justa 78 going round and round..
Thought after the first page it was just wasted space.

ljb5
01-22-2008, 01:09 PM
ljb5

Please no more Ron Paul letters/discussions...I'm asking nicely...

For the last 15 years, we've heard thousands of accusations against Hillary. Some of them true, some of them distorted, some of them baseless and some of them so bizarre as to make us question the accuser's sanity.

I think we can devote a few minutes to rational discussion of Ron Paul.

S.V. Airlie
01-22-2008, 01:10 PM
For the last 15 years, we've heard thousands of accusations against Hillary. Some of them true, some of them distorted, some of them baseless and some of them so bizarre as to make us question the accuser's sanity.

I think we can devote a few minutes to rational discussion of Ron Paul.

That's the catch though...

ljb5
01-22-2008, 01:11 PM
That's the catch though...

Discussion of what Ron Paul published under his own name is indeed rational.

"Irrational" would be one of Mark's bizarre conspiracy theories or any of Milo's many guilt-by-association threads such as Hillary and Wal*Mart or Obama and the Nation of Islam.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Whatsamatter, Jamie, you don't want to see Paultard's bubblebobbleballoonheads bursted?

The Reason article published here was very, very damaging to some of us recent converts who apparently hadn't done our due diligence. The discussion was a public service.

I am with you on that. I posted the article.
I still think he is the best man for the job in the situation we are in.
Tell me any other candidate where they hand our the citizens guide to the constitution.
Not one.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 01:46 PM
I haven't found a candidate yet this time around without something I find extremely objectionable.

WalMart & Union Busting
Black liberation theology
Cerebral Palsy Malpractice lawyer
Flip Flopper
Fear monger 1 & 2
God's law
Yawn, I'm tired
Homophobic racist

If this is the best America can do, God help us, 'cause nobody else will.

Keith Wilson
01-22-2008, 01:49 PM
Black liberation theologyIf you can show me where Barak Obama has ever actually advocated ""black liberation theology", rather than just being loosely associated with some people who do, I would be profoundly grateful. Pissed as hell, but grateful.

High C
01-22-2008, 01:50 PM
I haven't found a candidate yet this time around without something I find extremely objectionable.

Yawn, I'm tired


Old "Yawn, I'm tired" is starting to look better and better to me. If these jokers would spend less time at the office and just let the people do their thing, things would get better in a hurry.

LeeG
01-22-2008, 01:55 PM
Don't you guys want a Rueben sandwich?

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 01:57 PM
If you can show me where Barak Obama has ever actually advocated ""black liberation theology", rather than just being loosely associated with some people who do, I would be profoundly grateful. Pissed as hell, but grateful.

If you can show me where Ron Paul has ever actually advocated homophobia or racism, rather than just being loosely associated with some people who do, I would be profoundly grateful. Pissed as hell, but grateful.

Getting pissed yet? (http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3092)

Keith Wilson
01-22-2008, 01:59 PM
Likewise, I would appreciate any evidence of how the Rose Law firm or Hillary Clinton specifically were ever involved in union-busting.

And Mark, thanks for posting the Reason article, It was indeed well done. It was a reaction to and commentary on the issues brought up in the New Republic piece, but they're probably more knowledgeable about the internal politics of the far right then the New Republic.

Milo, a newsletter published under his own name over a period of fifteen years and purportedly written by him is more than "loosely associated".

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 02:05 PM
Likewise, I would appreciate any evidence of how the Rose Law firm or Hillary Clinton specifically were ever involved in union-busting.

And Mark, thanks for posting the Reason article, It was indeed well done. It was a reaction to and commentary on the issues brought up in the New Republic piece, but they're probably more knowledgeable about the internal politics of the far right then the New Republic.

I am not one to run from things, I still think its about a weak as the Obama accusations but I understand.
I don't agree with Paul on everything by any means. I am not a LibeRATerian. But I am a constitionalist. I think getting back to basics in law and monetary policy would be the direction we should head into.

ishmael
01-22-2008, 02:05 PM
"If you can show me where Barak Obama has ever actually advocated ""black liberation theology", rather than just being loosely associated with some people who do, I would be profoundly grateful."

Being a member of a church propounding black identity as something superior is enough to ask questions. In my book, anyway. Maybe it was a matter of expedience, but I think he needs to answer these questions.

It gets so ramped up in the media, or ignored if Bill Clinton is snoozing during a MLK day speech. LOL.

We've got an aging martial arts B movie actor stumping for a major candidate on the right (the world is only six thousand years old candidate.)

