Hartley 21

[rohinmyson]

Hello all and Merry Christmas. I'm a newbie to the site and thought I'd throw a topic into the ring. I had finally received my plans for the Hartley 21. Was going to begin construction until my leg was placed in a very strange position it didn't like and now I have a broken tib and fib (lower r leg). Instead of 2 seperate bones, I now have six and will be spending the rest of the summer in a cast. So now I am relegated with just studying the plans and sourcing and pricing materials. So I thought I would do a bit more research and ask you guys for any and all advise (besides Don't build it, buy it) from those who have built their own vessels and especially from any other Hartley owners, past and present. One more question: centreboarder, single or bilge keeler? Thanks, Sam

[seanz]

Firstly, welcome to the forum.
Secondly, sympathies regarding the broken leg.
Thirdly, apologies that of all the experts on this forum you've got me.
:D
I own a Hartley TS18 that I purchased mere months ago so I'm not much of an expert on anything but at least this post will bump this thread back to the top of the list and someone will save you from me.
As to your question regarding which keel set-up, I've talked to people who have built their own Hartleys and it goes something like this;
Centerboard:No real vices except..........centerboard trunk.
Bilge keels:more room in cabin but less sailing performance.
Single/fixed keel:more room in cabin,better performance but it's not really a trailer sailer anymore.

[Yeadon]

Is this (http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?cart_id=48dd1ec253e125207d6e9c3690acc64c&type=item&categ=019&item=943115222) the boat?

[JimD]

Is this (http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?cart_id=48dd1ec253e125207d6e9c3690acc64c&type=item&categ=019&item=943115222) the boat?

Yes, but there's a lot more info at the Hartley website http://www.hartley-boats.com/21b.htmlor the Hartley Trailer Sailer website: http://www.trailer-sailer.com/

Centerboard trunk showing the board's 'handle' that JimJ mentions below:

http://www.hartley-boats.com/images/21g.jpg

[JimJ]

Sam

Welcome, sorry about the leg.

I have Sea Lark a TS18 which I have been restoring over the last few years. I would go with the centeboard version. I have seen two incarnations of the centerplate.

The version I have has the centreplate in the shape of a Parallelogram (http://www.mathsisfun.com/quadrilaterals.html) with a "handle" that is used to raise and lower the plate. The tackle for raising and lowering the board goes forward through two blocks leading back to a cleat in the cockpit. The tackle can restrict how you layout the area of the cabin forward of the centreboard case. The centreboard case is also open at the top. I have not had a problem with this design.

The second version does not have the "handle." The plate has a cable attached to the trailing edge and a small trailer winch is used to raise and lower the plate. There is no obstruction from tackle forward of the case. The top of the case can be completely sealed. You can also use a thicker plate and add ballast to the bottom of the plate. If a thicker plate and ballast is added, the inside of the centreboard case and slot through the keel has to be wider.

I sail on a mate's TS18 with this set-up. The bottom third of his plate is about 2" thick. It makes a stiffer boat.

To enable the removal of the centreplate easier , the cabin top on Sea Lark is slightly higher than standard. This allows the plate to be removed through the companionway. Otherwise, on the TS18, you have to roll the boat onto one side and remove the plate through the keel slot.

Have a look at post # 3 in thread http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=411&highlight=TS18

JimJ

[Banjo]

Hello Sam,
welcome and Happy New Year to you and your family.

Mate I know your plight well, I was all fired up and doing well on my project until I decided to verify if gravity still had any effect on me from 2.5m off the ground, it did! Result of test: Ankle reconstruction and lots of physio to get it moving again.

By now I would wager you are looking about the place for things long and thin to shove down your cast for a good ol scratching session on the leg :) hehehe, been there too when I was younger.

I hope you recover well and get that leg working again mate.

"Here's a rehab tip for you"
Once you can walk on it, go to the beach as often as you can and wade back and forwards along the beach in water up to your waist or chest.
The resistance on the leg builds the muscles back up and your buoyancy reduces weight on the leg. Two good sides are, you recover very quickly and you also get to see all the nice wildlife catching some sun on the beach :)

oh yeah... About the Hartley ?
My boat is not a Hartley but is very similar in many ways, she is slightly longer than the TS18, has similar under water lines but has older looking curvier topsides. The link in my sig will take you to my project along with a few others for you to look at.

The center board in mine is mostly under the bridge deck and cockpit floor, only about the first 3rd of the case projects into the cabin.
But even this is enough to make the cabin a little awkward in the companionway, the cabin is slightly bigger than a cuddy type but is not meant for extended living on the water so the design is aimed more at performance but still allows for some comforts.
To have bilge boards on my boat would mean they would be shorter and lighter which affect the boats righting moment considerably.

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/37657562.jpg

My kids have used their Hartley 14 hard now for several years and we really like the steel centerboard design. Simple, effective, and easy to get at.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59367496.jpg

Great little pocket cruiser.

[Chip-skiff]

I had a Hartley 14 and sailed on Lyttelton Harbour (NZ): lovely wee tub, quite stable and faster than she looked, but she leaked around the centreboard case. Couldn't find a fix short of tearing the whole thing apart. There was a Hartley 18 at the club with the same problem. So pay careful attention to that part of your boat. I wonder if the rigidity of the steel plate didn't cause the case to work more than it would with a flexible centreboard.

As far as the sort of keel, if you plan to keep it on a mooring or at a slip (i.e. in the water) a fixed keel might be good. The bilge keel type seems best if you're laying over on tidal flats— done right, the boat sits level on the mud at low tide, which seems like the main reason for the design. Otherwise, the centreboard might work best, as it gives you more options for sailing.

[Woxbox]

Hey, instead of just studying the plans, why not make a model? Good way to pass the time, plus the real thing will go together much better.

[JimD]

There's no need for the CB case to leak even with a heavy steel board. Mine is epoxied in place. Doesn't leak but has the downside of making any repair job difficult.