"Rules" for being a good crew [Archive]

C. Ross

11-25-2007, 12:01 PM

I am introducing my family to boating, having spent my youth in trailered outboards, cartopped boats, canoes, small sailboats, etc.

At first I tried to teach Everything and accomplished Nothing.

After some unhappy cruises I got smarter. So for friends I just give basic safety rules, and try to figure out who wants to just ride and who wants to help. The people who just want to ride typically make unreliable crew anyway, or they have a conversion moment where they want to pitch in. The people who "help" without knowing are usually just dangerous, so I tell them I welcome all crew and if they want to help I'll give 'em a job.

So if someone I knew was invited to go boating and asked me what to expect and what to do, I'd say...

-a cartopped boat heading out for a days fishing (at anchor)?

Agree ahead of time on what kind of fishing you're going to do. Offer to bring beer, ice, water and sandwiches in a cooler. Don't bring anything else but your fishing gear. Be willing to lift stuff. Assume the boat owner has taken the boat on and off the car a bunch of times, and already knows the easiest way. Use the head right before you leave. Handle the anchor.

-a week on a motor cruiser on canals or a river?
Only bring enough clothes to fill a gym bag, not a suitcase. Bring books, sunscreen, ipod, and somethng rainproof. In the same gym bag. Lighten up -- it's close quarters. Offer to help, and follow directions exactly. Offer to help with the cost of the trip, but don't leave it vague. Do any cleaning or cooking task -- it's pretty much the same as on shore. Ask the host to show you how all plumbing works. If you're female, bring bathing suits in number and style proportionate to the weather, expected social relationships, and how cute you are. And no heels. (OK that applies to men, too....)

Ian McColgin

11-25-2007, 12:28 PM

In a sense, the question is backwards. The captain makes the crew good or bad by his or her organization, clarity, and insight into how to help diverse people learn and enjoy.

Strictly speaking, a romp becomes a charter if the guests are required to bring food or potables. Most of the time even in the event of an accident and subsequent investigation, this is not raised to further trouble the boat owner so long as the guest brought whatever unasked out of good will or at the owner's suggestion brought only for self-consumption. So, the first thing a Captain should do to ensure good crew is make sure the crew knows what to bring in the way of clothing and supply.

Each type of excursion requires different needs for crew activity. For example, unless the Captain is not planning to ski, at least one of the participants (two others minimum) must be able to drive the boat. With that exception, most crew learn most easily from the helm, really very easy but gives a reason for the Captain to be teaching all the while - like judging relative motion with that boat over there, getting used to look around and behind, and keeping a straight wake. The more comprehensivly a person can learn from the helm, the more he or she will master other deck skills.

On all boats, deck skills for anchoring and mooring alongside a dock should be acted out before needed. The thoughtful Captain will train each crewmember in a discreet skill per day.

On sailboats, one might carry the notion of one discreet skill as far as practical. Certainly refrain from expecting green crew to be able to cast off the jib sheet, then running back, then trim new runner and finally trim the jib first day out.

Very few boats in the normal yacht sizes (up to say 30 tons) cannot be single-handed. The Captain taking out green crew in the listed examples really should be able to single-hand. It's the only way to keep green hands both busy and safe.

G'luck

paladin

11-25-2007, 12:50 PM

all the above.....my personal rules were arranged so that I was single handing no matter how many were aboard.....aside from that.....I set the rules of engagement before hand, limiting the amount of alcohol consumed in a 24 hour period and no smoking below decks...shoes at all times (soft of course).....what I did not expect from some otherwise sociably educated adults, was that once offshore off came the clothes...all of them...and neither sex was built for it.......
and a similar incident when I was asked by a rather good looking well endowed lady if I chartered my boat....and she wanted to catch up with some friends she had missed......turns out it was a sun worshipping organization......she stayed aboard for her 3 week vacation and I was the envy of all the crews around St Thomas and English Harbor.....:D

Wild Wassa

11-25-2007, 03:08 PM

Basic rules for crew transitioning to advanced crewing.

Rule 1. Take no ****t. Do not be a victim of your Skipper ever. Show no fear.

You are a very valuable item on a boat don't ever forget it. You are the Skipper's co-pilot. Tell the Skipper that you are ... to make sure that they actually get it.

Any Skipper who doesn't offer the crew the helm from time to time ... is not a Skipper to be with and as crew we don't have to except the helm unless we feel like steering or when we are ready. I personally like the helm when crossing bars.

Skippers aren't that valuable. Skippers who are not on the water because they can't keep reliable crew are a dime a dozen. Do not waste your time with ordinary Skippers. Mediocre Skippers make up the majority of Skippers. Remind yourself why so many boats are permanently on their moorings or not moving in boat trailer parks ... it gets back to the same old story.

Good crew pick up a ride every day of the week. The hardest thing about boating for good crew is knocking back the good rides. Many Skippers can't keep their crew and feel like they're victims of their crews. Skippers do you have reliable crew? ... I have too many offers of rides, it gets embarassing.

Do not waste you time on boats that are badly maintained ... bring the boat up to speed yourself if something is wrong. Hot crew trim boats in more ways than one.

Do not waste your time on boats that have badly functioning or antequated hardware. Tell the Skipper exactly what Harken gear you want and what you favouite rope cover is for a particular station ... and when you want it. More than likely your Skipper will not have heard of the ropes types that you want to tryout. Get your Skipper to open an account (for you to use) at the chandlery.

Be able to take it on the chin when the Skipper loses it because they failed to see the end of their nose. The crew is there to be blamed for a Skipper's mood swings and erratic eyesight, consistant with Rule 1 ... to the Skipper he needs you as his/her second set of eyes but you know that you are actually the Skipper's first set ... or for most his/her only set.

Learn the Int Col Regs ... the regs Skippers pretent to know.

Learn the rules of the road in you local waterways and know any changes to the waterways ordinances ... surprise your Skipper, test them often on 'your' knowledge of local ordinances.

Watch every boat, update your Skipper regularly to their positions. Calculate the interception angles well before the Skipper gets it wrong. Calculate the closure rates well before your Skipper needs to crash tack ... always at the advanced crew's disgression of course.