Someone remind what is actually going on here? I think I'm dreaming, and am about to awake.

ishmael
01-22-2008, 02:32 PM
I don't believe his church philosophy ever says ANYTHING about 'superiority',

A distinct difference of opinion. We've been through this before. When a church promotes African identity rather than a mixed American identity, it is promoting a superiority, especially when the church leadership is affiliated with Louis Farakhan, one of the most successful racists in American history.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 02:32 PM
Keith, a pastor you talk about in your best-selling book as your mentor, the pastor who married you and blessed your house (WTF'sWT?), the pastor you deliberately didn't allow to give the invocation at your campaign kickoff because "he might be too divisive" is also more than a loose association.

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 02:40 PM
Milo, a newsletter published under his own name over a period of fifteen years and purportedly written by him is more than "loosely associated".


Will you for once get the facts straight in this smear.

It wasn't 15 years, it was two or three.

The most inflammatory crap wasn't written by him, he was delivering an average of 400 babies a year, many of the them black and pro bono. Not one penny of Medicare/Medicaid.

You think he had time to review the crap from a friend he trusted?

Lew Rockwell is a supporter of Ron Paul as the Rev. Joshua Wright is a mentor of Brack Obama.

ljb5
01-22-2008, 02:48 PM
...When a church promotes African identity rather than a mixed American identity, it is promoting a superiority.

No, it's not. Identity is not the same as superiority.

Many people identify as being part of a particular group without claiming superiority.

Mike Huckabee identifies as a Southern Baptist. Mitt Romney identifies as a Mormon. Neither is attacked for claiming superiority.


...especially when the church leadership is affiliated with Louis Farakhan, one of the most successful racists in American history.

You do realize that Farakhan is a Muslim and has his own religious organization, the Nation of Islam?

If a person were really a Farakhan supporter, they'd join his organization instead of a different church of a different religion.

Bruce Taylor
01-22-2008, 03:11 PM
I fail to see the logic here.

There isn't much.

In any case, Obama has repudiated both Farrakhan and Wright's decision to honor him.


"I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan," Obama said in a statement. "I assume that Trumpet magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree."

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200801/POL20080117a.html

Keith Wilson
01-22-2008, 03:24 PM
Will you for once get the facts straight in this smear.I have done my level best from the very beginning to try and get the facts exactly right. Criticism is worthless if it's wrong. It may be embarrassing, but one must take responsibility for one's actions.
It wasn't 15 years, it was two or three. The Ron Paul newsletters were published under various titles from 1978 until at least 1995 - 17 years. I haven't read them all, and I don't know what's in most of them. The worst of the racist quotes are all from 1990 to 1995, but there are quotes in the New Republic article going back to 1985.
The most inflammatory crap wasn't written by him, he was delivering an average of 400 babies a year, many of them them black and pro bono. Not one penny of Medicare/Medicaid. Good for him. That's a very admirable thing to do. And I believe him that he didn't write the worst of it, BTW. I'm also willing to believe that he does not now agree with what's in the early '90s newsletters, if he ever did.
You think he had time to review the crap from a friend he trusted? Well, each newsletter is a couple of double-spaced typed pages. They were published monthly. Reading one takes about five minutes. You judge. I certainly would, if somebody were foolish enough to publish the Keith Wilson Report.

Lew Rockwell is a supporter of Ron Paul as the Rev. Joshua Wright is a mentor of Barak Obama.Lew Rockwell was an employee of Ron Paul, publishing material under Ron Paul's name. I have quite a few friends with whom I disagree profoundly. One man who I could consider a mentor had a signed picture of Newt Gingrich in his office. Considering that Barak Obama has spent his entire political career speaking against the sort of separatism and divisiveness that "black nationalism" implies, I think we may reasonably conclude that disagrees with Rev. Wright on this point.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 04:22 PM
Well Ling Ling, as you revel in your "blackness" read on what one of your brothers has to say about Ron Paul.....

http://www.newsgroper.com/samuel-l-jackson/2008/01/21/ron-paul-kiss-black-ass/?

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 04:41 PM
http://www.newsgroper.com/i/logo/newsgroper_logo_sidebar.gif

Good job! Sherlock

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Goddang-nabbit!! Every time I read one of these threads I feel like the Excited States of Amnesia is about to kick off with a second civil war!! :eek:

Mark: You ARE trigger happy and jump in with the personals quite early. Check ya-self before ya wreak ya-self there mate!! ;)

Joe: Don't bite back. Having lost my cool a coupla times here and suffered the consequences, I do try stop, think and reason as much as possible: A kind off rational Stonewalling. I'm sure I'll probably lose my cool again somewhere down the line when my buttons are pressed again, but I do try to guard against such responses.

Everyone: I don't see why you all seem to dump on Ljb5? I've not seen any of his posts end up resorting to personal insult. His responses appear (to me at least) to be clear and reasoned and not at all radical as he is pictured by many of you.

