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View Full Version : I hate "Christian" businesses.



PatCox
12-11-2007, 04:24 PM
Once there was a time when people were happy to practice their own religion, but wouldn't think of poking their nose into someone else's; it was impolite to go asking about someone else's. It was looked down on to be the type who would only patronize businesses owned by your co-religionists, a bigoted thing to do (its part of what people didn't like about jews, "too clannish" people would say).

But now you see these businesses with their little fish sign on their advertisements, painted on their vehicles, on their business cards, or even more open boasts about being a "christian business" or such.

Its unamerican, an invitation and aid to discrimination and wrong in every way. Its a sign of the intolerance of radical fundamentalists and a sign this country is being divided by the intolerant.

Figh, a pox on the practice.

There's two ways to make someone wear a stigma marking them as an outsider, unacceptable, a second class citizen. One way is to make them wear an armband so you can see the mark of disapproval on them. The other is to start wearing the armband of approval yourself, so you can see its absence on them.

Paul Pless
12-11-2007, 04:26 PM
so how do you feel about mormons

skuthorp
12-11-2007, 04:28 PM
Hmm, I wondered if there was an athiest graphic symbol and found this
http://www.helsinki.fi/~ssyreeni/atheist/no-ghost-c-06.en.html

Paul Pless
12-11-2007, 04:31 PM
so would this be an appropriate symbol for agnostics

http://www.natech-inc.com/names/help/Lap%20Help/Question%20Mark.JPG

or maybe this one for those fearful of making the wrong choice:D:D

http://razorland55.free.fr/friend01/Question_Mark2.jpg

Ian McColgin
12-11-2007, 04:34 PM
I would be a handy way for people like me to decline doing business with people whose warped religion I dismiss, but so many of them, like the Buck Knife Company, make great stuff. It's sort of like how so many great brewers - thing of the Busch and Coors families - seem to run to far right if not downright fascist politics. If I did business with those I find politically palitable, I'd do prescious little.

I recognize that the latter day fundamentalists have made an about face from rejecting society and now seek to take it all over. I know that the fish do not indicate an angler. But I think in the long run tolerant engagement trumps the alternative and I don't mind folk wearing their purported values on their logos.

Paul Pless
12-11-2007, 04:41 PM
Pat, do you feel the same way towrds companies like Chik-Fil-A, that you know are owned and operated by Christians in part because they are closed on Sundays and on Christian holidays?

LeeG
12-11-2007, 04:46 PM
I can't patronize them because I don't pronounce the "A" properly.
Why would I buy chicken from a place called Chikfilluh?

Pierce Nichols
12-11-2007, 04:47 PM
It's sort of like how so many great brewers - thing of the Busch and Coors families - seem to run to far right if not downright fascist politics.

By 'great' do you mean 'very large'? Because I don't see how anyone could describe the horse urine that those companies mislabel beer as 'great' in the sense of 'very good'.

Edited for worse than usual grammar.

MiddleAgesMan
12-11-2007, 04:52 PM
I have made it my practice to grab my wallet and hang on tight whenever someone trying to sell me something breaks the ice with a religious reference--God has been very good to me (and if you buy my junk I'm sure he'll be good to you too.)

In my experience every peddler who uses his religion to help him sell something turns out to be a thief and a liar.

PatCox
12-11-2007, 05:01 PM
No, Paul, I have no problem with chick-fila, I never saw them doing that branding thing about it. Thats there business if they choose to close. I go to a real nice Mexican restaurant that closes Sunday too.

David G
12-11-2007, 05:07 PM
As the spouse of a Unitarian Universalist minister, I prefer this symbol:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fs earch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dcoexist%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3D mss%26ei%3DUTF-8%26ni%3D20%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501%26b%3D161&w=400&h=369&imgurl=www.carryabigsticker.com%2Fimages%2Fcoexist _TS_logo.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carryabigsticker.com%2Fcoexi st_shirt.htm&size=92kB&name=coexist_TS_logo.jpg&p=coexist&type=jpeg&no=168&tt=18,637&oid=666257bcbb196ddc&ei=UTF-8

Or, for a more personal version:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fs earch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dcoexist%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3D mss%26ei%3DUTF-8%26ni%3D20%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501%26b%3D41&w=500&h=375&imgurl=static.flickr.com%2F2355%2F2053824512_3c151 16bb6_m.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F868782 0%40N05%2F2053824512%2F&size=191kB&name=2053824512_3c15116bb6.jpg&p=coexist&type=jpeg&no=52&tt=18,637&oid=8683396127ce0420&fusr=ez3k1al&tit=Jessica%2C+Coexist&hurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F868782 0%40N05%2F&ei=UTF-8&src=p

Keith Wilson
12-11-2007, 05:11 PM
As the spouse of a Unitarian Universalist minister,You too? So am I. Maybe we should start a thread for Unitarian jokes!

ljb5
12-11-2007, 05:55 PM
I buy tons of climbing, skiing, hiking and other such outdoor gear from Sierratradingpost.com.

