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View Full Version : Let us stand up for good things



ishmael
11-20-2007, 04:24 PM
There's so much bad in the world, we hear about it incessantly. Dog bites man isn't much news.

I'm thinking of the suppers given to people who have been burned out of their homes. The jars to collect offerings are found at all the local yokel stores. I'm thinking of Mark Twain, who lost his fortune, his wife, his daughter yet kept on plugging and made the first stand-up comedy routine while touring Europe. Not in that order.

Twain did a beautiful thing, when in his late middle age he formed a salon of literary minded girls. He called them his angel fish. They'd get together, read and write. He sheltered them, criticised their work, praised it. Weekly they'd get together and have a pow wow. Simply beautiful. BTW, was there sexual tension as the girls grew up? I have no doubt. But people trusted each other then. A trust that with the hypersexualizing of everything has been lost. It's very sad, but Twain's salon couldn't happen today. A middle-aged man with a troupe of adolescent girls would be seen as twisted. It wasn't, it was fantastic.

ishmael
11-20-2007, 05:12 PM
It's part and parcel, the sex goes with it.

Let's say I'm Twain, and I start mentoring a girl when she's ten. When she turns 17 the dynamic changes. But we trust one another. I know I'm in my fifties and you are 17. It's not wrong to have desire, but you know it would be wrong to act on it, because she's 17 and you are fifty eight. So you agree on trust. That trust is so important.

Men with adolescent and maturing daughters have a hard time with this, but it's just part of the human equation.

Jacques LeBoner
11-20-2007, 05:29 PM
this an argument that some men feel compelled to make. As if enjoying the beauty of a young is immoral. That is of course, if you are not D Trump, or cannot provide some substantial gain for the young lady.
J

Jacques LeBoner
11-20-2007, 05:31 PM
excuse typos and omissions
J

skuthorp
11-20-2007, 05:52 PM
Ish, if the title of your thread isn't a blind, then what you're talking about is volunteers. They're not counted in GDP because the bean counters can't quantify the contribution, but society is dependent on them. Meals, firefighting, hospital visitors, the Red Cross, almost every branch of every religion has it's local, nation and international arm. Greenpeace, the Peace Corps as was, environmental groups, the SPCA, these are motivated people who care without the hook of profit These people are the lifeblood of nations, the ones that keep it ticking over in spite of Govt.
Of course Ish may want to talk of pubescent and adolescent girls and if so then this is not the right title.

Hughman
11-20-2007, 06:03 PM
Men with adolescent and maturing daughters have a hard time with this, but it's just part of the human equation.


Nonsense

Jacques LeBoner
11-20-2007, 06:32 PM
I think he is fishing, or trying to dump some guilt.
J

skuthorp
11-20-2007, 06:38 PM
What's the time up his way, too much time alone with a bottle? Now Ish If I've misjudged you then I apologise but you must try to get out more often.

LeeG
11-20-2007, 07:47 PM
this is the old Jack, Holocaust has been covered, he dashed off once folks got to specifics and now it's straight to middle aged men and young women with a side shot to the dads on the forum.

toga, toga, toga, toga

adampet
11-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Lets stand up for good things... a bunch of people from an electronic bulletin board got together to cut wood for a man who some had met and some hadn't. They travelled from near and from far. Another friend from this world paid for their lunch, anonymously and from afar. Some of the discussion was about how a community has been redefined in this era and how..."it's a good thing"

Now Twain may have been a mentor to some women, I just don't see how that has to do with this. Doubtless there are men now who do the same thing in a non-sexual way. So what? Why so fixated on this? Go out and help your neighbor, even if they live 150 miles away. Get out of the house and interact!

Bet you could get a ride to Ken's on Sunday if you asked.

Adam

The Bigfella
11-20-2007, 08:46 PM
Jack - why don't you just go out and get laid?

Chris Coose
11-20-2007, 08:59 PM
I'm thinking of Mark Twain, who lost his fortune, his wife, his daughter yet kept on plugging..... .
adolescent girls.


It's going to be a long winter fellas.