The Skipper will loudly tell you all the lifts that he/her is finding and taking ... then tell the Skipper that they have taken far to much just before they have and let them have it when they do ... say, "I warned you Skipper." Call all the puffs especially the big ones but save a few really big ones for yourself ... if your Skipper is being less than helpful and not steering the boat to where you want.

You are the movable ballast, act like it ... the unmovable ballast down at the back of the boat can be totally relied on.

Have advanced first aid qualifications ... Fryer's Balsam is the juce that keeps wet sticking plaster sticking to your accident prone Skipper's shins when they have injured themselves ... in that last big puff that only you reacted to safely.

Know radio proceedure, know it well ... practice by making crackling noises into you hand. Then ask the Skipper what did they just hear? ... what ever it was it sounded really important?

Aquire and keep you powerboat licence up to date. Carry it with you at all times ... a great source of helpful fun.

Have all your own gear, don't ever leave it on a Skipper's boat. Always have it with you, in the car. I use my own GPS to keep my Skippers on track.

Advanced crew don't start rigging boats. As rock stars we just walk onto boats. Then we tweak and untangle the fouled lines because the Skipper started rigging 'our' boat ... Skippers run the basic shore errands to save our time while we fix rigging problems ... but we always take care of the documentation on race days.

Learn the systems on the boat. Learn them better than the Skipper thinks that they do ... it is the crew who solves the problems, ask any Skipper, Skippers ... in fact, ask yourselves.

This advice above is just a start to advanced crewing and by the way ... just because a Skipper spends tens of thousands of dollars on his/her boat does not give him/her the right not to be told by the advanced crew, that they need to lift their game ... or be allowed to run their boat badly.

If I stopped telling my Skippers what to do, they would know that something on the boat is wrong and they would lose focus and perform less than at their optimum ... I can't afford for that to happen to my advanced crew status.

Why is the wheel or the tiller down at the back of the boat Skippers? ... to keep you right out of the way, so the crew can get on with driving the boat properly.

Warren.

BETTY-B

11-25-2007, 04:35 PM

I make sure to let green people know that when we come up to dock, I am going to stick it there. Then they can easily step off with the line. Dont go scrambling and jumping for the dock because it looks like we are coming in bad. We arnt. And even is I misjudge the current and get pushed off the dock, I'll stick it the next time. There should be no panic ridden movements going on. It's dangerous and just plain looks bad.

Oh and dont throw lines to well meaning people on the dock. Smile and tell them "we got it. Thanks.". Unless, of course, I tell them to.

In the last few years I have made sure to tell people that if I am yelling, it's not personal. It's just to be heard.

On the other hand, I used to have a friend who had a giant schooner. He was so quiet and just plain wouldnt tell you what he wanted that he would finally get all pissed at everyone for not reading his mind. I know of several instances that he was dang lucky to have experienced people aboard.

DAN

The Bigfella

11-25-2007, 05:10 PM

"This boat weighs the same as a semi-trailer (22 wheeler). Do not get between it and the dock"

Concordia...41

11-25-2007, 05:17 PM

Ian: Absolutely. A good skipper will make sure the crew is safe, has assignments that match their abilities/knowledge levels, and make sure they feel like they are contributing.

Potential crew: Don't be afraid to ask, "What do you need?" "Can I help with _________?" It's hard to explain how to be helpful and not in the way at the same time. :D I don't know much, but I watch. You don't have to know anything about boats, to see when someone could use a second pair of hands. Whether we're putzing up the canal and someone needs the salt shaker for their eggs or we're ****-fighting a tangled reef line in 15' seas and they need someone on the helm so another man can go forward, I watch, ask, and stand ready to help.

Warren: I trust that was tongue and cheek? :eek:

rbgarr

11-25-2007, 05:35 PM

Warren: I trust that was tongue and cheek? :eek:

That's why I left out any question about crewing in a race.:D

Wild Wassa

11-25-2007, 06:17 PM

"That's why I left out any question about crewing in a race.:D" ... I noticed that, good crew notice everything.

Margo and rbgarr, Goodmorning Skippers ... another guideline ... always greet the Skippers nicely, it might be the only change that the crew gets.

You saw elements of truth staring you right in your eyes in my posting having both been racing crew ... I know you did. What you have to be able to do now as Skippers, is to take a step back.

rbgarr, I just thought that there had to have been a typo for you leaving from the questionair, essential crewing elements for racing crews ... so I upped it to 'advanced racing crews' to compensate.

I hope I was more than helpful.

Warren.

David Tabor (sailordave)

11-25-2007, 06:33 PM

I agree that the skipper has a lot to do w/ how good the crew is.

Well, when I used to have access to two decent sized boats (43'ketch/44'yawl) I would quite often have a number of newbies on board. Rules were that 4 people were required to take the boat out. I'd sent out a mass email and get anywhere from 3-8 YESSES... Sometimes they had little or no sailing experience.
When we got on board I'd try to have already checked things over, help get food/drinks stowed and then have a crew meeting. Talk about the boat, what to watch out for (boom, winches, lines) and experience, can you swim, do you have medical issues (friend was diabetic). And I'd ALWAYS say, if I ask you to do something and you don't feel comfortable.... TELL ME. IT's not a big deal.

Off we'd go. I'd helm the boat out of the slip and the narrow channel and again when we returned, but the rest of the 3,4, or 5 hours sailing I might only take the helm 15-20 min. And then it was usually to show someone how to tweak things. Numerous times I had people (usually women!) say how patient I was w/ them. Key thing is to put people in the position of participating and learning, but first and foremost HAVING FUN!

As far as being a good crew.... Well, I try to make myself useful. TRY not to point out how inept the skipper is at something unless I can do so tactfully and not let the boat get into a dangerous situation. Be willing to do things and jump to!

