painting trouble

[gray duck]

I know I can't get a perfect mirror finish but I'm having trouble getting something that is just adequate. I'm using brightside over primed epoxy for a shellback. The first coat went on too thick (I brushed it on) probably and I got sags etc - just finished sanding back down to smooth. What do I need to do? Thinner? Foam brush? If you say "use a roller and tip it out", what are the specific types of rollers and brush? I don't really have a set up for spraying. Thanks.

[ChrisBen]

It takes a practiced hand to get a nice finish with a brush. You can use a foam roller and tip it out with a good bristle brush. A good natural hair brush can run you $30-$40 but with enough practice you can do an equally good job with a cheap $2 natural hair throw away brush. Always keep a wet edge, but not so wet that it sags. A number of thin coats with sanding between are better than 1-2 thick coats. You'll get a better feel for it with each successive coat.

[Wild Wassa]

I don't use Brightsides so I don't know the specific characteristics of the paint. No two polys are the same in their ease of application.

Just some things to think about when painting in polyurethane when using a roller or a brush. First and main point, polyurethane is clumpy by nature and has a tendency to orange peel when applied thicker than not thin.

Give yourself time to get it right. Don't expect that the first coat is anything special in polyurethane. The 3rd or 4th layers of paint start to respond well to being on itself. Each preceeding layer nurtures the next layer to be applied. This holds true for all the paint types but more so with well keyed polyurethane. I'm just repeating what Chris wrote.

When you sand the dry coat try to be as uniform with your cut and scratch pattern as possible. With a good uniform scratch pattern the paint draws from the brush or roller more uniformly. A big point with poly. Poly only needs keying with #320-400 grit, unless spraying. If spraying #720 max.

Always stroke the brush back into the wet paint ... keeping the wet edge, as Chris has already mentioned.

Lift the brush off the wet paint smoothly. Don't use the brush to shift or move paint around. Don't view the paint brush as a reservoir. Don't overload the brush otherwise you will forced to shift paint around. Rarely will I put more than an inch of paint on the brush at any one time. If I roll polyurethane I roll it on hard as hard as I can so that it goes on thinly. When using poly I change the brush or roller maybe ever two minutes at the most. I'm a professional painter, it is nothing to have several rollers and a few brushes sitting in water waiting to be cleaned after only 5-10 minutes of painting, then I'll clean them all and it all starts again. Using fresh clean brushes repeatedly, is what poly is all about. I use the highest quality fine filament brushes that I can buy. Poly not being a self levelling paint (excluding International Perfection which has excellent self levelling characteristics), benefits greatly from using a brush that is very fine and tramline free.

Thin the paint. I thin paint to the maximum or slightly thinner the the manufacturer's recomended instructions. You have thinned the paint well, when it is like a full cream milk.You can tell when the paint isn't thinned adequately, it will have a tendency to be less self levelling or if you are using a roller or a foam brush there will be lots of air bubbles. Air bubbles can be kicked out with a quick swiff using a hair dryer on a cold setting.

Do not overstroke the paint in an attempt to get it right. Overstroking results in uneven gloss levels and with polyurethane because it skins so quickly you will break the skin in anywhere between 5-15 seconds depending on the poly. The stuff I use starts to skin in about 2-5 seconds, I don't get a 4th swipe of a brush without damaging the skin or the 4th roll of a roller without building texture into the surface. Work fast when painting with polyurethane. There is no luxury for taking your time.

I always filter the paint, using a fine micron paint strainer. This pays big dividends. I always cover the paint when it is in a tray. If I stop for 20 seconds, I'll use a new brush or wrap the old brush in gladwrap. When painting with poly you must make your good luck.

Remember, don't overwork the paint ... ever.

Warren.

[Salty Sailor]

Use rollers made of Mohair it tends to provide a good finish.

