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View Full Version : Taylors kerosene stove VS propane ?



stephen m
10-17-2003, 06:41 PM
The taylors preasurised kerosene 030 two burner stove with oven looks very nice but how is it to live with ? dose anyone use one ?

Frank Wentzel
10-17-2003, 06:45 PM
I never could stand the smell of a kerosene stove. I would go for propane - with all the usual precautions about using propane on a boat.

/// Frank ///

Meerkat
10-17-2003, 07:07 PM
The only person I've known to have a kerosene stove swapped out out for a propane model because it sooted up his overhead something fierce. I've since heard that that is a symptom of not starting it up correctly - which is a lot easier now than it was then, primarily due to the advent of those long butane fire lighters to fully preheat the burners.

I'm personally torn between kerosene and propane because there's a fairly significant chunk of change price difference if you include the gas tight locker, tankage, valves and plumbing. As I recall, the price of a Taylors (which includes the tank and plumbing) and an equivelent propane stove is about the same, but then you're out another $5-600 for the rest of the propane rig. Kerosene is cheaper to run too.

stephen m
10-17-2003, 07:09 PM
Do you think these Taylor stoves smell of kerosene or do all kerosene stoves smell? You know they have been making them in england for a very long time without a change. Maybe that's a good thing and maybe it is not !

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-17-2003, 07:39 PM
I have one.

To be slightly pedantic, there have been design changes - early stoves had cast iron bodies; today's stoves have stainless steel.

No it does not soot up the overhead; this is for two reasons:

1. If you light the stove properly and keep it clean it does not make a sooty flame

2. Like most sensible people I have a panel of 316 stainless, with insulation behind it, under the deck over both the galley stove and the cabin stove. It stops the wood deck drying out excessively due to the heat of the stove, and leaking.

I am not aware of any kerosene smell. Again, the trick is to light it properly and keep it reasonably clean.

The Taylor's stove burns rather hotter than a gas stove; there is no problem roasting or baking bread in the oven.

The top burners have cast iron enamelled simmering plates which are a good idea.

Consumption: 8 hours per burner per pint of kerosene. This means that it is quite practical to carry a large supply on board.

You will gather that I definitely like this piece of equipment.

May I put in a plug for their marine WC's and seacocks (Blakes) as well?

Bob Smalser
10-17-2003, 07:45 PM
Propane scares me because it sinks and collects in low spots when you have a leak.

Kerosene doesn't have to be dirty - the grade range between "stove oil" (don't even think about it) and hardware store K2 is significant....K2 is almost as dirty but at least you can light it.

Visit your local airfield some time and see if you can get some JP-4 jet fuel. They may have a tank of "contaminated" fuel that doesn't meet spec for water or was pumped out of an aircraft being worked on. Water sinks to the bottom and is no big deal if you allow that fuel to sit for a while.

And it's often free for the asking.

stephen m
10-17-2003, 07:59 PM
Andrew: is your stove iron,stainless or brass?
Are there any very good or bad points to the stove? Can you jury rig a preasure tank if you don't have one? You may have guessed that I am looking at a used one without a tank.

stephen m
10-17-2003, 08:09 PM
Hello Bob,
Are you telling me that jet fuel is what I want to put in a Taylors stove ? Andrew says it already burns hotter than propane.... How fast could I get a cup of coffee ?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-17-2003, 08:20 PM
Mine is brass and stainless, and I got it without a tank; I got a secondhand tank in another deal.

No, you really cannot and should not jury rig the tank installation or the piping to the stove; this is kerosene under pressure we are talking about. Get a new tank and run the right piping.

Buy the stove if the price is halfway reasonable; all the spares, and a couple of special tools, are available from Taylors, along with an excellent manual (which tends to assume that you are in mid-Pacific!)

Bob Smalser
10-17-2003, 10:47 PM
Are you telling me that jet fuel is what I want to put in a Taylors stove ? Try some first....it's the cat's meow in a wicked Aladin sleeping at night in a tent...no wakeups to soot-laden sneezing.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-18-2003, 04:52 AM
I've heard that jet fuel is very good, but have not tried it. One tip from Nigel Calder which I find to be true is - the clearer the kerosene, the better. The very yellowish stuff is a poorer grade.

Some grades are dyed - we used to have Esso Blue and Aladdin Pink here in Britain - that is quite a different thing to the yellow colour.

Low grade kero will soot things up more readily and, even worse, it will carbon up the burner pipes.

MarkC
10-18-2003, 06:15 AM
Origo 'The safest way to cook afloat'

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p9d56a7ef5ea9d9f84103bed42859ca17/facba354.jpg

Quote 'About our company';

In Halmstad, Sweden, we develop and distribute non-pressurised stoves, ovens and portable heaters. The method is pressure-free alcohol, well known for safety and easy handling.
Simply pour denatured alcohol into the stainless steel container where fuel is absorbed and bound in a non-flammable wool material. Origo utilises natural capillary action to draw alcohol from storage to the surface. This means there is no dangerous pressure involved. Origo products are easy to handle, reliable and efficient with full power performance.

The Origo brand - a part of Dometic
and a substansial part of the overall product range within Dometic Marine.

Quote 'The Advantages'

On a boat, the demands on a stove are greater. It´s essential that it works all the time. The more parts and the more complicated the design, the greater risk of malfunctions. Origo stoves are designed to be "idiot proof", and work completely without pressure, which totally eliminates delicate parts that are likely to go wrong.

Every year reports reach us of boat fires, often with tragic consequences. Origo stoves have excellent built-in safety, thanks to their uncomplicated design, the un-pressurised burning and the connection free installation.

A boat stove should also be suitable for the situation in which it is used. Stability and strong pot holders , that can be adjusted easily, are important safety and convenience features. To be considered for use in a small boat at all, a stove must also be equipped with effective gimbals.

The high output is another good argument. All the denatured alcohol stoves have a maximum heating power output of 2000W (7000 BTU) per burner at full power, fully adjustable, and at maximum power a burning time of approx. 4,5 hours.

Durable, easy to maintain and elegant. The stainless steel surface simplifies cleaning and guarantees a long working life.

The Origo stove is easy to install and simple to use. No fuel pipes are required because the stove comes complete with integrated fuel tanks. No need for safety valves or testing for leaks. Just open the burner and ignite. It couldn´t be easier!

http://www.origo-sweden.com

US distributor:

Intercon Marketing Inc
1540 Northgate Blvd.
SARASOTA, FLORIDA 34234
Tel +1 941 355 44 88
Fax +1 941 355 15 58
info@interconmktg.com
www.interconmktg.com (http://www.interconmktg.com)

stephen m
10-18-2003, 06:19 AM
OK.... So.... what is jet fuel ?

Fishboat
10-18-2003, 07:53 AM
OK.... So.... what is jet fuel ? "Jet fuel" is one of the many different grades of kerosene.

Ian Wright
10-18-2003, 12:18 PM
I'm another fan of Taylor stoves and cabin heaters, I have both, and have used mine for 14 years. They are VERY expensive new, I would not wish to lose that amount of cash now.
Oh yes, I've used jet fuel and it works well, sadly my (free)source dried up.
IanW

Meerkat
10-18-2003, 02:04 PM
The downside with non-pressurized alcohol stoves like the Origo is that alcohol produces a very cool flame - it can take the flip side of forever to heat things up. I believe they also pump an even worse amount of water into the cabin than do proppane or kerosene stoves.

