drop down window plans for wheelhouse

[timfish]

does anyone have plans,orideas for windows that drop down inbetween the wheelhouse wall.Im looking to replace my wheelhouse to something simslar to west coast trollers or older aft cabin eastern rigs.I seem to remember an article in WBM but cant find the issue.

[JimConlin]

I recollect that it was in the article about Grayling, the sardine carrier. The WB index points at iiues #141 and #142. Wasn't there a copper box for the movable sash to lower into?

[Mark Van]

"Yacht Designs" by William Garden has some detailed drawings of drop windows also.

[timfish]

thanks jim.some good ideas there.Im a bit unsure on how waterproof they are.I have two drop down windows in my other boat but there on the side.I dont know if this will work in the front windows .while protecting the electronics.

[C. Ross]

Im a bit unsure on how waterproof they are.

Unless the windows are absolutely waterproof make sure you have good window scuppers and drain them all the way to the bilge. My boat has car-type rolldown windows which are not watertight. The drains ended right on top of the chine logs, which kept them moist and rotted.

[Nordicthug]

Drop window boxes aren't all that hard to make waterproof. I've seen window boxes lined with copper, sheet lead, galvanized sheet iron, plywood, painted canvas, and more recently, fiberglass. All worked well. Personally, I'd tend toward fiberglass as its waterproof, having no seams, cheap, particularly easy to install and doesn't show anyway.

The nicest ones I ever saw were in a Lake Union Dream Boat and were made of soldered copper with copper tubing scuppers also soldered in place. Just beautiful and good as new after over 60 years in service.

The big secret is the scuppers, they must be large enough to drain water out of the box easily and small enough that water doesn't get pounded up into the window in bad weather. 1/2" copper tubing is a good compromise and worls well as its smooth inside reducing the likelihood of plugging up. (They must also be easily cleanable.) All the drop window scuppers I've seen were run to about 5" to 12" above the deck, depending on the size of the vessel, draining onto the deck. The windows themselves should work freely enough that swelling won't jam them and tightly enough that water can't flow easily into the box. Flat brass strips let into the bottom rail of the window frame fit over brass strips let into the inside of the outer casing help accomplish this. Trapped wedges then hold the window frame against the forward window jamb making the windows weather tight.

In my years working on Limit Seiners, Tenders and Power Scows, I saw fewer drop windows in the fronts of pilot houses than on the sides. I saw a few in deck houses, usually in the galley. Properly designed and done in a workmanlike manner, a drop window will give trouble free service for many years. The lift was usually a heavy leather strap, well oiled. I saw lift straps of heavy canvas webbing as well. If memory serves, these were in vessels built during wartime when leather was in short supply. Holes were worked every so often to hang the strap over a screw stub giving an adjustable opening.

Drop windows on a boat are not going to be waterproof, but can easily be made weather tight, relying on the scuppers to keep them water free.

They are very attractive and practical when well done.

Gerry

[C. Ross]

The boxes in my boat were just as Gerry described. Soldered copper boxes and copper tubing. Someone had nicely glassed everything below the window line down to the boxes. But in the first season with the boat I found that the scuppers were clogged, and the drain tubing didn't reach the bilge.

[SV Papillon]

We have a set on the sides of the pilot house on the Northern Glacier, been used up north every winter since 1983. Some good additions were a set of thumb screws with delrin pads to set the opening on the window. Having a counterbalance via weight and pulley or spring will make them much easier to use. They sure look alot cleaner than a fore aft sliding window.

Jake

[timfish]

thank guys ! alot of good info there.Ill see what I can do with the design. when the holidays calm down.

[Nordicthug]

The boxes in my boat were just as Gerry described. Soldered copper boxes and copper tubing. Someone had nicely glassed everything below the window line down to the boxes. But in the first season with the boat I found that the scuppers were clogged, and the drain tubing didn't reach the bilge.


Drains that long are almost certain to clog up, that's why I recommend the drop window scuppers run out of the house and onto the deck the way every one I've ever seen was done. Keep the outlet above the deck coaming. Who wants rainwater running into their bilges if it can be avoided?

I am also talking about boats 58' to 150' long here, big, heavily built boats. Limit Seiners, Anchovy Seiners, Power Scows, Large Tugs, and Steam Schooners where drains to the bilges could run 20' and more. The chance of a drain that long NOT clogging is so remote as to be non-existant.

You want a drain short enough that it can be cleared with a piece of 8 ga. copper ground wire.