Milo: You are just a teesy weesy bit of a sh!t stirrer, methinks. I can just about see that glint of mischief in your eyes in that little avitar portrait of you. ;):p

Anyhoo, here's my two bobs' worth: Being a politician would be, I believe, an absolute prick of a job. You are but one person representing the combined interests of millions. At almost every point in a descision making process (career) a pollie is going to have to compromise to accomodate competing interests. There is certainly a stronger degree to which they have to subscribe to a moral code, and in light of his preachers daughters' award to Farrakhan, Obama has responded in a measured way, but I do think Ron Paul could have taken just a bit more responsibility for the newsletters published under his name: A mea-culpa or other sign of contrition that his lack of oversight was wrong.

No-one in this wide world of ours is blemish free and I think it stupid that anyone should be expected to be perfect: To be perfect would to be un-lived, inexperienced and unmarked by life: Boring, in a word. The logic should be that the best person to do a job is someone who has seen some depth in their lives and understands consequences.

The Chimp has stuffed up so badly because he had NO real experience in foreign policy and the consequences for the US, both abroad and domestically are monumental. He also had no real business experience, because, despite his ability to run a company or two into the ground he suffered no personal effect from doing so. He does not have any ability to see anything from anyone else's point of view, which I see as THE first qualification for public office.

On balance Clinton or Obama would be excellent Presidents and McCain would certainly be several thousand times better than the Chimp. You DO have some good choices this time around, and to say you don't is really being just a little bit blind.

Memphis Mike
01-22-2008, 06:44 PM
Goddang-nabbit!! Every time I read one of these threads I feel like the Excited States of Amnesia is about to kick off with a second civil war!! :eek:

Mark: You ARE trigger happy and jump in with the personals quite early. Check ya-self before ya wreak ya-self there mate!! ;)

Joe: Don't bite back. Having lost my cool a coupla times here and suffered the consequences, I do try stop, think and reason as much as possible: A kind off rational Stonewalling. I'm sure I'll probably lose my cool again somewhere down the line when my buttons are pressed again, but I do try to guard against such responses.

Everyone: I don't see why you all seem to dump on Ljb5? I've not seen any of his posts end up resorting to personal insult. His responses appear (to me at least) to be clear and reasoned and not at all radical as he is pictured by many of you.

Milo: You are just a teesy weesy bit of a sh!t stirrer, methinks. I can just about see that glint of mischief in your eyes in that little avitar portrait of you. ;):p

Anyhoo, here's my two bobs' worth: Being a politician would be, I believe, an absolute prick of a job. You are but one person representing the combined interests of millions. At almost every point in a descision making process (career) a pollie is going to have to compromise to accomodate competing interests. There is certainly a stronger degree to which they have to subscribe to a moral code, and in light of his preachers daughters' award to Farrakhan, Obama has responded in a measured way, but I do think Ron Paul could have taken just a bit more responsibility for the newsletters published under his name: A mea-culpa or other sign of contrition that his lack of oversight was wrong.

No-one in this wide world of ours is blemish free and I think it stupid that anyone should be expected to be perfect: To be perfect would to be un-lived, inexperienced and unmarked by life: Boring, in a word. The logic should be that the best person to do a job is someone who has seen some depth in their lives and understands consequences.

The Chimp has stuffed up so badly because he had NO real experience in foreign policy and the consequences for the US, both abroad and domestically are monumental. He also had no real business experience, because, despite his ability to run a company or two into the ground he suffered no personal effect from doing so. He does not have any ability to see anything from anyone else's point of view, which I see as THE first qualification for public office.

On balance Clinton or Obama would be excellent Presidents and McCain would certainly be several thousand times better than the Chimp. You DO have some good choices this time around, and to say you don't is really being just a little bit blind.

Blow it out yer a$$.

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 07:10 PM
Mike, I will not "blow it out my a$$." My assertion of:


not have any ability to see anything from anyone else's point of view,

stands in relation to our conflict Mike. I asked you politely, via PM, to remove semi-pornographic material which I found offensive from a thread. You replied via PM with a point blank "No." I tried to convince you with posts in the thread and then I lost it, for which I now apologise: I'm no paragon of the forum, but you offended me in the same way as a red-neck might offend you with the word "ni66er." I find sexism to be equally offensive as racism and you still don't see my point of view. Thus your reply:


Blow it out yer a$$.

As I said to you, I agree with you on many things Mike, but you offended me and continued to offend me and I let it rip, as Joe did above. I regret that I let it rip with you, but you still don't seem to get it. Why? :(

skuthorp
01-22-2008, 07:18 PM
Listen, if you lot want to insult each other go over to PM's will ya?
It's not good for the tone of the place fellers.
"Chamomile tea is highly recommended for soothing the choleric temper."