Bernadette

11-25-2007, 06:38 PM

in my experience, i have found that the crew need to be included in everything and anything. from cleaning the toilet to navigating. from helming in perfect conditions to calling up other vessels requesting weather updates in foul conditions. i wont allow foul language, rude jokes, unnecesary nudity, smoking at all and alcohol consumption on a passage. i wont tolerate being taken for granted and the cash cow for lame crew. i enjoy crew asking as many questions as they consider necessary to understand how we are to get and keep the boat moving safely. and then i will fill in their knowledge accordingly. some of the things ive taught crew is how to splice, the way to read the water's surface for tell tale signs of botom contours, why we sail with diffferent sail combinations and basic navigation.
having done and said all of that, just please!!!... let me get out on my own....!!! its so much more enjoyable and fulfilling!!!

rbgarr

11-25-2007, 07:24 PM

WW,

It wasn't a typo. The topic of racing crew duties have been covered by other posts and threads. I'd hoped to start this thread for the people new to boating who start another way, nor focus on what the skipper should do, mainly because the new person probably doesn't see the experience through the skipper's eyes.

As far as racing is concerned, a person new to sailing has enough trouble understanding things like where the wind is coming from, why boats are all sailing around in circles while horns are sounding (pre-start maneuvers), where the starting line and course buoys are, why boats can't sail straight into the wind, etc. Racing crew duties that you listed are just a bit advanced for what I was trying to get at here, as you said, and I imagine that a new person reading them would have trouble knowing what much of it meant.

An op piece in the latest issue of ProBoat takes the marine industry to task for focusing on marketing new boat sales to the current market populace versus attracting new people to boating, i.e., enlarging the market of potential buyers, most of whom start by going out with friends in the situations mentioned above and only then becoming owners, almost always of used boats.

The question about deliveries I added because of the number of times the question seems to be asked on fora of different stripes and the rise of delivery or cruise opportunities as organized by SailOPO http://www.sailopo.com/ or by manufacturers.

All the responses have been interesting. The one about fishing was illuminating for me because I don't fish from boats. It never occurred to me that agreeing on the type of fish to go after would be an issue, but I can see how that would arise!

Wild Wassa

11-25-2007, 08:35 PM

Deliveries.

The precedent has now been set in the UK just recently, that delivery Skippers and their crews must have their own insurance against loss and damage to the boat when they are doing the delivery. The insurance company of an owner who lost his boat, did not cover the Delivery Skipper or his volunteer crew because the boat was not under the supervision of the owner when the yacht went down.

That is from is an excellent article in a past issue of Yachting Monthly about a delivery skipper in the UK who had a volunteer crew damaged and sink a yacht from crewing inexperience. If I remember correctly the crew failed to keep an adequate lookout when on the helm (which is against Col Regs) and both he and the Skipper were found to be liable for negligence. Both were sued for a lot of money by the owners insurance company. It was in parts of a million pounds for each claim against each of them. Not nice.

I left the copy of Yachting Monthly in a doctor's surgery because his magazine pile was really pathetic and needed a lift. I could always ask for the copy of Yachting Monthly back, if anyone is particularly interested in the article.

I was asked to work with the delivery Skipper Ian Hoey even after I brought the mast down on his Seawind 10000, but after reading that article when it first came out, and after damaging Ian's boat through no fault of my own apart from being on the helm (it wouldn't be nice proving it wasn't my fault in court though) when a squal hit us, my insurance as a commercal crew would not be worth doing the occassional delivery at only $2.50US per nautical mile. The article showed that being commercial or being even a volunteer crew, just helping doing a delivery, could be just as financially damaging to either sailor if things went wrong.

Here in Oz we must have insurance to race boats, even for the smallest of dinghies ... causing significant damage means more than just coming off the water during a race, it equates to who is liable for the damage. That incurs a protest to find who was at fault for causing the significant damage and who are the claims against, after the findings.

I recently assessed a claim against a Skipper for causing significant damage ... my assessment happened straight after the so called collision. The damage was grubby showing age and not fully caused by the event in question, I think. The insurance case is still ongoing and has potential to cause grief to an innocent person ... although their insurance company will cover them. The repair costs being claimed are totally out of proportion to the damage that I assessed ... by several thousands of dollars for what was insignificant damage.

Insurance is a real issue, one not to get wrong. He who has the deepest pockets always pays. So crews be warned, even for a volunteer helping with a delivery.

Warren.

Nanoose

11-25-2007, 08:53 PM

Crew must bring eats.....and drinks! :D

Wild Wassa

11-25-2007, 10:03 PM

Since rbgarr is looking for basic guidelines for crewing, then all potential crew? ... let's just start with learning about the boat.

... and being on the Wooden Boat Forum ... seeing wood will make you all feel very comfortable. So what is the one
thing on this boat in both photographs that all new crew can easily recognize?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Woodenboat.jpg

... did you say wood?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/WoodenBoat2.jpg

Yes it was the wood, very good. See boats can be easy to get the hang of here on the Wooden Boat Forum. I'm of the opinion that if you are going to crew, do sail training and race for a couple of years ... then everything about boating will eventually be experienced and your overall boat handling skills will be more than adequate.

I have my own boats including a yacht, which I have a share in with a Mate. I started crewing because that is where the real art of boating lies. Skippering, well anyone can be a Skipper ... but being the driver of the boat, being the crew ... is the real skill of boating and you take the helm often anyway.

Sitting up at the back only, is totally boring ... making the boat work well, keeping her flat, calling the tactics, doing the navigating and keeping the Skipper well focussed and relaxed and doing the spotting and trimming and the boat prep are the best parts of boating ... all said as a totally dedicated crew.

If you are going to learn boating ... go and do the courses. Sailing courses, basic boat handling, powerboat courses, blue water courses, navigation or whatever is readily available. I've a few Yachting Australia TLs and regret not one hour spent in the classroom ... including doing wilderness first aid ... but I now need to learn more meteorlogy to better my crewing.

I still Skipper boats but Skippering is just too easy compared to tidy crewing. I'll take the helm in long races like the Marlay but only as crew doing my shift to give the Skipper a break ... and helming to and from the course, or skooting around in the safety boat doing dinghy rescues, that keeps me happy. I think I know where I fit in with boating and what suits me ... crewing is very satisfying, especially when the Skipper says stuff like, "we couldn't have sailed the boat better technically." That's when I know I've done my job well for my Skipper.