[Bob Cleek]

YES! You CAN get a "perfect mirror finish." Unfortunately, the modern "super paints" are often very tricky to apply well. First, as you probably know, you have to have your surface smooth as a baby's bottom and clean as a whistle. Let the dust settle in the shop, at the very least! Brushing one part polys really requires thinning them to suit the environmental conditions. Too thick and you've got a mess on your hands, particularly if it takes a while to dry, which it will. Do some testing with thinned paint first. Nothing thicker than milk, I'd say. Use a JEN brand foam brush. (The good ones, with dense foam, not the cheapos from China.) Keep your wet edge going and lay it on quickly. Don't go back and fiddle with it. Leave it alone and let it dry. Use a 3M burgundy colored ScotchBrite abrasive pad between coats to dull the surface. Tack well. Don't go sanding off what you just put down! (Unless you have to level a curtain.) If you put it on thin enough, it should not run. Don't freak out about holidays (spots you might have missed.) You'll get them on the next coat. Figure on three or four coats. You should be able to get that mirror finish by the last coat. Practice makes perfect.

[Lew Barrett]

Of course you know the basics, that cleanliness is next to godliness and that prep is 90% of a good job. You have, of course, used Brightsides primer, and sanded it as smooth as possible without blowing through.

Everyone's differen't and everyone's got their own little tricks, but here's the deal with Brightsides. Use the system thinner. There should be no drag on the brush when you tip out. Tipping out is a light touch sort of deal. You're just knocking out the bubbles and any ridges. Don't use a foam brush. Learn to paint with bristle. Use a foam roller, not mohair. When you roll, you'll know that you rolled on the right amount of paint because the bubbles will stay put on the surface, they won't walk down the hull. Thinning is related to atmospheric conditions, and thinner may need to be added as you move along, especially on a large job as the solvents flash off out of the pot. Just a splash or two.
Painting, like all skills, takes practice. Something we do here that isn't popular with some pros but works just great for us and that we find is terrific at reducing curtains and drips, is that we tip off on the vertical. Up and down in other words. This makes great sense if you think it through. First, you roll out one or two roller widths, which is very workable. Then you tip off. You have greater ease maintaining that wet edge, and you pull down any curtains. Try it; you may find it really changes your program. Remember; paint and varnish have no grain, so it's not necessary to tip off with the grain; there isn't any.

[Wild Wassa]

This is a wooden rudder sheathed in glass and epoxy. Huon Pine. It is painted in International's 2 pack polyurethane 'Reaction Lacquer'. It is to be repaired and repainted. I picked up the rudder yesterday. The repaint will be in polyurethane of course after the exposed wood is preserved in CPES, then filled with epoxy and glass macros if the glass doesn't need too much repairing, otherwise the glass will be replaced in sections.

Every problem that I mentioned above in my first post is evident in this badly finished large blade. It will take me about a week to repair and repaint then cut and polish the foil.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Rudderrefair.jpg



http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Sonatarefair2.jpg


I'll post photos of the repair and repaint over this coming week.

Grey Duck, I hope your painting is above this quality. This level of finish is almost not believable for a racing yacht. Most of the damage to this rudder is to the leading edge (and not shown in the photos), caused when the blade ran aground. Just the type of job that I like to do.

Warren.

[gray duck]

Thanks for all of the advice! This board is an incredible resource; I am always amazed at the volumes people type in response to questions.

Bob - I'm still not sure about mirror perfect but I'll take Warren's rudder as a challenge to do better than that. 25deg F here now so I have some time to shop for some brushes etc.

Thanks Again for Your Help.

[Wild Wassa]

After cutting the old paint and much fairing with epoxy and glass macros and grinding out the rotten and broken edges and reshaping ... I'm almost ready to slap some paint on this bad boy. I have to paint around the little bumpers on the foil. They are not budging. The first rule of boats ... don't ever do something you can't undo. This is one time when it is easier to leave fittings on and just paint around them ... unfortunately.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Cutbackandfiredtwice.jpg


It is so hot here epoxy bakes, when in the shade ... but curing out in the natural furnace is even better.

98% prep and 2% painting ... and a lire of water every hour is the painter's hot lot.

When Greg H, visited, I remember him saying, "This place is scary dry." Greg is such a diplomat, then he said, "Australians drink a lot." ... yes. I've been known to drink the thinners for water based polyurethane.

Warren.

[Pierce Nichols]

Ok, I'm going to sound like a total n00b, but what exactly do you mean by 'tipping out' in the context of painting?

