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View Full Version : Sadly ignored designs 1. THE Navy Whaler



MarkC
12-21-2007, 05:24 PM
The Royal Navy Whaler 3 in 1 .

Pictures borrowed from the www.nmm.co.uk (http://www.nmm.co.uk) - collections -model boat collections.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc00b3127cceb34485d31b5600000026100Aas2zJs2buG PA


3 in 1 - because it can be rowed, sailed and motored.



Full hull model of a motor and sail whaler (1960), built at a scale of 1:12. The model is decked, equipped and rigged, with the sails set. On the base are plaques inscribed ‘27ft Motor Whaler Sea Boat with its regatta rig’ and ‘3 in 1 Whaler scale 1" equals 1' Model by the ship department’. Also on the base is the number ‘55’.


http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc00b3127cceb34485d09a6500000026100Aas2zJs2buG PA


Is this the most (sadly) ignored boat of all time?

There was a big discussion about 'Sail and Oar' boats - what happened to this boat?

Finding any information about this boat on the internet is strange - 'everyone' remembers it but try to find out anything specific is harder.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc00b3127cceb34485de9a6b00000026100Aas2zJs2buG PA



Used as an all-purpose sea-boat by the Royal Navy, the whaler replaced the traditional Montague 27ft pulling and sailing type in the 1960s. Although the types are very similar, the three in one is fitted with a petrol engine, which increased its efficiency in performing its primary role as a sea-boat. Whalers were also used as recreational boats by the Navy both for leisure and racing, hence the regatta rig on this model.


Note - here it is not called the monatgue - but plenty of people call it that.

Was it such a beast that people have 'let it rest - fade into history'? Bad Scout memories??? Too big a boat for youngsters?

Ok - it is BIG at 27 foot. Would be expensive to build today? Some rowing designs are quite large - joel white's Shearwater. The woods designs (uk designers) also have larger designs. Are 'Sail and Oar' tending towards smaller designs?.

I have read about J. Welsfords' modern ply whaler interpretation - but who has access to the 'original plans'?

I dont see any 'modified for comfortable cruising' ones - perhaps the mahogany planking didn't survive long.

How different was the Montague?

Why is this boat ignored!!! It seems so useful. Perfect. With a nice canvas cover - and perhaps keep it on a mooring - or trail it home.





...(my) Sadly ignored designs 2. The St. Lawrence Skiff


And - BIG plug for the National Maritime Museum Greenwich - fantastic on-line-site - boat model collections, artefacts (Franklin expedition!), also art, weapons from all eras. How a documentation web-site should be done. Congratulations.

Thorne
12-21-2007, 05:35 PM
A lovely and functional design.

One mostly unstated element of modern 'sail and oar' boats is that the maximum number of rowers is usually 4, rarely 6 or more. This is going with the definition of the boat as one used in modern Raids, or regattas/festivals where the boats travel under both sail and oar in most cases.

Whaleboats in various designs are still rowed by rowing teams all over the world, but darn few of 'em have any functional sailing rigs any more.

Dan Miller
12-21-2007, 05:45 PM
...(my) Sadly ignored designs 2. The St. Lawrence Skiff

Not too ignored... They are well featured at the Antique Boat Museum in Clayton, NY (http://www.abm.org) where there are a bunch on display, taking up half of the small craft building, and an additional half-dozen or more in the skiff livery (rowing and sailing versions) for museum visitors to use. I expect they will be featured in the museum that is being developed on the Canadian side as well - http://www.abmgan.org/

(I happen to have taken a job at the ABM and start working there in a couple weeks...)

Cheers,
Dan

earling2
12-21-2007, 06:30 PM
They're beautiful.
There's a very similar double-ended, open lapstrake boat on Martha's Vineyard designed and built by a young guy (can't remember his name) named "Mabel", 28 feet, and used by Vineyard Voyagers for sail training which is a great looking boat, and with it's bit of extra beam, a perfectly OK sailor. They do make nice open summer boats for non-competitive sailing, somehow much more pleasant to hear that lapstrake chuckle and sit on thwarts than inside a purpose-built pure sailing boat. And fast anywhere but upwind

rbgarr
12-21-2007, 07:57 PM
I wish there were a clearer photo of how and where the engine was proposed to be placed, especially with what must be a large cb trunk.

Lovely lines. There was a 30 foot motor lifeboat, open, lapstrake, with a swoopy sheer that belonged to friends when I was young. Bosun could tow a whole litter of Beetle Cats and not think twice about it.

kenjamin
12-21-2007, 08:06 PM
Beautiful model! Great paint scheme!! But a Caledonia Yawl is so much easier to trailer, probably sails better and takes a lot less beer to facilitate the rowing.:D

MarkC
12-22-2007, 05:24 AM
I wonder if the difference between the Navy Whaler 3 in 1 and the Montague was only the addition of a motor?

I cant seem to get the pictures any bigger. Seems to be Shutterfly standard size.

The National Maritime Museum online collection is worth a look and you can see bigger photos there of the whaler - just search under Navy Whaler 3 in 1.

Hwyl
12-22-2007, 06:16 AM
There's a forum member who has a Montague, name escapes me. I'll try a search. Found him, it's Dick Wynne

adampet
12-22-2007, 08:30 AM
thanks Gareth! I knew that there was a forumite in London with a Whaler. I just couldn't come up with his name. He's written some good tales with pictures of rowing on the Thames.

Adam

MarkC
12-22-2007, 01:34 PM
Thanks Gareth/Hwyl - i have read all of Dick's whaler threads. His is the Montagu - and clinker. Hopefully he will see this thread and add something about the Navy whaler 3 in 1 (post 1960 Royal Navy - and carvel built).


a 24' Montagu Whaler - the British Navy's standard ship's boat from around 1900 to 1960. They were made in two sizes, I'm fortunate to own a 27' one. The protective strips on the plank lands (I don't know what they're called) suggest she may have been used for fishing -- protects against damage from hauling nets. They also sail, lug yawl rig (leg-o'mutton mizzen). Not many left these days.

Dick Wynne
12-22-2007, 03:17 PM
Thanks Gareth/Hwyl - i have read all of Dick's whaler threads. His is the Montagu - and clinker. Hopefully he will see this thread and add something about the Navy whaler 3 in 1 (post 1960 Royal Navy - and carvel built).

Hello each, yes I have a Montague Whaler, vintage 1943 (well, about a third of her is) in London. I am told by those who know that the 3-in-1 was a design disaster - heavy & uncomfortable to row, a poor if not dangerous sailer, and very noisy under its air-cooled motor. In fact I seem to recall the Navy stopped them being sailed, but could be wrong about that.

I am reaching the end of a freshening of Vancouver's paint and brightwork. Spent 5 days 'wooding' her acreage of varnished teak, then applied Deks #1 and #2. Looks great and should be a lot easier to maintain. Pictures here when I get around to it.

She has both long and short oars, for both single- and double-banked rowing, plus the full trad sailing rig of jib, lug main, and leg-o-mutton mizzen. And a 6hp outboard on a robust quarter bracket for when we have to buck the tide

Sadly I think she has to go. She is my 'other' boat, my first love being Constance (a Strange Wenda build written of elsewhere). The tidal Thames in London is a difficult place to organise regular rowing, and the solution, a marina berth at Limehouse at the junction of river and the canal system, is expensive, and I could never rally enough regular crew to cover the cost.

