Replacing Keel bolts on a 1936 Alden

[Captain Connor]

I have bought a 1936 Alden yawl, 36 feet long. It definitely needs new keelbolts installed, and possibly repair work done to the keelson.

Has anyone done work like this on a similiar boat? Do you have any advice?

Would it be smart to dig a trench where the boat is going to go in order to drop the bolts down before the boat gets there?

I will keep my project updated and be asking more questions as it happens (this project probably wont start until this summer).

Are there any other preparations I should make now before I begin working on her?


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if these pictures dont show up, please go to

http://aldenyawl.blogspot.com to see some pictures.

thanks!

Connor

[adampet]

Looks like you have your work cut out. I'm sure people more familiar with Alden's will chime in.

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Adam

[Thad]

Best way for you would be to get the weight of the boat off the ballast and work all the sawzall blades you can find between the ballast and the keel to cut the bolts. It would be good first to lift the whole boat enough so you can then lower the ballast and move it away from the keel in order to remove the remains from the ballast and the keel. The keel probably needs replacing from iron sickness and the same may be true of the stern post, stern knee, stem, and gripe, as well as floors and frame heels. To access the keel you will need to remove the garboards and this will allow you to begin inspecting all these parts. Alden designs tend to sail beautifully and reward the restorer.

[Noah]

Hey, I know that boat!

Got plenty of work to do I would think. She's cold molded and looks like she has a pretty ugly keel - always seemed to seep down there. Best method I found was to pull the keel bolts up through the keel with a jack a piece of angle iron and using the other floor as a fulcrum point. Feel free to PM me with more questions. I would be happy to drive over to the shipyard and talk about the best way to get her going again. I know you have plenty of work ahead - but I have had a few of those boats in my past as well.

Be sure to take into account everything that needs doing - doing pick the easy things first - do it right the first time.

[Captain Connor]

Yes, I am well aware of the work I have for me. The boat was surveyed and some floors do need to be replaced, but that, as well as everything besides the keel doesnt bother me.

Since the boat is cold molded, will I be able to remove the garboard plank?

[Thad]

Probably isn't one to replace. You could just cut out a lower section and later laminate or replace with planks, but with non-traditional construction I don't know what you have in there for structure. Good luck! Have fun!!

[Concordia...41]

See also: ;)

Removing ballast keel: http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/proj8.html

Removing keel bolts: http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/proj10.html

Miscellaneous fun: http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/projects.html

BTW - the website hasn't been updated in 4+ years. Things are a little different now :)

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cf24b3127ccebfa22eadbcf500000026108BYtG7lsxbq

Good luck with your work Capt'n. It looks like you've got a good understanding of what's ahead of you, good local help, and good advice here.

- M

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I'd best not get started on the strange American way with keel bolts...I've said enough in the past.

Why y'all don't do as others do - knock one out for a look every ten years, and, if it's wasted more than 10%, replace the lot, before they get badly necked and hard to drive, I just don't know!

If they are sizeable enough I would certainly start by getting the nuts off (with a cold chisel - they ain't going back!) and driving the bolt down and out with a seriously big hammer - it probably has an upset head in the ballast keel.

[Lawrie]

Connor,

While Thad is probably right to suggest digging in, cutting garboard, and more - I would recommend investigating first:
-remove keel bolts as Noah suggests, or I have had good luck driving them down from above and cutting off when they hit ground, then continue driving (I use a ~3" high collar x bolt dia. on top of the keel to ensure your driving rod stays on top of the hole) the keel bolts will tell a story.
-lift boat up ~8 " with jackstands (lots of them) and take a look.
>then you can think about how far you are going, how much the vessel is worth, how much time you have. You may decide it is better to stabilize what you have, protect from further degradation and go sailing for awhile - if Noah refers to the Shipyard, then maybe this vessel is on the lake here and you can live with a soft old girl rather than 200 miles offshore.

I would do this before tearing open garboards. You know you will find trouble of some sort in there, and may start in on that, and not go sailing for a long time.
If the floors are really gone as you say, then Thad is right, take the planks off.
try to stay away from miracle goos, use plain epoxy, roofing tar, things that can be taken apart when needed or if you make a mistake. Cheers, Lawrie (1947 Casey Yawl)

[Paul Stohlman]

Many Alden designs had bolts that tie the ballast to the keel, and separate bolts that tie the floors to the keel.

The only way to replace them all is to remove the ballast keel (the floor/keel bolts are buried).

You can inspect the floor/keel bolts by turning them with a wrench...if the nut turns with the bolt...its gone. You may be able to x-ray them also.

The ballast/keel bolts are best inspected by removing. (Pick the one with the most rust bleeding at the ballast/keel joint.