And Jack I do have problems with your twisted inferences about fathers and daughters. You can take your punk BS pyschology and shove it up your a$$.

glenallen
11-20-2007, 09:11 PM
Nonsense

Agreed!
I had no such problems raising daughters, as most fathers do not.
Where do you come up with such crappola, Jack?

ishmael
11-20-2007, 09:14 PM
I tell a good story about Twain, who though hard pressed at times was a very honorable man. The loss of loved ones was incredibly hard on this sensitive soul. I make some further observations, which are valid, and all that comes back is guff.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, a penny saved is a penny earned, lie down with dogs and get up with fleas. Other cliches of the season.

P.S. I'm not a father, but most fathers I knew of adolescent women had issues with them growing up and becoming sexual. That Twain was allowed to be a mentor to his angel fish wouldn't be allowed today, and that's too bad. That the observation raises such ire is an interesting making of my point.

Tar Devil
11-20-2007, 09:15 PM
Where do you come up with such crappola, Jack?

And why do you guys feed this nonsense by responding?

Chris Coose
11-20-2007, 09:26 PM
And why do you guys feed this nonsense by responding?

For the most part I've come to ignore it but on occasion I will deliver the bitch slap Jack asks us to place on his masochistic self.

glenallen
11-20-2007, 09:31 PM
And why do you guys feed this nonsense by responding?

I've asked myself that question numerous times but have never come up with a satisfactory answer.

ishmael
11-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Alan Watts wrote an interesting essay titled something like "The taboo against knowing oneself."

I haven't said anything untoward here. I broached a topic that makes some of you uncomfortable. No offense was intended. Having a look in the mirror might be better than labeling me an idiot.

P.S. I think being a single male in today's culture holds a very different perspective on these things. I'm not allowed to be a Twain to any adolescent or child, I'm an object of suspicion. I can't goof with the kid down the street, people don't trust anymore. It's sad and lonely. I have much I could offer, but I can't find a way to do it in today's society of fear. Just my experience. I'm sure there is a way in, but it's not easy.

P.P.S. A good friend and mentor when I was a kid, still a friend, Skip was a single man. We liked each other, sailed together, and he always had a kid or two under his wing. But it came at a price in the small neighborhood we lived in. People whispered behind his back. He'd never married so he must be homosexual or a pervert. That gossip, when it came to me, really hurt me, 'cause I knew Skip, and he was a really fine man. Those pressures have only gotten stronger, and it's very unfortunate. Skip, BTW, in his late seventies, still skates ref for the local highschool hockey team.

The Bigfella
11-20-2007, 09:54 PM
I make some further observations, which are valid, and all that comes back is guff.......
I haven't said anything untoward here. I broached a topic that makes some of you uncomfortable. No offense was intended. Having a look in the mirror might be better than labeling me an idiot.

Yeah Jack ....... I've got experience in this area. I've been in the Rock Spider division at Gaol/Jail. Just visiting mind you, but I'd pull the lever on any one of the miserable bunch in there.

I've also counselled a sicko who at the age of about 40 was making goggle eyes at a 14 year old. The biggest problem I've got with this is that you remind me of him. You seem to be the only one around here fixated on this issue. Get help.

Oh yeah - add me to the list of fathers of a now grown-up daughter who never slid into your perverted dream world.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
11-20-2007, 09:54 PM
Let's stand up for good things. Let's waddle around in our own psyche. Let's do a dance in our prepubescent adolescent pants. Lets drink so much we fall down and pee ourselves. It's all good.

ishmael
11-20-2007, 10:26 PM
What a bunch of wanker armchair shrinks.

I've worked with people with a sexual twist, scrutinized my own psyche around all manner of issues. Get help!? What more do you want me to do? LOL. My particular twists aren't sexual, they aren't much of anything anymore. I think I have some shadow around violence, but don't most of us? I definately have some twists around sociability at the moment.

The story of Twain's angelfish is beautiful, a good thing he did. That was the intent of the original post, what good we can do in the world. I watched some film of one of his angelfish when someone did a Twain bio a few years back. She'd gone on and become a professor of English, was an old woman when interviewed in the forties. Such fondness was remembered. Imagine having Twain as a mentor!