MarkC
12-22-2007, 03:32 PM
I am told by those who know that the 3-in-1 was a design disaster - heavy & uncomfortable to row, a poor if not dangerous sailer, and very noisy under its air-cooled motor. In fact I seem to recall the Navy stopped them being sailed, but could be wrong about that.


:eek: Good Grief! That is certain not high praise.

I can imagine that a 27foot sea-going-boat is not light to row - undecked is often considered dangerous, the gunter rig doesn't look all that big enough to push to boat, and a petrol motor is noisy and dangerous.

But, I am not giving up yet!!

Dick Wynne
12-22-2007, 05:18 PM
But, I am not giving up yet!!

Go to the Model Dockyard (http://www.model-dockyard.com) and search for 'whaler' -- they have lots of whaler drawings, I got my Montague Whaler plans from them, they may have the 3-in-1, it may be the 27ft one they list as used by Royal and Commonwealth Navy ships, without 'Montague' in the description.

-- In fact they do list the 3 in 1, part no A45

MarkC
12-23-2007, 07:30 AM
Thankyou!

from Model Dockyard:


John Lambert Plans - The Royal Navy's standard 27 Ft Whaler (Seaboat). Drawn at 3/4in =1’. A three sheet subject showing the general arrangement, construction, hull sections and lines as well as equipment detail, oars etc. The whaler was carried by most R. and Commonwealth warships. (Drawn February 1998) (14 drawings). £30.55 £26.00



L/S/144 John Lambert Plans - United States 26 ft Motor Whaler Mark I of World War Two. Redrawn from information kindly supplied by my co-author Al Ross, this standard ships boat is drawn to two scales and shows some construction variations found in the type. Large sheet. (Drawn October 1999) (15 drawings) £11.75 £10.

There are the plans - also the USA had a 26 footer?!

MarkC
12-23-2007, 07:36 AM
Here is also a good tale from boatdesign.net about fun in a whaler when you forget to pull up the dagger-board on a drying mooring. Comes from boatdesign.net blogger 'Safewalrus':



Now when I WAS a sea cadet (luckily not in Inverness, there again if I had been I'd probably have a nice job in the middle of the Sahara as a camel driver by now rather than going to sea!) Being a naughtical sort of chappie I took the 27 montague whaler out for a sail with a group of us - me as der driver! (holy cow! theres a mistake!) Anyway away we sails having lots of fun! parks up at the end of the day and trots off home, intending to go out the next day!

down to the boat we goes the next day and finds that as we take the boat out there is no way we can get the drop keel up, so we has a fun time nearly tipping the boat over a few times!!! but being boys thinks no more of it!

So off I goes to join the Navy having put the boat back on the mooring, comes back some few months later and the Instructors are really hopping mad with me, I'd left and there was no way anybody could get the drop keel up! Why?

Dead simple really - it was a drying mooring!!! Boat settles on keel and the weight of the boat bends the bloody thing at right angles! Had to cut the bugger out!

Whoops one embarassed Walrus!!! (lucky really I didn't sink the bloody boat)http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/images/smilies/redface.gif http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/images/smilies/redface.gif http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/images/smilies/redface.gif http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

Clip
01-07-2008, 11:06 AM
I happen to have one in the backyard, that I had picked out of a farmers field (where it laid for over ten years). It is a 27ft RCN Montague Whaler - Fiberglass with a hull weight of 1300lbs. It has taken two years to strip out 40 years of navy paint, remove the rotten material (wood- seats, fittings etc) as well as the main bouyancy chamber which was flooded.
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/gallery/albums/album89/front_side.sized.jpg
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/gallery/albums/album89/stern_side.sized.jpg
I intend on sailing her and using a 20hp 4 stroke outboard in her existing motor well, as well as adding a deck and cabin (with popup roof).

To do this I have :
1/ Widened the hull from 6' to 7'4", by adding the bouyancy chambers on either side in the upper portion of the hull. This I hope will help provide better righting tendancy by moving the bouyancy higher on the hull instead of where it was before. This also added 50% more bouyancy than before. The widening will also provide access around the cabin since the chambers will be decked over. Hopefully the widening will also provide more stability.
2/ The hull has an existing 600lb stainless swing centerboard, I will be adding a further 500lbs in the form of batteries. forward and aft of the centerboard case.

You can see photos of this project at:
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album89&page=2
Some of the photos are obviously of the model I used to help plan the work, please note that the slow pace is due to the fact I live in Manitoba, Canada and can only do this work in the summer.

MarkC
01-07-2008, 02:13 PM
Clip - that is quite a project.

Resurecting a boat from a field!

Quite a bit of modifying going on. You seem to be turning a Navy montague into a Navy Whaler 3 in 1 :)

Clip
01-07-2008, 02:46 PM
Clip - that is quite a project.
Oh, it may seem so, but I have built a Selway Fisher Coble from scratch, see:
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album91

The only thing is, I wish I could get some professional advice other than to buy a ready to go boat.(that's no fun) No one I wanted to hire would take it on.
For one thing, how much sail? What type of sail?- I'm leaning towards a Gunter rig since the mast is shorter and I can lower everything easily for bridges, and towing.
What is the best design and layout for the interior? - It is very narrow.
How much ballast is needed to offset the deck and cabin?- Wood weight will be around 400lbs.
How to create a self draining cockpit?

Everything seems to be an experiment, and I feel I'm designing under the premise that if it looks right, it most probably is.

MarkC
01-08-2008, 03:39 AM
The only thing I can think of is to 'hit the books' and read up on design issues. Books by Dave Gerr? I have the book by Larsson and Eliasson which has all of these equations that you need - very heavy reading though. I hope you like maths/physics.

Jeremy Burnett
01-08-2008, 10:13 AM
The " Admiralty Manual of Seamanship",my copy is 1937, has all the details, measurements,drawings and much else for all the small boats in use by the Navy.It is a fascinating publication,I got mine for £1.50 in a second hand bookshop, maybe Abe books or similar would find a copy.There are full details for the Montague whaler plus all the gear they used to carry.
In the Cadets in the late 40's we used to row and sail them, I remember the rowing being very heavy.
At sea the whaler did many of the jobs now done by an RIB. "Away seaboats crew" being a particularly interesting function to rescue a man overboard or similar.The Whaler was lowered to just above the water then a pin knocked out in the hoist that dropped the boat the last bit.As it says in the book "endeavouring to drop the boat on the top of a wave and not in the trough"!!

MarkC
01-16-2008, 04:26 AM
That sounds like an interesting book Jeremy. I think the 'navy whaler 3 in 1' was introduced after the 1950's. It would be great to find someone who had used the Montague Whaler and also the 'Navy Whaler 3 in 1' to compare them.

skuthorp
01-16-2008, 06:11 PM
I sailed in exWW2 Navy whalers in the sea scouts. We did several extended off-shore expeditions sailing to and from Xmas and Easter camps. Gaf main and mizzen, 12ft oars, no motor. Age ranges from 12 to maybe 25 for the leaders. Would never be allowed today!
Some of the best fun was the annual regatta with boat jousting, rowing races, boat drill comps and the final flour bomb and pump fights togged up as Vikings. I doubt whether this would be allowed as well now.

