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View Full Version : A Beemer Flattracker !!! speaking of motorcycles



Paul Pless
11-04-2007, 09:10 PM
How cool is this?

From this:

http://www.bmwdetroit.com/images/New%20Models/2007/F800/F800S%20Red.jpg

To this:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r46/Motorbiker_photos/NewsPics/BMW-F800-flattrack.jpg

Katherine
11-04-2007, 09:11 PM
The answer is NO!:D

Ok, well maybe, if I get your life insurance.

Paul Pless
11-04-2007, 09:13 PM
that wasn't the question....

Katherine
11-04-2007, 09:15 PM
Yes, it's a cool bike. Very pretty dear. :rolleyes:

doorstop
11-04-2007, 09:19 PM
What a bloody waste!!!

Paul Pless
11-04-2007, 09:20 PM
What a bloody waste!!!
How very unamerican of you.;):p

botebum
11-04-2007, 09:21 PM
What a bloody waste!!!

The bike or the way those two get all mushy right in front of everybody:D

Doug

John Bertenshaw
11-04-2007, 09:25 PM
yup, I don't get it either.:D
whatisit? flat track.. is that like speedway? You going motorsicle racing Paul?

Katherine
11-04-2007, 09:25 PM
The bike or the way those two get all mushy right in front of everybody:D

Doug
Doug we're just here to amuse. :D

With that, I'll bid you gentlemen a goodnight and stop mucking up Paul's thread.:)

Paul Pless
11-04-2007, 09:30 PM
You going motorsicle racing Paul?Most definitely not going motorcycle racing. I love bikes, but I'm way to big, old, and fragile to play that particular racing game.

Flattrack racing is oval track racing - usually on dirt, sometimes on big ovals.

John Bertenshaw
11-04-2007, 09:40 PM
Most definitely not going motorcycle racing. I love bikes, but I'm way to big, old, and fragile to play that particular racing game.

Flattrack racing is oval track racing - usually on dirt, sometimes on big ovals.


Stilll sounds like speedway to me :p

as to the big old and fragile, thats ridiculous, how can you say that, you're not going all careful on us are ya.( what I really mean is good job stay away from em for all the reasons cited by the motorcyclists in the other thread)

Oh , did I tell you that my foot I busted up about a month or two ago is beginning to work quite well again now?
You can always tell when something is actually broken can't you.. there's pain and then there's bone pain.:D Not that I'm old and fragile or anything, or ,well ,maybe.

The Bigfella
11-04-2007, 09:53 PM
I keep thinking about a couple of engines floating around in my basement - there's a bored out and rebuilt R90S engine (and the rest of the bike - in pieces), there's a Shovelhead engine (in pieces - but the rest of the bike is together) ....... but I'm not putting any of it together like that.

My son is down in the basement at present - poring over a Subaru turbo wiring harness - learning, he is - but he should be up here studying for his calculus exam

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-04-2007, 10:28 PM
How cool is this?

From this:

http://www.bmwdetroit.com/images/New%20Models/2007/F800/F800S%20Red.jpg

To this:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r46/Motorbiker_photos/NewsPics/BMW-F800-flattrack.jpg

The fact that they made it doesn't mean it's worth anything. Mile and half-mile bikes are a peculiar breed and difficult to dial in.
Yamaha (remember them?) tried to convert their old 650 vertical twin into a front running 750 flat-tracker. Gobs of money and the greatest bike racer who ever lived, Kenney Roberts, in the saddle could not make it work.
Even Har-Dav had problems when they turned their old Sportster mill into the muscular XR 750. About ten years of dyno work got all the bugs out.
And, flat-track being a somewhat suicidal activity requires racers with ultra-large cajones.
By the way AMA Champ Bart Markel just died. Did ya' hear?

BrianW
11-04-2007, 10:31 PM
My son is down in the basement at present - poring over a Subaru turbo wiring harness - learning, he is - but he should be up here studying for his calculus exam

You sure he's not figuring out how to modify the Suburu wiring harness to make the R90S (whatever that is) work in the Hog?

The Bigfella
11-04-2007, 10:39 PM
You sure he's not figuring out how to modify the Suburu wiring harness to make the R90S (whatever that is) work in the Hog?

Hmm confirmation that there is no culture in Alaska!

An R90S is a sports version of the mid 70's BMW flat twins. Anyone with the slightest bit of culture would know that Brian!

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-04-2007, 10:45 PM
Stilll sounds like speedway to me :p

as to the big old and fragile, thats ridiculous, how can you say that, you're not going all careful on us are ya.( what I really mean is good job stay away from em for all the reasons cited by the motorcyclists in the other thread)

Oh , did I tell you that my foot I busted up about a month or two ago is beginning to work quite well again now?
You can always tell when something is actually broken can't you.. there's pain and then there's bone pain.:D Not that I'm old and fragile or anything, or ,well ,maybe.

