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TimH
10-29-2007, 05:32 PM
Who else thinks they should just change the clock 1/2 hour and leave it?

Phillip Allen
10-29-2007, 05:37 PM
daylight savings time is a sneaky way of leaving the lights on in the chicken house...more light, fatter chickens to butcher...

Nanoose
10-29-2007, 05:39 PM
Makes more of a difference at more northerly lats. I am finding it AWFULLY HARD getting up in the dark!!!

Backfin
10-29-2007, 05:44 PM
UTC.

Right after we adopt the metric system of course.

Michael Beckman
10-29-2007, 05:47 PM
I despise daylight savings time. For someone that operates on a primarily nocturnal schedule, it means I get about 4-5 hours of sunlight in the winter. :(

elf
10-29-2007, 05:49 PM
I think we should eliminate standard time, so none of the choices is worth my vote. I'd vastly rather get up in the dark than have the sun going down at 4 in the afternoon.

Phillip Allen
10-29-2007, 05:50 PM
What is it about folks that they think they can engineer the earth better than nature?

Keith Wilson
10-29-2007, 06:25 PM
What is it about folks that they think they can engineer the earth better than nature?Silly. Hours and clocks are a human invention; nothing to do with nature. The sun comes up when it comes up whatever number we put on it. It's about deciding (collectively) when to get up and go to bed. I agree with elf. Better to get up in the dark (which I'll do anyway by December) than lose the extra hour of daylight.

Phillip Allen
10-29-2007, 06:33 PM
Mid day is mid day the world over...nothing to do with savings time

Mrleft8
10-29-2007, 06:42 PM
Facts is facts.....It's the same damned amount of light, whether you don't get it in the morning, or you don't get it in the afternoon. Personally I'd rather have the afternoon light......I'm not a morning person.

Bruce Taylor
10-29-2007, 06:56 PM
Mid day is mid day the world over...nothing to do with savings time

And what time should the clock say when midday comes around?

Backfin
10-29-2007, 07:08 PM
UTC ; Depends on where you are?

Ron Williamson
10-29-2007, 07:09 PM
And what time should the clock say when midday comes around?
The clock shouldn't say anything,ever.
You should have to look at it.
R

Bruce Taylor
10-29-2007, 07:12 PM
The clock shouldn't say anything,ever.

Mine keeps saying they're out to get me.

Ron Williamson
10-29-2007, 07:19 PM
Too much time spent down cellar,gluing wee blocks of wood...
R

Bruce Taylor
10-29-2007, 07:56 PM
Too much time spent down cellar,gluing wee blocks of wood...
R

And listening to the CBC, hour after hour. If Shelagh Rogers interviews one more freaking choreographer I'm going to snap.

JimD
10-29-2007, 08:01 PM
The real problem is there aren't enough hours in a day. There should be at least 25. And the years go by too quickly, too. Three hundred and sixty five days just isn't enough. I could use at least four hundred.

JimD
10-29-2007, 08:02 PM
If Shelagh Rogers interviews one more freaking choreographer I'm going to snap.

Maybe you'd rather listen to art gallery curators.

Bruce Taylor
10-29-2007, 08:07 PM
Maybe you'd rather listen to art gallery curators.

Or a guy who's just written the libretto for an opera about an art gallery curator...

JimD
10-29-2007, 08:30 PM
Or a guy who's just written the libretto for an opera about an art gallery curator...

:D I feel your pain.

Phillip Allen
10-29-2007, 08:38 PM
And what time should the clock say when midday comes around?


Noon Bruce...but before we get into changing from our time zones let me say that they are more or less an average for those zones...it still represents mid day...mid day does not come an hour after the sun reaches it's zenith or an hour before either...

Keith Wilson
10-29-2007, 10:17 PM
And where is it written that the clock has to show 12:00 noon when the sun is highest? We assign those numbers for our benefit, and we can say that the sun is highest at one or two or six if we want to. This isn't about nature. The sun doesn't care.