Our spinnaker jibes yesterday were hot. The yacht lost no speed what so ever going through the turns. Each jibe took about 4 seconds to when the kite was full again and trimmed ... I pride myself on being good crew and I count thing off in my head. At 1 second at the start of the rounding the brace is pulled hard on, at 2 seconds, the sheet is reset at 3 seconds, the pole is released and brought across and clipped onto the brace and old brace is let go and the beak is clipped to the mast and at 4 seconds the Skipper hands me the new sheet and that sheet is trimmed pronto - then "OK Skipper, kite's now full-on." Then the Skipper will say something like, "Tell me if you can't hold it and we will drop it." ... we never drop it. We have our well tuned routines. Working as one.

Warren.

paladin

11-25-2007, 11:10 PM

I like to be in control and do "precision aerial maneuvers" in an airplane, but folks/guests along for the ride probably wouldn't appreciate it.....
Same with the boat....nice, easy slow sailing, no loud noises, reduce sail if necessary, a nip late at night in the cockpit.......come back with no scratches......if someone wants to transit the Panama canal or the Straits of Magellan, then I'm Cap'n Bligh and watch everything because I don't want my boat to have scraped paint, especially on the bottom...I was just writing a piece on offshore sailing and the most dangerous injuries normally encountered...and how/why......I prefer them not to happen.

Peter Malcolm Jardine

11-25-2007, 11:28 PM

Ask how to use the head and don't plug the %^&*(#$ thing.

C. Ross

11-26-2007, 12:35 AM

There seems to be at least two schools of thought in these postings. Maybe it's a power/sail thing. But it also seems to have a leisure/adventure component.

Seems to me that the first question should be whether this is a "serious" trip where the captain and crew want to push the experience, or the boat, or the race, or themselves. Seems like the same social rules you'd use to decide if this golf match is for fun or dough, or what the betting rules are for the poker game, or whether to take the double diamond or the bunny trail.

I rather like the saltier replies on this thread, but I'd sure like to know up front what kind of crew, and voyage, the captain is looking for...

Stiletto

11-26-2007, 02:23 AM

Good points C.Ross, After I had done a fair bit of cruising crew work I joined the crew on a small racing keeler. The Dynamic was entirely different, It was a sporting event, the other trips were a bunch of mates doing coastal voyages. Somewhat different requirements , but the overriding one was getting on with everybody else.

bamamick

11-26-2007, 03:08 AM

no matter the boat or the situation: do your share, and then do a little bit more.

If you need to learn, then learn. If you need to teach, then teach. Be willing to do whatever it takes. Whatever it takes might mean to get back safely, to secure the boat and crew, to make the trip more fun or more eventful for the other folks on board, or it may mean whatever it takes to win the regatta.

I haven't crewed much over the past 30 or so years. I used to be really good at it, but I find that I get bored pretty easily crewing on big boats during races. I would really like to give it another go. I was sort of invited to do some sailing on a metre boat next summer and I would like to give it a try. I used to be a damn good team mate back in the day and I believe that I could be one once again.

Mickey Lake

rbgarr

11-26-2007, 09:01 AM

I find that I get bored pretty easily crewing on big boats during races.

That's been the experience of new folks around here, too. They enjoy the weekend cruises (up a river to a cove, to another harbor to enjoy the town and eat at a different restaurant, to an island for exploration and a picnic) much much more.

Wild Wassa

11-26-2007, 08:03 PM

"I get bored ..."

The questions were about crewing, and obviously the point has been missed. Spend some time learning to race in little boats even if it is only for a season or two and you will become very efficient in all aspects of boat handling trimming and support for the Skipper.

When you are on big boats you are basically only rail meat. Of course you will get bored. You might get lucky and get to trim something on one side of the boat ... if you are lucky.

Warren.

bamamick

11-26-2007, 08:27 PM

I was middle for a serious Lightning campaign for a few years, crewed on a 470 for a summer, and of course cut my teeth crewing on Stars in things like the Bacardi, Springs, and NA's. That's what I mean when I say that I get bored.

Anyone who has sailed a modern racing boat knows that in the vast majority of cases they are undermanned. I once gave a blow by blow on what I did as the driver in my Dragon at a weather mark rounding (ease the main and traveler, adjust all three backstays, and then pull in the foreguy to set the pole, all in less time than it took me to type it out). When you are that involved in what's going on physically, and then add in the tactical and strategic issues (which on many boats are handled by others. Not on my boat), you can easily see where sitting and trimming one sheet is going to get boring.

All that being said, it can still be a great deal of fun with the right group of people. I'd still like to give it a try on certain boats.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa

11-26-2007, 08:49 PM

Last Sunday I watched this sloop sail into the basin called Deep Water Mark. The wind that they were sailing in died and when the easterly sea breeze came in it put the boat into a hole ... and she sat there for well over an hour unable to get back into the wind because of the wind shadow from the island. The shadow that they were in was particularly bad. There is no land effect at all seen in the photo. Often there is enough land effect to skoot around the edge of the water but last Sunday was far too hot with the easterly blowing for any thermal differences to be effective.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/TRAPPED.jpg

A good crew would have had her back out into the wind from where she was parked in about 5 minutes or less. She wasn't more than 200m from the wind at any stage. If you were crew on that boat having your first sailing experience ... you might not want to have a second try with that Skipper.

When they came back they were so sunburnt it was almost criminal ... The heat that builds up when we're not moving here is awesome at times. During last Sunday's afternoon race, I drank 2x 600ml Sports drinks for the electrolites and 1 lt of water, and about 1.5 lt water just before the start of Sunday afternoon's race. My Skipper drank even more. Sunday was too hot to be broiling out on the lake just wallowing and not moving.