They race on dirt. Miles and half miles. Most of the tracks are horse tracks at county fair grounds. The surfaces vary greatly and it takes a specialist a couple of weeks to turn the surface into something that will (hopefully)support the speeds on the straights and the sliding in the corners. Mile bikes touch 150 mph on the straights and broadslide the ends at about 90. Because the tracks are third rate trotting tracks it is not uncommon for the surface to start to disintegrate about half way thru' the program.
As the decades have rolled by there are fewer and fewer who desire to do it. The risks are so great if you are not a pro by the time you are 16 you will probably be too sensible to ever be good at it. And the pay-offs are not that good. Kenny Roberts made way more as a road racer than he ever did at flat track and he was a AMA Champion.

PeterSibley
11-04-2007, 10:58 PM
Wot !! Bms have twin flat opposed and they're black ...that's a Honda !

The Bigfella
11-04-2007, 11:11 PM
Wot !! Bms have twin flat opposed and they're black ...that's a Honda !


I think you missed my earlier drifting of this thread Peter

PeterSibley
11-04-2007, 11:20 PM
That was just Brian displaying cultural awareness !

BrianW
11-04-2007, 11:29 PM
Wot !! Bms have twin flat opposed and they're black ...that's a Honda !

Come on! Everyone knows that the black engines are Mercurys and Suzukis. Honda are silver.

Sheesh... and you guys say we have no culture.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-05-2007, 03:06 AM
How cool is this?

From this:

http://www.bmwdetroit.com/images/New%20Models/2007/F800/F800S%20Red.jpg

To this:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r46/Motorbiker_photos/NewsPics/BMW-F800-flattrack.jpg

Fairly cool and that is probably a great street engine

But this was seriously cool and not an XS650 (XS2) either
http://www.tz350.net/images/frames/champion_framed_tz750_roberts.jpg

The Bigfella
11-05-2007, 03:48 AM
OK mate - bit grainy there ..... Suzi waterbottle? TZ Yammie?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-05-2007, 03:50 AM
The legendary Roberts TZ750.

Afficianados will be paying particular attention to the somewhat novel front brake.

The Bigfella
11-05-2007, 03:55 AM
Yeah - the stripes on the tank, the engine and pipes all made me think of the TZ. I used to do bike racing photography back in the late 70's so the engine had a definite familiar look to it - but never saw one in that sort of setup. No front brake needed for dirt-tracking. Our speedway bikes here have no brakes at all IIRC - they just use compression braking

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-05-2007, 04:03 AM
they just use compression braking

Lots of that on a TZ.

PeterSibley
11-05-2007, 04:23 AM
A nightmare ...keeping it vertical anyway ! 150 hp ...on ,what ,140kg ...on the dirt !

The Bigfella
11-05-2007, 04:29 AM
Who said anything about keeping it vertical?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-05-2007, 04:31 AM
I found this

Subtle.

http://www.vft.org/RouitMuseum/Gallery/037TracHonda-187r_9211.jpg
(http://www.vft.org/RouitMuseum/Gallery/YamahaHonda.html)

PeterSibley
11-05-2007, 04:38 AM
Who said anything about keeping it vertical?
Vertical is anything but totally horizontal :D

PeterSibley
11-05-2007, 04:41 AM
I found this

Subtle.

http://www.vft.org/RouitMuseum/Gallery/037TracHonda-187r_9211.jpg
(http://www.vft.org/RouitMuseum/Gallery/YamahaHonda.html)
Not bad at all !:) Nice frame .

The Bigfella
11-05-2007, 05:37 AM
Turner would be spinning in his grave

The Bigfella
11-05-2007, 05:39 AM
A proper speedway bike
http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/jap/images/JAP%20500%20Speedway%201949.jpg

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-05-2007, 05:39 AM
Turner would be spinning in his grave

Take a long hard look at the crankcase - Turner had no hand in that.

The Bigfella
11-05-2007, 05:45 AM
Take a long hard look at the crankcase - Turner had no hand in that.


That's why I wrote what I did - its a Honda

PeterSibley
11-05-2007, 05:54 AM
Trackmaster frame and tank. 350cc Honda twin, 34mm Mikuni carbs,
Ceriani forks, Barnes wheels and no brakes. The bike was named the
Oriental Triumph for in a quick look it looked like a Triumph.
Bike restored by Carl "Poncho" Vincent.

Paul Pless
11-05-2007, 07:17 AM
Anybody notice the lack of frame on the BMW; everything attaches directly to the engine block, as in the V1000 Britten.

Tar Devil
11-05-2007, 09:14 AM
Didn't Harley produce, for a time, a street legal knock off of the XR 750?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-05-2007, 09:28 AM
Didn't Harley produce, for a time, a street legal knock off of the XR 750?

from memory - no.
They did make the rather dreadful XLCR (http://www.ironharley.com/xlcr.htm) back in the AMF days.