Bob Adams
01-22-2008, 07:21 PM
Milo is a big fat Repugnican pig.

Now THERE'S an intelligent retort!:rolleyes:

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 07:23 PM
Ya think I'll ever get my apology from Tyler & Milo ? ;)

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 07:28 PM
Ya think I'll ever get my apology from Tyler & Milo ? ;)

What Mmmike said.http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 07:30 PM
Don't mess with Mike, Duncan. He's a dwarf, he'll tunnel thru the earth and come out the ozzie side and bite you on your ankle. Since Mike is a rabid dwarf, you'll need shots.

Oh, about the twinkle you think you see, that pic was taken in Jamaica after (who remembers those little details) a few too many rum punches. I'm normally a pallid, innocuous sort of nose to the grindstone working stiff.

ishmael
01-22-2008, 07:32 PM
OK, Norm, I know most of us don't like to look at this, because most of us are fair-spirited, but are you telling me Jewish temples aren't exclusive, or more to the point, don't feel superior in some way?

My sense is that in even the most liberal of Jewish temples there is an embrace of being "The Chosen." It's pretty silly, but it's there, and I sense it's there in this church of Mr. Obama.

I have no desire to browbeat him over it. I just want him asked the same questions anyone else engaged with a "colored by whatever" congregation would hear if running for president.

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 07:36 PM
Joe, you may get one from Milo, probably not from Mark though. Like my thoughts on the nature of political office above, I think the best policy here is also compromise. I know I'm only a 5 percenter of your post haul, but I think I'm saying something reasonable. I don't think being at each others throats is a particularly productive or enlightening use of our time. Give both Milo and Mark a pre-emptive "I'm sorry" for the kiddy-porn remark and you may well be pleasantly surprised by both of them.

As Yitzhak Rabin said, "You can only make peace with your enemies!"

Group hug?? :D:D

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 07:38 PM
What Mmmike said.http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif

I take heart from the big grin in there Mark! If Joe says sorry will you?

Bob Adams
01-22-2008, 07:39 PM
Ya think I'll ever get my apology from Tyler & Milo ? ;)

I 'spect not.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 07:39 PM
What Mmmike said.http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif


Milo is a big fat Repugnican pig.

Bwaaaaa ha ha ™ :p

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 07:39 PM
Group hug?? :D:D

See Joe, he has seen your vids and thinks you will make a good bottom too.
Milo says you looked like Heath Ledger when you were young.http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon7.gif

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 07:44 PM
See Joe, he has seen your vids and thinks you will make a good bottom too.
Milo says you looked like Heath Ledger when you were young.http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon7.gif

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/buttons/report.gif Line Crossed :mad:

skuthorp
01-22-2008, 07:46 PM
Mike, surely not, Hillary? no.....................
Might make an interesting pres though........

Buddy Tabor
01-22-2008, 07:46 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/nyquilljunkie/VincentPrice_Laughing_ANI.gif

Milo Christensen
01-22-2008, 07:46 PM
I don't know what the hell Joe is going on about, I posted an apology under Mark's screen name after hacking his login, but somebody else must have edited it to become an abusive post.

JimD
01-22-2008, 07:50 PM
Don't mess with Mike, Duncan. He's a dwarf, he'll tunnel thru the earth and come out the ozzie side and bite you on your ankle. Since Mike is a rabid dwarf, you'll need shots...

Wow. That's amazing. How long do you think it would take him to tunnel that far?

Bob Adams
01-22-2008, 07:52 PM
Anyway back to Hillary, fresh from my in box:

Dear Abby:

My husband is a liar and a cheat. He has cheated on
me from the beginning, and, when I confront him, he
denies everything. What's worse is that everyone knows
that he cheats on me. It is so humiliating.

Also, since he lost his job six years ago; he
hasn't even looked for a new one. All he does all day
is smoke cigars, cruise around and BS's with his
buddies while I have to work to pay the bills.

Since our daughter went away to college he doesn't
even pretend to like me and hints that I may be a
lesbian. What should I do?

Signed: Clueless



Dear Clueless:

Grow up and dump him. Good grief, woman. You don't
need him anymore! For God's sake.....You're a United
States Senator from N ew York running for President of
the United States . Act like one!

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 07:54 PM
Mark, why do you post with such venom. Like I said it's not very productive or enlightening. I mean what's the use of being here, if all you're going to do is cast aspertions? The Heath Ledger comment is just bad taste. As for me thinking "Joe will make a good bottom" well that's offensive and as such, a useless and inconsequential thing to say. I've seen you post some really well composed and thoughtful stuff Mark. I and others know that you're capable better than what you're posting now.