Warren.

paladin

11-26-2007, 09:52 PM

When I came back to the U.S. for a bit of work, I didn't let folks know that I had a large boat, and escaped with that information for nearly a year, then one weekend I was spotted at the fuel dock in Annapolis, and withina couple of days it seems that everyone knew I had a YACHT.....and of course kept asking when I was taking them sailing. It's one thing to have serious guests aboard, another to have a dozen freeloaders who aren't interested in doing anything except coming aboard and seeing what kind of snacks or booze that you have.
In the ensuing years I have had folks come aboard that thought it was interesting, but no more than maybe a couple of dozen that came aboard and was willing to pitch in with the work, no matter what, share galley duty, and was interested enough to want to steer or trim the sails. Those are the folks that you can speak softly to, that will learn how to handle the lines and properly furl the sails. Those are the folks that I would call and ask if they wanted to take off Saturday to sail, or perhaps make an overnight somewhere. I'm not a racer at heart, and the races that I have participated in are more like rallies with sports cars where proper navigation was more important than speed. I also watch the weather when offshore and tend to avoid bad weather, and when that's impossible, have a tendency to head straight for it, run out a bridle and drogue from the bow, take in everything and glue the doors shut......go below, make some soup and tea, find a book to read or turn on some nice music.....so far it has worked......I'm the worlds biggest Chikkin'.

George.

11-27-2007, 08:46 AM

My "rules" for a good crewmember: first, focus on personal safety. Learn how to stay on board and out of the way of booms and sheets, and how not to get hurt or seasick to the point of dehydration. Learn to see a jibe coming even if none was called for, and how to move about on a heaving boat.

Then, do nothing unless you are sure you know how to do it, and that it is time to do it. Don't be afraid to repeat questions or to ask someone else to show you how once again.

.....my personal rules were arranged so that I was single handing no matter how many were aboard.....

Same here. I fear I'll never take Dalia far if I don't learn otherwise.

Andrew Craig-Bennett

11-27-2007, 09:17 AM

Rules for crew:

1. Always vomit to leeward

2. Shut up

3. Don't even move, unless ordered.

4. Repeat each order as you receive it, to make sure you have it right

5. Keep things clean and tidy

6. Look cheerful

I think that covers it.

paladin

11-27-2007, 10:35 AM

and don't put anything in the head that ain't been processed through the intestinal system first.........

Andrew Craig-Bennett

11-27-2007, 11:14 AM

Yes, I forgot that one.:D

Wild Wassa

11-27-2007, 02:15 PM

A couple of tips for fellow crew. Get on the water often that is what it is actually about no matter what Skippers think it is all about.

I'm averaging one race a day at ther moment, then there is the other time on the water that I spend with my Skippers just tuning and training.

It is all about time on the water to tune 'your' skills.

When the Skipper asks you what is the forcast ... know it well and give the Skipper all the info.

Warren.

John B

11-27-2007, 03:16 PM

and don't put anything in the head that ain't been processed through the intestinal system first.........

Chewing a whole lot of paper isn't going to go down well with my guys. I suspect there might be a rebellion on all sorts of fronts.Mutiny even.

rbgarr

11-27-2007, 04:22 PM

Reminds me of the notice in the bathroom at the Maine Boat Builders Show: "Don't Put Anything In The Toilet Other Than Toilet Paper"

Wild Wassa

11-29-2007, 01:29 PM

Next guideline ... enjoy every moment of it no matter what it is like.

Last night sailing was beautiful. When we launched the sea breeze was only just starting to come in and it came in late at about 5.45pm.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Niceafternoon.jpg

On our last lap, the breeze and storm front came in with a vengence. I looked across to the dinghy fleet up the lake and they were starting to get hammered. Many dinghies went over. We had about a minute of warning and the front lasted only 10 minutes.

When the dinghy fleet started to get hit, I tightened the rig tension to full on the Gem, then tightened the jib and main halyards with the winch to overly tight. I moved the mainsheet car slightly to windward and then dragged on the the cunningham as hard as I could, pulled the vang on to medium hard, moved the genoa cars right back and then put the genoa sheet on the winch and put maximum tension on it to flatten the genoa as much as possible, then took the photo below, got out on the rail as far as and waited, which wasn't for long, all the Skipper did was watch ... then we took off. Looking back at our yardsticks they were getting a sailing lesson last night. It was a good final hit-out for tomorrow's TYA Regatta of Canberra.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Hereitcomes.jpg

Time on the water last night and as-black-as when the front hit.

We weren't out of phase with the wind at any stage last night, our rig tuning was really tidy for the changes in pressure, not much was overlooked. Last night's performance was probably the best race that we sailed all season. The kite worked well in the heavy traffic. We got headed only once and tacked within moments. We kept the mistakes down to a minimum last night considering the traffic was heavy from Flying Fifteens, Sharpies, 14ft skiffs, Magic 25s and Elliot 7's who were also on our racetrack ... and winning the start put us in a good frame of mind early. We got out in front and pulled away from our fleet.

Warren.

Wild Wassa

12-02-2007, 02:57 AM

Next guide line ... accept the good with the bad even when you know you have worked for a good result and a lack of attention to detail costs you your time, and costs you badly.

We lost the TYA Regatta of Canberra this weekend because we had an intermittent long term problem with the mast and didn't attend to it or even think about it untill it bit us.

Two of the halyards locked in the mast causing the genoa to be stuck halfway up while the spinnaker jammed half way down. Yesterday, while I was raising the genoa while also lowering the spinnaker, yes I have two hands that can work independently, the lines locked and we went from 1st place to 23rd place during the 2nd of the 4 regatta races.

Today the Skipper said he had expected the problem and this morning he fixed it, I wish I had known of the problem ... we gave the fleet a sailing lesson today in a passage race, but our result it was only enough to put us back into 6th place overall in a field of 32 boats in our division.

There were a few good things that happened today. We were the second boat home in our Division, beating many Sportsboats including boats Skippered by several Australian Sailing Champions. I always find pleasure when we beat the best.

I made 4,200+ forsail trims during todays 3 hour passage race. Spinnaker trims would have been far greater than that, because the spinnaker we keep fuild, on a continuous line, in light wind rarely do i cleat any spinnaker sheets ... how do I know 4,000+ on the genoa? I counted each trim/tweak. Counted in banks of 100. I've been meaning to count how many times I change the trim of a forsail or genoa during a race and today I did. In light winds I don't cleat off, so I can be ahead of the pressure. The trim/tweak figure was higher than normal today, than if we had been racing in say an 8-20 knots of breeze. I doubt whether the wind got above 5 knots at any stage today. The high aspect ratio sails need to be trimmed heaps ... there is no luxury of playing set and forget when racing.

