Stupid books about building boats

[Mrleft8]

My wonderful, sweet, lovely wife got me "How to build a Catspaw dinghy" for Christmas. She also got me the lines plans.
The book is really; "How Joel White built the Catspaw dinghy 30 years ago, with molds from a previous job" The text is useless. The photographs are less than useless. The good thing is the book was inexpensive. The bad thing is that the plans refer to the book, and the book refers to the plans.
After I finish muddling through this quagmire of crap I'm going to rewrite the book with updated photo's and instructions. I'm going to titke it.... "How to really build a Catspaw dinghy". :mad:

[Dave Fleming]

I'm going to titke it.... "How to really build a Catspaw dinghy". You do that and make sure you are good and angry when you write that ***titke*** for it too!

:D tongue.gif :D tongue.gif

So did ya take back your gift/s to your dear wife?
Ya meanie ya. :rolleyes: :D

[Mrleft8]

T I T L E...... Title! TITLE!
SHUP DAVE! :D

[Dave Fleming]

:D tongue.gif :D ;)

[Mrleft8]

Kinda looks like it should be pronounced "Tit Lee" When ya spell it enough times in a row doesn't it.....?
Yer such a pain in the ass Dave.... No wonder Brita always hopes yer the Flemming..... :D

[Dave Fleming]

Ayup, they still confuse the two of us, sigh.
But he is in Arizona(?), whilst we are in 'insane Diego' and we spell it FLEMING vs. FLEMMING.

Oh well, lets see if we get a Christmas card from them this year?

[Mrleft8]

Christmas card? All I ever get is a phone call saying "When you gonna send me more of that spalted maple you promised me!?"

[Dave Fleming]

HA, and some say ***his*** mind is slipping!
He remembers, heh heh heh. :D :D

[Bayboat]

Mrleft8, you have a right to your opinion, but My Goodness! This is the first time I've heard of someone reacting so adversely to the Catspaw book and plans, although many of these fine boats have been built by amateurs. I gather you haven't actually started using them. What is your basis of comparison? A member of our boatbuilding class is just about finished building a Catspaw, with the help of myself and other instructors. As with almost any set of books/plans there are a few things the builder has to figure out for himself, but we didn't find any discrepancies that would warrant such vitriol. It would be helpful if you gave us some specific examples.

[abe]

As with almost any set of books/plans there are a few things the builder has to figure out for himself, but we didn't find any discrepancies that would warrant such vitriol. It would be helpful if you gave us some specific examples.
Yes, some examples please as I am planning to build the Catspaw. I can give you 100 reasons why the book is useful to me.

[Mrleft8]

First of all, I don't intend to ruffle feathers.
Bayboat.... You say that your student is about to finish a "catspaw" w/ the help of you and other instructors. That's fine and great, and dandy. Could he/she do it w/o the help of you and other instructors, just by reading the book, and the plans? If we all had seasoned professionals over our shoulders we could all build just about anything.
My point is, that a book called "How to build a catspaw dinghy" should be just that.... a "How to...."
Page 12 (first page of text after lines)
"Because this is the second boat Joel has built to this design, it was not necessary to construct new molds. {for those interested in mold making and other preliminaries, WOODEN BOAT No.s 11 and 12 have articles on lofting, and there is an article in no. 13 on making molds).....
Well...... That's just stupid... What if I got this book out of the library? Wooden boat 11,12,and 13 are not available anymore.... except as dingy xerox copies.... Why not add the text from those articles as part of the book?....seems obvious to me.....
That's just the first problem.... The photograghs are a grainy b/w. I've seen better xeroxes actually....
Page 14 caption 10: "the keel is sawn to shape"..... Nice picture of 2 guys holdind a half cut board on a table saw.... No information is given in the picture.... Why print it?
Pages 14-15 (side bar) "Building the transome"
All we got here is a picture of a guy in overalls using a table saw, and glueing up some boards....
I could go on, and on, and on..... But, I think you get my idea....
This is NOT a "how to", it's a "How did"....

[ken mcclure]

:D

I have yet to find a "How-To" book on anything that told me everything I think it should have.

I have the same book, but figured I'd build a model from the book first and see how it went. Many of the questions can be worked through in small scale much more easily.