[Wild Wassa]

When rolling paint, it can end up being an uneven thicknesses, if the roller is charged unevenly or it has too much paint on it. When 'tipping' we are using a brush to even out the thickness of the paint and remove blemishes (like air bubbles) and ridges in paint, called 'beads'.

Tipping out is almost unavoidable when looking for a quality job when using a roller.

A fair bit of the painting with polyurethane that I do, is pouring the paint straight on to what I'm painting (especially foils) and spreading it evenly with blades ... this style of tipping-out is similar to the technique called French Lacquering or Japanese Lacquering. I start tipping out the moment I tip a can of paint on to anything. This is what I'm doing this afternoon. I'll take some shots of advanced tipping out in polyurethane.

One drama with polyurethane is that it skins too quickly to tip out.

Warren.

[Pierce Nichols]

Thank you for the enlightenment. :)

[JimJ]

I used brightsides on "Sea Lark" Bought a Purdy brush which I keep hidden.

I found that you have to use International Brushing Thinners #6.

Here is the finish I obtained using Brightsides with #6 thinner

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid222/pb0b2db5753892db516f867a2a2c68b45/eb23c6aa.jpg

This is the port side of the hull painted with Brightsides and #1 thinners. There are three top coats.

http://users.bigpond.com/aeroservice/100_1013T.JPG

A good brush, the correct thinners, thin coats worked well and lightly tipped will give a great finish.

JimJ

[pcford]

You've had some excellent advice. One thing I would add is that novice painters put on paint too thick.

Try to put on skimpy coats at first. A holiday is always better than a run. Because they put one thin coats, it might be better to start with foam brushes. But as Lew suggests, change to a quality brush as soon as you can.

[lofting4fun]

Ok, I'm going to sound like a total n00b, but what exactly do you mean by 'tipping out' in the context of painting?

When tipping barely put any pressure on the paint with the brush and LIGHTLY stroke in the same direction each coat..one stroke.slightly overlapp each stroke back into the wet line,roll next in the front.use a different direction after lightley sanding when dry.(lightley and quickly scuffing with the green scotch pad works perfect ) and as posted above you are just trying to knock down/blend hi low spots and remove air bubbles....light pressure with the brush,have another handy if the first loads up with paint,and keep it moving

you should really thin the first coat of primer and each coat a little thicker, ( I do three coats ) then do the same with your paint.,,I do three coats of paint, wait a season ,repair any bleeds ect and proceede with the final three coats

g/luck

[Wild Wassa]

I like spreading polyurethane paint with blades when I'm doing custom jobs, like constructing racing surfaces on foils and hulls. It gives me as high a quality as I can do. The surface becomes almost perfectly smooth from the first thin coat. The start of the painting of the foil, yesterday.

Running the bead ... the second coat.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Runningthebead3.jpg


I watched a painter spreading polyurethane paint with a blade in a surfboard factory in Wollongong about 7 years ago ... and I can't actually remember the last time I picked up a brush to paint a racing surface in waterbased polyurethane. I use a roller and a fine brush when I'm painting any non racing surface, like decks and stormboards and handrails and tillers and inside cabins.

I painted my Coachwood ply dinghy hull using a blade, that was a few years ago ... and I haven't put the blade down since for doing custom jobs. With oil based paints I still use a fine brush. With Perfection 2 pack polyurethane, I use a roller.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid172/pe216c7bd9459114b72c1d8e07ebbf305/f3c084e8.jpg


Warren.

[drift montana]

Good advice above. I really like the Brightside paint and have had great results on 2 river dories. Thinning is the key! I thin about 10% to start with the appropriate Interlux thinner. The thinner evaporates pretty quickly, so only mix up enough to work for about 20 minutes. I roll on with a good foam roller, one of the small ones, then tip out with a Jens foam brush. They are cheap in bulk and when they start to get overly loaded, just grab a new brush for tipping. I also have got in the habit of keeping a lint free cloth at hand and use the thinner to whipe the next area to be painted (about 1-1.5 ft in width). I find this really helps the paint tip out nicely and self-level. It virtually eliminates your brush 'grabbing' as the paint gets tacky.

I also find this works well with varnish, thin, and whipe ahead. You can get great results! Good luck!