Today we took the fleet to school in the light winds. I found that an adequate reward for the time we spend. The boat that beat us today in our Division, gave us a lesson as well, a lesson about minimum tacks in light winds. The boat that beat us today was called, 'Get Over It' ... and we might, but I can't say when exactly that will happen.

It took along time before super sailor Mat Owen on 'Walter Turnbull' passed us today. Matt is currently the holder of 3 Australian Titles, Flying Dutchman, Elliot 7 and Magic 25. Being crew, who is better to talk to about my crewing techniques than a skipper like Mat Owen? ... he is generous with his advice, my crewing has benefited greatly from chatting to him. Learn from the best.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Matty.jpg

I looked back today (photo below) and the fleet appeared done for all money ... but as crew you know your job far from over when you are waiting for the sea breeze to kick in ... and the several hundred metre gap is nothing knowing that they will get it first and then be hard up you hammer at the end. I must admit the image below will take along time to forget ... streeting a quality fleet doesn't happen often.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/LOOKINGBACK.jpg

A black swan and the end of day. My Skipper (on the Gem 550 and Flying fifteen) Lee Nielsen looked contented this evening ... but I know he is thinking about our next race which is in 3 days time and watching the wind as always. He is a top Skipper to be with. I can run anything past him and as the Skipper he accepts it or he always tells me why not and gives me a better option. His understanding of sail trim is first class. He keeps me on my toes.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Lee.jpg

Warren.

Andrew Craig-Bennett

12-02-2007, 12:57 PM

"Have straw hats made for your crew showing the shiny side of the leaf on the underside of the brim. It gives a man's face a cheerful expression''

- "Vanderdecken"'s advice to the Tyro. (c.1870?)

Wild Wassa

12-02-2007, 04:06 PM

More guidelines for being a good crew ... Find a good Skipper to be with and always play Pirates of the Carribean to mask an absolutely atrocious demonstration of Skippering and lousy crew work if you can't.

Can you imagine being on a boat like this? Listen to the Skipper's confusing calls to a crew without a clue ... which at no stage hepled anyone in the confusion from this topshelf Youtube clip about an overloaded ship of novices ... maybe some would say sailors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whSHw4k2yLo&feature=related

In only 15-20 knots with six crew on board they have a reef in ... well, "reefing is for rookies" ... really means something on this boat. The way the reef was tied, it didn't create a shelf at the base of the main.

This clip wasn't "hamming it up" ... this was a real situation. On the bow, strength is essential if ever a drama happens. Strength just to hang on.

I can't believe how long the spinnaker pole was allowed to swing freely.

When a spectator boat returned the crew, no one was watching the boom ... it wasn't like the boat was short of hands to protect the dude who was helping the person who went overboard, back onboard. The potential for another farcical misshap from the boom looked well on the cards. The part of the main sheet that the person in the cabin grabbed eventially, would not have stopped the boom from coming across under any circumstances. He/she should have made sure the boom was held right out with no chance of coming back around.

Watch the dudes on the low side hanging on for dear life when the boat rounded up ... and watch the old bloke wave at the end. A beautiful comeback by someone who at no stage tried to balance the boat when the boat was in difficulties ... but nicely finished off with a friendly wave, he may have even said ... " 'pree-shait-that," to the recovery crew. The old chap was not given orders to respond to anything.

Far too many passengers were on board that boat that day ... at least 3 too many passengers or possibly even 4 after seeing their lack of displayed ability. The two people that did nothing weren't even usefull ballast ... and that was at a Nationals?

Just imagine that boat crew in a downwind start under kite?

That fiasco took 5+ minutes and they didn't recover their crew. The crew even allowed herself to be picked up by a spectator boat (at a Nationals?). The crew was recovered by 'outside interference' ... causing the boat's retirement from the race. Hopefully that race was their drop.

Warren.

S.V. Airlie

12-03-2007, 08:22 AM

Bottm line.. Experience is not a requirement but it helps if the crew has some..

Rules 1,2,3,4,5 etc. BE WILLING TO HELP.....

Wild Wassa

12-26-2007, 03:59 AM

The boat that is currently running 3rd on PHS in the Sydney to Hobart Classic, Namadgi, is being Skippered by a dinghy crewman from the Flying Fifteen Fleet at the Canberra Yacht Club ... Rick Scott-Murphy.

What did Jamie Uncas say? ... "experience is not a requirement." Try going sailing with top crew Jamie, you might not want to look back.

Warren.

Henning 4148

12-26-2007, 06:44 AM

First rule I establish is clothing. Depending on the weather forecast, but when going into unsheltered waters: Warm, rainproof, with a sensible hat to protect from rain or sunshine and a second set of clothing as backup. Also, sunblocker cream. The last thing a skipper wants is to worry about someone having hypothermia or too much sun on the head or a sunburn.

Then safety - with unexperienced crew probably lifejacket in anything but perfect beginners wetter. I do wear one as well, everyone wears one if there is unexperienced crew on board, so nobody has a reason to feel put back.

Once these two basics are established, the rest is learning by doing. But I have learned to be very strict on the two above having had a case of slight hypothermia once in a crewmember who thought herself experienced but had not considered it necessary to follow my recommendation to bring real waterproof clothing (also had discusions about life jackets with the same person) and another case with an excellent and experienced helmsman who had forgotten a hat against the sun ... . So - it's not recommendations any more, it is rules. Someone not following - the boat doesn't leave the harbor until they have got the missing stuff.

Two more points I have found necessary to stress
- it must be clear to every crewmember, that a boat can not be stopped anytime so people can get off. Even if they don't enjoy the trip, it can be a few hours (or even days, but I am not doing that sort of sailing) until they can get off. To many people in our modern "instant gratification" world, this concept is new.
- it must be clear to every crewmember, that for a boat to work, one person has the responsibility and with that the command. And - every skipper runs his boat differently, the crew has to accept this. A boat is not an academic discussion club. Again, a new concept to many people in our modern world.

