Lionheart, the latest J Class boat

[rbgarr]

http://www.ybw.com/auto/newsdesk/20080013171410supersailworld.html

[TimH]

wow!

There was an M class I remember seeing in Yachtings classifieds back in the 80's
I wonder how many of those are left..

[Russ Manheimer]

Maybe Larry and Ernesto can kiss and make up and announce the America's Cup will be raced for in J Boats in 2012.

Can you imagine. If the AC boats were to return to an attractive design, perhaps there would be more general interest.

Thanks for the link,

Russ

[bamamick]

about such things but will aluminum be able to take the loads from the sail plan? I wonder what the comparative displacements are between this boat and a steel hull? I am assuming that they will be close, but can the ballast keel alone make up the difference?

I was looking at either Classic Boat or Yachts and Yachting not too long ago and there were something like seven or eight J class projects going on in different parts of the world. Amazing.

Mickey Lake

[ahp]

It is nice sometimes that some people have more money than sense. I had an afternoon sail on Shamrock V, and got to steer her for about five minutes. I died and went to heaven. It was a payoff for the voluteers of the Museum of Yachting.

[Paul Pless]

It is nice sometimes that some people have more money than sense. I was gonna say more money than god, but sense works too.;) Yeah it is nice to see something beautiful built rather than those butt ugly AC boats.

[TimH]

about such things but will aluminum be able to take the loads from the sail plan? Mickey Lake

Aluminum is plenty strong...look at the Boeing 747. lots of them have been flying for over 20 years and they undergo much more fatigue than a sailing yacht.

[MarkC]

I would be happy enough just to have a replica build of the J - Ranger, let alone have a design team test and create a whole new design. All of Ranger's plans, testing are all there. Building Ranger would be expensive enough, but it seems the owner and the designer Hoek are trying to design 'the next boat had WW2 not happened'.

It seems they have a very good budget:


a 19ft 6in long test tank model of a J.


I think I understand what this J boat popularity is - this is the real unofficial Americas' Cup - for those who don't want to be in the sponsor-train of the AC or the danger of the various 'round the worlds' or mega-multihul racing.

I was hoping that there would be a class of steel Rangers - doing match racing! I note they are using the handicap system to level the different types of J in their 'series'. While I am think steel is better for these sizes - I also note that the German designer Max Oertz had an Aluminium race boat designed in 1905 I believe to match a French boat built in Aluminium a few years earlier.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Yes, undoubtedly, the America's Cup should be raced for in the J class once more.

Without "commercial sponsorship"

"It is the business of the wealthy man
To give amusement to the artisan!"

[rbgarr]

Harold Vanderbilt was quoted (after Ranger's successful defense) as saying that if he and his crew had sailed Endeavour they would have defeated Ranger. He thought his crew made more difference than the boat. Hard to imagine given the margins of victory at the speed those boats made.

Or it could just have been a throwaway line.

[MarkC]

The Captain or owner? of the current Ranger said:

"These boats bite".

He was talking about how dangerous they were for crew - even now with 'improvements' through technology (better metals etc).

[sv Lorelei]

Aluminum is plenty strong...look at the Boeing 747. lots of them have been flying for over 20 years and they undergo much more fatigue than a sailing yacht.


And they go really well to weather!

[Dan McCosh]

Curious about the aluminum thing. I thought Ranger was made of aluminum, and some others of bronze plate. ????

[rbgarr]

The original Ranger was steel-hulled. It was the mast that was aluminum, which broke due to the rig loosening under tow to NY after launch.
www.gdbiw.com/image_gallery/Bath_Built_Ships/0172_c/default.htm (http://www.gdbiw.com/image_gallery/Bath_Built_Ships/0172_c/default.htm)

Defender (1895) was designed and built by Herreshoff with steel frames, aluminum topside plating and Tobin bronze bottom plating. She corroded freely but lasted five years before being scrapped. She had a 55% ballast ratio!

http://i31.tinypic.com/mbh4eq.gif

[Oldsalt]

www.sailing-yacht-lionheart.nl (http://www.sailing-yacht-lionheart.nl) more on Lionheart

[Dan McCosh]

Defender looks a it undercanvassed.

[rbgarr]

Defender looks a it undercanvassed.

:D

I have trouble imagining dousing those two huge foresails and stowing the 80' (!!!) spinnaker pole as they came into a leeward mark. How far from the mark must they have started doing all that!?!

[bamamick]

about how much those bloody sails weighed.

Some of you have seen me write about my experiences as a crew on a 60' IOR boat? When we first built the boat (and I did help do that. I actually was sort-of in charge of the crew who faired her, and I poured the foam for her rudder and daggerboard) she had dacron sails. The heavy #1 took five guys to wrestle on deck and get going. When we went to mylar/kevlar sails it only took two of us to get the heavy #1 on deck and ready to go.

I don't know what those professional crew earned during the J boat era, but they deserved whatever they got paid, and probably more than that.

Mickey Lake

[rbgarr]

IIRC, Defender's crew members were nearly all from Deer Isle, Maine and it was considered a plum deal. Uniforms and meals provided, clean work, esprit de corps. http://tinyurl.com/273jnt

[Paul Pless]

Wasn't this before the days of winches being used on racing boats?


http://i31.tinypic.com/mbh4eq.gif

[Pierce Nichols]

Aluminum is plenty strong...look at the Boeing 747. lots of them have been flying for over 20 years and they undergo much more fatigue than a sailing yacht.

That's nothing -- there are DC-3s (built of aluminum in the 1930s) in daily commercial service in Tonga and a couple of places in Africa. There are third-generation B-52 pilots, and by the time they reach their current retirement date, there will be fifth and sixth generation pilots.

[bamamick]

They probably had snubbing winches or something like that. Anyone crewing on those things could probably beat the two of us up with one gnarly finger. And if he threatened me with it I'd probably scream like a little girl and run for my life (that is, unless I could throw you in between us first :)).

Mickey Lake

[Ed Harrow]

... I had an afternoon sail on Shamrock V, and got to steer her for about five minutes. I died and went to heaven. ...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g65/wlgtoo/WoodenBoats/ShamrockAmanda.jpg

Hmmmm, a rather heavenly grin on this young lady ;)

[TimH]

They are about to break a 787 (stress test)
Here is an old video

http://www.buzzhumor.com/videos/7668/Boeing_777_Wing_Stress_Test

[skuthorp]

Here's Vigilant, 1893 with a shot of the hull shape too, and Reliance, about 1903. A deck shot of Galatea the British challenger from 1886. . Enormous crews on these boats.
http://intheboatshed.net/page/2/?s=cole

[rbgarr]

I have trouble imagining dousing those two huge foresails and stowing the 80' (!!!) spinnaker pole as they came into a leeward mark. How far from the mark must they have started doing all that!?!

There's a photo here of Mariquita (Classic Boats page) showing the dousing of one of those big spinnakers like on Defender. It doesn't look as bothersome as I imagined it would be. Should've figured. :D

http://www.sailingclassics.com/frame.php?itemId=74517