stiff steering

[david quillin]

I have a 39' Hooper Island Draketail with two steering stations, on in the wheelhouse, one aft on deck. My steering has become progressively stiffer, and lumpy. I thought the problem was in the wheels, but today I disconnected the rudder post from the steering tube, and the wheels turned freely. I found when I tried to move the rudder post however, that I couldn't budge it manually.

I assume from this that my rudder post is the problem, although it could be the rudder itself I suppose. Any information on the following would be a great help:

Is it normal for the rudder post to be so tight you can not move it by hand? The rudder post has the words BUOK and RP125 on it, plus another word too corroded over to read. Google turns up nothing on either... any idea who the manufacturer is? If it is the rudder post, how do you maintain it? There are two large locking nuts where the shaft emerges from the hull, but I don't know what kind of bearing or packing is in them. There are no visible grease nipples...

Any help?

[Ian McColgin]

Not good, but doping out the cause may be interesting.

You mention two helm stations but imply an easy disconnect of both and the rudder is still hard. I take it this is either two cable systems or one cable system with helms in series. But, if you've hydrolic, it gets interesting, and if they come to a rack and pinion rather than just an arc or tiller arm, again interesting.

Edited to add: I reread and imagine that a draketail is a power boat. Is the helm aft a tiller? If power, then the rudder is likely a freely hung spade but not necessarily so. Given the progressive nature of the problem, I'd bet mostly on the notion of corrosion between the rudder post and the rudder port. What else have I missed. And back to the original remarks . . .

Assuming the problem is really in the rudder, not the helm controls, then perhaps:

If it's a full keel and rudder, chances are that the weight of the rudder rests on a pintel at the bottom of the rudder that fits into a gudgeon coming back out of the bottom rear of the keel. There may also be another pintel and gudgeon joint, often attached with straps, perhaps just below the propeller aperature.

If it's askeg mounted or completely free spade rudder, then most of the weight is supported about where you see, where the rudder post emerges from the port or someplace like that.

In the latter case, the causes of stiffness are pretty limited: Either the friction at the weight-bearing site is too great, or the shaft is bent a bit inside the pipe. If you get a strap under to lift the rudder a c-hair or so, then you will feel if the problem is in the bearing or not. If it's not in the bearing, then it's either a bent shaft or corrosion between rudder post and the rudder port (below).

In the case of a fully-hung rudder, there may be a problem of allignment between that middle strapped gudgeon and pintel and the rudder port to bottom P&G axis.

A quite seperate common cause if the rudder port is at all long could be corrosion of the rudder post inside the rudder port. This is easier to get at in the yard, but if you must do it in the water, strap the rudder up with something that goes gunnel to gunnel under the boat and can actually lift the rudder a bit. Just a little if it's fully hung, as you don't want to pick it right out of the worm shoe P&G. The rudder will wiggle in the strap. Use a very light shark oil or something environmentally acceptable instead of WD-40, but really you're just going to irrigate from the top, wiggling the rudder as much as the straps will allow, to help it flow down.

With more details, perhaps better ideas.

G'luck

[ 09-25-2005, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Ian McColgin ]

[david quillin]

Good heavens, thats alot of knowledge and information, thanks. More details: Hydraulic steering, both stations go to a single steering tube. I just disconnected the steering tube from the rudder arm to check it. The helm is a wheel also. It is a full keel and rudder, with a steel arm extending aft from the bottom of the keel to hold the bottom of the rudder. "Given the progressive nature of the problem, I'd bet mostly on the notion of corrosion between the rudder post and rudder port..." This sounds right to me. You also mention maybe a bent post- what if I struck something and compressed the rudder up into the rudder post? Bent the metal arm holding the bottom of the post upwards slightly so the post binds? Still, seems corrosion most likely, since rudder is supported from below, can I just unscrew the exposed shaft nuts, lubricate, and retighten? What can I screw up trying this? Thanks again for all the info...

[david quillin]

Forgot to add: A Hooper Island Draketail is a deadrise Chesapeake Bay workboat, 39' long but only 8' beam, 7-1/2 ton displacement.