Bruce Taylor
10-29-2007, 10:24 PM
And where is it written that the clock has to show 12:00 noon when the sun is highest? We assign those numbers for our benefit, and we can say that the sun is highest at one or two or six if we want to. This isn't about nature. The sun doesn't care.

Bingo.

High C
10-29-2007, 10:29 PM
How about a system whereby all clocks somehow sense the rising of the sun, and set that day's time accordingly. At, say 6AM. That way, regular activities could be scheduled to happen at the same time every day, relative to sunrise, instead of to an arbitrary time standard that is inconsistent with the sun.

Now, how to get all those clocks to cooperate...

elf
10-29-2007, 10:32 PM
The real problem is there aren't enough hours in a day. There should be at least 25. And the years go by too quickly, too. Three hundred and sixty five days just isn't enough. I could use at least four hundred.
Actually, the real problem is that the week is too short. There should be 9 days in a week, 5 for work and 4 for the weekend!

The Bigfella
10-29-2007, 11:46 PM
Actually, the real problem is that the week is too short. There should be 9 days in a week, 5 for work and 4 for the weekend!

Well, our local police force seem to have that worked out. They work 4 x 12 hour shifts - then get six days off. Most of them have second jobs too.

MiddleAgesMan
10-30-2007, 12:05 AM
When we finally go metric I think it should apply to the calendar as well.

We need to redefine seconds, minutes, hours and days, say, 100 seconds to the minute, 100 minutes to the hour, and 10 (or 20) hours to the day. We'll make months consist of whatever multiple of 10 days works out, and we'll have 10 (or 20) months.

What say you? ;)

Michael Beckman
10-30-2007, 01:24 AM
Metric calendar would be a huge change. To big of a change from the current standard would be impossible to implement.

Ron Joslin
10-30-2007, 01:35 AM
Use a calendar from 1957 and every thing will be OK.

Mrleft8
10-30-2007, 08:24 AM
The real question is.......When is high tide? ;)

