Uncas on Craigslist

[Hwyl]

$52,000. I'll stand back. (http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/436843797.html)

[bamamick]

Even I get a little emotional about seeing that. I can just imagine how some of the good folks here will feel.

Mickey Lake

[S/V Laura Ellen]

I thought Jamie donated the boat to a wooden boat school. Are they trying to sell Uncas without fixing it? Seems like a big price for a boat that needs a good deal of repairs.

[Hwyl]

I thought Jamie donated the boat to a wooden boat school. Are they trying to sell Uncas without fixing it? Seems like a big price for a boat that needs a good deal of repairs.
You've got it. That's pretty much their modus operandi.

With apologies to Hughman

[Paul Girouard]

I'd assume they , WBS ,would have aboard of directors who based on

#1 The needs of the school .

#2: Local folks who looked the boat over opinions .

#3: The sale potential vs thier "in house" needs and abilities (staff / workers on staff) that the sale of the boat was possibly the best bet at meeting all those needs / requirements. And getting the boat fixed.

So maybe they hope it sells adding dollars to the school needs , or if it doesn't they "know" they won't be able to "get to work on it" for any number of years with the work load and staff they are working with. So figure what the heck sell it now , or work on it in 2 or 3 years if it doesn't sell.

I could be wrong , maybe they just rip off hapless wooden boat owner that want / need to dump thier boats instead of burning the boat in the first place.

Your opinion may vary , maybe you should ask IF there are positions on the leadship / board of directors if you think / know :confused:/ they are just a rip off outfit.

[JAS]

$52,000 ----"Slightly " more than the $15,000 its been listed for right along on their web site -- Atlanticchallenge.com :rolleyes:

[Hwyl]

It seems to me that they have an obligation to fulfil the wishes of the donor and not be a tax deduction donation mill, which is what it appears to me.

Paul, you are presuming that I'm posting from a position of no knowledge. I'm afraid you may be mistaken in this instance.

[Paul Girouard]

It seems to me that they have an obligation to fulfil the wishes of the donor and not be a tax deduction donation mill, which is what it appears to me.

Paul, you are presuming that I'm posting from a position of no knowledge. I'm afraid you may be mistaken in this instance.

Could be , I was assuming they had some type of board , maybe Jamie should have dug deeper , maybe it doesn't matter to him. It is just a wooden boat , maybe he was happy to be "out from under it" what ever it took. Thats not the overall impression I got from his post last year , or the year before when ever it was he was ringing his hands over it!

So in your opinion they are "setting up " people in a way?? For this type thing.

[Hwyl]

$52,000 ----"Slightly " more than the $15,000 its been listed for right along on their web site -- Atlanticchallenge.com :rolleyes:

You're right

34' Hinckley Sou'Wester
Price:$15,000 (1948) “Uncas” LOA: 34' LWL: 25' Beam: 9' 2" Draft: 4' 10" Classic Hinkley custom sloop. Traditional plank-on-frame construction. Great coastal cruiser; was in the water in 2005. Needs new rudder post and horn timber.


They appear to be the seller on Craigslist however, a dichotomy I do not understand.

[Hwyl]

Could be , I was assuming they had some type of board , maybe Jamie should have dug deeper , maybe it doesn't matter to him. It is just a wooden boat , maybe he was happy to be "out from under it" what ever it took. Thats not the overall impression I got from his post last year , or the year before when ever it was he was ringing his hands over it!

So in your opinion they are "setting up " people in a way?? For this type thing.

I'm assuming you meant "wringing " his hands.
No it was clear on here that Jamie thought it would be used in their teaching programs. Yet they offered it for sale immediately.

I've known of other people that this has happened to.

This is what their website says

Atlantic Challenge seeks donations of power and sail boats to support our students and programs. We accept boats that we can use in our Community Sailing Program, as restoration projects and for teaching seamanship to our apprentices and other students. Boats are also used to support our programs financially.

I read the "also" to mean a small minority of boats, not the majority as seems to be the case.

[StevenBauer]

Who would pay $52,000 when she's listed with a broker for $15,000?
I saw her in August, looking pretty sad. Seams opening up, uncovered, I felt bad for her. :(

Steven

[Mrleft8]

As instructed by my attorney, I shall refuse to comment on this matter, as it may lead to physical harm to myself or others.....