[Ian McColgin]

It oculd be a combination of things. If you can get under the boat, make sure that the top of the rudder is clear of everything, not just jammed a bit. Then I'd try loosening the nuts.

I'm guessing that the nuts are atop the steering arm, which is most likely keyed to the rudder post. The steering arm most likely embraces the post with two semicircular arms bolted across the back to apply compression. If not keyed, then it may have a pin through the rudder post. Anyway, that can be left alone for a moment.

With two nuts, one can assume that once they are seperated each should back off easily, but there's likely to be some corrosion. I'd irrigate with WD-40 or such first, and make sure there are no locking pins in the nuts. Anyway, with two wrenches it should be easy enough to get the upper loose and up a 1/4" or so. You might have to hang on to the steering arm to raise the lower nut.

Then, if the arm is keyed rather than pinned, you could loosen the compression bolt(s) and very gently tap up from under to raise that. Just a hair.

Fiddle at this point, seeing if you can get some oil under the steering arm and into the rudder port. If this is helping, continue till very free, bring the steering arm back down but not tight - not to jam the motion at all - and lastly the nuts.

It's good to get at this. One of the few problems with hydrolic steering is that it's often so powerful that one can miss problems deeper in the steering system.

G'luck

[david quillin]

Thanks again, more good information. Just to be clear, all I am looking to do is get WD-40 down into the rudder post? It doesn't need any other lubricant, grease, etc?

The steering arm is as you guessed, looks like there is an indent in the rudder post and a screw holding it there, except that it is well above the two large nuts holding the post in place. The nuts are what are applying the pressure.

I would love to get the manufacturers specs on this. Anyone heard of "BUOK" and "RP125" before? Any guesses on manufacturer?

I can't pull the boat out of the water right now to do this, have to do it with her in. The top of the rudder post is above the waterline, so there shouldn't be any leakage issues

[Granville]

we need pictures

[Old Bingey]

A lot of the time corrosion builds up between the rudder tube and the rudder shaft. Sometimes there is a stuffing box either at the bottom or top of the tube to keep water out of the boat and that is where the corrosion usually is worse. It might be possible to loosen the stuffing nut and free it but the best thing is to take the rudder out of the tube and clean the whole shooting match up right, regrease the stuffing and put it back together.

[merlinron]

if the rudder has been jamed up as in hitting something and bending the skeg mounted support up, i would think the two jamb nuts would be up off thier seat at the top of the port and the culprit would be clearly shown.if not, i would suspect corrosion. drill and tap zerk fitting into the top of the rudder pipe and pump a few shots of light silicone grease into the post/tube as friend works the rudder left and right. you can get zerk fittings that come with a threasded on cap and the gun adaptors that make a threaded connection so that the grease gun won't pop off the zerk under the pressure of forcing the grease down the tube.

[ssor]

Why not have the boat hauled and give the whole system a good check. If you are on good terms with the harbor master he can pull the boat at one high tide and put it back at the next. That way you can get answers to all of your questions. You are south of the ice zone so perhaps you don't haul out for the winter. It is good to look at your boat from the outside and below the waterline now and then.

Ross in Bel Air

[bruceS]

Anyone heard of "BUOK" and "RP125" before? Any guesses on manufacturer? It's a Buck Algonquin rudder port on this page: Buck Algonquin (http://www.buckalgonquin.com/Buck_Algonquin/Pages/Steering_Parts_&_Accessories/Page_41.pdf)

[david quillin]

Just a follow up: After trying most all suggestions that could be done with the boat in the water, including taking apart packing nuts, lubricating everything in sight, diving on the rudder to look for anything jamming it, I have come to the conclusion that I must have bumped the bottom at some point and slightly bent the rudder post.

I called a very good boatyard who works on the boat for me (Tolchester Marina), and they said they see that all the time in this type of boat, and the symptoms match that diagnosis. I am taking the boat around too them in a couple of weeks, and they can drop the rudder post and straighten it.

It is a boat, so you never know for sure, but I think that is probably the correct diagnosis. Thanks for all your help...