Stove alcohol is also very expensive.

Meerkat
10-18-2003, 02:06 PM
Andrew and Ian; you have both helped me see the light. If and when, mine will be a Taylors!

Frank E. Price
10-18-2003, 03:22 PM
Since 1970 I have tried to cook on a couple of alcohol stoves, and lived aboard for several years each with kerosene, propane, and diesel stoves. My experiences:

Kerosene - cheap, hot and dirty. Fiddly to light. Too hot for simmering without fooling with a flame disperser.

Propane - cheap, clean, and immediately hot and controllable.

Diesel - fiddly to light; hot enough, but you heat up the whole boat whether you want to or not; cheap, but you have to heat longer to get the stovetop up to temp, and controlling oven temp takes awhile; dirty, but more on deck rather than overhead, and only when things go awry. Proper installation is critical. Involves a learning curve.

In a cool climate I'd go for diesel, otherwise propane. If cooking were the only consideration I would say propane is far better than anything else. To me the ideal cruising boat would be a 42' pinky schooner with a wood stove in the forecastle and a propane range in the galley.

Frank

stephen m
10-18-2003, 05:09 PM
Frank,
Did you use a Taylors stove or one like it ? And is there a difference in the way various kero stoves behave.
What do you say Ian and Andrew and anyone else ?

Ian Wright
10-18-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by stephen m:
[QB]Frank,
And is there a difference in the way various kero stoves behave.
QB]I have used a number of Primus type stoves and an Origo alcohol (meths) stove. I hated the Origo. Slow to use and expensive to run. Taylor stoves, or rather the burners, need to be maintained, which involves cleaning the burners,,, or replace them every year or two. I like to pre-heat with a hand blowtorch and a propane/butaine mixture rather than alcohol.It's quicker and the burners last longer. Taylors do it that way,,,,,,
Find a good second hand one and fit new burners would be my advice.
Andrew is dead right about other Blakes products of course. Blakes seacocks are the best, the standard that others aim below.......

IanW

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-18-2003, 06:25 PM
Taylors use the same burner parts as other pressure kerosene stoves - indeed, there are only two makers of these in the world - one in Sweden and one in Portugal.

Yes they are dirtier than propane, and also hotter. I don't really agree about the "fiddly to light" bit, because you can put the pan, kettle, whatever on top of the burner whilst it is heating up, if like me you use alcohol for this (Ian uses a gas torch) so you use the heat that is pre-heating the burner to start cooking.

The Taylor's cast iron simmering plate works well and is simple.

No-one has been blown to bits by a kerosene stove, and no-one has been forced to eat cold food because the thread on the fitting on the bottle did not match the fitting on the system!

Frank E. Price
10-18-2003, 07:23 PM
Stephen,

I've never used a Taylor's stove. My kero stove was an RV type with Primus burners. For what it was it worked fine, until I hauled it out to the cockpit under sail and dropped it overboard. That was my happiest day with it.

I've had problems with all the stoves I've used, except the propane stove. But I suppose it depends on where you are, and where you're going. I haven't sailed far from propane suppliers or without a plentiful supply, or beyond the N. American west coast.

Best of luck. They all work anyway.

Frank

[ 10-18-2003, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Frank E. Price ]

Meerkat
10-18-2003, 08:07 PM
Looks like Defender Industries is no longer offering Taylors stoves in the US, alas.

Anyone know of other sellers?

stephen m
10-19-2003, 01:44 AM
I spoke to Defender 2 days ago and they still sell them. The fellow I spoke to said Taylors was having some problems getting orders out and if you order one you may need to wait for some weeks.
One of the things that got me started on Taylors stoves is that they seem to look the part for an old wooden boat like mine. Of course someone will always say, " do you want to look at it or use it ! ". But then why a wood boat ? I want to use it and I want to like it.
Franks idea of a propane aft and a wood burning Shipmate foward sound just right to me but on a 30 ft boat there can't be both.
In the best of all worlds I would have a very small wood burning Shipmate with a couple of burners swiched to propane. I don't think that has been done.
But almost everything involves a compromise. The Taylors I am looking at is all brass and looks great. with the kind help of all here I have come to find out that it also works.

I would never have thought to put jet fuel in such a stove.
So the guy in the airport says, "Why do you want just one gallon of fuel ?" To which I suppose I would reply," because am buying enough for the next six months.
Is that what to say?

many thanks,
Steve

Meerkat
10-19-2003, 02:04 AM
Steve thanks for the info/good news. I looked at Defender's website and they used to have them listed online, but they don't seem to now. Even searching their website didn't bring them up.

I don't recall how many pints are in a gallon (8?), but I think the 030 stove is listed as using .5pt/hr. 16 hours/gallon then?

BTW, are you thinking of the 030 or the 030L?

[ 10-19-2003, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

MarkC
10-19-2003, 05:04 AM
Metho stoves are bad??

'The high output is another good argument. All the denatured alcohol stoves have a maximum heating power output of 2000W (7000 BTU) per burner at full power, fully adjustable, and at maximum power a burning time of approx. 4,5 hours.'

Expensive?

I dont know about availability of Metho in the US but to buy Metho (in Australia) was AUS$2.50 per liter (75 cents US) available in every supermarket and hardware store.

Ian Wright
10-19-2003, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by MarkC:
Metho stoves are bad??

Expensive?

It's not the meths you burn that bothers me, it's the evaporation of the meths that is left that annoys.

IanW

Leon Steyns
10-19-2003, 06:37 AM
Origo is also sold in The Netherlands as Electrolux. Haven't used one myself, but a Waarschip-sailor I know uses a two-burner Electrolux and is very satisfied with it. Low fuel consumption, 1 liter will boil in about 6-7 minutes.

I don't like propane, too dangerous in a boat if you ask me.

Those Taylor stoves look very good, though. I guess they're like AGA cookers: buy once, use in the family for many generations.

Greets, Leon Steyns.

stephen m
10-19-2003, 09:14 AM
Meerkat,
The 030 is the right size for me and it is the one I have seen. It's in good condition but is missing the tank. Taylors ,in England, says not to juey rig the tank. So... I guess i'll try to find a tank.

MarkC
10-19-2003, 12:59 PM
Metho powered stoves/burners

Ian - I read this on the Origo site. It was from their FAQ. http://www.origo-sweden.com

Question =
'Do I have to put on the rubber gaskets after each cooking, so that the fuel won´t evaporate?

Answer =

No, the rubber gaskets are only necessary to use during winter storage, or when not using the stove for longer periods of time. At 30 degrees Celsius the evaporation is only a few grams every 24 hours.' End Quote.

It looks like you can place rubber seals in to stop all evaporation - say if your not going on the boat for 2 or more weeks.

This Origo/Dometic/Electrolux system looks like a serious alternative for LPG/Natural Gas/Propane/Butane (bottled gass) installations. No gass alarms needed, no Professional installation required. The catch is that meths stoves are slower, but less expensive, safer, less complex - a propane burner boils water in 4 mins a meths burner in 8 mins...

Expensive to run - no it wasn't for me - You dont need special 'stove fuel' - try to buy your ethanol/methanol in bulk - us Aussies are lucky with cheap meths coming from our Ethanol industry (that good old sugar cane!)