MarkC
01-17-2008, 08:15 AM
Sounds like a few have experience with the Monatgue Whaler - rowing in the Sea Scouts (thanks Jeremy and Skuthorp) - but no-one 'here' with the Navy Whaler 3 in 1?


Would never be allowed today! Yes, Australians must go to NewZealand to have adventures these days.

Mad Scientist
01-18-2008, 10:28 AM
I have some experience with the RCN 27' Service Whaler (Clip's project boat).
The boat had a crew of 6 - the cox'n and five oarsmen. Odd, but that arrangement worked well enough.
The main use for the boat was 'Rescue Stations'. For that, one of the oarsmen was the Rescue Swimmer (member of the ship's dive team) and another oarsman was a signalman, who had the 'fun' of rowing while talking on a handheld VHF radio - very often my job.
The boat had a couple of design oddities, thanks to the outboard motor. First, the outboard was not used to steer the boat. Instead, the motor was fixed in place. That leads to the second oddity - the tiller was located forward of the motor well, and was connected to the rudder by ropes. This had the advantage of giving the cox'n unrestricted access to the motor (no tiller in the way) for whatever combination of fiddling, profanity, or beating he needed to employ to get the motor started. Also, the motor did not pivot up.
The boat was rigged as a yawl for sailing. I can't remember the exact details. I never sailed one, and only saw it done once. On that day, the boat was trying to tack its way up the Narrows on its way to the Dockyard boat shed. Every time the boat came about on a new tack, it lost speed and ended up being blown sideways, so no progress was made. The Narrows was too narrow to allow the boat to build up enogh speed to carry it through a tack. After spending nearly an hour trying to cover a half-mile, the cox'n gave up and motored to the boat shed.

For Clip: I'll see what other details I can find and IM the results to you.

MarkC
01-18-2008, 12:44 PM
I wonder why the Royal Can. Navy decided on an outboard instead of the inboard engine? Sounds like either the RCN wanted to be different ... or the company constructing the fiberglass molds had been making outboard runnabouts and pushed their opinion?

htom
01-18-2008, 01:39 PM
Wasn't the Kitchen Rudder initially used on those boats?

Ottawa Rick
01-18-2008, 03:07 PM
Hello, I thought I'd weigh in with my info on the RCN whaler. I was interested in using one as a camp cruiser on the Ottawa, Rideau and beyond, but got sidetracked by a Soling- quite different, but also fun...

There is a francophone scouting group in the Ottawa area that obtained two of them last summer and used them for a cruise down the Ottawa to Montreal last summer. I understand they had a grand time doing it, too.

There is also a sail training oranization called "the Bytown Brigantine" that uses the retired whalers as part of their program, sailing out of the Britannia Yacht Club, here in Ottawa.

Finally, I found a site- http://navywhaler.co.nr/ -that I suspect is east coast Canada (Keith's beer and a McGill sweatshirt), but could never figure out how to ask any of them about the boat.

The first two would be good sources of info regarding maintenance and repair issues, and the Balboa people posted some photos showing the boat fairly well- for example, you can see the tiller system described above by Mr. Mad Scientist.

I'd aslo wondered if an old hull could be found to be used as a form for cold molding.

Craic
01-19-2008, 05:11 AM
BTW,
there is one very enthusiastic and successful group of whaleboat men and women at http://www.henleywhalers.org.uk/
who sail, row and race their current 3rd. whaleboat 'Molly' very successfully at national and international Raid events.
Informative website too with some historical details.
C.

Mad Scientist
01-24-2008, 08:46 AM
Here's a link to a trip taken by Sea Cadets aboard a whaler:
www.central.cadets.ca/kiddsO/news_e.html (http://www.central.cadets.ca/kiddsO/news_e.html)
There's a photo gallery showing lots of views of the whaler under sail.

Mad Scientist
01-24-2008, 09:14 AM
I wonder why the Royal Can. Navy decided on an outboard instead of the inboard engine? Sounds like either the RCN wanted to be different ... or the company constructing the fiberglass molds had been making outboard runnabouts and pushed their opinion?

They probably chose the outboard for ease of replacement, and to avoid a big inboard 'lump' getting in the way while rowing or sailing.
Our 1950's/1960's 'steamers' carried the whaler on the Stbd side, and over on the Port side was the Motor Work Boat - same length, beamier with a small cabin and powered by an inboard.
The same sort of logic still applies on our modern frigates - a Zodiac with an outboard for rescues, and a rigid-hull inflatable boat with an inboard for run-of-the-mill transportation.
Of course, the inboard vs. outboard discussion could go on forever...

Clip
01-28-2008, 09:49 PM
I have been in contact with Lt. of the Cadet whaler and he has been a great help. Yes, from what I have been told this model of Whaler was used as a Rescue boat until rigid hull inflatables came about, and yes the outboard (20hp) is rigid mounted. My Whaler came from the Supply vessel Protecteur. But I was told the boats were interchanged quite a bit in between shore visits and repairs. Mine had repaired bullet holes in the bow and was built in 1964. Thats all I know.
Note: the Royal Navy did send me the full plans (5 sheets) of their motor whaler-GRP, after I had written and asked. The RCN had no records they could find.

I have hired a yacht designer to help design a new sail rig and twin keels ( I'm getting rid of the center board-no room) with appropiate ballast for me.
The asbuilt and plans - minus the keel and sail changes are:
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/gallery/albums/album89/MyWhalerPlan.sized.jpg

MarkC
01-29-2008, 10:02 AM
the Royal Navy did send me the full plans (5 sheets) of their motor whaler-GRP, after I had written and asked.

Good on the Royal Navy! can we see??

You have put an awsome amount of work into your project.

Mad Scientist
01-31-2008, 12:11 PM
I have been in contact with Lt. of the Cadet whaler and he has been a great help. Yes, from what I have been told this model of Whaler was used as a Rescue boat until rigid hull inflatables came about, and yes the outboard (20hp) is rigid mounted. My Whaler came from the Supply vessel Protecteur. But I was told the boats were interchanged quite a bit in between shore visits and repairs. Mine had repaired bullet holes in the bow and was built in 1964. Thats all I know.


Ah yes - your boat may have been on board when I sailed in Protecteur in early 1992. That was her last trip before the transfer to the west coast.
Three memories: 1. It's a wonder that half the ship's company didn't succumb to alcohol poisoning. (Things sure have changed since then.)
2. That was my first time sailing with female crew members, and, as a result, I finally cured myself of the bad habit of using profanity.
3. Our last port 'across the pond' was Southampton. Our departure was advanced 24 hrs to allow us to take a more southerly course, for iceberg avoidance. That put our departure exactly 80 years-to-the-day after Titanic left on her maiden voyage.

soba
02-07-2008, 12:45 AM
I sailed a Navy Whaler a couple of times....once at Brittania Yacht CLub in Ottawa (where I used to race 505's) and once on Esquimalt Lagoon in Victoria BC.

As I remember they were very hard to tack, especially after sailing the 50's! But they trundled along pretty well once you got them set up. Both places were pretty flat, so I have no idea how they would act in any sort of a sea. The one from Esquimalt belonged to the navy at Royal Roads, and I believe it is sitting in a gravel pit on the Saanich peninsula.