My Billy Budd nature, the nature of the world, always seems to get me in trouble.

Jacques LeBoner
11-20-2007, 10:51 PM
This was interesting, lot of good stuff, get it out there.
I am still worried about the sky falling. things are going to hell in a hand bag. For a while the hole commune was up in arms, more sitings of Bin Ladden, than there have bin of Elvis. And now with the darkness of depression descending upon us we will need a sacrifice.
Perhaps the illegals, why yes that would do. Hang then high.
But there is worse to come, for he is on the wing, drawn to you by the smells your fears.
Jacques

ishmael
11-20-2007, 11:43 PM
Well, Dutch, it hurts that people here twist what I say.

The last time I hurt someone physically I punched Steve Bathaur in the nose over Janet Smith when I was eleven. It was an honest dispute, with a lot of bluster, and one good punch in the nose. I didn't break it, but it bled. He didn't land a punch on me, so I guess I won. All the kids were gathered and cheering.

Maybe we grow up, but I don't know.

Stiletto
11-21-2007, 12:06 AM
Until proven otherwise I take what Jack says at face value.

Sexual tension can exist in all sorts of scenarios. I personally know of a somewhat naive adult male who had known some girls all their lives and became the subject of suspiscion once they became teenagers. The sexual tension was there from the girls. He was unaware of it.
His family members drew his attention to it and the friendship was over.
This was sad, although in terms of the larger picture, understandable.

Lets not pass judgement on someone who sees the world differntly from us when they have done no harm!

Jacques LeBoner
11-21-2007, 12:11 AM
There wouldn't be so many old fat men riding Harleys if we did grow up, but we grow old. That is still not an excuse for becoming narrow minded, or stingy.
J

Memphis Mike
11-21-2007, 12:38 AM
Jack, I wish you would stop boring us with this bullsh!t. If you want to write then I suggest going back to school in order to learn how.

Your friend,

Mike


PS {Next up.....The North American Man/Boy Love Association.}

You're twisted.

Jacques LeBoner
11-21-2007, 12:56 AM
I wouldn't touch that subject with your .......
J

ishmael
11-21-2007, 01:19 AM
"Until proven otherwise I take what Jack says at face value."

Well, thank you.

At fiftyone, with a baby face, a twenty five year old drew my love and attraction. Nup, not going there. I would never harm or violate anyone, except may Steve Bathaur, who deserved a punch in the nose. Sweet love. It's beautiful.

Devotion. Attraction. I remember at nineteen falling head over heals for a blond who I saw at student union. I asked her to marry me. We were together for five years. She married a shoe salesman, who took her to Australia and back. Kris was a fine woman, who I'll honor till I die. I probably should have married her.

Labeling me some pervert because I'm different, is very odd to me. I want to understand, but the accusations make it difficult.

ishmael
11-21-2007, 01:35 AM
Mike,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Did you go to school to learn guitar?

Why, how is what I'm saying twisted? I'm thinking I don't want to hear your guitar when you play it because everything you learn and play is going to be tainted by the negative. Blues is good, fine. I knew a white boy who played the blues on his guitar to break your heart.

I've got probably a ten year window here to say what I have to say. I'm doing my best.

P.S. An interesting story from our founding. John Adams, who was very loquacious, and a center of the independence movement, took a decision in late 1775. Have this upstart Jefferson write the declaration. Jefferson was thirty five or so, and Adams recognized a hunger, an ability with words. The result was one of the finest documents ever penned in English, the American Declaration of Independence. Don't sell yourself, or others short, Mike. I wonder sometimes if my best words aren't behind me. I wrote some poems in my thirties that stand up. They will die, except that they were published.

Chris Coose
11-21-2007, 07:54 AM
Having a look in the mirror might be better than labeling me an idiot.



Let's do both.

Joe (SoCal)
11-21-2007, 08:03 AM
Jack - why don't you just go out and get laid?

Exactly, how long has it been now Jack ?