Origo also offer a half meths, half electricity when elect is available.

And as for needing a propane blow torch or bottle of alcohol to preheat and light a diesel or other cooker :eek: - sounds a bit too much to me. Use the meths stove - its even easier than a wood stove.

[ 10-19-2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: MarkC ]

Gerald
10-19-2003, 06:42 PM
The tread is listed as "Taylors kerosene stove VS propane ?". There is a a lot of information here about Taylors but what about the VS propane part? Frank was a live aboard and loved propane. One person states that propane is too dangerous but stopped short of explaining why.
So, Taylor stoves are cute and would be tricky to say that I have one in my classic sailboat.
Would like to hear the down side of propane that drives someone to buy the more expensive and troublesome Taylor. Maybe Lloyds of London won't insure boats with propane??? Guess my real question is this: I have propane bottles enclosed in a stainless steel box with a rubber hose running from the box to my stove. I fill my own bottles and control the pressure. Should I tear that mess out of the boat and install a Taylor?
Gerald Niffenegger

Bob Smalser
10-19-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Gerald:
One person states that propane is too dangerous but stopped short of explaining why.
From above:


Propane scares me because it sinks and collects in low spots when you have a leak.

Gerald
10-19-2003, 07:05 PM
Good point Bob. Please correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding there is an additive in propane to make it smell, so that you will know when you have a leak. Then again maybe you mean when in use it stinks? The smell of diesel or kerosene is not my list of favorite smells inside a boat. However, my 20+ gallon tank could leak and fill the bilge with that smelly stuff.
That part about the gas settling in low places, if there is a leak, is the kicker.
Gerald

Gerald
10-19-2003, 07:19 PM
Bob I read your message as stinks instead of sinks. Sorry
Gerald

Lulworth
10-19-2003, 08:34 PM
Sorry if this is a departure from the choice provided in the title but I am going to put in a cautious vote in favor of pressurized alcohol (with a remote tank). The real measure of value of a stove is how long it takes to boil a pot of water and that depends on how many btu's can be delivered through burning the fuel. This can be increased either by increasing the heat content of the fuel and/or increasing the delivery rate of that fuel (and oxygen). Pressurized alcohol gets over its low heat content problem by increasing the delivery rate of the fuel. My impression (I haven't measured it) is that pressurized alcohol boils water as fast (in terms of my perception in the morning waiting for coffee) as any other that I've used (propane and diesel). Un-pressurized alcohol is practically useless. The trick to alcohol (and any other stove fuel that is liquid at room temperature-- like, say, kero and diesel) is to get the feed tube that passes over the burner preheated enough to vaporize the liquid … this must be done carefully. As I’m sure most folks here know, the procedure for pressurized alcohol is to bleed a bit of liquid into a tray laying below the burner, light the liquid, then after the flames die down a bit (give enough liquid for 1-2 minutes) turn on the fuel and cook away. Why, just earlier this month {caution, a bit of a tale coming here but be patient, there is a point} a friend and I were exiting cape cod canal on a moonless night at 2:00 am into a heck of a standing wave pattern created by the Buzzards bay rollers interacting with a strong counter current when the engine (an atomic four) died of stirred-up-crud-disease causing us to hastily hoist the sails and proceed to tack up the relatively narrow channel. By the time we had cleared the oncoming tug and its tow and were well into Buzzard’s bay, I felt we deserved a bit of something. We had a packet of Raman noodles so my crew proceeded to fire-up the pressurized stove. The key to the above mentioned lighting procedure is to use only a bit of liquid but, alas (no blame here, it can happen to anyone) too much was released (it’s hard to see) and on our then course the flames started licking the galley cabin sides/ceiling. The solution was another quick tack so that, the now 3 foot flames, passed happily out the companionway hatch. It was quite a remarkable sight, at night from the wheel, to see flames dancing out of the below-decks but it was short lived and no harm was done and we had our noodles (which, by the way, only taste good on a cold night on a boat or a mountain). The point here is that any fuel can be dangerous. Propane (like gasoline vapor) is heavier than air and will settle in the bilge mixing with air waiting to turn your boat into huge potato cannon. The danger of any liquid fuel is the need to preheat the delivery tube. None of these liquid fuels will blow up so the potential accidents happen slowly enough that they can be dealt with with common sense. So, if treated carefully, alcohol in a remote pressure tank with a shut off valve at the tank, works great and is much safer than propane and, in my albeit limited experience, is less smelly than Kero or Diesel.

Apologies for taking this thread on a wordy detour,

David.

Meerkat
10-19-2003, 09:45 PM
I belive that both propane and natural gas have an additive that gives it that characteristic rotten onion smell (not at all like the rotten egg smell of methane).

Lion
10-19-2003, 10:29 PM
Have used both and have reservations with both -
- LPG/Propane can be dangerous in confined spaces: lit a caravan stove many years ago and blew my eyebrows off and my 3 year old daughter out the door - slow, undetected leak.
- Taylors type kero/parraffin, can be real messy and fiddly to start. And they can soot, I've done it!!

If I was living aboard and was serious about food and cooking I would be looking at the Wallas diesel stoves. No need for additional fuel scource, electronic ignition, low fuel consumption, very easily cleaned ceramic cooktops, gimballing option and venting for both combustion air intake and exhaust. www.wallas.fi (http://www.wallas.fi) I undrestand that they are pricey but then quality is never cheap !

Lion

Meerkat
10-19-2003, 10:48 PM
Lion, I take these are not the traditional diesel stoves with the drip burners (?) and 12 or 24 volt force draft that some require and that take a long time to heat up?

Bob Smalser
10-19-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Lion:
Have used both and have reservations with both -
- LPG/Propane can be dangerous in confined spaces: lit a caravan stove many years ago and blew my eyebrows off and my 3 year old daughter out the door - slow, undetected leak.
- Taylors type kero/parraffin, can be real messy and fiddly to start. And they can soot, I've done it!!
LionAnd if there's ever an accident, you can't see alcohol flames.

For BTU power per weight, nothing beats gasoline, still the standard for tent heaters within US Army Alaska in the form of the Yukon Stove.

But gasoline requires a stack and those fumes, just like propane, easily kill in a slight mishap. That's why many of us used private kerosene Aladdins burning aviation JP4. Close to the BTUs w/o the need for a stack or an all-night fire watch.

Aramas
10-20-2003, 01:58 AM
dont know about availability of Metho in the US but to buy Metho (in Australia) was AUS$2.50 per liter (75 cents US) available in every supermarket and hardware store I want to know where you get your money changed :cool: At todays rates $2.50AUD is $1.75USD.

The deal with alcohol vs kero/diesel is that it only has about half the specific energy, ie it takes twice as much to do the same thing. On the up side you can make it yourself on a driftwood fire on the beach, and as a byproduct can produce a rather nice tipple :rolleyes:
Mmm - The still's a bubblin' and there's oak chips toasting in my kitchen as I'm typing. I wouldn't make a boat out of that stuff but it sure does make a nice bourbon.

The stove that I find most interesting is the Wallas (http://www.wallas.fi) catalytic kero/diesel thingies. No flame at all, and very efficient if their website can be believed. I've never found anyone that uses them though, and they don't have a dealer here in AU.