-Tony

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/tonythatcher/Boat2_180.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/tonythatcher/Boat2_195.jpg

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I think Warren is a cyber painter. His finishes don't really exist. I tell myself this to feel better. :D

[calvin]

Great job on the drift boat paint job! I am getting ready to start the paint on the sides of my 62 Grady White project...all the fairing and priming is done..which paint on the market today is considered good to work with ;brush and roll method and stands up fairly well.

[Wild Wassa]

"His finishes don't really exist." - Peter.

Well Super Skipper, you are exactly right ... in every way.

My constructed surfaces don't exist ... they don't exist because if you can see what I've done, what I've painted, then I haven't done it.

When I was going to tech, I had two craftsmen teachers, Mr Peter West at the Tech, and my Master who I spent several years with, Mr Ralph Weston.

The first day I did a job with Ralph, I asked him, "Mr Weston is this good enough?" He said to me, "Warren if you ever have to ask is this good enough, don't."

Mr West told the class on the first day that we were at tech, there was 65 in the class then, only 6 of us graduated after the 4th year, "The hardest thing you will ever paint is a curved surface. If you can see the paint then you have failed. Painting is about looking into the depth of the paint, and only seeing the chroma (the depth and intensity of the colour) of the paint. Seeing the modelling (the play of light on an object) enhances the 3rd dimension of the object. That is what painting is about."

No two happenings have had more impact on me being a painter.

Painting boats is about what light does to the surface and how slippery a wet working surface can be made ... if it isn't meant to be slippery, then how grippy do I need to make it, without seeing what I've done.

Warren.

[Wild Wassa]

Grey Duck, I was hoping to see shots of a freshly painted boat Skipper ... I hope your painting is going well, you have sanded back the first coat and the thinning of the paint for the next coat is sorted out.

I'm going to cut and polish the foil this morning. It is raining here. There is nothing like standing in summer rain to start finishing paint with wet and dry ... before the cut and polish.

My small "painting trouble' always revolves around not having an unlimited supply of water to start the finishing of paint with ... when it rains it is an absolute gift. It doesn't rain often here.

I'm looking forward to polishing the foil today. I'll post some shots later in the day with beading rain drops on it hopefully. Sheeting water isn't good that is only a wet and dry quality finish ... beading water on paint is perfect for a racing surface.

Warren.

[Wild Wassa]

It is still raining, the continual rain has made cutting the foil today ... first class and enjoyable.

Grey Duck, all of the crap surface was sanded down to just above the weave and refaired with glass macros in epoxy. Of which you are probably now, well skilled in this remedial technique?


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Slumping-1.jpg


The new coats were cut back with #800, #1000 and finally #1200 wet and dry, untill the surface was as uniform and ripple free as possible. The edges and foot of the foil are still to be done in the photo. The foil is wet, so that I can look for any missed ridges, dags and problemos. Once the light pole looks straight in the foil, I know I'm close to being fair. The reflection of the light pole has been a real aid to shaping foils. I remember several years ago when the foils looked shiny but the pole was always ... s-s-s-s-stuttering.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Endofthecut.jpg


I check the quality of the cut with the Farecla G3 frequently, by wetting down the surface and looking for tight small beads. There is a while to go yet before the beads get small, tight and uniform in their size and their uniform location on the foil's surface in the photo below.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Startofthebuff.jpg


When you paint a boat in polyurethane that is only half the potential of the paint ... it is what you do to it afterwards that shows how special the material actually is. The photo above is a colour photograph. The black dot in each bead of water is the reflection of the black ceiling in my paintery at home. The black ceiling doesn't cause flair and helps to make painting curved surfaces easier to do than in an overly lit studio. It allows me to see each blemish.

Anyway, I'm going to go and make these beads much smaller now. If the paint was a month old and well cured I'd have the quality already ... but I only painted both top coat surfaces yesterday. Polyurethane is an amazing material.

Warren.

[calvin]

Wonderful tips and tricks guys..I must also admit to being a poly paint amatureit takes a lot of practice and the learnig curve is steep...what are the options in todays paint world...

[gray duck]

Warren, you are amazing, dude!!! Thanks for sharing. This website doesn't have the kneelling man - we're not worthy - icon. lol

[C. Ross]

Running the bead ... the second coat.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Runningthebead3.jpg

Warren.

