Need crew and repair help in Nova Scotia

[windward]

Need crew for quite large sailboat on Lake Bras d'Or, which is at the northern end of Nova Scotia. Boat is big, needs at least 2 people, will sleep 6. Crew with skills at helm, on deck, navigating, and cooking would all be helpful.
Priority will be given to people who are willing to help make mostly cosmetic repairs, such as sanding, varnishing, painting.
My own lodging is not yet arranged. I can not afford to lodge, feed, or transport you. I have not yet made firm arrangements for my own lodging, maybe after I do I will have ideas helpful to others, maybe not.
I will arrive to work on boat hopefully by first week of April. Earliest launch will be mid-May but still a bit chilly so very possibly later.
After I arrive up there and can secure temporary housing then plans can be firmed up.
I guess maximum time span for this will be five months. That would cover about 2 months working and about 3 months sailing, in other words April through August, tentative.
If you love absolutely beautiful, absolutely classic large yachts and want to work on one and sail on one this might be an opportunity for you.

Windward.

[Mrleft8]

If only it were in the Caribbean.....
BTW. I think you are violating forum rules here....

[JJBoatman]

Bras d'Or Lakes, better than the Caribbean... Windward you need more details, deeper public profile.

[Gary Bergman]

We enjoyed sailing Bras d'Or Lake last year as an alternative route to Sydney from Port Hawksbury...Careful, tho, as the fog is wicked at times and the lake has some shallow spots and reefs...

[Woxbox]

Personally, if I was going to donate a bunch of my time (and I do, actually) to a wooden boat, I'd do it for a non-profit with a public mission of some sort.

[mmd]

I'll bet that he's talking about Elsie, Alexander Graham Bell's 1917 yawl. Nice boat, impressive pedigree, currently showing her age a bit. She's been stored and maintained by a very knowlegeable boatyard for many years. If I had the free time, I'd be there in a New York minute.

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/4/1/6/1141620_1.jpg

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/4/1/6/1141620_5.jpg

[wbrent]

I've always admired that boat. She's been listed for sale for quite some time. Listed at $79000, it seemed really reasonable for a boat that size and pedigree. I wonder what kind of shape its in. Sorry didn't mean to steal your thread.

[Concordia...41]

If I was young - i.e. no responsibilities or bills to pay - it'd be a cool gig.

[Wild Wassa]

The labourers work for two months on the boat and get to sail for 3 months? That is hardly an equitable deal Skipper.

Here in Oz we have a standard deal.

If you work on the Skipper's boat without payment, you get to sail on her for life.

If you have worked on the Skipper's boat and the Skipper can't go out, and the crew expected to go sailing, the crew has the right to take the boat sailing. That is the least that is offered. That is a fair deal.

When I go racing, I pay for nothing, basically. Not for transportation or accommodation and often not even for the food. When the Skipper wants totally reliable crew, the Skipper always pays ... but then the Skipper gets a top deal from me too, I would like to think.

If I don't like something on the boat, or there is a problem, I'll fix it. It is not just up to a Skipper to fix it, where as you have suggested 2 months work for the crew, I suggest that that is kept totally open ended. That is the standard deal from me to the Skipper. How would you say to the crew after two months, there is more to do sorry we can't go sailing yet? Or is that your real intention?

It is not a one way issue. If for example at the end of 2 months the work extends into 5 months, this is common, delays in finishing dates are common ... how could you expect to then compensate your crew? after your agreed contract with them ... without leaving the committment to both you and your crew open ended?

How much work is two much work for the labourers to do in a day, when the labour is free to you Skipper? If they are working on your boat I hope you pay all of their expenses.

To me, it sounds like you are looking for cheap day labourers and you don't have a crew ... and then you get to use them as your crew.

Big fancy yachts have Skippers that can afford them ... why should the work on your boat be free to you, when you offer so little in return?

Are you intending to use the boat for commercial work after the work is finished ... and then you get free crew as well? Two wins for you Skipper.

Warren.

[windward]

Okay, the cat is out of the bag. Yes, the boat is Elsie. She has changed hands and I am really excited.

Maybe I am asking too much or said it the wrong way. Fact is, I am flexible. I don't know when I will arrive where the boat is stored, I don't know when launch date is, and I don't know how long sailing season will be. I certainly don't know the weather, nor anybody else's schedule. It's kind of like a rocket ship lift off. The countdown is tentative. You don't know when it is going to happen till it happens. But one thing I do know is, I bought the boat, I am going to Nova Scotia as soon as I can get out of Dodge, and I am going to do some varnishing and painting and then go sailing. My cat does not varnish, and will not take the helm. I have asked her but the response is always the same. Meow. Therefore I am requesting human assistance. If you can't show up, cool. If your schedule takes you away, cool. I am flexible. Did not mean to rock anybody's boat. Please don't rock mine. My exterior layer is skin, not leather.

