Longboarding for Dummies...

[Concordia...41]

OK, second stupid situation for the night:

I had given up on being able to get the topsides anything more than moderately presentable to a sight-impaired person from 20 feet, but the primer has built so well and things are fairing so beautifully that I'm heading off in the morning to a place in town that supposedly has longboards.

Plan A was just to get some paint on her, get her launched, and hopefully be able to afford a professional paint job next year.

The primer is a heavy-build Home Depot brand that I am embarrassed to name (Kilz :o), but it has done such an amazing job that it seems a shame not to level it out and do my best at a top coat. There's plenty of material in the archives for painting, but I didn't find much on longboarding.

Any advice is appreciated. :)

- Margo & Sarah

[erster]

Make yourself a longboard out of 1/4" luan. Its flexible and works great on shaped surfaces. Its easy. I don't have a shot of mine, but I use floor paper stapled to the back side with small plywood washers and use 2x4 handles with flat head wood screws countersunk from the face holding them in place. Sand a small round on the edges and wrap the paper around the edges to keep the potential high corners down. Where the handles are, just cut some half moons in the sides of the paper.

The post is posting automatically causing edits to be made.

[erster]

Dangit, for your full size hull, 5 to 6 inches x18 inches is ample.

[pipefitter]

Kilz is GREAT and forgiving stuff. It will lock down multitudes of sins including pitch and water stains and cedar oils.

Long boards is getting kind of personal because everyone has their own ways and techniques. I like a semi-flexible 10" and one around 14" and larger for fresh builds with large areas and this can also depend on things like how far your frames are in between and what not but I find on curved surfaces the 10" will suffice unless you have some severe fairing issues which should not be so apparent on a boat that has been faired before. I usually make my own out of 3/8ths plywood with a handle on each end that allows you to flex it to fit the hull if need be. The rigid long boards only allow you to sand flat areas pretty much.

Here is the homemade 14"x2-3/4" which was my primary board and it is that width to fit the width of the stikit rolls of self adhesive paper. The bottom is epoxy sealed so i can remove the paper easier.There is a sort of how to at www.yachtpaint.com

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/tigmaster/P9210027.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/tigmaster/P9210025.jpg

[Figment]

There is a limit to how much sandpaper human arms can push.

Any longer than 20" and you might as well go to a two-person 40" board.

[JimConlin]

The bigger the board, the better. It's hard to introduce a hollow with a large board.

For fairing hulls, I like the 3M 30" boards. Jamestown has 'em. http://images.shipstore.com/ss/images/mmm/mmm83497.jpg
(the middle item in the pic).

A very important accessory in its use is a strong young operator. I have a young neighbor, a wrestler, who seems to like fairing. I have concerns about his mental health.

For smaller parts, i have several 16" x 2-3/4" boards which use auto body strips.

[Figment]

oh, and double-ditto Pipefitter's note to match the width to the adhesive rolls of paper. I dunno where Oyster's finding 6x18 paper.

[erster]

oh, and double-ditto Pipefitter's note to match the width to the adhesive rolls of paper. I dunno where Oyster's finding 6x18 paper.
It comes in rolls at our Ace Hardware store, by the foot, all grits up to about 120. Its been my experience that the 2 inch wide boards with stickit air file type paper is useless in larger hulls, as it seems to dig in with the edges. the reason seems to be that those rigid arrangements do not take the changing shapes.

[pipefitter]

It comes in rolls at our Ace Hardware store, by the foot, all grits up to about 120. Its been my experience that the 2 inch wide boards with stickit air file type paper is useless in larger hulls, as it seems to dig in with the edges. the reason seems to be that those rigid arrangements do not take the changing shapes.

Thats possible but typically,I longboard diagonally one way and then the opposite to cross fair on curved surfaces. After thats all done,I then grain the surface in the direction of the wood grain with a sanding block to get rid of the cross hatch sand scratch swelling from showing thru. In a straight line,yes,the paper edge will cut a groove. The stikits help to alleviate this by not allowing the edges to curl up too. Like I said,everyone has many ways to do this. I just happened to be used to using the narrower boards but there should be an assortment. We used to take a straightedge to see how much of it generally followed the general curvature and size the boards accordingly allowing some room for the flex of the board. The one I have pictured is easily manipulated to fit a decent curve with the handles without letting it flex 'too' much as to not roll over any high spots. In some cases,manipulating the board to where it fits the area better.

[erster]

FWIW, I also use this with 3m adhesive for flat blocking in corners. Never send a boy to do a man's job.;) The graded weight of the backing is very important in the bull work, saving you huge amounts of work and hours. Then you can bring our the kid gloves for the finish work. Kiltz is tough stuff in multiple coats with any elapsed time for hard curing since appying. if applicable. I use a pair of roofing shingles snips and cut the paper with ease.

http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/8by50yaflsar.html

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/industrialsupply_1953_8744497

[pipefitter]

I figured since it was primer she was sanding, it was finish work or spot fairing where fasteners were removed replaced etc. I have used the bigger boards for heavy fairing but in primer,we always used the auto body types/sizes after the fact. I see your point Erster and agree with the bigger boards for an industrial attack but primer always means finish work to me since very little fairing/micro fairing "should be" required by that point.

[erster]

It sounds a bit more than just a coat of primer to level out. From what I read, hence bringing about my replies stemmed from what appeared to be a nice buildup on the hull. From here I cannot tell how thick it maybe. But with age comes less stamina for boards.;) The thrill is gone quickly.