I never got to helm the one at Brittania...that was a looong time ago. 1984? 85?

soba

Clip
02-15-2008, 09:32 PM
Working with designer (he's great), and have settled on fin keels using, Hot Dipped Galvanized steel, shaped using a filler of high impact epoxy grout currently used for turbine bearing pads (from my area of work). Ballast of over 500lbs each.

With a 270sqft of Jib, Main, and Mizzen Sails. Working on details.

Sailor
04-06-2008, 08:44 PM
Clip,
I looked around online for one of those montague whalers. I was a sea cadet back in the day and we had two of them at my corps. I am now in the navy and funny enough my first ship was Protecteur. I'm now in Preserver (PRO's sister ship) I would love to know where you found one. I miss sailing them so much. They can be a riot in a blow. I loved the rig for sailing, rowing them was fun and the motor was handy once or twice. Let me know if there were more of them where you got yours from. Thanks,
Daniel

robin burnham
04-25-2008, 07:50 AM
Hi all,
I have read the items on the whalers with great interest, and thought I may be able to throw a little light on some things.
I was a seascout in Bristol in the 1950s; we learnt to row and sail in a 30’ Naval Gig, a 25’ whaler from the old Arandora Star, and our scoutmaster’s 12’ sailing Dinghy.
The gig was the fastest service boat in the navy, a wonderful boat for rowing and sail training, six oarsmen, 4 with 17’ and 2 with 16’ ash oars, no leathers. Under sail, with two dipping lugsails called settee rig, why I do not know, every member of the crew had a job to do.
The sails were dipped around the mast when tacking, and she could get around not much slower than the racing dinghies we used to sail against on occasion.
I have just completed a model of this gig at ¾" to a foot, after a lot of research.
Saunders, later Saunders Roe around 1907, built her in Cowes. Diag planking inside, fore and aft planking outside with oiled calico in between. All secured together with Sam Saunders’s Patent method, called "Consuta" in which the planking was stitched together with 16g copper wire, making for a very light flexible boat. I could never understand why they were not used more as seaboats in the Navy, although they were usually only specified on Capitol ships.
There was also smaller gigs in the Navy, 25’ 4 oared, but I cannot find any info about them. One was laid up in our yard for quite a while, looking very much like a cornish type gig, she belonged to the Dartmouth Sea Rangers. I found it very hard to get any information at all. I have picked up a few odd photos in my travels but nothing much.
However whalers…
I served my time as a boatbuilder in a small boatyard behind the Naval college, mainly on 27’ whalers, 25’ motor cutters and 16’ fast motor boats which were pigs to plank as they had a very sharp turn around the first mould.
The Whalers were lovely boats to work on, English Elm clinker planking, American Elm Timbers and thwarts etc; I am in the process of building a model to the same scale as the gig. 14 planks per side. I hold a copy of an original tendering specification, and plans.
There were two whalers in the service, 27’ "K" Montague & 25’ "L" The Montague was rowed with 5 oarsman, 3 one side two the other, (naturally you might say), but could be rowed double banked although this lost you a lot of leverage. I have seen some whalers with the cappings not swelled out over the crutch plate position, and small cheek pieces fitted on to cover the swell pieces, this was on a mahogany whaler which was probably built in Malta. The overseer in this country would not let you do that. The capping had to run in one piece from bow to stern, over lapping the swell pieces. This was obviously to stop moisture getting down behind the swell pieces.
Now then, the next mark of whaler was quite different, being in carvel double diag, quite a nice looking shape boat but…we always used to say designed by a committee.
Fitted with an Enfield flat twin engine, very heavy, had to be started with ether cartridges, these engines were also fitted to the 25’ motor boats.
These boats were too heavy to row, too slow to sail, and under power the stern used to sink right down and cause a tremendous wash. Not liked by the Matloe from comments we used to hear.
Kitchen rudders. Only ever fitted to 32’ cutters with two canvas canopies, so far as I know, never to any type of whaler. We used to see the cadets learning to handle them winding furiously on the control wheel under the tiller.
I know where there are two monty’s and one double diag whalers in Plymouth. Also there is so far as I know the only gig left in the dockyard, sadly neglected leaning against the back wall uncovered, absolutely disgraceful, a Naval heritage boat left to moulder away. I had hoped to help restore her but politics intervened. There were two in Plymouth, the green gig belonging to commandant royal marines, believed burnt, and the blue gig belonging to port admiral, which is the one left.
Well I hope the remarks above have been of interest to your readers.

Clencher
04-25-2008, 03:03 PM
Excellent post Robin.

Absolutely scandalous how our maritime heritage is being left to rot or even being burnt.

I was in Plymouth on a visit last weekend. In the distance, in the murk, was what looked suspiciously to me like a whaler. Maybe you recognise and can throw some light on this boat? Apologies for the quality of the pic but it was a long way away and I only had my digital 'happy snapper' not my proper camera.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL370/9115650/16752884/314741460.jpg

Dick Wynne
04-28-2008, 01:53 PM
I was in Plymouth on a visit last weekend. In the distance, in the murk, was what looked suspiciously to me like a whaler. Maybe you recognise and can throw some light on this boat? Apologies for the quality of the pic but it was a long way away and I only had my digital 'happy snapper' not my proper camera.


Looks like a K, and the snap suggests she will handle under jib & mizzen to some extent, will she tack I wonder? I hope to find out in my own in a few weeks. She is reaching the end of a lengthy repaint saga which goes like this:

Take all the teak back to bare wood (was varnished) and apply Deks 1 & 2, looks and feels great. Rub down topsides and overpaint white with ( as I fancied for a change) dark blue. Two coats was fine but there were many tiny areas of chalkiness, maybe filler, eg around nail heads, on which the paint would not take. Rub down again, prime to cover all the chalky bits with certainty, two more coats dark blue. Phone call last week from previous owner (whose experience and opinions I cannot hold a candle to): "Don't paint her dark whatever you do, the sun will overheat her and she'll open up!". So last weekend: Rub down again . . . she will be white again by next week. It will take an archaeologist to find the boat under that lot.

MarkC
04-29-2008, 10:30 AM
Robin said:


There were two whalers in the service, 27’ "K" Montague & 25’ "L" The Montague was rowed with 5 oarsman, 3 one side two the other, (naturally you might say), but could be rowed double banked although this lost you a lot of leverage.

The Royal Maritime Museum says that the Montague was replaced in the 1960's by the Royal Navy 27ft Motor Whaler Sea Boat - or - the Royal Navy Whaler 3 in 1.


Used as an all-purpose sea-boat by the Royal Navy, the whaler replaced the traditional Montague 27ft pulling and sailing type in the 1960s. Although the types are very similar, the three in one is fitted with a petrol engine, which increased its efficiency in performing its primary role as a sea-boat. Whalers were also used as recreational boats by the Navy both for leisure and racing, hence the regatta rig on this model.

Is this the one you refer to when you say:


Fitted with an Enfield flat twin engine, very heavy, had to be started with ether cartridges, these engines were also fitted to the 25’ motor boats.

...

These boats were too heavy to row, too slow to sail, and under power the stern used to sink right down and cause a tremendous wash. Not liked by the Matloe from comments we used to hear.


Terminology! Montague, 3 in 1, Royal Canadian Montague, American Navy Whaler.

Someone could write a nice book about all these nice, different, Whalers!