I just want to go sailing and the boat is too big for one man to sail alone. If nobody wants to help me with whatever very minor work there will be on this classic and historical yacht that has been professionally maintained, fine. I just don't want fair weather "friends" showing up and expecting me to provide the beer, barbeque and entertainment. I don't need that.

If I have to do the very minor repairs myself or hire help I will. And if nobody here wants to help me handle the boat I will find volunteers elsewhere or hire a darn crew. Did I say I'm flexible? In fact, I doubt I could use more than a couple people helping me at any one time. And maybe I don't need to offer the opportunity here. But some folks like to work on boats, and some folks like to sail. If that is appealing to you I am making an open invitation to have some fun. If you don't think it would be fun then you don't need to come over to play in the workshop. And please don't let me subject you to the torture of sailing.

If I have violated forum rules, sorry. I will read them carefully. Didn't mean any harm.

Is this a public discussion of wooden boats? Or a smart alek slug fest?

Yes, I would like some help with whatever little work there will be. Yes, I would like some help handling the boat. But if it aint your game then it aint your game.

I appreciate the polite responses I have recieved. I appreciate the humor. I am thankful for the person that sent the private response that enthusiastically accepted the offer.

There are two fundamental errors humans make in their thinking. One is optimism, the other is pessimism. For now I am trying to go with optimism. If you are too it would be great to hear from you.

[Yeadon]

Is this a public discussion of wooden boats? Or a smart alek slug fest?



The eternal question, asked once again.

Anyways, good luck, windward! Be sure to post some photos once you get to work, then some more when it comes time to go sailing.

[windward]

Glad to know I'm not the first to ask that question. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, I will be photographing and writing basically every day. And thanks for the best wishes. I am really excited.

[Wild Wassa]

You have avoided answering the question, so I'll ask it again.

Are you intending to use the boat for commercial work? ... like charter work, floating holidays, sight seeing, corporate events, advertizing and other?

Another question; Is your boat the property of a registered business or your registered business?

Reading what you didn't want to hear makes it a "smart alec slug fest." Then so be it because your avoidance and dismissive attitude, started ringing bells.

If it is a commercial venture, I presume Canadian law is similar to Australian law. In Australia it is illegal to call for volunteers to do what is viewed as commercial work for businesses that aren't charities. In Australia payment in kind is also illegal. "You work for me and I'll take you sailing," (or similar offers) is illegal for a busines to request, from a worker. Accredited work experience programmes, like school work experience programmes or government placement programmes are exempt.

When I owned a tour company I often had requests from individuals offering to work for free so that they could join a trip. I looked into the legality of doing contra deals, and had the same results on every occassion. The workers must be paid, as I had a registered business ... and they were.

Warren.

[rbgarr]

Windward,

You may want to contact one of the Forum members S. V. Airlie (US citizen) about Canadian taxation if you intend to take the boat out of Canada. It was something that presented some issues for him. I don't know the details.

[P.L.Lenihan]

I'm leaning more and more with Warren on this, especially with the thoughts expressed in his first post.

"If I don't like something on the boat, or there is a problem, I'll fix it. It is not just up to a Skipper to fix it, where as you have suggested 2 months work for the crew, I suggest that that is kept totally open ended. That is the standard deal from me to the Skipper. How would you say to the crew after two months, there is more to do sorry we can't go sailing yet? Or is that your real intention?

It is not a one way issue. If for example at the end of 2 months the work extends into 5 months, this is common, delays in finishing dates are common ... how could you expect to then compensate your crew? after your agreed contract with them ... without leaving the committment to both you and your crew open ended?

How much work is two much work for the labourers to do in a day, when the labour is free to you Skipper? If they are working on your boat I hope you pay all of their expenses.

To me, it sounds like you are looking for cheap day labourers and you don't have a crew ... and then you get to use them as your crew. "


Peter

[Wild Wassa]

So correct me if I'm wrong.

The volunteer workers fix the boat and then sail it back to the US, then they make their own way home, all at no expense to you?

Am I wrong.

[Concordia...41]

I've got an idea Warren - why don't you cut the guy a little slack?

Windward has a different deal on the opposite side of the coin and earth from you.

You've made your point and your opinion clear.

Cheers mate!

- M

[Ian McColgin]

Lovely boat that with minimal rerigging (that center mounted genny winch) is perfectly single-handable.

Regarding the etiquette of asking for help - it never hurts to ask but unless there's a real "sweat equity" offer, the help should get to sail first and then should ask, not be asked, to help with maintenance. Certainly being expected to move a good distance, invest in food and lodging, and do a good deal of work for the honor of going for a sail with a person who doubts his ability to manage the vessel is asking a bit more than normal.