Tsk-tsk... Be careful. If you grouse too much, Santa may not bring you any more boat books.

[ 12-31-2002, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: ken mcclure ]

[Jack C]

Tsk. Tsk. Indeed. It's a poor carpenter that blames his/her tools. You should have figured out by now that all you really need to build a boat is a whisp of an idea, a hint of a curve. Did Capt. Nat design boats using offsets, diagonals, etc.? Nope, just whittled out a half-mold by the light of the evening fire.

Sure hope I don't need to say more, sonny.

Jack

[Mrleft8]

Am I blaming anyone for anything here, other than producing a book with a misleading title? I have absolutely no doubt that I will be able to build a Catspaw dinghy, I just won't be following the book too much.
My point was not that I thought it should be a "step by step" set of instructions, so much as I think it should either be re-titled, or re-worked so that it fits it's current title. And I think that the book needs photographs that are more illustrative. Would it be really hard to either "digitally' enhance the current photo's?(I don't know)Would it be so hard to re-shoot photo's for a new edition of the book, using more modern equipment?
AH..... But I digress.....
Who's "Sonny"?

[ken mcclure]

:D Guy who skiied into a tree?

Tell him you prefer "MISTER" sonny if he doesn't mind.

For people who are "written-directions-challenged" like me, no amount of pictures/instructions will ever be enough. I just HAVE to do it wrong myself before I can see how to do it right.

Made my initiation to complete manhood a memorable experience.

[Hughman]

Originally posted by Jack C:
Tsk. Tsk. Indeed. It's a poor carpenter that blames his/her tools. You should have figured out by now that all you really need to build a boat is a whisp of an idea, a hint of a curve. Did Capt. Nat design boats using offsets, diagonals, etc.? Nope, just whittled out a half-mold by the light of the evening fire.

Sure hope I don't need to say more, sonny.

JackHeh. Has a style like Cleek. nice webpage, too. :D

[Bayboat]

Mrleft8: You are certainly right about the quality of the reproduced photographs. I suspect that first-class prints on glossy paper would have boosted the price inordinately. Also, like you I was put off by the start after the molds were already made. Many a beginner would be lost right at the start unless he had access to other literature. But reference to other treatises on mold-making is not enough for the uninitiated. On the other hand, the plans have drawings from which patterns can be made. As I said before, we had no particular difficulties with the book or plans, but then we were not looking at them from the viewpoint of a non-professional.

[Bob Cleek]

One proven rule of thumb for boatbuilding books is that any book which has "boat" and "building" in it's title, together with "backyard," "amateur" or "how to" is best left on the shelf at Borders. LOL My impression of these "How to Build..." books is that they are helpful and interesting to those who already know how to build a boat, since they offer some insights into how the designer or author solved the unique problems encountered in building that particular design. Then again, a comprehensive step by step book on "how to build a boat" is really a major undertaking, if the author assumes the reader doesn't know a bunch to begin with. I'd say the only one to come close is Larry Pardey's "Classic Yacht Construction, The Hull," which still omits a lot along the way. Bottom line, your money is better spent on the classics, like Chapelle, Gardner, Stewart, McIntosh and Rossel (the best for your Catspaw, in my book). If you master what's in these books, all you will need to build your Catspaw, or anything else for that matter, is a table of offsets!

[rbgarr]

I agree about Pardey's book and even it was specific to a particular type of construction (sawn frame)and boat (30+' keel-sailboat). It's a very valuable book for giving a feel for how long building can take, however.

Rossel's book gets my vote for small craft.

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Has anyone seen John Brooks' new Lapstrake book yet? Is it available?
Steven

[NormMessinger]

And besides, Mrleft most, much, a lot, of the fun of it is collecting all the books you'll need, should, want, to refer to.

--Norm

[ThomNC]

What Norm said, although I've been having the same kinds of problems with the New Testament.

