Electric motor on rudder

[Roy Morford]

I recall seeing how someone mounted an electric motor on the end of a rudder for a small dinghy. Darned if I can find it now. Can anyone help please? I'm building an Acorn 15 and thinking of the electric motor as an option when the rower (that would be me) becomes exhausted. Many thanks.

[Pernicious Atavist]

try one of the big fishing/boating suppliers, like bass pro shop. they carry trolling motors that mount to outboards and would probably just be peaches for what you want

[Bill R]

http://www.ghboats.com/images/options/elecmotor/motor2.jpg

www.ghboats.com/elecmotor.shtm

[dirtsailor]

Devlin's Nancy's China "DC" version was designed with the motor head of a trolling motor in rudder.

[Ron Carter]

On any sailing boat that a small electric motor would move easily, the drag when sailing is going to be totally unacceptable. This information emperically determined on a 13'6" sharpie with a 35# thrust trolling motor on the transom. Works great if the motor is the primary propulsion.

[Pernicious Atavist]

How 'bout a retractable, rudder-like mount adjacent to the rudder so one can pull the motor up when under sail?

[Roy Morford]

Thanks everyone. I think Dirtsailor knows what I'm talking about. It was a Minnkota that was cut apart and built into a wooden rudder that could be unshipped when the boat was being rowed (note - my boat will not have a sail). I recall the builder won some sort of prize for innovation at a boat show. Anyway, I'll check CL and see if I can find an old Minnkota and take it from there. When I get around to it I'll post some pics. My hull is now finished and I've just started on the inside bits (is that a good nautical term?).

[Thorne]

If you do a search of this forum and the web, you should find links to a site showing exactly what you describe -- a swing-down mount for a chopped trolling motor.

Here's a photo from that site. Most trolling motors have all the power and motor bits in the base -- the head of the motor just has the controls and feeds wire down a hollow metal shaft.

Cut the shaft without cutting the wires, and either use a remote control or rewire the original speed control. Use the weight of the motor to pull down, a line to raise up.

Take care when forming the mount arm, as the motor base also cools the unit -- so don't cover the base with fiberglass or whatever, just smooth it onto the top.

http://www.luckhardt.com/FrlcMtr2.jpeg

[JimD]

Nancy's China DC. Looks like a bad idea to me:

http://www.devlinboat.com/nancyschinadc.gif

[Pernicious Atavist]

Thorne's got it! And no, too much drag for a small boat to leave it in the water, but we all know that, huh.
(Shhh, Ed...it's okay...they know you by now....shhhhh....shhhh....)

[Thorne]

As I dimly recall, the trolling motor had about 16" of pipe left coming out the top. This was laid into a sandwich of marine ply, then glassed, with the wires still coming out of the sealed top of the pipe.

I've thought of a cleaner way to do this, but it just isn't right for my current dory skiff.

Mount a section of heavy metal rail vertically on the transom, and build the matching car onto the wood top part (as above) on the motor pipe/top. That way you could slide the motor onto the rail on the transom when in use, and remove the whole thing when not. The wires would run free to the speed controller and battery.

http://www.luckhardt.com/motor-slide-mount1.jpg

[Roy Morford]

Thanks again everyone. The creativity and imagination on this board is amazing. Here is what I plan to do and why. First the why - this is a row boat with no sail. When I'm rowing I don't need a rudder. So - if I attach the power pod of a Minn Kota to the bottom of a rudder with the controls on board I can have power and steering with the same rudder. When not needed, the whole thing would lift off the gudgeons (or is that pintles?) and be stowed on board. Power when I need it, no drag when I don't, quiet, non smelly and, if I do a half decent job, it could even look attractive.

[Dave Gray]

Here is a thread posted a few years ago where a rudder was customized with an electric motor.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=3483&highlight=pooduck

[rbgarr]

Am I missing something? Why bother with the rudder? Couldn't you put a tiller extension on the MinnKota? They steer like a regular OB don't they?

[Roy Morford]

Dave - thank you, thank you, thank you - that's the one. As for why not just put a tiller extension on the MK? - they look ugly! After putting so much work into making the boat look good I don't want to spoil it by hanging a piece of metal, fibreglass or whatever else off the back. Or maybe I'm just being anal and have too much time on my hands.