They put a small statement about their Christian beliefs in their catalogs. I'm not crazy about it, but it doesn't bother me much.

Mostly, I think it's amusing that their idea of a "Christianity" is a no-hassle returns department and exceptionally low sale prices.

Flying Orca
12-11-2007, 06:00 PM
I've got a really funny series of "prank with a point" calls on a CD from a Left Coast bunch who called themselves "International Secular Atavism". They called up this garage that had a fish symbol in its Yellow Pages(tm) ad and got the guy to confirm on tape that they gave a discount to, er, fellow travelers.

Then they called back and asked if they could have the same discount even though they were Hindu. The garage's (Christian) owner had a pronounced South Asian accent, and listening to him try to justify his religious discrimination was pretty hilarious. I should add that such discrimination is against the law in Canada.

The funniest call was the third one, though, where the caller told the owner he had engine trouble and wanted to bring the car in, then said he thought it might be "some kind of Holy Spirit problem or something like that... do you guys specialize in that?" After a few minutes of this sort of thing the owner realized it was the same voice from the first couple of calls and hung up.

Might not be everyone's cup of ambush comedy, but I certainly found it amusing. :D

Nanoose
12-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Its unamerican, ... Its a sign of the intolerance

Unamerican?!? :eek: "...liberty and justice for all..." ?? Or do you mean for everyone but those displaying the sign of the icthus?

Whose the intolerant one in this picture, Pat? :rolleyes:

WX
12-11-2007, 06:40 PM
http://www.helsinki.fi/~ssyreeni/atheist/pictures/atheism4

:D

Bob Cleek
12-11-2007, 06:54 PM
Reminds me of a boss I once had eons ago. He was a sales manager for a marine communications company that will remain nameless (but it did have ties to the intelligence community, if you know what I mean.) He'd actually research his sales prospects and customers and figure out what religion they were, if they were religious at all, whether they had kids, whether they were going through a divorce... whatever. This guy was the ultimate chameleon. If the customer was Jewish, Harry, who was himsellf a secular Jew, would figure out if they were Orthodox, Reformed or cultural and drop in vague little references that would have the customer believing they had that in common with Harry. If they were Catholic, Harry would drop the name of the customer's parish pastor like he'd known him for years. If the customer was a "player," Harry would just happen to have a filthy joke ready, or a funny porno postcard in his vest pocket. If the guy was going through a messy divorce, Harry would be getting divorced himself. And so on. A master salesman... or bull**** artist, depending on how you look at it.

Christian businesses? They'd be sitting ducks for old Harry. Wonder what happened to him. Must be long dead by now.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-11-2007, 06:59 PM
Yeah and he went to hell..:D:D:D

Bob Adams
12-11-2007, 07:31 PM
If you hate them, don't patronize them. Simple. Free enterprise. No big deal.

George Jung
12-11-2007, 07:39 PM
If you hate them, don't patronize them. Simple. Free enterprise. No big deal.


Sheesh, if you're going to be reasonable about it, just forget the whole thing!

So Un-PC (PatCox) of you....

brad9798
12-11-2007, 07:50 PM
I remember the start-bellied Sneetches ... then they got confused as to who was to supposed to have a star and who wat not ... then ... was the star cool to have, or not? Seuss was so confusing! ;)

Oh, and about 40 years ago on Start Trek, the guys with the white and black faces were discriminating against and trying to destroy the guys with the black and white faces ... they were mirror images.

"can't we all just get along?"

Figment
12-11-2007, 07:52 PM
I agree with the essence of your rant, Pat, but most of the time they're just shooting themselves in the ass by branding themselves like that.
Take solace in the fact that customers who would use religion as a qualifier are just BEGGING to be taken for a ride by guys like Cleek's old friend Harry.

At least the business who brand themselves in that way give everyone fair warning. On the other hand, the customers of that mindset are more infuriating. Over the years I've had a handful of customers INSIST that I cut them significant discounts (always after the services were rendered, btw) because "we're a christian organization!!!!" Another guy who was way way waaay behind on his rent wanted me to cut him a break because "I see your father in church every sunday".
Wonderful. Think you can recite the lord's prayer in the time it takes me to call the police to come and straighten this out ya effing freeloader?

Keith Wilson
12-11-2007, 07:57 PM
If a business does good work or sells good stuff at a fair prices, I don't give a damn whether or not thay have a little fish on their logo (with or without legs), or a star of David, or a star and cresent, or a statue of Ganesh in the office, or a little Buddhist shrine with candles. Why should I? OTOH, it they do lousy work or act obnoxious, I don't care what religion they are either. Why should I?

LeeG
12-11-2007, 08:25 PM
Following the trail of Jeff Gannon/Guckert I came around to a Republican fundraising company that got started with direct mailing. In their mission statement is a reference to the teachings of Jesus. Folks sure would be hysterical if they came upon a business that has as it's mission statement an accordance with the teachings in the Koran.