The pattern I see is that a thread goes up, you post some highly inflammitory and personal attacks on other members and the thread goes off-topic for ages while you and you're targets fling mud at one another. Not conducive to having a reasoned debate, even if you do disagree strongly with another member.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 07:55 PM
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/buttons/report.gif Line Crossed :mad:


DON'T EVER ACCUSE OR ASSUME I POST UNDER ANY OTHER NAME THAN Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) At over 22,000 posts I don't NEED to hide to say what I want

For The Almighty Joe CSOH it sure is easy your push you buttons.http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif

skuthorp
01-22-2008, 07:56 PM
"Don't mess with Mike, Duncan. He's a dwarf, he'll tunnel thru the earth and come out the ozzie side and bite you on your ankle. Since Mike is a rabid dwarf, you'll need shots..."
Thanks to the Deputy Sherrif we've got a nice little place for him on an island that used to be covered by bird poo. Quiet too, no one else there now.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 07:58 PM
Mark, why do you post with such venom. Like I said it's not very productive or enlightening. I mean what's the use of being here, if all you're going to do is cast aspertions? The Heath Ledger comment is just bad taste. As for me thinking "Joe will make a good bottom" well that's offensive and as such, a useless and inconsequential thing to say. I've seen you post some really well composed and thoughtful stuff Mark. I and others know that you're capable better than what you're posting now.

The pattern I see is that a thread goes up, you post some highly inflammitory and personal attacks on other members and the thread goes off-topic for ages while you and you're targets fling mud at one another. Not conducive to having a reasoned debate, even if you do disagree strongly with another member.

Sorry Duncan. I guess once you have been called a Pedo or Kiddie porn guy all bet are off.

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 08:01 PM
How many times this week have you and Milo shared kiddy porn ?

What is it they say, Just cause you post it doesn't make it true.

Line crossed Joe..... except I don't need scott to protect me. Pussy.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:03 PM
Line crossed Joe..... except I don't need scott to protect me. Pussy.

Can you read BOTH lines of that post you quoted of mine Tyler ????
Is it possible for you to comprehend what was meant by my post ???

Tylerdurden
01-22-2008, 08:07 PM
Can you read BOTH lines of that post you quoted of mine Tyler ????
Is it possible for you to comprehend what was meant by my post ???

It only can mean one thing in my book. And I didn't push the "Scott this man is bothering me" button

It was easy to expose you as the shallow self centered pussy you be.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:15 PM
It only can mean one thing in my book. And I didn't push the "Scott this man is bothering me" button

It was easy to expose you as the shallow self centered pussy you be.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/buttons/report.gif Line Crossed Again :mad:

FWIW Mark understand we are guests here this is not your personal attack forum if you don't like a persons opinion. You can not launch into ad hom psycho sexual attacks. It's simply not the forum for that. Go and GO find a suitable forum for your lash out needs. Also look around NO one on this forum supports your position and NO ONE supports how you handle those who oppose your position even Milo is backing away from you at this point.

Psssst take if from someone who used to enjoy your posts you're looking like an idiot.

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 08:27 PM
Well as far as MM goes all bet are off there.

Just to make sure that you understand how offended I am Mike:


Dear Scot,

I have to say I'm heartily sick of Memphis Mike (and a few others) posting material of a semi pornographic nature on the forum. With over 70% of the internet devoted to porn and smut, do you think it would be possible to keep our little corner porn and smut free. I find it (sexism) offensive in the same way I [and Memphis Mike BTW] find the use of words like "ni66er" offensive. Why should I be subject to offensive material such as this when I've clearly explained to him why I take offense.

Here is the link: http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?p=1744603#post1744603

I sincerly hope you read him the riot act.

Yours faithfully

Duncan Gibbs

This has now been sent to Scot.

There are some things I do not, and will not tolerate Mike:
1. Sexism
2. Racism (one of your favourites I take it!)
3. Homophobia and homophobic insults
4. Any other form of derogation not based on the lack of merrit of someone.

You continue to bait me, ultimately at your own peril. "Hoisted on his own petarde," comes to mind. I've asked you to be reasonable and you have continued to offend. I have no idea why! :confused::mad::(

Now, Mark, if Joe retracts and apologises for the kiddie-porn comment will you apologise to Joe? Same for you Joe: If Mark retracts and apologises for the "Dutch" comment will you apoloigise to Mark?

It could be that easy.

High C
01-22-2008, 08:28 PM
...this is not your personal attack forum if you don't like a persons opinion. ...

Spew!!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/oa048.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:34 PM
Well as far as MM goes all bet are off there.

Just to make sure that you understand how offended I am Mike:



This has now been sent to Scot.