Michiel
06-07-2008, 03:49 AM
One week ago i bought a whaler which i'm planning to restore. I think this is the boat you mean Markc? Did any of you find a building plan of the boat? Sorry for my bad english. There are some things going to be different, one of them is the engine. The original doesn't work anymore and because i will use the boat for pleasure, it must be an engine thats not noisy. If you like to see more photos, you can find them on http://onsstekje.110mb.com and then select for Project_boot. More photos will follow.

For some reason the Photo's will not be shown here so when you want to see them you'll have to go to the website i mentioned.

oskar
07-08-2008, 02:04 PM
Hello,

I also have an old whaler. It's an english one. Build in 1939,(found some inscriptions in a little shelf) presumably build for the destroyer HMS Noble. This destroyer is in 1941 bought by the dutch navy, and is renamed in Hr Ms Jan van Galen. My whaler is also called Jan van Galen. Someone has rebuild the whaler into a sailboat probably in the fifties or sixties.
It does also have a cabin. You can see a lot of photo's of it at my blog:

http://vangalen.blogspot.com/
if anyone has more information or questions about (my) whaler(s). Please let me know
o.brandenburg@chello.nl

StormPlover
07-11-2008, 09:54 AM
There was also her larger sister the 32' cutter. I owned one for a few years. She was bought after WW2 from the Admiralty in Plymouth (the one on the right hand side of the pond) and shipped by rail! to Whitstable, Kent where she was converted to a yacht in the yard of Anderson, Rigden & Perkins. The freight cost was 2 tons at 6 shillings per ton or 12 shillings (there were 20 shillings to the pound sterling in those pre-decimal days)
Imagine asking at your local railroad station today.

Whifflingpin
09-04-2008, 02:48 PM
Picking up on a few points in this thread:

I owned a Montague whaler a few decades ago, and taught scouts to row and sail in it. I don’t think they found it too heavy in the water.

My son owns what we think to be a 27' 3-in-1, currently moored in Brixham.

The most obvious differences between his and mine are:
mine was clinker built, his is carvel;
his has an engine;
his has no mizzen mast;
my yard was hoisted on a strop and hauled to near vertical by tack tackle, his is a sliding gunter, with a gert bronze jaw at the masthead;
mine had removable crutches, his has fixed wooden rowlocks rising above the gunwhale.

He would probably second what has been said about the engine. It is heavy and takes up too much room. It is far enough aft to bring the boat down at the stern more than is elegant, at least. He is thinking of taking it out, and, when a motor is needed, using an outboard on a bracket off the quarter (which worked well enough on mine on occasion.)

He’s amusing himself with the rig too, using my old mast with a spritsail.

If this thread is turning into a register of surviving whalers, then there are a couple on the mast pond in Portsmouth dockyard, and one ashore on Sheppey which will be afloat and sailing “this year.”

Michel Dignand
02-11-2009, 03:18 PM
I first sailed a Montague Whaler when I was in the Sea Scouts in about 1954. Our troop had one whaler and three ex-navy 14 footers. Marvellous boats to learn in, all of them, and no, not too heavy to row, even by boys.

Years later, in the Royal Marines we did our sail-training in Montague Whalers in Portsmouth, around 1960, I suppose. Serving on HMS Whirlwind in the West Indies ('63 - '66) we had a 3-in-one rather than a Montague - hopeless!

The ONLY advantage was that they had an engine, but they were such bad engines that we had to have an engineer on board as part of the crew. They could sail, of course, and we did so in Bermuda for recreation, but they sailed poorly because they were unbalanced and underpowered, and in any case the sailors on board were, largely, untrained and uninterested in sailing.

When I returned to a shore posting in Plymouth, we had a Montague Whaler permanently on davits on the quayside, rarely used except for training in the art of lowering and hoisting the boat from the waters below.

However, in those days there was an annual Naval regatta in each of the major naval harbours, and this was largely sailed in Montague Whalers and the trashy fibreglass sailing boat (Bosuns, I remember they were called) that the Navy had adopted after the demise of the redoubtable fourteen footer.

I had the priviledge of skippering the winning whaler in the 1968 series of races, I think it was.

They were, or are, excellent sea boats, well-designed, well-balanced and perfect for training. I've remained a 'ropes and gaff' (or 'sticks and string') enthusiast all my life.

I'm currently writing a novel for young adults which features, amongst other things, a Montague Whaler.

Pity they are dying out. I'd love to have one now!

Sailor
02-15-2009, 12:11 PM
I know there are many folks out there who would love to have one of these old boats. What would it take to produce a limited run of them I wonder????

jonboy
03-05-2009, 11:37 AM
Hi all from a new member, tempted to write after all the posts about Montagues...I would like to add this from experience.. I think there's a tendency to be a bit starry eyed about all classics..wooden boats, old Harleys, Morris minors for heaven's sake..., you name it... About MNWs though I would say this as follow on to the thread that has run two years now.
Pros.. Admiralty design and construction standard ought to speak for itself..designed as a jollyboat, ship-shore ferry, training vessel, all those things mentioned above and good at it (or even a whaler as it happens) , small inboard Stuart Turner or Enfield, five to eight hands rowing ... but leave it there...!
Mine was a 27', canoe stern, double diagonal carvel, bastard mahogany on oak( don't forget there's been no true Mahogany since the demise of the Honduran stock at least a hundred years ago with the exception of some out of Cuba in the twenties)The outer planking diagonal not horizontal, and built early 50s and converted late sixties with Bermudan rig and a dropping steel centreplate and a dirty big Perkins P3 diesel.
Nice quality conversion originally , brass portholes, well made hatches, not a bit of ply anywhere.
But my point is this... it was a conversion, which equals compromise, and compromises don't do any one thing well.
She was great for mooching about the coast, creeping up estuaries kipping overnight on a mud berth...my caravan on the water... but cons? cramped, barely headroom even sitting, and compared to what gets into a twenty foot day sailer now..! heavy sterned, and wallowing, (Yeah, I know, the Perkins lump, but she needed something with a bit of grunt as she was so heavy) tending to broach in a running sea, and I'm only talking coastal stuff...the dropping centre board was a prize p* in the a*, jamming with the smallest bit of muck and with no head room, so hard to operate.
Any through- fitting in this type of hull has to be perfect, and light damage if undetected is a serious in double carvel. quietly rotting away when in and out planks look ok..and if a boat like this is ideal for dropping down onto her bilge keels then sooner or later there's going to be bit of scaffold pipe or rock.. it won't hole her, granted but at least you'd know where the problem is...capillary action between the layers makes for grief...
And at the end of the day she just wasn't a good sailer...
Sad to say I couldn't sell her, because those who know , know all the above, and the average beginner isn't going to make his first forays in a 27' anything. I did, and I learnt plenty.

In the end I got three times the asking price for her as an ok seaworthy dayboat, by breaking her. The motor went to a classic bus nut, the mahogany to a furniture maker, just the mast, rig, deckfittings, portholes, and general kit brought half what Id advertised her for....
So I bet that's upset a few people... and I am a wooden boat fanatic, but..
just don't get romantic about MNWs ... great craft when used as intended but that's it. so tell me I'm wrong... jonboy

Dick Wynne
03-05-2009, 05:56 PM
Point taken Jonboy, but your whaler was not a Montagu, unless I'm mistaken in thinking this is the only type known as a Montague:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2194/2522739826_c0f96b6fdc.jpg

Well they come in 2 sizes of course, this is the 27'6", I think there is also a 24'. There is a misconception that every ex-navy whaler is a MW, unfortunately. This creates confusion and not a little unfairness - the MW trophy at last years London Great River Race went to a GRP boat considerably lighter than a MW, because the owner mistakenly entered her as a MW and the organisers didn't check it, having another 300 boats to worry about. Making my Vancouver 3rd instead of 2nd in class...Oh well, it's all for fun anyway.