Terrific stuff Warren. Silly question - when you paint with a blade, what do you do when you run to the edge of the piece? Tip off with a brush?

Cris

[Duncan Gibbs]

Excellent work Warren! http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon14.gif

Just a quick question: Have you used AquaCote from BoatCraft? And give us a tingle sometime too mate!! Think I've gotta build a trolley for the Mirror to be up-turned on: Quick exit and re-entry into the garage due to this bloody rain!

[Wild Wassa]

Thankyou for the comments.

Cris, I usually sweep the paint off with the blade, back into the cup that I poured it out of. I then pour the leftover paint back into the paint can. 4 hours after adding the cross linker the two pack poly Aquacote will not catalyze, so it can be poured back into the can. I filter all paint, so any dust that is picked up then is no problemo when painting next time

I don't tip off using a brush, I use my finger if I need to tip off at all, it is quicker using a finger. Finger painting is how all kids learn to paint ... I guess I haven't lost that pre-school touch.

This paint skins very quickly within a matter of seconds, there no time to grab a brush to tip off the beads. If I make a mistake I'll wipe the surface with a damp rag as quickly as possible and start again. I attend to all drips instantly.

Duncan, Aquacote from BoatCraft Pacific is my standard poison. The Mirror on your Mirror thread, I painted in Aquacote. It is essential that Aquacote is filtered through a fine micron paint strainer. It becomes a totally different product when it is. I always thin the Aquacote boat paint and Aquacote Clear to maximum water by volume. I paint or spread it on very thinly ... many thin coats, which normally is about 5-6 coats. I only use epoxy or CPES as the the primer for the Aquacote paint when the surface isn't perfect. When using CPES as the primer, I allow at least 4 days before painting to allow the solvents to dissipate from the CPES.

When using Aquacote Clear, I paint it straight onto well dressed timber without using a primer if I haven't had aneed to preserve the timber ... again 5 coats, I find best. The Clear material is well worth trying out. Use it quickly, don't store it, buy only small quantities of Aquacote so that you only use fresh paint when you need to and again, filter it before use and you will not be disappointed. If using a brush a fine Taclon brush is just superb with the paint.

I painted the exterior timber of our home in unprimed Aquacote Clear several years ago and it is very disappointing that it still doesn't even need a touchup. I didn't cut and polish the Aquacote clear on our home ... but I do on all racing surfaces. Both the Aquacote clear and the Aquacote paint cut and polish equally well.

The thing that I like about Aquacote is that I can put a coat on each half hour if needed. Some times only 5 minutes between each coats. I can get a lot of painting done very quickly using a 2 pack water based polyurethane.

The hardest thing I find about using Aquacote is resisting showing more of the photos of the boats that I paint.

Warren.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Great information there mate! Couple more questions:

What do you use for a primer if preservation is required under clear?

and

What do you think of Norglas's Northane and Weatherfast products?

Oh... and feel free to post as MANY happy schnaps as you could bother with Warren! :D:D

[C. Ross]

The hardest thing I find about using Aquacote is resisting showing more of the photos of the boats that I paint.

Warren.

By all means, don't resist. More photos please.

[Wild Wassa]

I'm sorry to do this but I'm leaving to go to Melbourne now.

Duncan, if you care to have a look at your "Sailing withy Skuthorp" thread on people and places. It explains why.

I use both Smith and Co's CPES and BoatCraft Pacific's TPRDA for timber preservation. TPRDA is 'Timber Preservative and Reactive Diluting Agent' for adding to normal epoxy and an excellent thinner and CPES is a thin epoxy wood preserver and multiprimer and excellent to use.

I'll be back later next week and Chris I'll sort out some shots then. With the closure of Image Station, I'm having to repost to Shutterbox. When I'm back I'll send you a note.

Have a good week of painting. Remember it is 98% prep and 2% painting.

Have a good week Skippers.

Warren.