The primer is a heavy-build Home Depot brand that I am embarrassed to name (Kilz :o), but it has done such an amazing job that it seems a shame not to level it out and do my best at a top coat

[Hughman]

Kilz is alcohol based shellac, right?

[Mrleft8]

Kilz is alcohol based shellac, right?
Yup..... It's what we use in the "Pub" to cover up the blood stains...;)

[pipefitter]

It sounds a bit more than just a coat of primer to level out. From what I read, hence bringing about my replies stemmed from what appeared to be a nice buildup on the hull. From here I cannot tell how thick it maybe. But with age comes less stamina for boards.;) The thrill is gone quickly.

Again,I can't disagree with your means to an end and could probably find use for all the methods mentioned at some point being this is a restoration including new parts in it as well as portions that have been faired in it's former life.

Wild Wassa would be a good one to ask being he turns out some pretty fantastic paint jobs day to day and being that his livelihood depends on it. Seems that everything I like to do involves sandpaper at some point so I suppose it jades my perspective. He might even have a photo backed step by step in his portfolio of many things paint related.

[Lew Barrett]

Hire it out. There are better things to do with your life. I'm a bit confused as to why you'd fair the boat with a long board after you put all the primer on. The time to fair her would be before finish priming unless you were counting on the primer to act as a guide coat. If there are hollows in the boat, and if you are fairing the hull and not just the paint, it's already a bit late to do a complete long board job on her. You'll blow through the primer quickly, even if you have many coats. If it's just to level the primer, you could do that well enough with a block.

[pcford]

A few points:

A longboard should be about 5 to 6 feet long and the width of airfile paper. It should be between 1/4 and about 7/16 thickem. Material to be stable solid wood. Paper #40 2-3/4" It must be "powered" by two or even three men. (If you can find a woman to do this, marry her.) You just can't do it by yourself...unless you are a far better man than I am.

The board moves sideways as well as back and forth. For example, if you are sanding fore and aft, you should be moving sideways as well.

This longboard does the heavy work. Shorter one person boards, for example the 3M boards (4.5" paper) and even the 18" plastic flexible white plastic number will work in area with more shape.

Longboarding is extremely hard work. A friend calls longboards "the misery whip." It is by far the hardest work in the boatbuilding/restoration craft that I have run across. Lew B. had it right when he advised having someone else do it.

[Wild Wassa]

Longboarding is no big deal. The hardest part about doing it is staying focussed and keeping the board at an angle that will keep the board as flat as possible while moving the board at an angle of 45 degrees to the curve then reversing the process at 90 degrees to what you have just done. It is all about cross hatching without flatspotting.

For weeks at a time this year and over much of the last seven years I've spent longboarding ... with much longboarding done above my head. Sticking with it gives good results which are worth the trouble.

When you are longboarding keep thinking to yourself, boats don't longboard themselves.

Then when you have finished the longboarding and done all the painting ... you'll be getting strong enough to do the polishing of the hull. There is no point doing super mega-prep if you aren't going to do the finishing.

Warren.

[Concordia...41]

Thanks all! The comments about working on a diagonal and keeping the paper at 45 degrees are helpful.

Just to clarify and hit a couple of the points Lew brought up, I hadn't intended to do much more than get things good enough to get in the water and save my $$$ for a professional job next spring.

The first coat of Kilz went on well and covered stains and the like as advertised but I used a chip brush around the rub rail and a foam roller and could tell I wasn't getting much product on. Soooooooo yesterday I put on a second coat with a short nap roller. It built well enough to make me think that if I could level it decently, I might be able to do better by the boat than just the slap-dash job planned.

I agree it should be hired out. The whole painting process should be, but it just isn't in the financial cards with the new engine, electronics being ordered, and then rigging and sails when I get in the water. Hence the need to get something passable for now and then have her repainted if and when I don't end up in debtor's prison. :(

Anyway, I'm off to a couple of probably redundant hours at the gym and then there's two places in town that supposedly have longboards and supplies. That will probably determine what I use. If someone can give me a grit suggestion for leveling lots of high-build primer, I'll be back before going shopping.

Thanks! You gentlemen are awesome!

[Lew Barrett]

You can paint her. You have everything and all the skills required. Maybe not to Warren's standards (OK...not to his standards!) but really, really well. But, you want some help. Well, you don't need as much help as I do because you're young. strong and hot, but for doing a bigger boat, a couple of handsome, virile men stripped to the waste and sweating profusely in the sun with a gorgeous redhead to point, talk and issue instructions makes the most sense.
When it comes to actually putting the paint on, a few cheats will have you in business. If you want it perfect, fly Warren over. If 97% will do, there is a way.
Get some paint on, get her splashed and by the time she's ready for the next round, I'll be retired and on my way to do her with you.
You buy the beer. Lindy will come down to encourage us on, but she'll only do grocery runs. As she says of herself..."I don't do boat paint." For owner/fixer operators, getting a great paint job is a process of several tries. For Wassa, it's a business and a profession.
For a cruising boat, it's one option of several.

[Ken Hutchins]

A 3m long board stiff # 3m 83497 hook and loop with Green Corp sheets, 80 & 100 grit.
Or dispense with the some of misery whip it you are good with a ROS.:):):):)