There are some things I do not, and will not tolerate Mike:
1. Sexism
2. Racism (one of your favourites I take it!)
3. Homophobia and homophobic insults
4. Any other form of derogation not based on the lack of merrit of someone.

You continue to bait me, ultimately at your own peril. "Hoisted on his own petarde," comes to mind. I've asked you to be reasonable and you have continued to offend. I have no idea why! :confused::mad::(

Now, Mark, if Joe retracts and apologises for the kiddie-porn comment will you apologise to Joe? Same for you Joe: If Mark retracts and apologises for the "Dutch" comment will you apoloigise to Mark?

It could be that easy.

I retract my kiddy porn comment, and apologize to both Tyler and Milo. it's intended purpose was misconstrued.

The point I was trying to bash into Tylers head was a take off on the old rhetorical line "So How Many Times this week have you beaten your wife. that is impossible for the accused to defend.
I updated it to the most horrendous acts in todays society for impact. In the end I guess I should have just gone with the original.

I hope that clears that particular matter up.

So not only was I the LAST to post any attack, I'm the first to apologize. My Karma is intact.

Ross M
01-22-2008, 08:36 PM
...
Now, Mark, if Joe retracts and apologises for the kiddie-porn comment will you apologise to Joe? Same for you Joe: If Mark retracts and apologises for the "Dutch" comment will you apoloigise to Mark?

It could be that easy.

Dagnabit, Duncan you are ignoring Rule 1, as properly posted by S.V. Airlie on page two of the thread:

"Rule 1. The first offense requires the first apology, though the retort may have been more offensive than the insult. Example: A tells B he is impertinent, etc. B retorts that he lies; yet A must make the first apology because he gave the first offense, and then (after one fire) B may explain away the retort by a subsequent apology."

Ross

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 08:39 PM
Good on you Joe! Now Mark it's your turn to drive your karma over your dogma! :D:D

Milo? A wink in this direction too mate??

ishmael
01-22-2008, 08:40 PM
Norm,

It is a silly thing, but not a silly observation of the "churchified" be they Jewish temple or Christian church, or Muslim temple attendees. You can deny it all you want, make rationalizations, but it doesn't make this silly ideation go away. It's not rational!

I wish I could wave a wand and make it go somewhere. Off to a good analysis would be my choice, but a religious bent might take it somewhere good.

To deny it's happening is the racism. And you don't even see it! You don't see a whit just how racist your views are. We think of racism as something active. But much of it is percolating very much under the surface.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 08:41 PM
Well, your karma may be intact... but then again, 'tact' isn't yer strong suit! :D

(Love ya, Joe! :p)

<In tonight's performance The roll of Donn will be played by Norman Bernstein>

You try 22,500+ post and not make a typo I'm amazed I spelled the words I spelled correctly :D

Ian McColgin
01-22-2008, 10:14 PM
Norm, you fail to realize that only black people, Moslems and Jews have any obligation to abnegate their culture in the church, mosque or temple of their choise.

Ah well. I'm temporarily out of patience with people who cleave to impressions of their own imagining rather than the impressions that flow when one opens ones eyes and mind and ears and heart.

Memphis Mike
01-22-2008, 10:40 PM
Well as far as MM goes all bet are off there.

Just to make sure that you understand how offended I am Mike:



This has now been sent to Scot.

There are some things I do not, and will not tolerate Mike:
1. Sexism
2. Racism (one of your favourites I take it!)
3. Homophobia and homophobic insults
4. Any other form of derogation not based on the lack of merrit of someone.

You continue to bait me, ultimately at your own peril. "Hoisted on his own petarde," comes to mind. I've asked you to be reasonable and you have continued to offend. I have no idea why! :confused::mad::(

Now, Mark, if Joe retracts and apologises for the kiddie-porn comment will you apologise to Joe? Same for you Joe: If Mark retracts and apologises for the "Dutch" comment will you apoloigise to Mark?

It could be that easy.

OK.

J. Dillon
01-22-2008, 11:03 PM
I just glanced throught some of this dribble above and concluded :

1. I feel truly sorry for Scott.

2. I'll be glad when the sailing, boating season gets her in the N. H

3 No wonder some of the great minds have left here.

JD

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 11:23 PM
MM, I'll take that "OK" of yours as an indication you will cease with the offending material. I see that the one above is gone! :) And once again I apologise for letting it rip with you late last year. As such I extend my hand in proper friendship! Mates again!?! :)

Mr Dillon, I concur with your thoughts. I get turned off by the mud slinging down here in the bilge (Dog knows, I've been guilty of some since I arrived to the forum :rolleyes:), but rather than go away, this time I thought it more appropriate to attempt to defuse the situation.

