Buying lumber (little pieces)

[essaunders]

I know that Andrew just started a similar thread, but I have a similar question, just three times smaller.
I am starting a design design (http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/home.cfm?dir_cat=5061) by Warren Jordan. I am cutting the molds this weekend and already have some mahagony for the transom, breasthook, and various knees. I have also purchased a piece of oak (red, sorry) for the stern post and innerstem (I'm planning on cutting this to shape rather than bending) and have some red birch for various other pieces including outerstem and gunwales. On the off chance I can't join my mahagony, I actually have a single piece of maple as a backup transom.
I was anticipating using cedar for planking and bottom. My local yard only seems to stock western red cedar. I was toying with the idea of buying cedar siding and planing it down for the planks -- but only if that is more cost effective!
While I have some wood already purchased, what I've got is less than 10% of my total tool, wood, and plans outlay. My question is, can cedar siding be used (for 5/32 thick planks - max, 6" wide)? Are there any issues with the other woods specified? Are any of them toxic in case someone decides to chew on them?

[Mrleft8]

Don't use Maple or Birch unless you plan on a 3 year boat. WRC is fine for planking stock, but you can do much better, and for less money. Why use Red Oak when you can use White Oak?
I don't mean to be............ Curt....... but think outside the box. You must be looking at local comercial contractor type lumberyards...... Ask around. You can find the proper stuff, at reasonable prices up there..... You're in lumber heaven!
Why wouldn't you be able to join your Mahogany transom? If you can't do it by hand, Im betting dollars to doughnuts that there's a cabinet maker within 10 miles of you that would gladly run a couple of piecesof lumber over his jointer in exchange for a few bucks, or even a ride on your boat when it's done..... (We tend to be pretty nice guys....)
And yes...... Western Red Cedar (WRC) is toxic to many people.

[ssor]

Since this vessel will never get wet the woods named will be fine. For no more than you need you can waste a lot while cutting and resawing from white cedar planks and dressing them on a thickness planer. The length is going to be hard to find unless you can get a sawmill to cut some for you.

[JBreeze]

Here is the boat:

http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/images/bt2a.jpg

I've been able to get 5/4 x 6" clear red cedar decking for a decent price....if you have a (....suggestion deleted....this is probably an unsafe idea.....resaw with a bandsaw if you have one)

Another idea would be to buy 1/8" doorskin plywood as a substitute for the 5/32" wood. Or 2-3 mm okume or meranti marine ply.

The recipient of the "boat" will be very happy!:)

[ssor]

I resaw 5/4 stock on my band saw and then plane to finish thickness

[Bruce Hooke]

Why not simply use pine for the planking? It is relatively inexpensive, readily available, and easy to work, not to mention fairly traditional. It is also totally non-toxic and thus safe around infants.

[essaunders]

yes, this "boat" will never get wet. My concern about pine is that it would have very wide grain where a cedar will have a much tighter grain. The planks are 5/32 thick and bottom is 1/4 thick. How important is tight grain in this application?

[Bob Smalser]

Those that are allergic to the acid in Western Red are often severely allergic. That usually just applies to workers inhaling its sawdust, but babies are pretty sensitive, and all boat woods have something strong, either acid or execrative, that makes them unhealthy to plants and critters touching them.

Your application doesn't require boat woods, and just to play it safe I'd use something safer to eat and also usually less expensive. Maple, Tulip, Birch, Spruce, Ash, Whitewoods....all those woods we tell folks not to use in boats are a safer bet for your project.

[abe]

I have looked all over the northeast last year for decent white cedar stock. Found some in Northern Maine but price was extreme. Picked up some fairly clear white pine at a lumber yard adjacent to the mill over in Brentwood near Rt. 101 this Spring. Found some almost qtr. sawn. Ran some through the planer down to 1/4". Not as pretty as mahogany, but then again it is local to NH.

Purchased some Atlantic white at Goosebay in Chichester last fall. I see on their website that northern white is now available. Just phoned them and it is available and green.

My own opinion is to stay away from the red cedars for a project like this for reasons stated previously.

I am set up to resaw up to 10" stock and have a decent planer if you need assistance. PM me if you wish. Between projects now.

Good Luck.


abe

[Tom Hoffman]

Why not all White Oak, In the thicknesses that you are dealing with, it will be light and it will be traditional and look great. Here is where I would get white oak if I were you living where you live and not knowing the area.

Go to http://www.woodmizer.com/us/index.aspx and get a list of mill owners close to you. Call the number, they are very nice and want their machines demonstrated by the owners in local areas. Many of the guys that own these have lumber available for sale, and will custom cut what you want inexpensively.

I have found these mill owners a great resource here in the mid west, and they are everywhere.

Tom.....

[Mrleft8]

Y'know...... I had a feeling that this was a cradle boat....But the link wouldn't open for me last night...
In this case disregard pretty much everything I said earlier, except the bit about WRC being toxic to some people...

[Tom Dimock]

I built this exact boat (Jordan Baby Tender II) about ten years ago. You could say that this was my first boat. I used clear pine for most of the boat and cherry for the transom and rails. For the davits, I laminated cherry and ash. The results were very rewarding for several reasons - the wood I used was readily available at my local lumber yard and from what I had as scraps in my shop; my Dad and I worked on this together; the end result was a beautiful hierloom which has received many compliments from family and friends; and finally, all my children (5) have at one time or another used this!