[Paul Girouard]

#1: I'm assuming you meant "wringing " his hands.
This is what their website says


#2: I read the "also" to mean a small minority of boats, not the majority as seems to be the case.




#1: Yes wringing :rolleyes:, so that thru you off, :confused: the lack of the "W", holy $hit batman your easliy thrown off task! Lawyer by trade???:rolleyes: :D

#2: Seems to me to be clear as a bell. They sell some , just like I assumed MTL based on all the parameters and more , I'd think , as my list was just"off the top" of my pin head.

I'd assume the later , more sold, than "in house worked apon" . They are a school so labor would be students not skilled workers , so I'd assume more sales, less rebuilds due to labor issue. As in lack there of skilled workers = less production per worker with "skilled " help doing more training . Less really restoring being done due to same lack of skilled help.

I'd say they have met or exceeded expectations , "The good of the many , out weight the needs of the few! " Spock , not Doctor but actor / role player from Star trek , just so I don't "throw you off ".

[Paul Girouard]

[quote=StevenBauer;1668330] Seems opening up, :(

/quote]

Let me guess "seams" RIGHT! what ya think Hwyl?

Sorry Steven I was thrown off task :D

[Hwyl]

As instructed by my attorney, I shall refuse to comment on this matter, as it may lead to physical harm to myself or others.....

I'm going to emulate Lefty.

[paladin]

along these same lines.......the appearance of an impropriety in handling the situation is the reason that The Cowboy Hall of Fame and the Smithsonian and I are on the outs. Both collect "gifts" and then auction them off.....when they have a hundred copies stashed in the attic.

[brad9798]

I am ashamed that even WOOD boat folks are on the take!

I can see a fraud case developing!

:(

[rbgarr]

Wish I could find the old thread on the decisions about UNCAS' disposition.

I am quite positive, as a former Apprenticeshop staff member, that I wrote here that unless UNCAS was purchased by someone who requested that repairs be done at the Apprenticeshop, that the Shop for all intents and purposes does not have funds to repair a large boat on speculation, for repair training purposes or for use in their programs. They definitely have limited space for the inside storage that would pretty much be required for an UNCAS type project.

I listed these considerations at the time UNCAS future was undecided and was subsequently very surprised to see her go to the Apprenticeshop, given what I understood Jamie's wishes for her future to be.

The CL ad's inclusion of her as a candidate for their charter/sale program indicates to me that they are interested in repairing and managing her charters themselves if possible.

The pricing mystifies me however since the following boats are listed 'nearby' on Maine Craigslist/Boats for less or equal terms in significantly better condition (one is even the boat stored cheek by jowl with UNCAS):

http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/436847321.html

http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/436387167.html

http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/430779781.html

[TimH]

Well they simply wont get that much.

[Figment]

Do people with $50k to blow on a boat shop Craigslist?

[StevenBauer]

I really wonder what is up here. Uncas is still listed on the AC website for $15k. Hughman, what can you find out for us?

Steven

[shamus]

Someone misheard "fifteen" as "fif' two"
Tousand, tat is.

[StevenBauer]

Has anyone followed up on this? Hugh?

Steven

[Mrleft8]

I asked Jaime about it. He was unaware and pretty pissed off. Apparently they aren't legally allowed to put her up for sale for another year at least.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Jaime abandoned the boat anyway... what does he care?

[pcford]

Errr. I think we have the makings of a cautionary tale here.

[Figment]

I don't understand the beef. Aren't they advertising for a patron? someone to fund the work and then take custody of the boat in keeping with their charter/sale program?

Where is the misalignment?

[Vince Brennan]

Jamie did post back in early December of '06 that the boat would be for sale, but that it wouldn't happen for two years, IIRC. Lemme go lookin...

Aha.

holzbt... The Bolger went to a boat school.. It is or will be for sale.. What the glitch is, is that the baot school has to have her on their books for two years.... dual ownership so to speak... I'm not confortable with that idea....but only know the basics as to what this system is.. not how it nec. works...

Whatever. I wish him well and lucky with Airlie in the future, and fair winds to a most constant correspondent.

[pcford]

Jaime abandoned the boat anyway... what does he care?

There is some restriction on claiming an IRS write-off if the receiving organization does not keep the boat for a certain amount of time.

[Yeadon]

Someone misheard "fifteen" as "fif' two"
Tousand, tat is.