Reason above all else,... Particularly dribble!! ;)

Memphis Mike
01-22-2008, 11:23 PM
I just glanced throught some of this dribble above and concluded :

1. I feel truly sorry for Scott.

2. I'll be glad when the sailing, boating season gets her in the N. H

3 No wonder some of the great minds have left here.

JD

Well JD. That's what happens when an internet forum becomes a sounding board for people whose only interest is politics and religion. These are topics that should not be discussed here.


If I get banned as a result of Duncans letter. So be it. I won't be back. That's it for me. If I wanted to read about the garbage that's posted on here on a daily basis I could buy a newspaper which I quit doing years ago.

You got your way Duncan. I only posted those pics as a way to sort of lighten the mood on the forum over the years and you are the only one who has ever objected for the most part. Everyone has always taken it in good fun.

I've met Scot Bell. On more than one occasion. I've met a lot of the guys and gals on this forum and they all know that I'm a good guy.......ah screw it.

You got your way, Duncan.

J. Dillon
01-22-2008, 11:28 PM
Well Mike, I for one will miss the beautiful gals you post.:cool:

They refresh the bilge and we need that now and then .;)

JD

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 11:38 PM
Mike, you've just gone up a good many notches in my estimation! I'll write again to Scot and inform him of our compact: This gladdens my heart because you ARE a valuable member of this community Mike, and I respect much of what you have posted here.

Once more with feeling: Milo! Yer wrong about Hillary! She's involved in a VERY tight balancing act, as are all the candidates. To side swipe her on something she attempted to do, namely steer Walmart away from bad employer practices by being in a position of power to do something about it, kinda reminds me of some of the resistance agents in WWII who were mistaken for Nazis and summarily shot. Bit of an extreme parallel, but a parallel none-the-less. As someone mentioned above she resigned her board position when it became apparent she could not do anything to improve employment conditions.

We live in an age of the soundbite, when the real story is so much more complicated and involved than many of us would care to acknowledge.

TimH
01-22-2008, 11:40 PM
Well Mike, I for one will miss the beautiful gals you post.:cool:

They refresh the bilge and we need that now and then .;)

JD

ditto

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 11:41 PM
Well Mike, I for one will miss the beautiful gals you post.:cool:
They refresh the bilge and we need that now and then .;)
JD

I prefer these kind of beautiful gals as they still refresh, but cannot possibly offend! ;):p:D

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1913/10058894/18573029/299966716.jpg

Phillip Allen
01-22-2008, 11:41 PM
Duncan, where do you come up with "stear WM away from bad practices"?

The job always was a political donation by WM...give her a high paying job she doesn't even have to show up for and cover political exposures...Man, you have to occupy the driver's seat to stear any thing!

TimH
01-22-2008, 11:44 PM
I prefer these kind of beautiful gals as they still refresh, but cannot possibly offend! ;):p:D



Any man who is offended by beautiful women has some serious issues.

TimH
01-22-2008, 11:47 PM
And anyone who comes into a forum and doesnt approve of the way people behave in said forum should perhaps find a more suitable forum rather than trying to get people that have been there for years kicked out.

Duncan Gibbs
01-22-2008, 11:50 PM
Phillip, that was a post by someone, somewhere either before, or in the middle of the Mark/Joe stoush. Don't think I could bear to go back through all that mud to try and find the exact post: I've still got too much mud on my lawn from our recent floods!! :D

Be interested to hear from the original poster, plus any other opinions and insights into the issue. Things such as what her meeting attendance record was like, that sort of stuff. IMHO, being a board member has more clout with regard to employment practice in WM than not being a board member!

Also, would be interested to hear if Ron Paul has extricated himself from the newsletter mire!

Still think any of them (Rudy aside) would do better than the Chimp EVER could.

Phillip Allen
01-22-2008, 11:54 PM
Who's kicked out? I stayed out of this one except for the post above...I saw a fight comin and ducked out early

Duncan Gibbs
01-23-2008, 12:01 AM
Any man who is offended by beautiful women has some serious issues.

I've never said anywhere that I find beautiful women offensive.

What I do find offensive is the mainstreaming of the pornographic and semi-pornographic portrail of women. In this instance Wicked Weasel is a company local to Byron Bay (35min drive south from here). Said company has an appalling record in terms of its treatment and payment of models. These are young and impressionable girls who have no idea of what it is they're getting themselves into. Much like many women who get trapped into the porn industry.

As far as I know, number of years is no barrier to being scotted! How long was Dutch around for? Mark has been scotted 3 (?) times and has a pile load more posts than I. Tim, as has been pointed out on many occassions, we are ALL guests here, and as such, we should all try to get along and not offend. This is much different to 'strongly disagreeing' to pre-empt the next possible response.