[ 10-20-2003, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

MarkC
10-20-2003, 03:47 AM
Yeah - Aramas, that exchange rate was in 1999 - I think the Aussie dollar was what...45cents at that stage to the US dollar! Like I said, Aussies have their Ethanol/Methanol industry from the sugar cane to thank for cheap fuel.

Here is the Wallis 95 DP in comparison with the Origo 3000 - (the two burner models). I find their out-puts similar - Wallis looks more 'modern'.

Wallas 95DP
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/p38d30fd25ff69c5b50b34dd9fae9b4a4/fac7065e.jpg
Power 900-1800W
Fuel Consumption 0,09-0,18 l/h

Origo 3000
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/pee0fe744d2904de54f536391159894e0/fac7065d.jpg
Approx. 2000W (7000 BTU/burner)
Burning Time Approx. 4.5h/burner, max. power
Fuel capacity 1.2 litres

To quote from above,

'You cant see alcohol flames'.

But you can feel the heat, I could see a blue flame - you can put-out accidents with a tea-towl/cloth.

But, to also quote from above,

'None of these liquid fuels will blow up so the potential accidents happen slowly enough that they can be dealt with with common sense. So, if treated carefully, alcohol in a remote pressure tank with a shut off valve at the tank, works great and is much safer than propane and, in my albeit limited experience, is less smelly than Kero or Diesel.'

In my experience, unpresurised tanks using the 'vapourising through pre-heating method' also work well.

[ 10-20-2003, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: MarkC ]

Leon Steyns
10-20-2003, 03:01 PM
Let me explain why I don't like propane/butane on a boat. If any leaks occur, the propane/butane fumes will collect in the bilge because they're heavier than air. In The Netherlands, liquid gas on a boat is fine, as long as the containers are stored outside the cabin and the storage bin vents overboard.

When camping with our tent, we use a propane two-burner stove outside. Since it is a level, well-vented space (despite being under the tent overhangs), we haven't had any problems.

Still, every now and then there are stories of tents/caravans burned down because of gas leaks.

Fire on a boat is the most dangerous hazard, despite the surrounding water. Hence my reluctance towards liquid gas.

Greets, Leon Steyns.

imported_Steven Bauer
10-20-2003, 03:52 PM
I'm interested in the Wallas stoves, also. We had a thread in here a couple of months ago.

This is the one that I want:

http://www.wallas.fi/images/tuotteet/5.jpg

It burns paraffin (kerosene, I think), and vents to the outside. And draws combustion air from the outside, too. I don't want any combustion fumes in the very small space that will be the interior of my boat. I've heard they are expensive but I haven't looked for a price for this model (the 800) yet.

Steven

imported_Steven Bauer
10-20-2003, 03:56 PM
Oh yeah, there is also an optional blower/cover so it can act as a heater!

http://www.rivermarine.com/heating/wallas/w800/W800.gif

Steven

stephen m
10-20-2003, 07:38 PM
Besides the Taylors 030 is there any other stove that really looks the part for an early 20th gaff cutter ? ( The Shipmate is great but burning wood in this case is not.)
Also, Is the Taylors cast iron stove the same technology as the current ones and can anyone advise on how I could see a photo of one.

Meerkat
10-20-2003, 07:56 PM
The folks over on the yahoo mailing list "MicroCruising" have been chatting up a storm about this: http://www.zodi.com/combo.html

Not remotely traditional, but a very interesting idea! Cabin warmer, lantern, cookstove, water heater and hair drier in one! :D

[ 10-20-2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

stephen m
10-20-2003, 08:22 PM
Meerkat,
I can't take myself seriously after seeing a product like that ! Please ! Don't show me anything else lik that ! We're salty ! We revel in inconvenience ! This is The Wooden Boat Forum ! WOODEN BOAT !

Steve

Ian Wright
10-21-2003, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by stephen m:
Besides the Taylors 030 is there any other stove that really looks the part for an early 20th gaff cutter ? .The 030 is the top of the range, two burner top, one burner oven. The oven will get hot enough to bake bread or melt lead.
Less expensive is a two burner top plus hot box oven (no burner but takes it's heat from the top burners, or a two burner without oven for simple two pot cooking.
Any will look the part and do the job.

IanW.

RichardBlake
10-21-2003, 04:39 AM
Hi, Stephen,
There was a thread on the YBW practical site about a year ago with lots of pros and cons, plus tips for using Taylors. Should be able to find it by copying and pasting this:
http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=pbo&Number=263029&Search=true&Forum=pbo&Words=like%20taylors%20cookers&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old= allposts&Main=263029
(must be an easier way but I'm computerally challenged...)
Richard

TimothyB
10-21-2003, 01:33 PM
Here's one way to fix that link...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?D26A32946

Try that one out. I cobbled it back together ;)

--T

stephen m
10-21-2003, 01:48 PM
Thanks Timothy and Richard,
A lot of information there !

Steve

RichardBlake
10-21-2003, 02:11 PM
Wow, well-done and thanks Timothy. I shall now gracefully retire back to the stone age where I seem to belong. Anytime you need a flint bound into a cleft stick, let me know. Should be able to manage that!
Richard

TimothyB
10-21-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by RichardBlake:
Wow, well-done and thanks Timothy. I shall now gracefully retire back to the stone age where I seem to belong. Anytime you need a flint bound into a cleft stick, let me know. Should be able to manage that!
RichardHey! I might need that to get out that riven timber for my keel...

Just go here:

http://www.makeashorterlink.com/

copy/paste and you get a new short link. Its a nice service.

--T

PeterSibley
10-21-2003, 05:20 PM
Im really rather suprised at the supposed difficulty of lighting kero stoves.I've never owned anything as delightful as a Taylors ,though I would dearly love one, I have however used Primus type stoves for the last 40 years or so. Not really difficult at all with a little bit of timing.A useful tip is to do your preheating bypassing the heating cup and its pool of metho,(thats probably the hardest thing to use aboard,pouring metho , even from a squeeze bottle can be messy).I suggest a twisted wire clip with a 4" twisted wire handle so shaped as to fit around the stem just above the metho trough.The working end has an absorbant woolly fibre mop( I don't remember what I used,sorry) which is dipped into the jar of meths, slipped into place and lit.No pouring and much quicker.

formerlyknownasprince
10-22-2003, 04:36 AM
Then, there's always the generator - in my case, sufficiently "quirky" to fit with a wooden boat - driven by a Lister STW2 - but it boils the kettle in about 90 seconds - and powers the nuclear zapper for other non-culinary delights.

I'm going to upgrade from a 500W inverter to an 1800W or larger sometime soon, so that I can just use the solar panel / battery setup for coffee and food heating.

That said, at present I'm building the box for 2 propane bottles to run a 4 burner SMEV stove / griller / oven combo and a rail mounted barbecue. Yes, I'm concerned about the possibility of a propane leak and I'm going to run a couple of 12 volt computer fans (current draw 0.13 amps each) drawing from low in the bilge.