Gerry

[C. Ross]

Gerry
I didn't read your post completely and certainly wasn't trying to disagree. My point was to make sure that even if you think the windows are tight, prepare for leaks and get water outside safely, not just halfway. Of course deck is better than bilge.

[Bill Perkins]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc37b3127cceb29ad20bd9bd00000025100BcOGbFq3bsf Tim; here's a detail from Chapelle's Boatbuilding .

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc37b3127cceb29ad20bd9bd00000020100BcOGbFq3bsf

[Nordicthug]

Gerry
I didn't read your post completely and certainly wasn't trying to disagree. My point was to make sure that even if you think the windows are tight, prepare for leaks and get water outside safely, not just halfway. Of course deck is better than bilge.

I was trying (not all that well) to clarify my post. Different sizes of boat are going to require differing approaches. My experience is mainly repairing large heavy workboats. Smaller, lighter yacht situations will need smaller, daintier solutions. And like I said before, drop windows will never be watertight. Weather tight is as much as can be reasonably expected. Then cleverness and trickery come into their own, figuring how to keep the leakage to a minimum and the run-off controlled and out of the way.

Writing stuff instead of talking face to face is difficult for me, I do much better when we can sort things out immediately and explain the myriad tiddly details. A quick line drawing or two on coffee stained Denny's napkins sure makes it easier, too.

Think how much fun its gonna be when we can have a two (or six) way real time conversation with giggling, shouting, and graphics via the 'pooter.

I regret sometimes being as old as I am and I'm not going to be able to see some of the cool new stuff that will show up after my stiffening carcass has been heaved overboard. On the other hand I've seen some marvels become commonplace in my short career in this vale of tears.

Gerry

[timfish]

thanks bill I like the idea of spring loaded gaskets..This boat is still a working fish dragger gerry 44ft. long.Its in need of a new wheelhouse and I want to make a more traditional rounded front and extend it foreward about 2ft.The boat was made at the gamage shipyard in maine heavily built and worth investing in.

[ron ll]

The nine drop down windows on "Snoose" were built in 1943 and they don't leak. Honest. And they have been drenched in green water many times. There are no "boxes" other than the cedar cavity wall of the pilot house with solid blocking on the sides and bottom of each window cavity and each one has a 1/2" weep hole to the outside at the bottom. They are held in any position by teak wedges and when fully up have a bronze flat strip at the bottom of the window that overlaps a bronze flat lip on the sill. The two corner windows (one shown lowered in this photo) are actually curved frames, altho the glass is flat. I'll try to remember to get some detail closeup photos if I can.
http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/starbord.jpg

[C. Ross]

I do much better when we can sort things out immediately and explain the myriad tiddly details. A quick line drawing or two on coffee stained Denny's napkins sure makes it easier, too.

Think how much fun its gonna be when we can have a two (or six) way real time conversation with giggling, shouting, and graphics via the 'pooter.

Gerry

This is exactly why I've decided to stop lurking and start posting. I know so little about this stuff, and I am learning so much from you guys. The best way for me to learn is to try to explain something and maybe get it wrong. So if I messed up the Denny's napkin drawing a little Gerry, next time coffee is on me. (Apologies for hijacking the thread.)

[Bill Perkins]

There are also good old fashoined workboat details in Harry Sucher's "Simplified Boatbuilding ".The framework would be sheathed with vertical T&G 1by4.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc39b3127cceb2bd3d70eedd00000026100BcOGbFq3bsf

[Eric D]

Gerry, thanks for the input.

Timfish, thanks for posting the question. I have never seen this style, only the sliders. I sure like these...Hummm, wonder with today's goops/rubbers etc, what could be done to make them even better...

i would agree, draining onto the deck has to be infinitely better than into the bilge.

Those drawings posted are great, any more?

[rbgarr]

Timfish,

Is the boat you're talking about the one in your avatar? It looks like the front of the deck house is slanted aft, not vertical. Will your new cabin design be vertical around the side toward the bow? That would make drop windows work and drain better, wouldn't it?

[timfish]

hi rbgarr,yes my boat is the one in the avatar.My new cabin will be vertical and rounded .I also plan to extend the front foreward about 3ft.and raise the top about 10".Im trying to gai a better visability over the bow and some more wheelhouse space.I will be draining the windows onto the fore and side decks.IM also going to have a sliding door onthe stbd side.IM also thinking of plywood and foamcore construction,vacum bagging,and sheathing it all in epoxy and combination biaxial cloth.

[Bill Perkins]

Even though you choose to go with modern construction , I think you could gain allot by looking at the profiles of the big work boats in Sucher's book . The designers or builders of the boats he selected had a good sense of proportion and propriety.