Lew Barrett
11-05-2007, 09:36 AM
Well, if it's a Honda, it's an Austrian built one, hand made frame by Ron Wood. That's a Rotax twin in that thar Beemer, making 90 HP through a pair of 43mm Mikunis (there are the Hinda bits!). Wood says he will be getting 100HP out of the lump shortly. With the whole shooting match at 320 pounds, it should be competitive with the JAP, you think? The frame? Hand made by Wood himself. And just who is Ron Wood? None other than the master miler maker hisself. This scooter will fly boys. I don't know if it will win or even ever race, but if credentials count, this one's got 'em. Paul; buy it! It is rather taller looking than the JAP though.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-05-2007, 09:47 AM
Fairly cool and that is probably a great street engine

But this was seriously cool and not an XS650 (XS2) either
http://www.tz350.net/images/frames/champion_framed_tz750_roberts.jpg

It may be cool but it's a classic case of a good idea that died aborning.
For the unititiated, that is Yamaha's answer to Kenny Robert's plea, "where's the horsepower". It's a mile bike with a 750cc 4-cylinder, 2-stroke road-racing motor. Probably detuned. Even so it had a 40-50 HP advantage over the competition. Roberts rode it and won but said, "never again".
After that the AMA changed the rules to twin-cylinder bikes only.
The 4-cylinder bike was Robert's swan song at the flat tracks. Yamaha saw the handwriting was on the wall so they sent Roberts to Europe to learn the road-racing trade and the rest is history.

Tar Devil
11-05-2007, 10:02 AM
from memory - no.
They did make the rather dreadful XLCR (http://www.ironharley.com/xlcr.htm) back in the AMF days.

Nah, that ain't it.

I remember straddling one in a showroom.

Paul Pless
11-05-2007, 10:42 AM
Tar Devil, are you thinking of Harley's XR1000? IIRC, it was a Sportster model with a 1000 cc engine derived from the XR750 engine parts bin (heads, cams, carbs, etc...).

The Gentleman Sawyer
11-05-2007, 10:47 AM
Chuck, I remember reading that Roberts, after his first ride on the TZ dirttracker, said "They don't pay me enough to ride that thing".

Ken

keelbolts
11-05-2007, 11:54 AM
I ride a '92 BMW R100RS. It's very forgiving of older guys like me. I know there's an element of risk there, but, the good news is, I'm too old to die young.

Lew Barrett
11-05-2007, 01:04 PM
GS rider here, but you all know that. Keelbolts, you may be too old to die young, but be careful out there, K? I find it's getting a bit stranger for me every day that I continue to ride. I'm very comfy in the saddle, which has started to give me pause.

keelbolts
11-05-2007, 03:00 PM
Thanks for your concern. After a 30 year hiatus, I've been riding for about a year. I was young and foolish back then and only escaped with my hide intact by good luck or God or whatever you think takes care of fools and drunks. I'm now old enough to know I am not bullet-proof, but not old enough to be fatalistic. Accordingly, I took a class, actually got a motorcycle license, and wear all the gear all the time. Wifey says I look like a middle aged power ranger.

Tar Devil
11-05-2007, 03:08 PM
Tar Devil, are you thinking of Harley's XR1000? IIRC, it was a Sportster model with a 1000 cc engine derived from the XR750 engine parts bin (heads, cams, carbs, etc...).

Might be... I've seen that bike, but can't remember if that was what I saw. It was a long time ago. I just remember liking the looks because it looked like the racing bike and the salesman telling me it was modeled on the XR 750.

No biggie... just curious.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-05-2007, 10:33 PM
Didn't Harley produce, for a time, a street legal knock off of the XR 750?

Kids!
Har-Dav built a street legal bike based on an XR750 motor.
They opened it up to 1000ccs, gave the heads to Jerry Branch for porting, mounted tuned intake and exhaust stacks, special frame and disc brakes but, kept the HP down to about 60. You could buy and install any of the XR 750 goodies, like pistons, carbs and cams, which could run the HP up to 106. Unfortunately, the bike came with the old high-front 2 gallon Sporster tank. It couldn't even go 100 miles without a fillup.
What was amazing to me was that Har-Dav lovers avoided them like the plague. The first models were only about $5000. A steal for what you got.
They continued to sell them until supplies were gone. It took numerous years. I recall the price got up to $7500. Still a steal. The only place I ever saw any street driven was in the infield at Daytona.
Some of these bikes were campaigned against the big European twins in the "Battle of the Twins" series. I don't think they ever did well against the likes of Ducati and Moto-Guzzi. Later on the AMA gave them their own class to run in.
The other bike mentioned was constructed on a flat track style frame but had a conventional single carb motor. I think they called it the CS1000. A good looker but not enough muscle to hold off the competition.

Tar Devil
11-05-2007, 10:46 PM
Har-Dav built a street legal bike based on an XR750 motor.
They opened it up to 1000ccs, gave the heads to Jerry Branch for porting, mounted tuned intake and exhaust stacks, special frame and disc brakes but, kept the HP down to about 60. You could buy and install any of the XR 750 goodies, like pistons, carbs and cams, which could run the HP up to 106. Unfortunately, the bike came with the old high-front 2 gallon Sporster tank. It couldn't even go 100 miles without a fillup.

Chuck, that's the bike Paul asked me about.