Your boat sounds like a 3 in 1, a notoriously unsatisfactory design under every form of propulsion except gravity, but I am open to correction. Not that my boat would benefit from a cabin conversion either, mind!

Clip
03-05-2009, 08:45 PM
I can fully understand Jonboy's misgivings, and Dick thats a fantastic looking Whaler!!! Would love to look her over.

After I had acquired a surplas RCN GRP Montague Whaler hull, I did do a fair bit of research to determine what is to be done with her. Incidents with similiar hulls indicated much what he mentions, including a poor righting ability after a capsize.

I hope to have addressed these issues by:
1/ Widening the hull from 6ft to 8ft- see photo
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/gallery/albums/album89/Whaler08_023a.jpg
2/ Will be mounting twin keels just back from the midesection, with a total of 1100lbs of ballast. Removing the original center board.
3/ Removing the bouyancy chambers located low in the hull that took up interior room, and replacing them to the space created by the widening, also creating 70% more bouyancy than before.
4/ Hope to add bulwarks to allow better splash protection and allow a better profile for a taller cabin.
5/ Replace the outboard motor well (sealing off the old motorwell), with a modern lightweight inboard.
6/ Replace rudder with a part skeg and part balance rudder that is deeper in depth.
7 Move mast 2ft further aft and replace old sail with a modern design (but with a hollow wood mast) and to retain the mizzen.

You may ask why go to all this effort? Well the hull was in good shape. The work is fun and will teach me alot. A similiar hull today would cost at least $10,000 to make, and Ted Brewer is giving me a hand with great advice on a hourly rate.

Note- The original GRP hull with all attachments only weighed 1300lbs leaving an opportunity to apply some good ballast.

earling2
03-12-2009, 07:34 PM
I love your foam filled sponsons. Love the well-thought out improvisation. Should be pretty cool once you get it sorted out.

robm
03-13-2009, 10:59 AM
I have had some interesting experiences with the FG whalers once used by the Canadian Navy. They are about the only boat I have ever wanted, that wouldn't fit on top of the car....

The late model FG ones had a well for a 20 HP Johnson OB. With this engine, they went like stink. I once had the pleasure of steering one under tow back to the HMCS Provider, anchored or moored near HMCS Discovery in Vancouver's inner harbour, from the Jericho Sailing Centre. The towing boat was another whaler, and there was only one engine between the pair. Both boats were leaving their stern waves behind them, and not really leaving much wake. It didn't take much more than an hour to get there. I guess they were doing about 8 knots.

The boats had kind of a bustle, a bulge aft that filled out the displacement there. I suspect this was to increase the PC, and permitted the higher speeds under power. Apparently, this version didn't row as well as the old wooden ones that had no bustle.

I ran into an old fellow who had been in the RCN in the late '60's when these boats were introduced. He recalled being put ashore in one on a small Carribean island to act as an artillery spotter for some excercises that were going on. His bosun decided to go in the old fashioned way, with 5 guys on the oars. 4 others, from other ships on the same excercise, tried going in under power. There was a bit of a surf running, and only the boat under oars made it in, and off again. The other 4 all broached and rolled when the breaking waves sluiced through the motor well, dousing the outboard. One of them had the engine blown right out of the well!

I wonder if that hull is still in the gravel pit near Victoria. It might be worth the trip to salvage it. The best feature of "frozen snot" is that you can leave a boat made of it under a bush for a long time, and it doesn't go back to nature...

neilm
03-13-2009, 12:08 PM
...(my) Sadly ignored designs 2. The St. Lawrence Skiff

It's on my list. They were the windsurfing boards of the 19th century.

Neil

Clip
03-13-2009, 03:57 PM
Robm said
The late model FG ones had a well for a 20 HP Johnson OB. With this engine, they went like stink. I once had the pleasure of steering one under tow back to the HMCS Provider

Maybe it is the same one I have shown here that I am working on? It apparently came from the Providor, I'm calling her "Warshot" since she does have repaired bullet holes in the bow.
You wouldn't have a story explaining that, would you Robm?

robm
03-13-2009, 09:11 PM
Nope. I only got the chance to use them occasionally, as a Sea Scout leader. The organizers would borrow them from the Navy for regattas, where all the Sea Scouts in the province would get together. There were enough ex-Navy types in the organization that we didn't get into trouble with them.

In fact, I would say I couldn't even come up with any good stories about the scratches on your boat, let alone the bullet holes. We treated them pretty carefully.

Did you get the oars, sails, etc. as well, or just the hull?

Clip
03-14-2009, 07:27 AM
Did you get the oars, sails, etc. as well, or just the hull?

There were three whalers, sitting in a farmers field for over ten years here in Manitoba.

Unfortunately all wood and cloth were rotten, but on two of them the hulls were in good shape. I just took the hull. I have started a blog on the work, seen at:
http://www.backyardboatbuilding.org.uk/forums/blog.php?b=9


http://www.onlinephotographers.com/gallery/albums/album89/inter1.sized.jpg

kenr
05-17-2009, 08:11 AM
hi guys im new at this forum bis ,But i thought you might like to know about the 1943 27ft monty we have been restoring ,we found it in good condition under a tarp in a cow paddock with original spruce masts ,a full set of original sheets and anear new yanmar diesel , hopefully will be on the water this summer .Ill try to post some pics ...

arfabuck
07-17-2009, 05:00 PM
Late-comer to this thread but could not resist a post!
27' Monty's are alive and well in New Zealand still. Maybe it is because we are situated at the bottom of the globe and 'things' tend to filter down to us long after the rest of the world has passed them by.
We have a 'Monty' at the Shed.- digression here, Mens Sheds are a phenomenom of the Antipodes, over 300 in Oz and 15+ in NZ so far in 12 months. It is a place where a bloke can go and do blokey things to his hearts content, with like-minded peers.
Our Monty is ex RNZN and saw service in the Solomons during WW2. There is a row of MG bullet holes to prove it, whether authentic or not I cannot say.
She is owned by the Waiuku Museum Trust and stored and maintained at the West Franklin Community Mens Shed. She earns her keep by being hired out to film companies etc, "The Piano" and "River Queen" being two recent outings.
She 'was' kept in pristine condition and used regulary on the local harbour. However film crews have a habit of 'aging' her for film work so that is the state she is now kept in.
The Picton Mens Shed has another Monty with full history that is being restored. http://www.m.net.nz/for/seaportnewscom/default.asp?nc=6640&id=275
There is a very good RN training video online taken in the late 50's in Malta if anyone is interested.
Some shots of Monty coming back from a film shoot last year. http://picasaweb.google.com/arfabuck/220820081#
enjoy!

Art

matoi
07-19-2009, 02:15 AM
There is a very good RN training video online taken in the late 50's in Malta if anyone is interested.

Could you please post a link to this video?