[Bruce Hooke]

yes, this "boat" will never get wet. My concern about pine is that it would have very wide grain where a cedar will have a much tighter grain. The planks are 5/32 thick and bottom is 1/4 thick. How important is tight grain in this application?

With some woods and in some applications, narrow growth rings (I presume this is what you are talking about when you say "wide grain") do matter. For this application, using white pine, I don't think it matters. Just make sure you use eastern white pine or another pine where there is not as huge a difference in hardness between the winter and summer wood or you'll go crazy trying to get it smooth.

For use around a baby I think the softness of white pine would be an advantage because it guarantees that any edge is going to be soft.

[djswan]

Birch for babies.

[Paul Girouard]

Alder could be a player as well , where is essaunder's located ? White pine also Idaho , eastern WP , etc all would work I would think.

Birch , humm,, might be somewhat hard to find .That again depends on where a guy lives.

Cherry be nice as well , Khaya , Hondo mahog etc , how deep are yer pockets ? We could easily spend all your money:D Better save a some for college as well:rolleyes:

[djswan]

Soft Paper Birch. That feels good to type it. It might be hard to find, but if I had a pick'em, that would be it.

It would match the baby toys.:)

Soft Silver Maple, as a second choice.

Rock Elm for the third?:D

[djswan]

Those that are allergic to the acid in Western Red are often severely allergic. That usually just applies to workers inhaling its sawdust, but babies are pretty sensitive, and all boat woods have something strong, either acid or execrative, that makes them unhealthy to plants and critters touching them.

Your application doesn't require boat woods, and just to play it safe I'd use something safer to eat and also usually less expensive. Maple, Tulip, Birch, Spruce, Ash, Whitewoods....all those woods we tell folks not to use in boats are a safer bet for your project.

Word:)

[Bruce Hooke]

Alder could be a player as well , where is essaunder's located ? White pine also Idaho , eastern WP , etc all would work I would think.

Birch , humm,, might be somewhat hard to find .That again depends on where a guy lives.

Essaunders appears to be in New Hampshire, where birch should be very easy to find. Ditto for Eastern White Pine. In this part of the country, even the regular lumberyards (the kind that cater to home builders) sometimes carry birch.

[Paul Girouard]

Thanks Bruce I looked at his profile and didn't see any location. Thats one thing Meerkat was dead on right about , a note on location by the avatar really helps when theses type of questions are asked.

I don't recall Birch being on the rake at Remington lumber in Oakland or at what was it the major NE / RI lumber yard Grossmens ?? Crossmens ?? But thats years ago.

My little 6 or 7 store "chain " lumber yard carries the local woods VG Fir , Hemlock in both const/ grade and in S2S . they also have some Alder S2S straight lined ripped, some Maple (eastern hard) , Walnut , R. Oak, and a little as in a few boards of Fun wood , Purple heart , Paduak , Zebra wood , not much of any of those "accent woods" really.

We can have it , just about anything delievered from Seattle thru Brady International , ORPAC , International hardwoods, or from Port townsend thru Edensaw woods LTD. ,thats who most of my stuff comes from , they come aboard (heeeeehehhhehe) on Teusdays and Thursdays.



Edited to add I see it NOW:o What a putz eh :D Me that is :eek:

[Ron Paro]

essaunders, I don't know what part of NH you are from, but Fernald Lumber in Nottingham NH is a good place to get quality local lumber. http://www.fernaldlumber.com/index.htm

Also, Woodcraft has a great selection, although typically pretty expensive compared to buying from a mill. There is a store in Newington NH.

Maine Coast Lumber is another good source for many species. http://www.mainecoastlumber.com/

[essaunders]

Sorry about not having the most specific location in my profile. I thought I had fixed that years ago.

I have only visited one local yard, Currier, in nearby Amherst. They don't mill anything themselves anymore so it's pretty much picking through the standard stock to see if any thing fits. As this is such a small project everything I've gotten so far has been out of the 50% off off-cuts bin.

I'm running behind on the molds (was supposed to have them done this weekend but only got them roughed out) so I'm probably going to try to get the basic setup done in the near future. I'll be trying to join two mahagony boards for the transom soon too. While I have a 12inch wide piece of maple as backup, I think my first choice will probably look better in the end.

The only other immediate purchase will be a table-top planer (Dewalt seemed to be a favorite brand in another thread) and perhaps, if I feel like spending a bit more, a band saw.

[alkorn]

Sometimes when I'm in my local Lowe's or Home Depot I look over their western red cedar stock. They carry 1" nominal thick siding in lengths up to 12'. It's planed 3 sides, so it's about 7/8" thick. With a thin table saw blade you could probably get three 5/32" thicknesses from these.

It's nominally "2 and better" but many of the planks are only marginally #2. Some, however, are much better. They are fairly cheap.

I've considered the possibility of buying boat planking by visiting the big boxes weekly and picking through their wrc stock, buying only the best stuff. By the time I got to planking the boat I'd probably have enough.

I think it would be a fairly cheap way to buy planking, but the labor input - both in terms of sawing and planing and in terms of picking through piles of boards - would be high. And while sawing and planing is satisfying work, picking through piles of boards looking for good ones is pretty frustrating. It would probably be better for strip planking than for carvel, since it would be easier to find good stuff in strip widths.