David Tabor (sailordave)

12-26-2007, 09:42 AM

I made 4,200+ forsail trims during todays 3 hour passage race. Spinnaker trims would have been far greater than that, because the spinnaker we keep fuild, on a continuous line, in light wind rarely do i cleat any spinnaker sheets ... how do I know 4,000+ on the genoa? I counted each trim/tweak. Counted in banks of 100.

Um, Warren, do you think that all that counting maybe mighta distracted you from your job of TRIMMING?:D:p

And yes, that's a LOT of trimming!

HENNING: My rule of thumb for going sailing and telling people what to bring is to wear (or bring) clothes to LAYER to match the weather forecast MINUS 20 degrees. Plus rain gear.

Now I will admit I don't always follow this rule. But if you do, I can just about guarantee you won't be TOTALLY miserable out on the water for the day.

Henning 4148

12-26-2007, 12:35 PM

David,

that's more or less what I tell crew. I word it a bit different, telling them that (in summer) I want them to bring gear to stay dry, warm and comfy on the deck for at least 8 hours in strong winds, massive rain and temperatures around 5 degrees and have a suitable hat as well for those conditions because it may be necessary. And yes, onion principle. And the waterproofs being really waterproof. No fancy "hiking techno" stuff or gear like that, but waterproof "boaters" gear. Plastic "oilies" are pretty cheap and many commercial fishermen still wear them, so, there is a lot to say for them, especially for people who just "want to try sailing".

I have got a few raised eyebrows over this over the time, but have had trouble with anything less. And over time, what has anoyed me most were people who couldn't do their duty on the boat because against advice they brought unsuitable gear and became a medical. Suddenly you are approx. 1 1/2 crewmembers short, the person who has hypothermia or whatever, someone to keep an eye on him or her and you have an additional problem to worry about, because of stupidity. Seasickness is a different animal, on a novice it's nobodys fault, but poor clothing against advice - well.

Hwyl

12-27-2007, 08:58 AM

There seems to be at least two schools of thought in these postings. Maybe it's a power/sail thing. But it also seems to have a leisure/adventure component.

As most of you know, I do this for some of my living.

What I think C. Ross is pointing out is actually part of my preamble.

I usually run the boat in a Laissez Faire kind of way, I think it may be called the "collegiate" management system, where everyone works according to their ability and inclination. As Paladin points out, to do this, one has to be prepared to almost singlehand the boat with crew on board. I do try to raise everyone's game somewhat and am usually successful, you have to remember that mostly I get crew who want to experience "blue water" and want to improve their knowledge, which is an easy "win win" situation.

Now for the big but, there are times and hopefully not many times, when this collegiate system has to change to total authoritarianism, when it's "Do it my way, and do it now". It's always for safety reasons of course, but the net result is that crew members, see me change from mild mannered and passive to a total a$$hole. I try to prepare for this in the preamble so people are aware of it, and it somewhat lessens the effect.

I have had crewmembers who insist on doing the same stupidly dangerous thing again and again, then we have problems.

davidagage

12-27-2007, 09:01 AM

I am crew. (for now) and hope to be able to crew someday for Jamie and for Gareth. And of course for Margo and Ian and Steven, and Hugh, and Mickie, and John, and well, the list goes on and on...:)

rbgarr

12-27-2007, 10:29 AM

Gareth,

I appreciated the tack you took on the Halifax delivery, and if you were on the verge of turning 'a-hole' when things didn't get done the way you wished, I didn't sense it. The few times you preferred particular actions it made good sense, was clearly safety related and not condescending at all. It's the attitude and approach that often makes things 'a-holish'. :D

donald branscom

12-27-2007, 10:45 AM

Never let someone on your boat that will not admit they made a mistake. No know it all's.
Do not go on a boat with drugs in your pockets. Weed etc.,.
They could lose their boat.
A boat is a dictatorship NOT a Democracy.

Figment

12-27-2007, 12:28 PM

ah........ nope. too easy.

Wild Wassa

12-27-2007, 05:21 PM

"... mighta distracted you from your job of TRIMMING? ...And yes, that's a LOT of trimming!" - Sailor Dave.

Yes it was.

I trim the jib non-stop in light winds in all aspects of the jib’s shape and placement. In heavy winds the only time I basically trim apart from changing gears when coming out of a tack or going through a turn and keeping an eye on the slot and twist and trimming to a change in the leeward telltails all in relationship to how I've tensioned the rig and the main ... is to exhaust the wind. I like everything streaming if the wind is there, while not backwinding the main.

Telltails do not always tell all about sailing efficiently, unlike feeling every change to respond to quickly... when the object of racing a boat is to keep her moving at maximum efficiency at all times, lost parts of a second can be the killer. The Gem 550 is a fantastic boat to crew because the single crew does a lot of work. The Skipper calls most the shots and I do the work ... that seems like a fair division of labour.

When I watched a training video about Ben Ainslie's preparation for the Athens Olympics ... he was trimming, not just on every wave or on every puff, he was instantly trimming to every change of pressure that he could feel. If it is good enough for Ben Ainslie to trim repeatedly ... who am I to disagree with the best small boat sailor going around?

I moved from the NS14 to the Flying Fifteen Keelboat and trailable yachts. On the NS14 handholding is what it is all about ... the good habits learnt on the NS14, I've brought to the bigger boats almost subconsciously.

The jib on the Gem 550 is only 8.45 sq m or in the old language 90.95 sq ft. When the wind is below 4 or 5 knots it is no drama to hand hold the sheets. Handholding means that I'm always ahead of the pressure, I'm not reacting belatedly to a change of pressure seen through the telltails, like I do if I cleat off the sheets and don't feel the changes.

The spinnaker on the Gem 550 is 23 sq m or 257.5 sq ft. The spinnaker brace and sheet I don't cleat off unless the wind is above 8-10 knots. I steer the spinnaker like a tractor steering wheel, the brace and the sheet move as one big arc. Above 8-10 knots I cleat the brace off. The number of times I change the pole angle and play and trim the spinnaker’s ears is again, non-stop, even when the brace is cleated. Being an inland sailor I know that having 10 seconds of good wind from a particular direction, is not to be relied on ever.