Does anyone have experience of sailing John Welsford's "6M Whaler"?
I have read somewhere that it doesn't sail very well to windward. Is it true? If so, for what reasons?

Thanks, best wishes,

Mato

arfabuck
07-20-2009, 12:48 AM
Could you please post a link to this video?

Mato

http://www.rfaaplymouth.org/talhandaq/TH%20Video/THvideo1.htm

Something like 45 mins long but!

Art

arfabuck
07-20-2009, 12:53 AM
Just discovered 5 surplus covers for the 27' Montagu whaler going cheap cheap.

I suppose with transport costs involved there will not be any takers?

Art

matoi
07-20-2009, 06:48 AM
Thanks for the link, but the video doesn't seem to work unfortunately. I've sent a message so perhaps they will fix it.

A couple of pictures from their collection:

http://www.rfaaplymouth.org/talhandaq/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/whaler.jpg

http://www.rfaaplymouth.org/talhandaq/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/whaler2.jpg

Are these Montague or some other type?

Cheers!

Mato

arfabuck
07-20-2009, 02:19 PM
Pity about the videos not working. All the Siege of Malta clips appear to be OK.

Yes, the still shots are of the standard 27' fleet whaler. The first is in Sliema Creek Malta , mid 50's, the second is outside the breakwater entrance to Grand Harbour, Valetta, same period.

The Sec. of the Menshed has just produced the plans for the Monty, discovered in some dark recess. Might be time to get the modelling gear out again and produce a working variation similar to the NMM.

Art

donald branscom
07-21-2009, 02:39 AM
There were many reasons this design was neglected.
First it was a NAVY boat.

arfabuck
08-15-2009, 07:00 AM
Thanks for the link, but the video doesn't seem to work unfortunately. I've sent a message so perhaps they will fix it.

Mato

Hi Mato,

The video has been put up on You Tube. Not such a good resolution but still enjoyable. Remember there are three parts which should play automatically.

try the URL again,

regards,

Art

matoi
08-29-2009, 05:14 PM
Thank you very much!

Here is the direct link if anyone else is interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QD4GozzrkA&feature=channel

Best wishes,

Mato

Blue Bonnet Wahler
03-02-2011, 11:10 AM
Well this is a bit of a late reply to an old thread but given the amount of comment, questions and discussion in it I thought you all might like to know that I am currently restoring a Navy 3-1 whaler sea boat from the former South African Navy. The three Rothesay class frigates SA bought from the UK: renamed the "President" class and were known as The President Steyn; the President Pretorious and the President Kruger. I understand that my little ship SA 153 70 (27') was from the Kruger after she was rammed and sunk by the SAS Tafelberg in the 1980's. I found her behind the False Bay Yacht Club in Simon's Town, South Africa, where she had lain and languished forgotten to such a degree that a wall had been built around her! I removed her to the Upper Karoo where I stripped her of the remaining bronze fittings that hadn't already been pillaged for their scrap value and set about taking out her rotten wash strake and bits of her rubbing strakes. The rudder was non-existent but the old enfield 2 cylinder air-cooled diesel was still pretty much complete. I moved home and business back down to the coast at Port Alfred on the Eastern Cape and brought the whaler with me and set about the work in hand. I was really lucky in renting a workshop close to a very friendly pattern maker's and have been able to get all the bronze noggins for the wash strake cast as well as the pintles for the rudder for just under R800 -- um, about USD 100! A local joinery remade the profile for the upper rubbing strake - half-round strips and mouled backing strake in meranti - which is on beautifully. I then repainted her above the water line in navy and white just as the Admiralty intended. The motor is out and is being serviced and the entire interior has been washed and flushed and scraped, painted in aluminium paint (as this seemed to be what the SAN had done) and all the foam flotation cells have been scrubbed, patched with membrane and painted; reinstalled and, can you believe it, inspected and passed as fit for use by our Marine and Coastguard inspector! The bech tops are all in - I had to remake all the for's ones in 12 mm marine ply - and the original teak planking deck is back in too. My present goal is to remake the wash strake which, given that the original was elm or oak (non-existent in these here parts) I will have to do in the 12 mm marine ply with a teak face. The lateral sheer of this will be easey peasey but the longitudinal sheer will have to be cut rather than bent to form. Ah well, you can't have everything. Just back are the two exhaust silencers which are incredibly complicated and I can't figure out why. After a lot of grumbling a local engineering shop produced two brand new copies from the rusty scrap I gave them as samples and they charged me just R950 for both (USD 115) when I thought they would be five times that. Anyhoo, I'm now going to Simon's Town to the Naval Museum there where a 3-1 is on display with a full sail rig. I want to recreate the spars even if I may never sail her in anger. I have a set of sails and all the rigging but the stick is a it of a mystery. You all know there are no photo's of this type anywhere on the net (just Montagues) and I'd like to rectify that by making pics of my ship available. I know Michiel in Belgium has got one he was restoring although he dropped off the radar a while back (where are you?) and the Sea Cadets under Steve Erikson at the TS Knysna has got a rough one tucked away in his boat shed - who incredibly generously loaned me a trailer to move my one ( I promise I'll return it soon Steve!) and these seem to be the sole survivors of a small fleet that were used to thrill onlookers in their races across Table Bay in the days of yore. so all these comments about 3-1's being horrible sailers is still in doubt at least in the minds of ex-navy types who earned their blisters pulling these things in the Old SA. I must say, I am having quite a tussle in my mind about re-fitting the Enfield motor. It is bloody heavy and considering I may only use the ship on the Kowie River, I'm thinking of cheating and putting a little yanmar in just for river use. I didn't like what I read about her being pulled down by the stern under the motor and how awful the dagger board was to deploy but I think for my own satisfaction I'm going to bring her back as close to original spec as I (and my funds) am able. Overall, the ship is an absolute joy to behold. The sheer is graceful and purposeful, the strakes on the sides give her a real naval presence and, what the heck, even if she is heavy and noisy and difficult to tack...she'll still be my Whaler! (And I don't see too many 3-1's about these y'ere parts. Do you?) Please contact me for pics if you'd like to see this lovely ship. I'm a newbie here so I will try to figure out how to post some in this thread. Anyhoo, glad I've been able to add to the knowledge pool in this neglected area. The Montague's are a lovely bunch, but the Navy 3-1's were really, if you like, a link between real traditional "small" sea boats and the modern RIBs. I'm glad if I have been able to fill the gap!

Thorne
03-02-2011, 04:00 PM
Please put some photos up on Flickr or wherever, then post links to 'em -- we'd LOVE to see the boat.

Here's how to post photos on this forum:

FIRST - Don't attach photos. Only a tiny version will display.

SECOND - Post the photos on the web. Use your own website or a free image hosting service like www.flickr.com, picturetrail, photobucket, etc.

Once posted on the web, right-click the photo to "Copy Image Location", or drag the photo to another browser window, then copy the image URL (web address) which will end in ".jpg". You can test by pasting the photo URL into the location field (http://* ) of a web browser and see if the photo displays. Remember that this process will not work for photos only located on your computer, or uploaded to members-only Yahoo groups.

(In Flickr - You usually have to first click the photo to bring up the black-framed viewer, then click the "View All Sizes" link near the top right. Then you can get the image URL by right-clicking the image. Alternately you can go to the Actions menu on the upper left, then select "View All Sizes". If you don't want the largest size (displayed) you can then click another option in the "Available sizes" links above the image.)