TimH
11-03-2007, 07:10 AM
Scientists shed light on effects of clock change

By TOM PAULSON (tompaulson@seattlepi.com)
P-I REPORTER
Thanks to our planet's cockeyed position relative to the sun, residents of the latitude-disadvantaged Pacific Northwestwill set their clocks to "fall back" an hour this weekend to shift our shrinking allotment of winter light to the morning side by taking it away from the end of the day.
The time change was altered by federal legislation to persist for one month longer this year, based on the debatable presumption that this will reduce energy consumption by about 1 percent. It goes into effect at 2 a.m. Sunday.
The change stems from an energy bill that lengthened daylight saving by four weeks. It kicked in this year with clocks rolling ahead by one hour on the second Sunday in March, rather than the first Sunday of April. They'd typically be set back on the last Sunday in October, but that changed, too, to the first Sunday in November.
Scientists say this twice-a-year manipulation of time, whether on a new schedule or not, definitely has some downsides. This is largely due to our body's multiple biological clocks, which evolved to operate according to the sun's behavior.
"Morning light is the most important light for synchronizing our circadian rhythms," said Dr. David Avery, a psychiatrist at the University of Washington who specializes in studying the connection between light, sleep and depression. Circadian rhythm refers to the 24-hour cycle for life on Earth.
When daylight-saving time is in effect and reduces the amount of morning light, Avery said, the risk of seasonal depression in some people increases. He said traffic accidents might also be expected to increase as morning commuters struggle against biology.
"It's not natural to wake up in the dark," he said. "What our ancestors did was wake up at dawn, whenever dawn came."
This, Avery said, is hardwired into our brain and it doesn't simply adjust in our bodies when we adjust the alarm clock.
"From a biological point of view, it really doesn't make any sense to do daylight-saving time," agreed Horacio de la Iglesia, a UW neurobiologist who studies how the brain governs some of the other biological clocks in the body.
Most people know the brain operates according to a biological clock on this 24-hour solar cycle. De la Iglesia has shown that the human body actually depends upon many such clocks, a coordinated network that needs to work in synchronicity.
"There are biological clocks in the liver, lungs and other organs as well," he said. "We have these circadian rhythms because they allow the body to anticipate cyclical events."
For example, he said, the adrenal gland releases the stress hormone cortisol before you wake up every morning to move the stored sugar, glucose, from the cells into the bloodstream.
"That helps get you going," de la Iglesia said. Some of these biological clocks can adjust fairly rapidly to changes in the light-dark cycle (recovering from jet lag, for example) but others appear to persist longer, he said.
Woodruff Sullivan, a UW astronomer who spends a lot of time thinking about time, agreed that shifting clock time back and forth an hour twice a year is not really necessary. But because Sullivan regards clock time in general as hardly natural, he figures one more manipulation is OK.
"I already have pretty weird hours," he said. "I like the idea of shifting daylight to fit when people are up."
The reason those of us living in the northern latitude have less daylight in winter (and more in summer), Sullivan noted, is because the Earth is tilted relative to the sun. As it moves around the sun in its orbit, the planet in summer is tilted so that the northern latitude gets more daylight. In winter, it's tilted away and gets less daylight for every 24 hours.
Clock time didn't really exist for most people until the early 19th century, Sullivan said. Time before then was purely a local thing, he said, set by the movement of the sun.
"A sundial gave them local solar time," said Sullivan, who happens to be a big fan of sundials
For many years, Sullivan has helped install sundials throughout the Northwest and other parts of the world -- and even on another world. The UW astronomer, along with popular science personality Bill Nye, convinced NASA to put a sundial on its Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity.
From a scientific standpoint, daylight-saving time, the maps showing time zones with hard boundaries and the concept of "coordinated universal time" (previously, Greenwich Mean Time) are in concept actually no less arbitrary than the decision by some communities to not play by these rules. Arizona and Hawaii, for example, don't observe daylight-saving time.
Despite the potential adverse health effects of changing the clocks, Avery said he doesn't see most communities in the northern latitudes seeking to abandon the convention.
"If we were to remain on Pacific Standard Time year-round, from June 11 to June 21 the sun would rise at about 4 a.m. and set at approximately 8 in the evening," he said. "That wouldn't be good."
Avery said his primary concern is with the timing and one-month extension of this year's approach to shifting the clock. The net effect, he said, is that there will be more days of morning darkness this year come spring.
As a doctor, he recommended that those who find this change difficult turn on the lights upon awakening and turn them down before retiring in the evening. The dark-light cycle, Avery said, can be adjusted to some extent.
And stop staring at your "Microsoft Blue" computer screen late at night, he said. Blue light appears to suppress the hormone melatonin, Avery said, which is released by the body to induce sleep.
"I've changed my screen background to orange, which subtracts blue light," Avery said.

Michael s/v Sannyasin
11-03-2007, 08:33 AM
And where is it written that the clock has to show 12:00 noon when the sun is highest?

Bowditch's

S/V Laura Ellen
11-03-2007, 08:38 AM
Bowditch's

So it would be fine then to have then next large town over 10 minutes ahead/behind your town. Two people meeting at the side of the road between the two towns would have to coordinate the time.
"I'll meet you at 11:55 your time or 12:05 mine time or noon at the side of the road.":eek:
Sure that would greatly simplify the situation.:D

Gary E
11-03-2007, 08:42 AM
Move to Indiana... and you can chose your own time zone

The choises used to be...Eastern, Centeral, and Railroad... was fun driving through little towns and seeing how the locals determined what the time was...

S/V Laura Ellen
11-03-2007, 08:45 AM
Move to Indiana... and you can chose your own time zone

I always like Newfoundland's time zone (different by 30 minutes), That would explain why Popeye is the way he is (assuming there is a valid explanation).

botebum
11-03-2007, 09:03 AM
In all seriousness, I say keep it as is. The thought of my kid standing out by the road, in the dark, waiting for the schoolbus, worries me.

Doug

Phillip Allen
11-03-2007, 09:21 AM
maybe we should go on a 20 hour day...we'd get to have the same pay for fewer hours! Over time would be tough though