On the Gem 550 when the wind is above 15 knots, the jib or the spinnaker brace is cleated and I'm trimming sheets depending on the heel.

Above 15 knots the Gem is overpowered when reaching or beating and when the wind is above 18 knot, basically all I'm doing then is hanging on for dear life with the winches heavily loaded up ... just waiting to spill air at every possible opportunity to stop the boat from rounding up or going over.

I do trim a lot ... if we were at the back of the fleets that I/we race in, I’d possibly be rethinking my techniques. Continually trimming is in responce to the attrocious winds that we get ... even when racing on the coast, I'm always looking for a better sail set, it is a good habit to have developed.

Having crewed for past Australian Title holders like Pat Farnham, Wayne Silick and Peter Harvey, they have all appeared happy with my techniques. Winning races I/we do not find to be that few and far between. Something has got to be working.

With my current Skipper Lee, on the Gem and the Flying Fifteen, he doesn't tend to sail to the telltails ... he expects me to trim the sails to where he is sailing. I don't have the luxury of playing 'set and forget'.

After the 9th of January we are getting back into the Flying Fifteen and upping our training on the boat. We will also keep racing the Gem as we are doing well in her, and the best of the trailer yacht regattas are still to come this season.

The next Flying Fifteen World Titles are in Melbourne. The boat we race 'Rag Dolly' has an open entry to the World Titles, being a Silver Class Flying Fifteen. We are thinking of changing our Class to race a Classic Flying Fifteen at the Titles, that's if we can find the right boat to race, being a Classic Champion has a nice ring to it. We are also going to go through the qualifying rounds as a good lead up to the Titles. If we qualify in the top group we will find a Modern FF to race, that's the current thinking. My Skipper has already booked our accommodation in Melbourne ... the Skipper is serious.

I like Skippers who appreciate their crew and are serious about doing well. Boat racing is an expensive sport if you are not to doing well. I appreciate every cent my Skipper spends ... I sail hard to thank him for his trouble.

Warren.

Wild Wassa

12-29-2007, 06:10 PM

Next rule for being a good crew. When opportunity knocks, don't complain about the noise.

I've been invited to go to Victoria and race in the Skandia Geelong Week. During the week there are National Titles being held for some of the yacht classes and Sports boats, Skippers are looking for crew. I don't know the Skipper or the boat I'll that be on. Unfortunately I will be losing my lilly white amateur status as a sailor ... that will be difficult to live with.

I'm going to Geelong before the event with my friend Allan Green, so that we can sail the courses, log the marks for the passage race and spend a couple of days just sailing around, getting the feel of Corio Bay.

I've resisted sailing on big boats, but it could be time to step up another metre or two. If I've scored a ride as the bow, that will be cool. If I'm the navigator even better but if just rail meat ... I do rail meat very badly.

Warren.

paladin

12-29-2007, 07:42 PM

I enjoyed guests aboard time to time....but solo sailing does have advantages.....one being that you're never in such a monstrous hurry to get anywhere....otherwise you would be flying......and when you're not in a hurry you dunno go fast, fewer heading changes, fewer sail trims etc puff boats dunno got ETA's, just destinations.

C. Ross

12-29-2007, 08:37 PM

...there are times and hopefully not many times, when this collegiate system has to change to total authoritarianism, when it's "Do it my way, and do it now". It's always for safety reasons of course, but the net result is that crew members, see me change from mild mannered and passive to a total a$$hole. I try to prepare for this in the preamble so people are aware of it, and it somewhat lessens the effect.

Same way I run my boat ... and my department at work.

I can't possibly compare the risk and complexity of my boating to Gareth's. My inland river boating is almost all leisure, with only a few risks (barges, the occasional snagged or floating tree, other stupid boaters). My opinion is that crew (and employees) want both autonomy and leadership, as long as they believe the leader is capable and can fairly differentiate between situations that call for command versus collegiality. Under adverse conditions, I think everyone welcomes the clarity of a clear leader with clear instructions. It's damn near magic when a team's leadership is shared but unambiguous, and adapts to the circumstances.

It must be a pleasure to crew for you, Gareth.

Cris

Wild Wassa

01-13-2008, 05:21 AM

Yesterday I went to a training session and seminar on advanced crewing and race Skippering.

"The weakest part on a boat is the weakest crew on the boat." Yes.

"The crew calls the shots and must not be reactive but proactive." Yes.

"If the crew fails to call the shots correctly the Skipper is seriously handicapped." Yes.

"Each correct call gains at least 2-3 boatlengths to windward." Yes.

"Skippers tack badly generally, they tack too sharply." Not today we didn't.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/Round10-1.jpg

Looking back at the fleet today being chased by a Magic 25 (above), told me that my Skipper and I are sailing well as a team and big sails win big races. My Skipper asked me many questions about timing our moves and how well was our lose covering going and where were we tactically on ladder rungs, and how well were we sitting in the fleet. Today we raced well and I answered all of his questions as accurately as possible and timed each puff and called each lift ... and watched my Skipper feather the boat beautifully today \to stop us from getting hammered, while I drove the boat as hard as ... and encouraged the Skipper to keep sailing hard. When I analyzed our GPS route this evening, the Skipper sailed our spinnaker legs rhumb line perfect, the wind was excellent today and the wind angles actually worked ... I only gibed the kite 5 times during today's race.

Next rule for advanced crewing. When in front of the fleet never back off ... sail as hard as possible and stay totally focussed and notice even the little things ... like three big fat blow flies on the rigging on a Magic 25 when she was close. Notice everything.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/3flies.jpg

Next rule for advanced crewing. Accurate and timely communication is everything to the Skipper ... don't fail the Skipper, be decisive and be early with the calls. Notify the Skipper of every change that you see happening and every change that you see coming, and time the calls to the second ... I count down each of the changes so that the Skipper can hear me, to help make his job easier, so that he can concentrate on doing his job well.

My posts aren't really about race crewing. My posts are about getting the job done.

Warren.