[Thorne]

You will still have cables, a battery, control unit, etc. Some of that can be hidden or built into boxes if you really work at it. The battery will need to be pretty far forward to balance the Acorn 15 if you sit aft and steer with a trad-look rudder.

Perhaps one of those computer cabling channels would work hidden under the gunwale?

[JimD]

Dave - thank you, thank you, thank you - that's the one. As for why not just put a tiller extension on the MK? - they look ugly! After putting so much work into making the boat look good I don't want to spoil it by hanging a piece of metal, fibreglass or whatever else off the back. Or maybe I'm just being anal and have too much time on my hands.

Yeah, a long black plastic tiller on a trolling motor would look ugly but you'll still have to sort out how to deal with the throttle. Tuck it way someplace in the boat more or less out of sight one supposes.

[Thorne]

As long as he's gonna chop the motor, he can get one of the bow-thruster models -- they come with a detached control unit set up for foot use.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/01/36/20/i013620sn15.jpg

Various remotes are also available, some wireless.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jsp?id=cat21380&navAction=jump&navCount=1&cmCat=MainCatcat21276&parentType=category&parentId=cat21276
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Pod/01/77/95/p017795hz04.jpg

[Roy Morford]

Thanks Thorne, what a neat idea. I hadn't looked at the MK site but the remote would solve a lot of problems. BTW I was thinking of locating the battery in the bow and hiding the power cable under the floor boards. There still has to be a connection to the motor at the blunt end but most of the wire will be hidden.

[rbgarr]

I'm... thinking of the electric motor as an option when the rower (that would be me) becomes exhausted.

Do you really get that tired? I'm getting exhausted just thinking about the effort and expense of this idea.;)

[Thorne]

I have the motor, battery, cable speed control -- and could mount it all on my dory skiff anytime -- but that time has never come.

You can set up the boat with electric for primary power, but trying to use it as secondary / backup / what-if power will be more effort than it is worth.

After you charge the battery, hoist that particular 70lbs around a lot, and deal with the rudder and propeller and cables and speed control whanging around in the boat -- you probably won't want to go to all that trouble, and just row a shorter course.

If you want to build an electric launch it would work fine, but you'd need more batteries -- probably two or three for an all-day trip.

[dirtsailor]

I know this doesn't solve the ugliness issue, but the owner of this pram, a fellow Ol Coot, designed the steering for his electric motor. The remote head mounted on the hull side when pushed forward turns the motor one way, and when pulled back turns the motor other way.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2265/2213634294_117561e418.jpg

Pictures taken 2005 Caterpillar Island Columbia River

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2343/2212840307_612da4967a.jpg

[Roy Morford]

Thorne - thank you for the perspective. The decision is now made - this is a rowing dinghy - there will be no other power.

[Thorne]

Sure you don't wanna drive down here and buy that motor and battery from me, do ya?

;0 )

Obviously it can be made to work, but the battery acid burns on my bluejeans and aches in my back somehow keep reminding me that it is too much trouble to set it all up for potential use.

Someday I'll find an old Lightening or BlueJay and turn it into a teensy electric runabout -- seen photos of this sort of setup at boatshows and they looked really cool.

[hover lover]

Check out this guys Penobscot 17. It is one of the nicest I have seen. He integrated a small motor in the rudder, it looks great. He also mounted a brilliant quick disconnect to make it easy to remove. I don't know who the builder is, but well done sir. Here is a link to all the photos.
http://orme.com/boat/
A shot of the rudder
http://orme.com/boat/boat3.JPG

[boylesboats]

folding prop could help reduce drag

[Steve McMahon]

Roy:
The pooduck electric rudder you were looking at was built by me a few years back. The rudder was not used for sailing, it was swapped with the sailing rudder as needed and shared the same tiller handle. The battery lived under the seat, and the controls were mounted under the aft seat with a brass knob being the only part showing. If you are interested e-mail me at mcmahon@lbelec.com and I can send you all the pictures of construction.
Cheers
Steve

[Thorne]

scooped off the internet -
http://www.luckhardt.com/ThreeRudders.jpg

[nezih ahmet]

Here is a thread posted a few years ago where a rudder was customized with an electric motor.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=3483&highlight=pooduck

Your above thhread does not let pictures.I mean I can not see pictures on thread which you stated.:)

[Vinny&Shawn]

Check out this conversion on a 16.5' Town class Sloop,that once was ours,now lovingly kept by a man in Bath. Notice the standard kick-up rudder. Nice job!!!
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/vgeorge1/014.jpg?t=1251850999
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/vgeorge1/016.jpg?t=1251851331

Now that is done with a bit of class;).

