What Exactly is rot???

[djn]

As a wood boat owner, I would like to better understand why my boat will rot away someday and would also like to hold that day off as long as possible. I did a search but could not find anything.... So what is rot? Why does rot occour? Are there situations when rot can happen sooner or later? Cheers.

[Tom Lathrop]

Rot is essentially a chemical reaction, but that does not answer your question. Look at a world where rot does not occur. Everything ever grown or made by man would never degrade or disappear. Soon, the world would look like a teenagers room with no room to walk or move about in.

Rot and it's cousin decay are the house cleaners of the earth. Rot spores exist in the air everywhere except in some very sterile environments like vacuum or extreme dry places. When a tree falls, it is immediately attacked by these rot spores to return it to a state where the living cycle can start over again. Same thing for a forest animal or even you.

In other words rot and decay are good things. It's entropy at work and rust or corrosion are also part of this pattern. So is age in the animal kingdom. What if nothing alive ever died?

In boats, it's our job to delay this natural process as much as possible if we want them to last very long.

[C. Ross]

A recent Bob Smalser thread that answers all.

http://woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=71429

[StevenBauer]

You could also peruse your old back issues of WoodenBoat mag for Dr Jagels articles on the subject.

Start with these:


Jagels, Richard, author: "Dry Rot--Pshaw!", 126:109

Jagels, Richard, author: "Keeping Rot at Bay," 121:115

Jagels, Richard, author: "Surface 'Rot'," 103:93

Jagels, Richard, author: "Thwarting Rot--Safely," 164:12

Jagels, Richard, author: "When Decay Is Not Rot," 105:112

Jagels, Richard, author: "Woodworkers Alliance for Rainforest Protection," 99:125

Jagels, Richard, author: letter on surface rot, 104:4



Steven

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I differ.
Rot is microbial action. Microbes that "eat" wood enter wood along with any water that gets in. The wood is the "food". The microbes also need oxygen. If all three a three elements are present the microbes have a field day and the wood turns to mush. Cut off any one element and the the microbes die.
Now that I think of it, wood rotting occurs using the same elements that make a compost heap work.

[StevenBauer]

I differ.
Cut off any one element and the the microbes die.


I don't think so. They just go dormant waiting for all three elements to be present again. :eek:


Steven

[Tom Lathrop]

I differ.


Chuck,

What or who are you differing with? If it's me, you really aren't. Microbes or rust or whatever, the process is chemical.

[Woxbox]

And add a bit of warmth to the mixture of air, water and vegetable matter to really get things going. Under 50 degrees or so, the fungus doesn't grow.

Or add some nasty chemicals to keep the fungi at bay. Or use wood that comes already impregnated with its own rot-fighting chemicals. You may have noted that the rot-resitant woods, for the most part, come from warmer, damper places.

And, of course "dry rot" needs water, too. It may feel and look dry, but it's finding water someplace to keep growing.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I don't think so. They just go dormant waiting for all three elements to be present again. :eek:


Steven

Sounds like "eternal life" to me.

[Nordicthug]

Short answer shorn of arcanities: Fungus spores are everywhere. They get on and into wood. With just the right combination of fresh water and warmth, they grow, the wood being their food. What remains is rotted wood.

So to prevent rot, one needs to kill the spores, or keep the wood dry, or keep the temperature wrong, or all three. The most easily accomplished is to kill the spores. Next easiest is to keep the wood dry. Usually the temperature is out of our hands.

How to accomplish the killing and the keeping dry has and does fill many large tomes and is the stuff of sharp arguments.

Gerry N.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Chuck,

What or who are you differing with? If it's me, you really aren't. Microbes or rust or whatever, the process is chemical.

Sorry, Tom, but microbes are living things. Rust is just a stone cold piece of iron oxide.
There is probably some chemistry going on inside the microbe, just as there is inside you and me. But, the chemistry takes place to keep the microbe alive. No microbe, no chemistry.
The reason they have found numerous ancient sunken wooden ships almost intact is the ship was covered with a heavy layer of silt that excluded oxygen,microbes or air. In fact, that have recovered human cadavers from the bottoms of bogs that are thousands of years old. They are a funny color and, kind of wrinkled but they are all there. Same reason.

[Tom Lathrop]

Chuck,

It's still just chemistry. Inside, outside, in a microbe, in your gut or mine.

[Thorne]

Depending on how you define 'chemistry', it is sort of like saying "It's still physics", or "It's still made of matter" --

Wikipedia -
Chemistry (from Egyptian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_language) kēme (chem), meaning "earth" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry#_note-0)) is the science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) concerned with the composition, structure, and properties of matter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter), as well as the changes it undergoes during chemical reactions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_reaction).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry#_note-1)



What you folks seem to be going back and forth over is INORGANIC vs ORGANIC chemistry --- but again, all so general as to be pretty vague. I'll agree that the rot we are discussing takes place with matter, not immaterial things like 'moral rot' or 'rotten attitude'....but does that help anyone with boatbuilding?

;0 )

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Chuck,

It's still just chemistry. Inside, outside, in a microbe, in your gut or mine.

Your gut is lined with microbes that aid in your digestion of food. A termite's gut is lined with microbes that allow it to digest a different kind off food, wood. If you or it were deprived of those microbes indigestion would be the result. One of the downsides of certain powerful antibiotics is they attack those helpful digestive microbes while attacking those that are dangerous.
And the "Clean Water Act" has shown us what clean, hospitable water can do. Wood eating bugs have returned and wooden dock pilings last only half as long as they did when the water was filled with toxic chemicals.

[Banjo]

Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_rot

[Tom Lathrop]

Your gut is lined with microbes that aid in your digestion of food. A termite's gut is lined with microbes that allow it to digest a different kind off food, wood. If you or it were deprived of those microbes indigestion would be the result. One of the downsides of certain powerful antibiotics is they attack those helpful digestive microbes while attacking those that are dangerous.
And the "Clean Water Act" has shown us what clean, hospitable water can do. Wood eating bugs have returned and wooden dock pilings last only half as long as they did when the water was filled with toxic chemicals.

Chuck,

You are absolutely correct. It's still just chemistry.

[Dave Hadfield]

Expensive.