Sounds like a typo.

[Atlantic Challenge]

On behalf of Atlantic Challenge, I would like to address the recent topic of vessel donations that has been confused by many. I will post this information to the forum but will not be available to respond in the future to posts, as we do not regularly participate in online forums. We are however, always available through email, phone, or in person. We encourage interested parties to please contact us and we would be more than happy to discuss our donation procedures with you or someone you know that might benefit from supporting traditional maritime skills.

The IRS and our Board of Directors govern our donation procedures. The staff of Atlantic Challenge manages them.

As stated on our website, “Atlantic Challenge seeks donations of power and sailboats to support our students and programs. We accept boats that we can use in our Community Sailing Program, as restoration projects and for teaching seamanship to our apprentices and other students. Boats are also used to support our programs financially”.

We endeavor to make our programs accessible regardless of financial considerations. Our ability to offer educational opportunities is largely dependent upon our supporters, many of whom generously donate their time and other kinds of assistance.

We receive vessels directly from individual donors and we occasionally work with other organizations that bring us vessel donations.

IRS rules and regulations (summarized):

1. We must keep the vessel for a minimum of three years from the date of donation or
2. If we are choosing to sell a vessel before the end of the three years, we must sell the vessel for the amount that the donor claims. That means any vessel that we sell within three years, is sold at the value the donor claims. For vessels over $5,000.00, Atlantic Challenge cannot determine the value. A valuation survey (by a licensed surveyor) is required to determine the amount a donor can claim.
3. If a vessel is sold after three years, typically it is sold at a fair market value.

We work closely with donors before receiving gifts to establish the best-case scenario for both our organization and the donor’s needs. Not all vessels fit within the scope of our donated boat programs.

I hope this helps provide a little clarity on the subject.

Thank you,

Cullen Teel
Waterfront Programs Director

P.S. The 16’ Crocker ‘Katy’ is likely being commissioned to be restored in our ‘Shop. Look for her on the water sometime soon!

[Figment]

Mr. Teel,
While I think it's great that you would take the time to sign into the forum in attempt to clarify the issue, I'm baffled that you would waste your time on such a non-answer.

Really, why bother to explain the process without taking that next half-step of setting the record straight on the status of Uncas and this craigslist nonsense?

(yeah, I know, "don't regularly participate in forums". I've emailed as well.)

[BrianY]

As someone who deals with donations of expenisve items (pianos) to my organization, I have a bit of understanding about how these things work. Keep inmind that I do not know the specifics of this organization or the donation in question, so I can only give an educated generalization as to what might be going on here.

Unless the donor works out a specific restriction as to how the donated item may be used, how long it is to kept, how it will disposed of, what will be done to it once it's donated, etc. the receiving organization is free to do with the item whatever it deems appropriate. As Mr. Teel explained above, there are some restrictions that must be followed, but nothing in his organization's statement about donations precludes them from selling donated boats; see "Boats are also used to support our programs financially”. If the donor intended/desired that the boat should be repaired and used by the school, he should have had that stipulated in the donation documents as a restriction on the gift.

The discrepancy in the selling prices in the two listings may be the result of the difference between the appraised value of the boat and the market value. Presumably, the donor claimed a tax deduction based on the appraised value of the boat at the time of the donation (for high priced items, the donor - not the receiving organization - is required to supply the appraisal) If the boat is sold within three years of the donation for less than the claimed value, the donor will have to revise his federal taxes to reflect the actual selling price of the boat. Needless to say, this is going to really piss him off. So the organization is trying to sell the boat at the appraised price. That the boat is still listed for sale on another site is very strange. Perhaps they are unaware that it is listed eleswhere and that broker is unaware of the donation? In any case, the price listed there reflects the perceived market value of the boat.

Selling for below the claimed value is legal, but it probably isn't wise from a strategic standpoint. If the boat sells for less than the appraised value (or whatever value the donor declared on his taxes), there's going to be hell to pay in terms of the damage to the reputation of the organization among prospective donors UNLESS they are able to work out some deal that will satisfy the donor and keep him quiet.

[Atlantic Challenge]

The status of Uncas is we are seeking a buyer to help support the restoration of this vessel.

[John Bertenshaw]

The status of Uncas is we are seeking a buyer to help support the restoration of this vessel.

zero to hero.
excellent!