Memphis Mike
01-23-2008, 12:11 AM
I've never said anywhere that I find beautiful women offensive.

What I do find offensive is the mainstreaming of the pornographic and semi-pornographic portrail of women. In this instance Wicked Weasel is a company local to Byron Bay (35min drive south from here). Said company has an appalling record in terms of its treatment and payment of models. These are young and impressionable girls who have no idea of what it is they're getting themselves into. Much like many women who get trapped into the porn industry.

As far as I know, number of years is no barrier to being scotted! How long was Dutch around for? Mark has been scotted 3 (?) times and has a pile load more posts than I. Tim, as has been pointed out on many occassions, we are ALL guests here, and as such, we should all try to get along and not offend. This is much different to 'strongly disagreeing' to pre-empt the next possible response.

Well, we'll remember from now on that you are the local WBF policeman and we'll all conduct ourselves accordingly to suit your wishes.

Duncan Gibbs
01-23-2008, 12:17 AM
As I will conduct myself to suit yours Mike!

TimH
01-23-2008, 01:09 AM
dont they teach "when in Rome" anymore?


They should!

Michael Beckman
01-23-2008, 01:46 AM
the romans had gay sex

not for me

D:

Duncan Gibbs
01-23-2008, 05:57 AM
The Romans had sex period! Lots of it and of all kinds! So did the Greeks for that matter. Closeted Republicans do too!! Nothing wrong with gay sex... if you're gay. Nothing to do with Hillary or Walmart though!

Larry P.
01-23-2008, 06:21 AM
Duncan if you are truly from down under, why are you so obsessed with US politics?

Duncan Gibbs
01-23-2008, 06:36 AM
Larry, in this day and age it's hard not to be! The US has a profound effect on the economic and social mood of the world. Your Presidents, past and incumbent, have long claimed the mantle "Leader of the Free World." We also had a Prime Minister - John Howard - who was cast by the Chimp as Deputy Sherrif in the South Pacific SE Asia due to his brown-nosing of Dubya! The whole issue of combating global warming is centred on what the US does or does not do. The list goes on and on.

Who is elected to your highest office has deep implications for Australia and the rest of the world. I mean your country has such a thing as 'foreign policy.'

I also spent some time as an exchange student in the late 80s at ISU just after "read my lips" came to power. Thus, I have an abiding interest in US politics.

You will also note that I have made just a few teensy contributions to the Oz Politics thread. :D

Buddy Tabor
01-23-2008, 07:39 AM
Well JD. That's what happens when an internet forum becomes a sounding board for people whose only interest is politics and religion. These are topics that should not be discussed here.


If I get banned as a result of Duncans letter. So be it. I won't be back. That's it for me. If I wanted to read about the garbage that's posted on here on a daily basis I could buy a newspaper which I quit doing years ago.

You got your way Duncan. I only posted those pics as a way to sort of lighten the mood on the forum over the years and you are the only one who has ever objected for the most part. Everyone has always taken it in good fun.

I've met Scot Bell. On more than one occasion. I've met a lot of the guys and gals on this forum and they all know that I'm a good guy.......ah screw it.

You got your way, Duncan.



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/nyquilljunkie/VincentPrice_Laughing_ANI.gif

Tylerdurden
01-23-2008, 09:20 AM
I understand Mikes sentiments. I will apologize for what was said to Joe but I am not willing to forgive the Ped remarks.
Both Norman and Joe have used that and both have some dues to pay.
The piper will be paid, bank on it.

Buddy Tabor
01-23-2008, 12:45 PM
Sweeeet!!!!!!

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Dear Duncan,
You have found us out. We are not one nation under God, under the Constitution or under the flag. We are many nations. It has been so since your last visit.
Starting with the Great Communicator divisive issues like religion, regional biases and derision of the decisions of our Supreme Court have been used to win and maintain power. We have gotten to the point where a presidential candidate has openly stated that our constitution should be altered to reflect the views of "the living God" whoever that may be.
We are truely in a black period. My apologies if your nation is injured by what is transpiring here.
Even tho' it is likely the Ins will be turned out in November it is not likely that old differences will be put aside. The losers will, probably, go in for guerilla style sniping for a long time because it is so easy to do in our society.
Stay tuned.

TimH
01-23-2008, 02:27 PM
I've never said anywhere that I find beautiful women offensive.

What I do find offensive is the mainstreaming of the pornographic and semi-pornographic portrail of women.

If I go someplace , wither in real life or on the internet, if I dont agree with the way things are there I leave. I dont try to change it to suit my needs. Things have been pretty much the same here as long as I have been here.
If you dont like it then just leave...whats so hard about that? Why do you insist on trying to get other people Scotted?
Isnt that kind of like sticking your nose in someone elses business?