Ian

Paul Denison
10-22-2003, 08:56 AM
I would think you would want a spark proof motor, not a computer fan.

cbob
10-22-2003, 12:03 PM
Steve,
As an old time Marine Sales Engineer for a major international oil coompany, I learned that there is a spectrum of products called "the mid barrel", all distilled products in general,from dirty diesel, up to I suppose oderless lamp
oil. Some jet fuels are in this range but there are still some, for those that operate in sub zero temperatures that have a very low flash point, and would be dangerously un-suitable, like using gasoline and could blow you and your boat up, so when buying that gallon of JP whatever number, at the airfield fuel station, please be sure you don't get the hot stuff.
From a practical stand point, I have been using paint thinner {mineral spirits} to clean paint brushes, fuel my anchor light and fuel a pressurized kerosine (Primus) type stove for over 30 years. This product is more readily available, packaged in, now plastic,one gallons, burns clean, and is almost oderless. In this modern world just go to any paint, hardware, or marine store and there it is. With the amount being used the price is not too important, but availability and convenience are, and because of it's intended use the flash point is safly high. I have suggested this over the years to various boating friends, and those that have tried it seem to continue using it, altho some buy the same product with a little red color to it, by the quart, for more thasn the price of a gallon of "mineral spirits", I think it's a wife kind of thing. Happy Cooking
cbob

stephen m
10-22-2003, 02:37 PM
Dear cbob,
It seems as though Flash Point should be at the center of any conversation about kero fuel for boat stoves.
Thank you for bringing that up ! That is yet another thing I had not thought about . What should the Flash Point be for stove fuel ? That is to say between what and what ? A assume there are specs for various keros or anything flamable. How would one find out that data ?
I'm also not going to be useing enough stove fuel to make its cost a major factor in what I choose to use.
But at the end of the day, assuming one is willing to go to the airport or do what ever they must to get the best fuel...... What is it ?
By the way,
It's possible you saved someones life today !
Thank you

Steve

Meerkat
10-23-2003, 03:06 AM
"Stove fuel" (Colman's) is white (unleaded, no performance additives, water-clear) gas. Much lower flash point than any kerosene, including standard commercial jet fuel, I believe. Also evaporates/generates vapor faster - boom! Military jet fuels might be the ones to worry about flash points with, but those aren't usually available at the local airport ;)

Aviation gas (which is gas used in piston engined aircraft, not JP4 kerosene for jets) is something to keep far away from in a boat, unless you're a hydrofoil or something! That stuff needs very very little excuse to go WOOSH!.

One consideration when using jet fuels is that they have additives for such problems as low temperature viscosity (it's COLD at 30,000'!) and bacterial (or was it algae?) growth in fuel tanks (no joke - I was surprised when I learned about it!).

Corrected per ACB's note that gas has a lower flash point, not higher.

[ 10-24-2003, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-23-2003, 04:46 PM
I believe that you meant to write " much lower flashpoint "

The higher the flashpoint, the less readily inflammable the substance is.

Frank E. Price
10-23-2003, 07:57 PM
If it ain't rusty and smoking, it ain't real, eh?

Meerkat
10-24-2003, 01:43 AM
Thanks Andrew; fixed it.

Gerald
10-24-2003, 03:05 AM
I used a brass SEVA 123 for more than 20 years while elk hunting and camping. It never failed me. It passed thru my mind that I might use it in my 23' sailboat. However, I decided it was far to dangerous and I have not yet found a supplier for white gas here in Brazil. Maybe unleaded straight from the pump would work?????
There is also another little brass camp stove that my brother had good luck with that burns almost anything. Here is a site with reviews for the Optimus No. 8R Hunter . http://www.outdoorreview.com/Stoves/Optimus+No.+8R+Hunter/PRD_77077_2959crx.aspx
I know my 123 heats like a blowtorch and according to the reviews so does the 8R Hunter. Using diesel fuel it might be a safe option for someone with smaller needs?
BTW This entire thread has me a little upset! I have between 1,500 and 2,000 man hours of work on my boat and 8 days away from launch. I can't enter the boat without thinking how nice it would be to have a Taylor's instead of the new stainless propane unit I just installed.
Gerald Niffenegger

Aramas
10-24-2003, 03:11 AM
8 days away from launch Good going! I hope you'll slip us some photos. Good luck on the big day smile.gif

imported_Steven Bauer
10-24-2003, 07:40 AM
Gerald, I've had the Svea 123 for twenty years, also. I once heard that you could burn unleaded gas in it and one time I forgot to bring white gas on an overnight hike so I stopped at a gas station and bought a little 'high test'. Big mistake! That little stove just about turned into a jet engine! It melted the bottom of the pot and the whole tank of fuel, that usually lasts an hour, was burned up in 5 minutes! And the whole stove was filty dirty afterward. I ended up buying the rebuild kit and replacing all the innards of the stove. Maybe if I got 'regular' instead of 'premium' unleaded?

8 days away? Fantastic! Keep us posted.

Steven

stephen m
10-24-2003, 08:16 AM
Thought I would do some research.
The following Q's and A's are the result of a conversation with a represenitive of Taylors in the UK yesterday:
Q. What is the best fuel for your stoves?
A. We recommend lamp oil quality kero. It's very highly refined. It's ment for reading which requires a white light. It's used in Aladdin lamps and All the sulfer is out.
Q. Brand?
A.We recommend Calo Oils. (in the UK) They can answer your questions about Flash Points and anything else about fuel. They can be reached at: 0 1744833535 ( In the US drop the 0 and add 0 11 44)
Q. What is the best way to light the stove?
A. We use a torch. (Some discussion about various torches....) His comment: Not hot enough for welding!
Q. how long dose it take?
A. 1 1/2 -2 min with a torch, 3 min with alcohol.
Q. What about gel .
A. gel is least efficient. It leaves a sticky residue in the pre heat cup and because it is metholated (sp?) spirits it burns much cooler so it takes longer.
He mentioned that the burners work best at mid or high range. They tend to carbon up if you try to simmer.
Q. Is the balance jet necessary and what dose it do?
A. It will work without the balance jet until it begins to pulse or surge which the jet prevents. It can actually go out.
Q. Will the lack of the ballance jet cause it to flair up?
A. No
He says : Normal burners have 4 legs however at a point there was a 2 leg burner. During that time the balance jet was done away with and they put gauze in the burner.
Q. When did you stop making the cast iron model?
A. The 1890's

Gerald
10-24-2003, 05:46 PM
I read several more reports about the SVEA 123 and one fella claims to use only 89 octane gas direct from the pump. As I put the final coat of varnish on the mast today I was still laughing about the thought of high octane in a 123. The little fella makes a scary sound with Coleman fuel!
This tread has me thinking about changing over to something safer. Maybe doing a little machine work and change the propane heads over to a MSR or Optimus burners as shown in this site:
http://www.backcountry-equipment.com/stoves/stove_overview.html
Would only set me back about $70 a head and would be set up to burn almost any fuel. Not a Taylor but sure as heck cheaper!
Thanks to all of you that commented here you may have saved a life. It sure got me off my hind end and yesterday I installed a bilge fan that almost sucks the sides of the boat in!
Gerald

Meerkat
10-24-2003, 06:17 PM
a bilge fan that almost sucks the sides of the boat in!
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Meerkat
10-24-2003, 06:18 PM
BTW, you do know they have propane (and Carbon MOnoxide) detectors for boats don't you? Most modern marine propane appliances have Monoxide dectors with auto-shutoff I think.