[Daniel Noyes]

does he sail the townie with that rudder or just use it as a launch?

PLC built a great launch using one of their Lowell 19 hulls and a little 10 hp desiel

[Thorne]

Properly designed, you can make a rudder that is pulled up for sailing and lowered for motoring. One of the boats on last year's SF Gunkholing trip was rigged that way, very functional.
http://www.luckhardt.com/electric_rudder1.jpg

http://www.luckhardt.com/electric_rudder2.jpg

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89034&highlight=trolling+motor

[Vinny&Shawn]

does he sail the townie with that rudder or just use it as a launch?

PLC built a great launch using one of their Lowell 19 hulls and a little 10 hp desiel

It is sailed as normal,prop spins freely,no rush to get anywhere,just a solution to get a person in at times. Townies are sweet sailers as you know.

[Daniel Noyes]

If you are sailing with the prop spinning in the water is the eletric motor recharging the battery as you sail?
Dan

... not that I'd want to recharge by rowing but if sailing with plenty of wind this could be handy for a eletric auxilary camp cruiser to recharge.

[Daniel Noyes]

Am I missing something? Why bother with the rudder? Couldn't you put a tiller extension on the MinnKota? They steer like a regular OB don't they?

I'm still not sold on the practicality of having the E motor mounted permanently in a large rudder like contraption... is the only reason estethics???
cant the trolling motor be more readily dismounted from the transom and stored in a locker or under a seat than a big foil with motor, wires and controlls?

[Thorne]

Reasons are both looks and practicality. For sailing singlehanded in a small boat in light air and strong currents, the motor-on-rudder combo is hard to beat.

Anything on the transom can snag sheets and cause trouble, and you can't mount/dismount a trolling motor easily while under sail.

The motor on rudder also avoids having the dismounted trolling motor whanging around in your little boat, and allows the power cables to be mounted more permanently - or at least more out of the way.

[Vinny&Shawn]

If you are sailing with the prop spinning in the water is the eletric motor recharging the battery as you sail?
Dan

... not that I'd want to recharge by rowing but if sailing with plenty of wind this could be handy for a eletric auxilary camp cruiser to recharge.

Not on that simple but practical application.

[Vinny&Shawn]

I'm still not sold on the practicality of having the E motor mounted permanently in a large rudder like contraption... is the only reason estethics???
cant the trolling motor be more readily dismounted from the transom and stored in a locker or under a seat than a big foil with motor, wires and controlls?

Up close and personal with the installation on the Townie, it is not a contraption at all, neat and concise, compact,hardly in the way. as Thorne said keeps everything out of the way,and the kick-up rudder saves the day!

[Dan McCosh]

Thanks everyone. I think Dirtsailor knows what I'm talking about. It was a Minnkota that was cut apart and built into a wooden rudder that could be unshipped when the boat was being rowed (note - my boat will not have a sail). I recall the builder won some sort of prize for innovation at a boat show. Anyway, I'll check CL and see if I can find an old Minnkota and take it from there. When I get around to it I'll post some pics. My hull is now finished and I've just started on the inside bits (is that a good nautical term?).

I sort of remember that Minnkota makes a motor like this as a production item.

[Dan McCosh]

Minnkota does make a motor that mounts on an outboard lower unit--which looks as it it would easily attach to a rudder.

[Roy Morford]

Thanks for all these updates, especially to Hover Lover for the link to all those beautiful pics. My boat was finished just over a year ago but has yet to feel the water under her keel. An arthritic hip and then a hip replacement have curtailed my marine ambitions but I do hope to launch in the next month or so. I'll post pics. Haven't done anything about propulsion yet other than the oars, which I cut in two to fit into a forward facing rowing system. Should be fun.

[gazzer]

WoodenBoat mag, issue 112 has an article on it.

-G

[Hal Forsen]

If your still interested.....
These are for mounting on an outboard cavitation plate but could be made to work......
http://www.minnkotamotors.com/products/trolling_motors.aspx
http://www.nulime.com/img/id216659/n/MINN-KOTA-RT55EM-Engine-Mount-Saltware-Trolling-Motor-12v-55lb.jpg