[Wild Wassa]

Duncan, Aquacote Clear on Aussie Red. Without primer, several thin coats. I've stopped using primers on timber with Aquacote if the timber is sound and I can paint the Aquacote straight on to the timber.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/AussieRed.jpg


... and Deks Olje #1 on Huon Pine. Deks is an excellent option for a matte or a satin finish. Deks Olje #2 gives an extremely high gloss finish. Don't just paint Deks on and go sailing. Allow Deks to harden well before before using it.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/HuonPine.jpg


I like the clarity that both Aquacote and Deks Olje give to timber over using products like Norglass Weatherfast Marine Varnish. Deks #1 isn't a 'clear coat', it is between a clear and a varnish and you can balance the gloss levels of Deks by blending #1 with #2 ... once blended the Decks Olje does not store, it sets quickly.

Warren.

[Banjo]

Hey Wassa,
Love your work mate.

You make it sound so easy to get a professional finish.
The BCP clear coat, is it tough enough for floors and bench tops?

Oh! Next time your going to Melbourne gimme a shout mate.
Will make sure I have some coldies on standby and a couple of T bones for the BBQ. :D You can email me from the link on the front page my website, see my sig below.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Bumpity Bump!

Go on Warren! Keep posting those pictures! WB should get you to do an article!!

[Wild Wassa]

Duncan, here is a past thread to go on with, until I can spend time on the Forum. I'm trying to get several boats ready to haul to the Eden Regatta leaving on Thursday. I haven't forgotten this thread I've been overwhelmed with fixing collisions at the moment and doing other repairs.

You might not have seen this thread.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=61172

It is only a matter of time before Image Station is shut down for good ... and these pictures will no longer appear.

Cheers Mate.

Warren.

[Duncan Gibbs]

You might not have seen this thread.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=61172

It is only a matter of time before Image Station is shut down for good ... and these pictures will no longer appear.

Gone already! Just the last one from photobucket... Oh well! I'll just have to read it and gleen some technical information. BTW I've had two rotten months for billing and weather. Hopefully in three weeks I'll have more cash and more sunshine and get stuck into the Mighty Pippin! You need some of our wet stuff mate!?!

[Wild Wassa]

These aren't my paint jobs.

Both Sabre dinghies are skinned in 2 pack polyurethane. These finely made kit-built dinghies were on the beach of Snug Cove, in Quarantine Bay (one of the folds of Twofold Bay) on the New South Wales South Coast, last weekend. I talked to their builder, he showed me all of the problems ... but none of the issues were about paint sadly. I'm not really into boats, I'm into paint.

Here in Oz professional painters have embraced 2 pack polyurethane almost exclusively for the fine finishing of racing surfaces. I think Australians are finally wiseing up.

The 'three toned' light cadmium green hull was finished with 5 coats of clear 2 pack polyurethane, the visual depth of the paint is extraordinary. I'm sorry that my photography doesn't do the painter justice. Any blemish that can be seen on both boats is from salt, not a blemish found in the paint.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Eden2.jpg



http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Eden4.jpg

Warren.

[gray duck]

warren - you're making it harder and harder for me to post my final painting result. lol

[Duncan Gibbs]

The Sabre is another project on my wish list: They look like a heap of fun to sail. Can get up to 20knots I here tell!!!??? Warren?

[Wild Wassa]

Grey Duck, it is a hard school Mate but always show your work. I find displaying what I have done, is a very strong driving element for quality.

I was thinking tonight of some oil paintings that I have done on canvas and I was looking at three canvases hanging in the entrance way of our home and remembered how long they took me to paint as perfectly uniform as possible, with dozens of transparent layers of paint until I achieved what I visualized as one apparent simple coat of paint.

The architect Richard Lepasitier said, "Artists are magicians." Where as I think a painter is an illusionist, creating illusions on (no matter) what they paint. I'm of the opinion if you can see what I've done then I haven't done it ... all I've done is paint without an illusion.

Duncan, I have know idea what boat speed the Sabre is capable of doing. Sabres are not considered performance dinghies. So I'm guesing that only 6 or 7 knots would be the absolute max for the Sabre in optimum conditions, unless one was surfing. Then 12 knots might be possible thanks to gravity ... if falling off a wave.

A Sabre has a VYC reliable yardstick of 127 which is close to a Laser 4.7 which is VYC 126. Not the fastest of dinghies going around.

The old plywood Gwen 12's were capable of doing 21+ knots and an International 14 (VYC yardstick 86) has been timed doing 28 knots ... not bad boat speeds for little dinghies.

Warren.