Gerald
10-24-2003, 07:12 PM
Thanks Meer. My son is coming down for a visit in Feb. and is bringing some detection units. I was going to have him bring detectors from Home Depot. Someone on the forum pointed out that the non boat units might not stand up to salt air?
On my smaller boat I always shut the gas off every time I use the stove and this boat is set up the same way. Stuff happens and there is an outside chance there could be a leak inside the stainless box and then the stainless box leaks and then the blower isn't as strong as I thought! That Taylor might look like a bargain when the boat is on fire and I am 50 miles off shore!
BTW Meer if you are having bilge problems I can let you in on how to make that blower! hee hee
Gerald

formerlyknownasprince
10-25-2003, 05:39 AM
That little stove just about turned into a jet engine We had a little housefire last December (my cousin's house was one of 43 lost that week in our area) and when the propane bottles went off they DID turn into jet engines.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid44/pd2123a54d877dced78ec38ea2496ea6f/fcdd5374.jpg

The flame from the bottles was about 3' deep and 15+' long - with an incredible roar. We just stood there with our mouths agape. It was this huge horizontal jet of blue fire. There wasn't anywhere to go (we were surrounded by fire) and hoped that they didn't blow. I wish I'd taken a photo of it.

Ian

stephen m
10-25-2003, 05:58 AM
What to say ?... I'm glad your here to tell the tale.

Meerkat
10-25-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Gerald:
Thanks Meer. My son is coming down for a visit in Feb. and is bringing some detection units. I was going to have him bring detectors from Home Depot. Someone on the forum pointed out that the non boat units might not stand up to salt air?
On my smaller boat I always shut the gas off every time I use the stove and this boat is set up the same way. Stuff happens and there is an outside chance there could be a leak inside the stainless box and then the stainless box leaks and then the blower isn't as strong as I thought! That Taylor might look like a bargain when the boat is on fire and I am 50 miles off shore!
BTW Meer if you are having bilge problems I can let you in on how to make that blower! hee hee
GeraldI think US Coast Guard regulations require a remotely operated solenoid valve to shut off gas flow at the bottle when the attached appliances are not being used. There is also a requirement for an isolated (sealed) gas locker with overboard venting, thus it would have to be mounted with the lowest point above the waterline (heavy gas: low vent point).

The only bilge problems I have are those of the Misc. Non-boat bilge on the WBF. Those are managable without a fan; thanks for the offer though ;)

Frank E. Price
10-25-2003, 03:55 PM
stephen m, I sure agree with your Taylor man about lamp oil. It's great stuff, though I've only used it in lamps. I use it in my lamps when I can afford it at the same time it's available. Burns noticably cleaner and brighter than anything else I've tried, including helicopter fuel. But around here the price after discount for a case of quart jugs is about $8.oo a quart. Kerosene is about $6.50 a gallon in five gallon jugs. I understand lamp oil is something other than just highly refined kerosene. Not sure what the deal is there.

The best kerosene I've used was Standard Oil's Pearl kerosene, but haven't seen it in years.

Has anyone tried yanking the kerosene burners from a Taylor and putting in propane burners? As someone once said (Bolger?), "Better a quick end from a propane explosion than a slow death from kerosene." (Maybe it was Kasanoff.)

Frank

stephen m
10-25-2003, 05:19 PM
Hi Frank
The Taylors fellow in the UK said that one of the reasons they recommend that company is because in addition to being the best fuel it is also very cheap (comparitively).
Of course, that isn't doing us very much good.

RE: the comment of Bolger or Kasinoff: I have other plans.

CAP'N HANK
12-29-2018, 08:15 AM
Old question! I had a Taylor's two-burner stove with oven, as well as a Taylor's cabin heater when I lived aboard. Main problem was there was a definite technique to lighting them, and guests were not allowed to do so. The burners had to be preheated - when done properly, no soot and little odor, although good ventilation is essential. I used a good squirt of alcohol in the cup to preheat, or a wick mounted in a spring clip soaked in alcohol. I also used kerosene for lighting (Aladdin & Den Haan lamps). Simple, clean, cheap, available everywhere.

johngsandusky
12-29-2018, 09:51 AM
Welcome aboard Hank.
I'm very happy with the propane stove/oven on Wandering Star. If I were building her I would have tried to arrange a propane locker that fit a bbq tank, because they are easy to exchange.

MN Dave
12-29-2018, 03:29 PM
Wow 15 years, 77 posts and not one lousy picture.
http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/images/030.jpghttp://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/taylors_030.htm

wizbang 13
12-29-2018, 04:28 PM
I’m not sure what a “Taylor’s” stove is . Is it a fancy box for Primus burners?
I’ve run Primus on my boats for 40 years , both the “silent” and the older “Roarer” burners.
About 35 years ago I switched to using paint thinner. Cleaner, easier to light, available everywhere.
I hunt for old Primus/Optimus stoves. Got a dozen or so burners and a bucket of parts.

Canoeyawl
12-29-2018, 08:35 PM
Fifteen years old this thread, cool.
I had this Taylor stove for a while. Just for grins I googled it up and they still make it today and it looks the same. http://www.taylorsheatersandcookers.co.uk/cooking
Cast Iron top, porcelain sides, with a real fiddle. (But; I have come to hate the smell of Kerosene)
I'm betting mine was made in the 1930's!
For preheating I used some magic alchohol in a toothpaste tube, like Sterno. The same for an Optimus.
(Nice to see Meercat)

http://files.web-site.build/enom47565/image/screenshot2016-09-09at10.58.57.png

wizbang 13
12-29-2018, 11:02 PM
Yes kerosene stinks up a boat, does not even matter if you burn it or not . I can tell instantly if a boat has a kerosene oil lamp even aboard as soon as I climb down the ladder.
Paint thinner . If yer feeling flush....odorless paint thinner .
Put some clean sand in the spirit cup to hold the alcohol from splashing out.

Sabre
12-30-2018, 12:04 AM
Wow, great first post resurrecting an ancient thread!

I lived with the exact Taylor's stove that Dave pictured above...the one with the glass oven door...as well as a Taylor's bulkhead kerosene heater. Lived aboard for years with that setup, as well as several kero lamps. I will never, ever allow kerosene on any boat of mine ever again. That STINK!

The preheating, the stink of alcohol, the sputtering, the surging, the soot. Yuck.

I love my Dickinson diesel stove.

chollapete
12-30-2018, 07:02 AM
Does the fact that alcohol burns without a visible flame bother anyone as unsafe? I've heard of horrific burns from alcohol fires.

lupussonic
12-30-2018, 10:01 AM
I think the danger point with Origo type stoves is the filling when underway; a high chance of spilling. I have 3 Origos, a double and a single, both in my man cave next to my boat, cooked on for 2 years almost. If the alcohol storage on a boat is sorted out, and there is a strict procedure for filling (like put all other burners out before filling *religiously*, try to remember to fill the cartridges before setting off etc) they are good and safe. I have run them on meths, Kero and lamp oil. I like lamp oil the best. Meths smell is ghastly.

In the UK our maternal government in its wisdom thinks that if they allow the sale of DNA (de-natured alcohol) to the public, we will all pickle our brains drinking it. So they put a purple dye and wood naptha in it, which makes it highly unpleasant to drink, and poisonous. No such qualms in France, where 'alcol a brulee' is widely available.

Might get a still together until I depart these shores.

Maybe long after too.