James McMullen
12-11-2007, 08:44 PM
I agree with you, Pat. I think they advertise themselves with the little fish thingie in order to separate us all into "us" and "them" categories. (An over-simplified dichotomy perfectly suited to those over-simplified minds.) It is a subtle form of bigotry. . . .

Hwyl
12-11-2007, 08:52 PM
I had an airport car service for a number of years. Every year we'd get a start up who either beat us in price by 5 bucks or had a new and highly mortgaged stretch limo. They generally lasted less than a year, but we'd always lose some customers then gain them back.

One year, a particularly obnoxious guy started a taxi service, and we heard he was bad mouthing our business, we lost more than the usual cheapskate customers. He went out of business after a few months, I think he was found ignoring the rules in Logan airport and thrown out. When we started to get our customers back, we found out that he was a regular at the local Catholic church and the attendees had been told to use his "wonderful new service'. Christian ethics indeed.

Bruce Hooke
12-11-2007, 08:52 PM
It seems to me it is worth thinking about some of the specific reasons why someone might announce their faith as part of their business:

1. They simply believe that it is important to spread the word about what they see as the true path to salvation...or however they see their religion. While this may seem a overbearing to some (it is rarely pleasant being on the receiving end of someone's proselytizing), it is hard to argue that much with it. Freedom of speech is a good thing and we can usually choose not to do business with someone if we don't want to.

2. Because they believe it will cause customers to trust them more. Maybe, but should religion be used in that way?

3. Because they believe it will attract customers of a similar faith. Again, is this really a proper use of religion? I believe it's common in many parts of the world. As Cleek's story points out, shrewed salesmen have always looked for ways to make a connection with their customers. Religion is just one more way to do that, but as his and Hwyl's stories also illustrate, it can get pretty crass. It can also encourage people to stick to their "tribe" and not make contact with that other "tribe" down the street, which is probably not such a good thing.

glenallen
12-11-2007, 08:54 PM
Sheesh, if you're going to be reasonable about it, just forget the whole thing!

So Un-PC (PatCox) of you....

Pat does not really "hate" the bastids, George, he merely despises them and considers them a self-serving, greedy pain in the arse, like most of us do.
You better hone your moderating skills or we'll replace you in a general election with someone else, like Joe, or erster, or Honda-Shadow. Are you scared yet?:D

bamamick
12-11-2007, 09:17 PM
You hit the nail on the head.

Mickey Lake

brad9798
12-11-2007, 09:32 PM
Sorry, Patcox, but there was never a time when one clown kept their nose out of other clowns' business/religion/etc.!

We all preach individualism ... but then we seem to be disgusted about folks that do practice it.

Reminds me of a time at my company three years ago ... I noticed an interesting trend in the coat closet first thing ...

Thus, I spent the entire day talking about individuality, individual tastes, indentities, how nice it is for so many of us to not care what trends are ... or how other think, act, or dress.

OF COURSE, all 25 of them boasted of their fierce individualism, unique styles, etc.

At about 5pm, at least 20 folks went to said coat closet and got out their 98% IDENTICAL BLACK leather coats ...

Thank goodness I had a navy pea coat!

I find it refreshing that some stores would show their indiviuality rather than bitch about it in a phony way like 98% of the world.

In our quest to be different, we have become clones ... grrrrrrrrrrr

:mad:

Ian McColgin
12-11-2007, 09:38 PM
Danged Unitarians. Last Halloween they burned a question mark on my dock.

Rational Root
12-12-2007, 02:47 AM
As much as I dispair of people who run their lives based on their imaginary friends, I have a dilema..

1) I would try not to discriminate against someone because of any other disability. Why should I discriminate against anyone who lacks the ability to reason.

Should the constitution have gaurenteed freedom FROM religion ?

martin schulz
12-12-2007, 03:01 AM
Time to sweep the business people out of the temple again!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
12-12-2007, 04:38 AM
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves.

http://www.users.waitrose.com/~wrs/moneychangers.jpg
William Roberts

http://www.spaightwoodgalleries.com/Media/Old_Masters/Durer/Durer_SP_JC_Cleans_Temple_.jpg
Dürer...

martin schulz
12-12-2007, 05:35 AM
Durer...

You forgot the "ü" in "Dürer" Mr. Kreig-Bennett ;)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
12-12-2007, 07:12 AM
Found the Rembrandt I was looking for:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a332/moiv/Rembrandt_Christ_Driving_The_Money_.jpg

A wonderful picture.

CK 17
12-12-2007, 10:35 AM
Because they believe it will attract customers of a similar faith. .

And finally we get to the real reason--at least in modern times--to post a jesus fish. It's sole purpose is to add to the bottom line.

I just finshed a 2 year stay in Georgia and they were everywhere. Contractors--until recently unlicensed and notoriously incompetent were especially fond of using them.

I always respected Chic-fa-lay because they held the values without using it to atract more business.

Nanoose
12-12-2007, 11:21 AM
Why should I discriminate against anyone who lacks the ability to reason.



Well said, RR. ;)

My thoughts exactly. :D