Thom

[Mrleft8]

I've never seen "The new testament"....Is she a sloop?
But seriously.... :D It is (once again) not so much that I was expecting to be able to open a book, and be able to build the boat, as much as it is that I'm dissappointed in the quality of the book. If you're going to write a book about something, the first paragragh shouldn't say, in essence.... "to understand the first paragraph of this book, read some old out of print magazines". The text of the "old out of print magazines" should be included in the text....
And on that note, I will tell you all that I hope to start building the strongback next week.....( If I finish the stereo cabt. I was supposed to have finished by Christmas done by then..... :D )

[Mrleft8]

What?! No more info, or help?.... Come on guys! I see posts with less merit, or potential for argument than this one getting 2-3.....even 5 pages of comment!

[Sam F]

Mrleft8,
A small comment from one who has neither built the boat nor read the book..
but is perhaps appropriate to most DIY books. It is very difficult to write such a thing that will satisfy everyone. I once had to write an instruction manual for an accounting software program. The original may as well have been written in archaic Minoan for all it was worth to a beginner.
The assumption was that a newbie with no experience would be able to use the new manual and get the job done. One of the things I did was to write down every single keystroke in the correct sequence. If followed exactly, you couldn't go wrong. It worked but you know what? It was so deadly boring that few could stand to use it! :D
That is one problem with all DYI books. If you assume the reader knows absolutely nothing, the result will be instant anesthesia. In this case, it looks as if too much knowledge is taken for granted. Maybe it's a chance for you to write your own construction manual. If it turns out well, perhaps you can offer it as an appendix to the publishers?
The advice about building a model first is worthwhile. I did so on my future project and found a serious error in the construction drawings. I made copious (boring) notes so that when I get around to building the actual boat, I won't have to figure it out all over again.

[Ross Faneuf]

Oh, well, comment; all right, then.

I pretty much agree with hizzoner Cleek; there's pretty much no book that will really lead you through everything you need to do to build a boat if you know nothing. Well, Dynamite Payson is pretty good, come to think of it. I don't know the Catspaw book, but it sounds like a not-so-good book. And Rossel's book is really useful.

My own feeling is that if I buy (or borrow) a book which teaches me just one thing, or helps me figure out just one little detail, then it's paid for itself. Very few books in this class cost more than a ruined 1/4 sheet of 1/2" marine fir ply; at that rate, almost any book can be useful.

My own list: Vaitses on Lofting was REALLY useful. Bud Macintosh's book has a few details that are great, particularly since Sam Manning's drawings are the clearest illustrations of boat details imaginable. The Gougeon Bros. remains an excellent introduction to googe. Bingham's book has useful sections. I have maybe 40-50 books on boat construction and related areas, and just about all of them have had their moments.

None of these books is a bible; most of them have chapters I've barely skimmed (no way I'm going through yet ANOTHER introduction to the tools a boatbuilder needs and how to use them). But each has had great bits. And saved me either money, time, or egregious error.

[JimConlin]

Doesn't the New Testament begin with the Book of Gougeon?

[Mrleft8]

There are no DYI books that actually let you "DYI" in other words! Understood, documented, recorded, and saved for posterity! (Except perhaps the original "Complete idiots guide to Volkswagon repair")
I would of course need to be able to write a concise, expository essay in order to attempt to create an appendix for the "Build a catspaw dinghy" book, and I barely passed my english writing requirement at college.
Insurmountable challenges have never stopped me before.... :D

[Paul Scheuer]

My 0.02. It's a right-brain , left-brain thing. Writers don't build, builders don't write. The best I've seen are co-written manuals.

[TomHaven12]

Technology comes to the aid of the "How to Build..." book in the case of the Haven 12-1/2 in the form of a Web Site, www.HavenBuilders.com (http://www.HavenBuilders.com) .
Here builders share experiences and document variations from the plans and the book:
http://www.kerchevalave.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000040.html
Current photos submitted by builders show construction shortcuts and techniques. A Forum, such as this one, provide an opportunity for questions to be asked of those who have "been there, done that." Maybe the Catspaw need a Web Site!

[NormMessinger]

It was the "copyright for boat hulls thread," Bruce. Not exactly about offsets, as such.

--Norm

[ 01-04-2003, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[Mrleft8]

HUH?

[Charles Neuman]

Steven wrote:
>Has anyone seen John Brooks' new Lapstrake book yet? Is it available?

I asked the WB bookstore about it. I was told it will be delayed a little more. I asked for a table of contents, but they said they aren't ready to provide that since it might change. They are predicting around April for the book to come out.

Charles