Canoeyawl
12-30-2018, 12:18 PM
Here in the US you can buy "Parrafin oil" which smells like candle wax burning. Much better, but expensive. About $50 cor 2-1/2 gallons.
Used in churches and restarants it burns very clean, hardly fouling wicks or chimneys.
I switched to that many years ago.
https://www.churchpartner.com/product/22055/lux-mundi-altar-puretm-liquid-paraffin-212-gallons/?source=google-products&CAWELAID=120337140000046557&catargetid=120337140000037381&cadevice=t&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIocf3vobI3wIVhuNkCh2hqQaUEAQYCCAB EgIG3PD_BwE

Jay Greer
12-30-2018, 01:34 PM
I was pleased to see this thread brought back as we are still stoveless on our H28 other than a portable propane camp stove that is a pain to use when under way. My wife hates the fumes caused by priming a kero stove with alcohol. The primer burns her eyes and I can't blame her for that. So, next time we are in BC, we plan to visit the Force 10 Stove Factory to investigate their Force 10 compact Euro Stove. We have been considering this stove for several years now but have not seen an example of this one face to face. Hence the idea of seeing it at the factory.
I have been told that it can be set up to operate on compressed natural gas and, this is what we plan to do as the supply tanks can be stored on the same side as is occupied by the stove. The two tanks will go in the starboard cockpit bench seat locker. By using CNG there is little chance of fire or explosion from a gas leak as CNG gas is lighter than air and wil not collect in low areas such as "Bright Star's" bilge.
Jay
http://www.marinewarehouse.net/images/forceten/force63351.jpg
force 10 address in BC
1515 Broadway Street Port Coquitlam, British Columbia Canada V3C 6M

chollapete
12-30-2018, 01:49 PM
Serious question: what about coal? Some Adkins drawings show a coal bin behind the galley stove. And, some Scottish bothy guides recommend carrying a sack of coal for cooking and heating. (A "bothy" is typically a restored cabin in open though usually private land, freely available as shelter during overnight hikes.)

Canoeyawl
12-30-2018, 03:06 PM
Clean coal?
(No such thing! Coal is a mess on a boat and it too has a distintive odor and really funky soot)

I used to fill a burlap sack with hardwood off cuts from the shop to fit the "Tiny Tot" for a weekend winter cruise and that may have been the best of all.

Jay Greer
12-30-2018, 03:46 PM
I use cut offs from compressed sawdust logs in our Tiny Tot. It burns well, povides good heat and little smoke or ash.
Jay

MN Dave
12-30-2018, 04:04 PM
This link has a long rundown on the pros and cons of the various stove fuels for use on boats.
http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/cookingfuels.php
Never having been in close quarters with an alcohol stove, this surprised me: "Some people say the sweet smell of burning alcohol makes them nauseous." Ventilation anyone?


Yes kerosene stinks up a boat, does not even matter if you burn it or not . I can tell instantly if a boat has a kerosene oil lamp even aboard as soon as I climb down the ladder.
Paint thinner . If yer feeling flush....odorless paint thinner .
Put some clean sand in the spirit cup to hold the alcohol from splashing out.
All I can add to that (not to disparage the sand) is to suggest as an alternative a piece of ceramic fiber stove gasket, rock wool insulation or fiberglass cloth in place of the sand. Odorless paint thinner does cost twice as much as mineral spirits at a local big box.

I looked up the chemistry to get a handle on the difference between Kerosene, various grades of mineral spirits, paint thinner, naphtha, Diesel and odorless mineral spirits. Functionally, chemically it is a wash. Olfactorilly it can be huge.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
12-30-2018, 04:52 PM
Where can you now get the regulating burners for a taylors stove?

lupussonic
12-30-2018, 05:16 PM
Dunno, but old kero stove stuff is readily available here..

https://classiccampstoves.com/ (https://classiccampstoves.com/)

They'll know.

MN Dave
12-30-2018, 06:13 PM
Dunno, but old kero stove stuff is readily available here..

https://classiccampstoves.com/ (https://classiccampstoves.com/)

They'll know.
What do you mean 'Dunno"? You provided 99% of the answer.
Google site:https://classiccampstoves.com/ regulating burners for a taylors stove

https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/taylors-079k-heater.34409/

lupussonic
12-30-2018, 06:42 PM
It's been a while... here's the shop link.

https://fettlebox.co.uk/index.php?

Another forum to mine as well. Good bunch.

len hornick
12-30-2018, 10:38 PM
Happy New Year to All
I guess I'll put my thoughts in ..
I have used 'Primus' style kero pressure burners full time 365 days a years for the last 34 years.At 2 meals a day that is about 25,000 meals. At say 2 1/2 US Gallons per month That is apx 1000 gallons of kero with various names Jet A for example...
If one pays attention to the burners and the fuel the smell is very low The flame is blue same as LPG. There is no soot ...
One thing about boats is that even today with all the controls forced onto the people we still have some choices ....
You all know the hazard of LPG.. I won't go into that.
I have noticed that people who use alcohol stoves are not particularly interested in cooking (No need to send a reply on that one) or people that are not on board all that much
There are advantages and disadvantages to most things , Think what will work best for you.
Cheers

Chiquita
12-31-2018, 01:38 AM
Here is my Origo: I have a 22’ gaffer and not much room in the cabin so it is on a slide in the cockpit. No smells and still OK under way and in the rain.28877

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
12-31-2018, 04:10 AM
What do you mean 'Dunno"? You provided 99% of the answer.
Google site:https://classiccampstoves.com/ regulating burners for a taylors stove

https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/taylors-079k-heater.34409/

You will notice that they don't actually sell regulating burners.... ten years ago these were easy to find, today quite a bit more difficult I don't know of anywhere making them thpough it is possible that they are still in production in India.

https://hytta.de/kocher/Zubehoer-fuer-Petroleumkocher,414.htm advertises them - but at 119 euros!

Correction - found another source
https://sparesmarine.co.uk/webshop/cookers/028-paraffin-cooker/paraffin-kerosene-burner/?brandFilter=Taylors £148!

https://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/ofen-herd-und-kocher/oelregler-und-brennerzubehoer/taylors-zubehoer/petroleum-regulierbrenner-hanse-n1

MN Dave
12-31-2018, 10:18 AM
You will notice that they don't actually sell regulating burners.... ten years ago these were easy to find, today quite a bit more difficult I don't know of anywhere making them thpough it is possible that they are still in production in India.

https://hytta.de/kocher/Zubehoer-fuer-Petroleumkocher,414.htm advertises them - but at 119 euros!

Correction - found another source
https://sparesmarine.co.uk/webshop/cookers/028-paraffin-cooker/paraffin-kerosene-burner/?brandFilter=Taylors £148!

https://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/ofen-herd-und-kocher/oelregler-und-brennerzubehoer/taylors-zubehoer/petroleum-regulierbrenner-hanse-n1
No kidding. Had you clicked the link in my post, (https://classiccampstoves.com/thread...-heater.34409/ (https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/taylors-079k-heater.34409/)) you might have seen another link in the first post therein (ebay.co.uk (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRIMUS-STOVE-REGULATING-BURNER-TAYLORS-STOVE-OPTIMUS-STOVE-KEROSENE-STOVE-/111943449575?hash=item1a10597be7:g:emEAAOSwUdlWgqi T)) for a "PRIMUS STOVE REGULATING BURNER TAYLORS STOVE OPTIMUS STOVE KEROSENE STOVE £52.99" ($67.82)

Favorite
01-01-2019, 01:05 AM
I was pleased to see this thread brought back as we are still stoveless on our H28 ... So, next time we are in BC, we plan to visit the Force 10 Stove Factory to investigate their Force 10 compact Euro Stove.
Just came across this, sure looks interesting

http://safire.fi/index.php?id=47

http://safire.fi/assets/files/1600D-2100D_manual_eng.pdf

On the plus side - it's tiny. About the size of a sheet of paper by 6" deep. It's fully automatic. It's diesel. Sounds like the fan should be very quiet. 12 v operation.

