Fell in love with an "Ugly" boat

[Mark Kehe]

Alright. I'm sure I'm not the first to do this but I have fallen in love with a beautiful bout in rather ugly condition. It has been sitting at a local salvage lot all summer and I just can't help myself from imagining what she would be like brought back to even close to her glory.

So from the pictures can anyone tell me anything about her and (more importantly) am I completely out of my mind for even considering try to acquire her (for very little hopefully) as a project.

Please let me know what you think

thanks
1951 wooden sailboat (http://laketow.com/sales/51_Sailboat.htm)

[cs]

From the untrained eye, I would say that she looks plenty restorable. Just how far away from Chattanooga is she? I've almost brought home worst projects than that.

http://laketow.com/sales/Images/boats/51woodensailboat/MVC-391S.JPG

http://laketow.com/sales/Images/boats/51woodensailboat/MVC-403S.JPG

In contrast here is a Chris Craft I almost brought home.

http://a7.cpimg.com/image/89/6F/13232777-96b9-028001E0-.jpg

Chad

[Bob Cleek]

Can't be sure from the pics, but she may be a Herreshoff "Prudence." (Lines are in LFH's "Sensible Cruising Designs" with a drawing of her on the cover.) The boat appears professionally built. Worth restoring if her main timbers aren't totally rotted out.

[Scott Rosen]

Ugh.

That's what you call a project. I can't tell much from the pictures, except that, even in the best of circumstances, that will take a lot of work.

I don't think she's the prettiest boat--okay but not great for looking at. You really need to be in love with a boat if you expect to have the patience and persistence to do a restoration that big.

If you're interested, go see her and bring an ice pick or a marlinespike and poke as much wood as you can for rot. Judging by the pics, you're going to find plenty. The planks look okay, but the keel and timbers look a bit funky. The interior looks bad--the only time I've seen paint peel like that is when the wood is completely rotten.

Bob, I don't think she's a Prudence. Too big, not pretty enough.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Better an ugly boat than an ugly woman I say ;)
You can always get rid of the boat.

[Victor]

Not so ugly, just homeless. It would take a lot of time to get her pretty again, but it might be worth it.

[Bill Perkins]

Shurly the offset prop indicates that power was retrofitted ? Are you willing to live with this ? I saw a pic of an Albert Strange double ender with such a retrofit . Has anyone handled a boat with this setup? The prop barely clears the hull , which I can't believe leads to the best efficency . Also in tight spaces sometimes you want to use full right rudder ( with the boat barely moveing )and give a quick shot of throttle to kick the stern around ; not an option with this setup .

[ 10-29-2004, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[holzbt]

That offset prop looks like it came right off the L. F. Herreshoff plans for the H-28, which is what this boat appears to be from the photo's.

[Bill Perkins]

Was this a way of registering disapproval of the installation of power and punishing the owner ; presenting it as extraneous to the design ?

[ 10-29-2004, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Dosen't look ugly to me. Actually I can see the beauty in this boat. Good luck, keep us posted. smile.gif

[MarkC]

After a survey you would know what's needed.

[Bill Perkins]

Clearly it's an easier installation Mike .It just doesn't seem that many people have opted to make that compromise in new work .It makes the boat a less attractive candidate for renovation in my eyes, but hey , she may have just seduced a new owner .

[ 10-30-2004, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[holzbt]

I believe the offset prop is more efficient under power and creates less drag than an aperture when under sail. The only real drawback is that maneuvering under power is a bit hindered by not having the prop wash acting against the rudder when in forward.

[Bob Smalser]

Looks like something I would bring home if the price ranged within roughly the value of the hardware I could salvage if my condition judgement proved to be faulty. Building that interior would be fun, once the nasties were over with.

If you are in love with it...it'll show...and you might have a disinterested pal who'll walk away with conviction a couple times if necessary negotiate purchase for you.

Two immediate concerns I'd be real thorough with the ice picks and tap hammer (and minor dismantling...like the garboards... if I could get away with it.)

1) The keel end grain doesn't look so good. The lower deadwood areas are straightforward enough, but if the inner face of of the keel at the frame mortises or stern timber are bad, any end grain rot runs forward some, or if that keel timber has the log's pith in it, I'd consider it a showstopper. Same if I had a lot of lower end frame rot in more than a few frames.

http://laketow.com/sales/Images/boats/51woodensailboat/MVC-392S.JPG

2) Looks well built and has a lot of H. Mahog in it, and the pics don't look upwards very well, but if the upper decking is plywood, a delam problem may require much of it to be replaced.

[Jack Heinlen]

Next stop, either a "self-survey" by you, or by someone who knows. Take your time if you are doing it by yourself. Anyone know a good book for him? I know there are some. Bob Smalser's point about the value of the fittings if it turns into a bust is worthy. Lots of good suggestions.

This presents an interesting comparison with Ben Bow on the other thread. With enough energy and skill and money a boat can always be fixed. Sometimes they move beyond desirable unless they contain some other intrinsic value, ala Billy Atkin's Ben Bow. Ben Bow sounds quite a bit rougher, and a harder fix, but unless it is a total wreck she deserves consideration beyond a generic H-28.

Print this thread out, make a list, ask questions. Take an ice pick or awl, and light hammer, and have a poke around. Report back.

Good luck.