On the other hand, if the picture is representative and she's in structurally good shape - no word of survey here - then all she needs is a shave and a haircut. I'm a slow worker but I've done varnish and paint of boats that size in under two weeks working alone. So, windward, dread naught.

G'luck

[Ron Williamson]

At no point in the first post did windward suggest that this was volunteer work.
He said that he can't afford lodging,feeding and transport.
R

[mmd]

How is helping Windward ready his boat and take it sailing different from helping Margo restore Sarah or assisting Jamie sail Airlie from Mahone Bay to Mystic? Let's not allow the comeraderie and generosity of this forum be eroded by pettiness - if a request is distasteful to you, let it slide by uncommented upon. If nobody steps up to the request, the owner will get the message without having to be publicly excoriated.

[S.V. Airlie]

How is helping Windward ready his boat and take it sailing different from helping Margo restore Sarah or assisting Jamie sail Airlie from Mahone Bay to Mystic? Let's not allow the comeraderie and generosity of this forum be eroded by pettiness - if a request is distasteful to you, let it slide by uncommented upon. If nobody steps up to the request, the owner will get the message without having to be publicly excoriated.

I don't see a difference.

[Ian McColgin]

I don't see enough difference to make a beef about it, but Margo, Jamie, Ed and others whose projects became community activites went about doing and then sharing and inviting. Just a matter of tone.

I take windward's invite as mostly about sailing with priority, should too many eager souls flock to that golden pond, to those who got their fingers in the tar pot.

I also take the letter of the law seriously - if you ask people to sail and expect them them to do any provisioning, it's legally a charter. Even though I have my ticket, I mostly feed my crew.

I not just feed but feast any who join me at the haul-out. When one considers how good help can really speed the haul, no matter what you feed them will cost less than the daily rate on the ways.

It's always well, as windward has done, to make fairly clear the major parameters.

[Tom Hunter]

I have freinds who help me out with my boat, I did not ask them, they asked me.

One of the great things about wooden boats is they tend to attract helpful people. Windward, thinking a bit more about how your writing will be percieved can make this process a lot more pleasant. I learned about other peoples projects because they posted threads that are titled (more or less) "here is my boat, this is what I am doing." Rather than "I need people to help with this, on a mystery boat."

Ian and Warren's points about the law are very important. You can get into a lot of trouble in the USA if the Coast Gaurd thinks you are looking for a clever way to charter a boat under your command without a captain's liscence. I don't know the law for Canada, but you should find out.

[Gary Bergman]

Hmmm...My two cents worth again..I've only sailed those lake twice, but I have sailed them twice, and both times presented real challenges. If the sailors are inexperienced, you can be in trouble in a heartbeat around there. We had schedules at both ends, but it's still rather normal to be treacherous at times..And, as for the two gov'ts involved, it's been my experience to not even be carrying any tools which may look like you are going to work...

[Gary Bergman]

Hmmm...My two cents worth again..I've only sailed those lake twice, but I have sailed them twice, and both times presented real challenges. If the sailors are inexperienced, you can be in trouble in a heartbeat around there. We had schedules at both ends, but it's still rather normal to be treacherous at times..And, as for the two gov'ts involved, it's been my experience to not even be carrying any tools which may look like you are going to work...

[Gary E]

He's looking for SLAVES... you want to be a slave?.. go ahead
Who's insurance covers you when you get hurt?

[BETTY-B]

I agree that the wording maybe should have been a little different. Up front honesty rather than a mytery boat with and comments like the cats out of the bag. What bag? Not a real good place to be hiding stuff. Oh and let's see some fresh pics. Been looking at those others for far too long...

Also, when I get free help when I am broke I provide all meals and snacks. Not just food, but fanfreakingtastic food. BETTY always has killer grub at the dock, anchored or in the yard. Beer, juice, milk and Gatorade available in a cooler at all times. No exceptions. A bunk with wireless if needed. Hehe. And as much petty cash at the end of the day as I can afford. Actually, I provide most of this stuff even if I am paying some one the prevailing wage of whatever job it is.

DAN

[Yeadon]

Also, when I get free help when I am broke I provide all meals and snacks. Not just food, but fanfreakingtastic food. BETTY always has killer grub at the dock, anchored or in the yard. Beer, juice, milk and Gatorade available in a cooler at all times. No exceptions. A bunk with wireless if needed. Hehe. And as much petty cash at the end of the day as I can afford. Actually, I provide most of this stuff even if I am paying some one the prevailing wage of whatever job it is.

DAN

I'm in, betty-b.:D

[BETTY-B]

I'm in, betty-b.:D

Sweet. See ya in the morn'. Pancakes, bacon and eggs!

DAN

[windward]

Fellow Sailors,

Best wishes,

Windward.