On the negative side - it has electronics. And (gasp) seems like the price is about a thousand euros. On the other hand, a dumb cast iron stove goes for $600 ... and that's not even a Sardine. The biodiesel version of those is some ungodly amount.

BillP
01-02-2019, 08:20 PM
I lived aboard 10+ yrs....2 with pressurized alcohol and 8 with kerosene. Had one fire with alcohol when priming. Could hardly see the flame but was able to douse it with a glass of water. When in the Bahamas we couldn't find denatured alcohol that would burn without clogging up the burners and ended up cooking on the beach for a month. Flame is cold so we baked in a pressure cooker most of the time. The Origo seems to be the way to go if you want alcohol but I see alcohol more for weekend warriors.

We used pressurized kero (with flame tamers for simmering) and primed with alcohol. Liked it and the smell wasn't bad. The boat is always open and ventilated well here in the south so I imagine the odor could be offensive up north in a closed boat. A Charlie Noble vent over the stove always helps. Kero burns hot and is available anywhere you cruise. Never had issues with availability or burning it. My backup kero stove (Optimus/Primus Hiker) has nozzles for burning just about any fuel you can find...and after having to cook on the beach for a month I won't cruise without a backup stove.

We burned mineral spirits or a 50/50 with kero in the lamps for a lot less odor. You have to watch the wicks carefully. They needed trimming more often than with straight kero. Never tried it in the stove but might next time around. We always primed with alcohol and I made a primer that shot just enough to fill the burner cup. Easy to make and I wonder why nobody sells them. Take a rectangle quart can and drill a hole to solder a copper tube in. Slide the tube down till 1/8" from the bottom and size the diameter so when turned upside down it holds exactly enough for the primer cup. Make the tube with a long spout for reaching to the primer cup. It sure made priming easy compared to all the other methods I've tried.

As much as I like propane, having all the gadgets to keep it safe make it less desirable. Years back I had a neighbor get blown off of his boat from a propane stove explosion. He said the first thing he remembered was seeing Tampa Bay from the air. The boat was destroyed and he was ok. That was before all the sniffing gear was mandatory.

Rapelapente
01-04-2019, 11:03 AM
The kérosène burners are easyly available at Toplicht :
https://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/ofen-herd-und-kocher/oelregler-und-brennerzubehoer/taylors-zubehoer/petroleum-regulierbrenner-hanse-n1

Along with all the spare parts:
https://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/ofen-herd-und-kocher/oelregler-und-brennerzubehoer/taylors-zubehoer

I have a 30L Taylor's aboard and I'm very happy with it.
I use odorless kero from hardware stores, intended to home heaters.
For pre-heating the gelified alcohol is safe at sea.
I don't want butane or propane aboard since I could see one boat completely destroyed, the deck separated from the hull.
The woman inside miraculously survived.
The availabity of kerosene everywhere is also one important point. When I've sailed in carribeans and US I'd have no chance to connect the local bottles to the EU standard gas stoves.
When docked or when the genset is on for fast cooking we have a portable induction which fits just top of the Taylor's.

Jim Ledger
01-09-2019, 05:50 PM
Here's a nice little Taylor two burner unit in Massachusetts. A pressure tank would have to be cobbled together.

https://www.ebay.com/i/372546778166?ul_noapp=true.

Ian McColgin
01-09-2019, 06:16 PM
On Meg I have a Dickenson gravity feed stove/oven/heater. Because that is utterly unsuitable for a quick cuppa on a summer morning, I also installed a two burner top. I'd been happy shipmates with a Force 5 diesel/kero pressure stove so thought of them, but they were out of the pressure business. So I thought of Taylor, which a friend had. In the end I went for the convenience of a Dickenson propane 2 burner. I both good units but given the availability of propane versus the cost of sufficiently clean kero decided me.

Jay Greer
01-10-2019, 01:33 PM
Serious question: what about coal? Some Adkins drawings show a coal bin behind the galley stove. And, some Scottish bothy guides recommend carrying a sack of coal for cooking and heating. (A "bothy" is typically a restored cabin in open though usually private land, freely available as shelter during overnight hikes.)
A vented solid fuel stove on a boat will reduce humidity and help keep the cabin dry. Coal is a fuel that can be a very efficient way of heating a living space, providing it is used in a stove that is designed to burn it. Coal packs a lot more BTU's per cubic inch than wood does. A coal burning stove usually has a grate that is designed to prevent the fuel from dropping through the grate and into the ash pit before it is spent.
Coal that is sold by the sack can be made cleaner by first breaking any over sized pieces into uniform size with a hammer. Then it should be washed with fresh water in a screen bottomed box and allowed to dry in the sun on a tarp. This will get rid of the extra dust and fine grains that are of no practical use. The fuel can then be bagged in small paper sacks such as those used for popcorn and stored in the coal bin till needed. This is a clean way to store coal oboard a boat.
Starting a coal fire is best done by placing a small wad of paper in the fire box and placing several pieces of "Fat Wood" on top of it along with a small amount of kindling. A small bag of coal can go in next. A propane fire wand comes in handy to start the fire! If a wick of paper is placed so that it extends through the grate into the ash pit it is easy to light it with the wand and it will then start from underneath the coal. Remember that coal burns long and hot! So it will take a bit of time to get used to working with it. I burned coal in my Tiny Tot that was in my VW Bus back when I was a ski bum. I quickly learned how little coal was needed in it when the stainless steel stack turned red hot and the damper melted out! Don't forget that a cracked open port hole or other ventilation source is a must in a confined space when burning a solid fuel stove in a boat to prevent starving the fire of oxygen. A solid fuel stove that exhausted out of the living space does not put CO into the cabin but the fire will be easier to control with a bit of air vented from outside. A water cooled stack iron is a very good idea as well.
Jay

wizbang 13
01-10-2019, 01:45 PM
One should store coal in a deck bin to let the rain wash it .
I just love the smell of a nog of coal.. smells warm.

Ian McColgin
01-10-2019, 02:08 PM
Twenty four hour a day winter heat for a live-aboard in New England is a different matter.

On Granuaile my heat for five years was a marinized brooder heater, essentially a coal fueled top loading heater designed to keep hen houses warm, run 24/7 with little work, and tick over unattended. Once running, standard was to do a daily shake, clean, and reload. This kept things running all winter. I could reload reliably after a 36 hour burn and sometimes 48 hours. Longer than that and there was not enough coal fire left to reignite a new load of coal.

I packaged the coal in paper bags that I could just drop in, eliminating dust at that end. I had a good fitting ash tray in the bottom so I did not have to do any shoveling, and I spritzed the ashes before moving them. Despite all these precautions and frequent vacuum cleaning, coal dust was ubiquitous by February. I was very happy to switch to diesel.

Meg will eventually have a small wood stove in the owner's stateroom or the afterberth or both but that's really for atmospherics, not 24 hour per day heat.

G'luck