[Duncan Gibbs]

My mistake! They can still do their thing in 20Knots +...

Nice boats! Still look like lots of fun to sail!
Barry Eastgate at Black Rock 20 knots plus (http://www.sabre.org.au/MorePhotos.html)
http://www.sabre.org.au/images/1611Run2.jpg

http://www.sabre.org.au/images/1275-7-800p.JPG

[calvin]

Has anyone tried paints by Fine Paints of Europe...Hollandlac marine paints and varnish..attended a paint show and these seemed impressive?

[gray duck]

well here's one pic of the bow - sorry for flash in garage but will post a final one when in the sunshine. am going to post progress report in new thread.
http://i29.tinypic.com/30aayag.jpg

[Duncan Gibbs]

Looking great GD! Hope I can achieve the same on my Mirror... A "mirror finish" ya might say!! :D

[Wild Wassa]

Congratulations Grey Duck.

She looks like a fine boat, well prepared and her finished shows it. Good to see Mate.

Warren.

[pipefitter]

Nice to see it worked out for you grey duck.

Great display there Wassa. How long do you think it would take you to break in another blade like that one if it were to disappear?

[Wild Wassa]

Pipefitter as long as it takes to sand the edge, about 12 seconds. I wet and dry a blade's edge every time that I use one.

I'm painting a keel on a Micro Tonner in a 2 pack poly at the moment that I've restored the hull and the keel of. It has been a relatively easy job as the hull was well cared for, but the keel had not been seen by the owner in over a decade. I'll take some shots this morning. I'm finishing the keel and the hull is almost done ... all done with the trusty blade.

I tried using an expensive professional quality "natural bristle" brush yesterday. The guy in the paint store said it was "natural bristle" and the best brush that they had. I bought the brush for the shape to do some tight overhead stuff ... it was like using a stone aged tool. Talk about an inadequate tool for daubing paint. I've slapped paint on with road kill that was smoother. The "natural bristle" was total rubbish compared to the ultra fine synthetic monofilaments that I use. Using what I bought yesterday, was having a reservoir for creating painting troubles. It was perfect for watching paint not drawing uniformly from the brush and for painting tramlines it could not be surpassed.

The '"natural bristle", I dared not ask the shop assistant what type of "Natural bristle" it was that I was buying, just in case it was a rare and endangered species of pig.

Who killed off all the Sables? Now there was a rodent worth plucking a "natural bristle" from.

Warren.

[pipefitter]

The thing I always noticed with natural brushes is that they took awhile to become good brushes. The best brush I own is an old Purdy that I used for a broom. It has developed split ends which cuts the filament size in half or so. The working tip leaves no brush texture. I only use natural bristle for alkyd paints and again it is dependent on the correct thinner which happened to be a house mix of spirits, naptha and kerosene.
On the light blue on my hull, it was a mix of off white and a darker blue. The blue pigments float in solvent and the white settles. But with the two mixed together, it created a suspension quality that added serious depth to the color that almost glows. The solvent used to clean the brushes, the white would settle to the bottom, allowing the clean solvent to be poured off and used again whereas the blue solvent remained tinted blue. The only downside to such a system was having to keep the paint well mixed. It reminded me of painting metal flake in a way to where you see more obvious metal flake or less depending on the application.

[pcford]

In response to the original poster who said he was troubled by sags:

Try a foam brush. They are clearly inferior to bristle brushes, but it is harder to put on too much material. One can do a half-way decent job with them...for the rank amateur they may be better. But do learn to use a real brush!

Also, remember the material must be distributed evenly. A sag can occur when there is _too little_ material under an area with more.

[Wild Wassa]

This Micro Tonner 550 was sold before I finished the restoration and there is no need now to cut and polish the new flowcoat or to cut and polish the Norglass Shipshape 2 pack polyurethane which is still soft on both the hull and the keel. Not cutting and polishing my work is a tad disappointing ... I'll have a chat to the new owner just in case he wants the full deal paint finish. I finished painting the 550 this morning.

Painting trouble on this job, ... is not cutting and polishing the paint to get the best finish out of it. This is the first time that I have used Norglass Shipshape so I'm not aware of what the paint is actually capable of realizing as a racing surface.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/MicroTonner550.jpg


Warren.