[ 10-31-2004, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[John Bell]

A wooden boat sitting on the dirt in the deep South ought to be checked out very thoroughly for termites. Around here, I cant toss a two-by on the ground for more than a few days before it becomes a mostly hollow shell. Charlotte probably isn't all that much different. A sharp awl will tell you for sure.

[Willin']

That's LFH's H-28 ketch. The bale on the rudder head and the mast step in the cockpit differentiate it from the Prudence.

Looks to me like it's spent some time underwater.

Unless you're competent to judge the condition of the wood, it needs a survey. If it's a giveaway, it sure would look good in my yard!

One suggestion. If you repower it, consider a centerline shaft/wheel (through the stern post). The offset prop arrangement on those boats made them difficult to back to port.

They make great, pretty, sea kindly pocket cruisers with a surprising turn of speed if you don't bog it down with too much junk.

Good luck,

[martin schulz]

Originally posted by Bill Perkins:
Shurly the offset prop indicates that power was retrofitted ? Are you willing to live with this ? I saw a pic of an Albert Strange double ender with such a retrofit . Has anyone handled a boat with this setup? The prop barely clears the hull , which I can't believe leads to the best efficency . Also in tight spaces sometimes you want to use full right rudder ( with the boat barely moveing )and give a quick shot of throttle to kick the stern around ; not an option with this setup .You are of course totally right. A prop at the side will give you problems in close spaces. I often crew on the WILLLOW WREN, which is a 85ft Smack Yacht built 1886. She has a side-prop as well and is quite difficult to maneuver.

On the other hand a small boat like the one above should not be a big problem. Boats this size don't have to use the engine at all (except in emercencies or dead calms) - my opinion.

[martin schulz]

Hmm - intersting.
Before:
http://laketow.com/sales/Images/boats/51woodensailboat/MVC-403S.JPG

After:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid51/p018c3e0f9ff3bd7e591d57a5fc8fc5eb/fca54fda.jpg

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Originally posted by Bill Perkins:
Shurly the offset prop indicates that power was retrofitted ? Are you willing to live with this ? I saw a pic of an Albert Strange double ender with such a retrofit . Has anyone handled a boat with this setup? The prop barely clears the hull , which I can't believe leads to the best efficency . Also in tight spaces sometimes you want to use full right rudder ( with the boat barely moveing )and give a quick shot of throttle to kick the stern around ; not an option with this setup .Yes, for the past 20 years.

It has three advantages:

1. Structurally, the sternpost is not cut in two and drifts can be placed as needed.

2. Under sail, water does not flow to the wrong side of the rudder through the propeller aperture, so the boat is tylically better balanced on the helm.

3, Under power, you can turn on a sixpence towards the side where the prop is (in this case, and in my case, to port) by putting the prop hard over and deflecting the prop wash.

The disadvantages are that the prop may break the surface when motorsailing close hauled, that the helm has to be held over somewhat when motoring, that the prop walk is remarkable, and that going astern is not to be thought of - but that goes for almost any long keeled sailing boat.

The H28 is a pukka LFH design; this boat could be lovely.

[Leon Steyns]

Doesn't look ugly to me...

I'd have her properly surveyed, even if she was for free. If you're going to do this, it will use up lots of cash, material and (most valuable:) all your spare time! You don't want to see it all go up in smoke because of nasty "surprises"... :rolleyes:

Good luck and please let us know what you decide.

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[Edited to add: I stand corrected! She's listed under 'Items for sale'... Have her surveyed!!! It will be the best investment you'll make in this project.]

[ 10-31-2004, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Leon Steyns ]

[bottompaint]

So...no other plans for the next 5 years?

"bless the ugly boat and woman, both more likely to stay in on a Saturday night".

[cbob]

Mark, Don't let the offset prop setup throw you off. H 28s are a fine design and the offset prop is standard (on this and many other designs by LFH, Lapworth and others, who knew what they were doing). By adjusting the angle of thrust properly, very little offsetting helm is required under power, and none under sail. Bennett and LFH got it right. If you want an auxiliary sail boat that sails, this is the right choice, if you want to manuver in tight places and/or without steerage or back up straight, get a turnable outboard or a powerboat. I am familiar with many of these offset installations and have never heard a complaint. I've lived quite happily with mine for three decades. Finest Kind! For even more performance, try a feathering or folding prop.

BTW Martin, is "after" some kind of Lapworth, many familiar details, windows, furnature etc?
Happy Halloween. cbob

[Billy Bones]

Yooostabeee you could find plenty of sailable H28s, of which this is almost cerainly an example, for $5000. Seven grand could get you a fairly nice one.

H28s were Herreshoff's offering in plan form via magazine articles to the returning GI home-builder, so quality was extremely variable. So, in the infamous words of some wag or other, "loop before you leap."

[Bill Perkins]

Ha . The offset prop may become the wave of the future ! Why aren't the raceing folk on to this ?

[Billy Bones]

Well, they are, in the sense that sail drives are typically offset.

[Bill Perkins]

Phew . What a relief . I knew LFH could never really be in error .

[ 11-01-2004, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[WindHawk]

"She may be ugly, but she sure can cook!"

"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, then make an ugly woman your wife..."

Good food & good company can make up for plenty.

[Dan McCosh]

It's tough to say anything about the condition, but if that is an H-28, they are very nice boats, and relatively easy to work on. Question: is this still a boat, or just a pattern?

[qm]

There but for you go I! And I have got there first on quite a few! I'm building a barn to spend several years restoring one, not unlike this one. Very nice...! Love her good. Bob(qm)