[Thad]

I'd still suggest cutting the ballast off. Rust is bigger than iron and bolts tend to become thin within a shell of rust at the interface with the bolt rusted into the ballast. Driving can wedge the top past the bottom. To draw the bolt out is good if it works, but is a lot easier if you are working free of the boat with the hardest part (in the ballast). Some fun whatever you do.

[StevenBauer]

Cold molded boat built in 1936? Did they have a time travel machine?


Steven

[Noah]

It was coldmolded 15 years ago or so - there was an article about the job in Wooden Boat. There may be some answers there about what it looks like under the skin.

[StevenBauer]

i'll have to dig out the article. They cold-molded right over the existing planking? Did they refasten first?


Steven

[Noah]

I haven't read the article so I don't really know what they did to her. Being a local boat I always kept an eye on her though. Her hull was renovated with a West System cold molded sheath of fir in 1982. That work was documented in WoodenBoat #52. When they cold molded her they used aluminum staples. These formed aluminum oxide "pimples" that come through to the surface. It's too bad they didn't spend the extra $10 and use monel.

[Captain Connor]

Are new keel bolts inserted from the bottom of the boat or from the top and inside the boat?

Generally, are they threaded on both ends? How exactly are they secured to the ballast keel and the wooden keel?

Thanks,

Connor

[Nordicthug]

In a repair each bolt is an individual problem and has a solution of its own. Drive them from wherever its easiest. I would thread both ends and run the nuts on from each end, tightening by turns. This will require protecting the threads on the driven end unless the bolt holes are carefully reamed clean. Bed very generously to avoid future problems. A ring of caulking cotton or candlewicking around the bolt under the washer will help hold the bedding in place and water at bay.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Gerry

[Jay Greer]

Gerry has given you good advise. I often withdraw from giving advise on jobs that require on site evaluation. Each bolt will tell you what you need and you will develope the needed aplication to the solution of your problem as the job progresses. Still, those of us who have been there and done that can offer solutions as your work goes on. By all means, keep in touch.
Jay

[Captain Connor]

I have decided it would be best to have the keelwork done professionally by Pease Boat Works in Chatham, MA. I do not doubt myself in doing the work, however, if I intend to take this boat offshore, I would sleep much better knowing that I hadn't created any room for mistakes.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this thread and reply. There is much more to be done on the boat, and I will keep the progress updated.

[adampet]

And let us know when she goes into Pease's. Some of us live close and would love an excuse to stop in and meet a new boat, and her owner:)

Adam

[redbopeep]

I have decided it would be best to have the keelwork done professionally by Pease Boat Works in Chatham, MA. I do not doubt myself in doing the work, however, if I intend to take this boat offshore, I would sleep much better knowing that I hadn't created any room for mistakes.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this thread and reply. There is much more to be done on the boat, and I will keep the progress updated.

We had woodboat professionals working with us on our schooner and they were very happy to have us, the owners, do the backbreaking work of removing keelbolts and putting in new ones. They preferred to work on making the new floors and other woodworking projects rather than the gruntwork of keelbolts. We felt somewhat confident that the pros would alert us to problems that might occur. We ended up being very happy with the division of labor.

It takes a lot more time/energy than prior experience to do this part of the job. If they've got an apprentice doing the job, great, if not, you may want to reconsider and just have a shipwright or at minimum a wood boat surveyor inspect and oversee your work.

In our case (29 ton 54' crocker schooner), wood floors on top wood keel on top lead keel, plus of course lots of deadwood in the stern area and just wood forekeel. There were several different methods--from drifts with/without clench rings for some of the floor-to-wood keel bolts to nuts on both ends for long bolts going through floors to lead keel. Most bolts removed out the top using jacks from underneath. Keel bolts ranged in size from 3/4" to 1" and 24" to 48" or so. Using bottle jacks, floor jacks, lever arms to push up with many tons of force was effective where there was room. Pounding not nearly as effective as leverage and a jack. We were taking galvanized and bronze keelbolts out of both wood and lead.

We'll be taking this boat offshore and are happy that we know every keelbolt intimately. If you have good pros to act as consultants you'll feel confident with the results but save money by doing this yourself. You may find that you'll do a more careful job simply because you've got the time to do so--those pros have to either push themselves and the project, perhaps working more sloppy than you would, OR they have to spend so many hours doing the work that it'll cost too much for the job. They're in between a rock and a hard place on heavy time consuming work like this.

Good luck with your entire project! If you decide to do it yourself, please feel free to contact us via email for moral support. Threading the larger diameter bronze rod (you will use steel with an iron keel?), doing the clench rings on the few drifts, plugging and redrilling a couple of the holes...breaking lots of tools, bottle jacks, etc...well, its heavy/hard work.