THIRD - ONE TIME PROCEDURE TO SET UP ENHANCED INTERFACE:
1. Click the "Private Messages" link in the browser window in the top left of the menu bar.
2. Click the "General Settings" link about 2/3 down the left column under "My Account".
3. At the bottom of the next page in "Misc Options", select "Enhanced Interface - Full WYSIWYG Editing" from the Message Editor Interface options. Click the Save Changes button.

FOURTH - DO THIS EVERY TIME TO POST IMAGES IN THREADS:
A. Once the above Enhanced Interface has been set up, in any "Reply" window you can click the "insert image" icon --> a little yellow square icon with a dot at each corner, a tiny tree in the center.

Depending on browser version and Reply/Edit status, this may bring up a simple window to paste the URL into, or the "Add an Image" window described below.

B. If the window titled "Add an Image" comes up, click the "From URL" tab, paste the URL of the photo in the field, deselect the box for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally", then click the "INSERT IMAGE" button. The Forum software will resize some large images, so look at your post to see the actual displayed images.

YouTube video on how to select the image URL in Firefox, navigate the "Add an Image" tabs and paste the image URL -
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkfB_eDmBRw&feature=player_embedded"

Blue Bonnet Wahler
03-03-2011, 02:07 AM
Thanks for that! Here you go: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcgregor-ahoy Fill your boots! I'll also put some pics up of my little clinker launch "Tess" that was built by the Thesen's boat yard in Knysna circa 1950. The 3-1 Whaler is named Blue Bonnet btw. You can see her on the slips and having a quick float. This was so I could turn her round on the trailer to get at un-reachable bits. Only a quick dip but deeply satisfying to see the old thing on the water after, what? 30 years? Yikes. I'll put up some pics of her before I striped her for the work later too so come back for a peek tomorrow! Enjoy. Yaaar!

Blue Bonnet Wahler
03-03-2011, 02:21 AM
How well does that outboard rig work and how did you brace it? Closer pics? Thanks

keyhavenpotterer
03-03-2011, 03:37 AM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_kjlgeS_S_Ck/SrCEC9hm8WI/AAAAAAAABeo/TAIE5ECQxI8/s640/P1020556.JPG

Good website for those interested in whalers. This is a group called the Henley Whalers that 'raid' Molly.

http://www.henleywhalers.org.uk/

Blue Bonnet Wahler
03-03-2011, 05:39 AM
Wonderful! Now if I can only trail my Blue Bonnet across Africa into Europe I could perhaps join in the fun?

Sailor
03-03-2011, 06:40 PM
I sailed an old GRP whaler when I was a cadet. Our corps had two of them. The masts were pretty solid affairs. I was in my late teens and could just carry one on my own. I remember rigging one under a stopwatch by myself from masts down to ready to sail, with the sails rigged etc in 13 minutes. I love sailing them. If I ever came across one for sale, my brother and I would certainly buy it. can't seem to find them anymore. I heard two where sold at surplus last year for 200 bucks apeice. I'd ahve paid 2k for one. If they ever come up again, I'll be there ready to buy one that's for sure.

keyhavenpotterer
03-04-2011, 03:47 AM
Sailor,

Molly is an Edey and Duff Whale boat in grp. She was imported into the UK from the US from Edey and Duff, who have now ceased trading last year. Somewhere, someone must have the molds. If you can track that down, you could get a bare hull molded for not too much I should think in these times, and fit her out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8FySl85oJw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy1MeAbNsmI&feature=related

Be careful if you go 'Whaling' with it though....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdIAvUMNKtg&feature=fvwrel

Blue Bonnet Wahler
03-04-2011, 12:16 PM
Whalers galore! Wahoo! Watch this space! The Little Brewery on the Quay have offered me a very nice jetty mooring on the Kowie River in Port Alfred as they feel she, Blue Bonnet, will lend the traditional look they are aiming for on the old quay. This means 20 miles of navigable water and maybe, just maybe ocean access into the Indian Ocean if I can get the boat certified for coastal blue water sailing. Hmmmm Bazaruto and the Inyacha arichipeligo beckons in Mozambique so who knows... now back to that bloody wash strake and its @*&king sheer! We'll be sailng this year, I promise! Yaar!

frank earl
01-17-2012, 10:17 AM
[QUOTE=MarkC;1721028]The Royal Navy Whaler 3 in 1 .

Pictures borrowed from the www.nmm.co.uk (http://www.nmm.co.uk) - collections -model boat collections.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc00b3127cceb34485d31b5600000026100Aas2zJs2buG PA


3 in 1 - because it can be rowed, sailed and motored.



http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc00b3127cceb34485d09a6500000026100Aas2zJs2buG PA


Is this the most (sadly) ignored boat of all time?

There was a big discussion about 'Sail and Oar' boats - what happened to this boat?

Finding any information about this boat on the internet is strange - 'everyone' remembers it but try to find out anything specific is harder.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc00b3127cceb34485de9a6b00000026100Aas2zJs2buG PA






..

Full Tilt
01-26-2012, 09:41 PM
I agree about the St. Lawrence Skiff being sadly ignored(Clayton Museum notwithstanding). There are pictures of Toronto's waterfront from the turn of the century with dozens of them filled with men in boater hats and women in feathered bonnets. Then Mr. Evinrude went and spoiled it all.These days, I'm the only one but, judging by the thumbs up, waves and hails from shore of ' That's a beautiful boat', the appreciation is still there. I make it my mission to cruise the busy city shoreline representin' my pride and joy and offering young people an alternative to a sea-doo.
I think, sailing without a rudder, of any kind, scares prospective builders off but the larger skiffs were fitted with conventional rudders. I built a tiller originally, but later installed rope steering(I am considering a mizzen)that works quite well. I have a background in windsurfing so the narrow beam isn't to scary for me.

Will Wheeler
01-27-2012, 12:43 AM
Apparently, the whaler is still in active service with the RCN Sea Cadets. (Link provided to me by a friend who is an officer in the Sea Cadets.)

http://prairiecadets.smugmug.com/Sea-Cadets/Sailing-Operations/Lake-Superior-Whaler-Boats/1019958/1087955753_xFYB6-L.jpg

Portland
01-27-2012, 12:52 AM
Here , an old whaler town , they have regular whaler races with the other old whaler towns of Warrnambool , and Port Fairy.
Port Fairy also regularly take out their 150+yo lifeboat .
Right now , they are having a "ships boat" built for them , from a 1793 design . From memory it is 27 ft long .
I have photos of it being planked up.
Regards Rob J.

Sailor
01-27-2012, 05:09 PM
http://prairiecadets.smugmug.com/Sea-Cadets/Sailing-Operations/Lake-Superior-Whaler-Boats/1019958/1087955753_xFYB6-L.jpg

That is EXACTLY what I sailed as a cadet and exactly what I've been keeping an eye open for. They are rare as hen's teeth now though it would appear.

Portland
01-28-2012, 01:50 AM
I was out on my boat today , and took time out to watch the female whaler crew interval training. Six rowers , and 1 on the sweep.
They were doing very well , they really have their act together , but what surprised me was how high they held the oars.
All of the rowers were holding the oars at head hight or higher , the woman in the bow had her oars held at well above head hight.
Regards Rob J.