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Jim Ledger
09-17-2007, 08:10 AM
The kitchen I'm working on will need a few drawers so I think I'll use a separate thread to outline the drawer making process.

The sizes and quantities have been taken from the plan.

The material is soft maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010089.jpg

Jim Ledger
09-17-2007, 11:36 AM
Here's the sides, fronts and backs, roughly cut to length and width.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010090-1.jpg

boatbear
09-17-2007, 06:12 PM
Another great thread started. Thanks in advance.
Charlie

S/V Laura Ellen
09-17-2007, 06:44 PM
Are you going to do some hand cut dovetails for us?

Jim Ledger
09-17-2007, 06:55 PM
Are you going to do some hand cut dovetails for us?

Nope.

Bruce Taylor
09-17-2007, 07:23 PM
Nope.

Whew! :D

As it is, you've cut a good stack of work for yourself.

A pleasure to watch, as always.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon14.gif

Mrleft8
09-17-2007, 08:25 PM
Tablesawing roughcut stock..... You must have bigger cajones or smaller brains than I thought.... What happened to yer bandsaw?

Jim Ledger
09-17-2007, 09:59 PM
Tablesawing roughcut stock..... You must have bigger cajones or smaller brains than I thought.... What happened to yer bandsaw?

A bit of each, probably.

That Martin comes with a thimamjiggy that clamps to the sliding carriage that you can jam one end of a board under and holding the aft end get a 10' straight line rip. A real time saver. Then you just rip it in the usual fashion. Works fine.

The bandsaws down. I got those Carter guides everyone says are so good. They better be. What they don't tell you is that there's a certain amount of drilling and tapping involved. They don't just bolt on. I'm thinking up the strategy while I gather the nesessary forces for the attack.

Paul Girouard
09-17-2007, 10:34 PM
Straight line ripping is one really good thing sliding saws can do beyond vertical panel saws and tablesaws.

BTW I generally buy my stock straight lined , if #1: I remember to tell the gal I order through. #2: She remembers to tell Edensaw. #3" Edensaw accually does it:D

Jim when you say Soft Maple is that a reference to Western Maple , or is there a Eastern Soft Maple you have available?

And , pardon the 2nd question, why is the stock so thick? Net 3/4" draw boxes ?

TIA

Mrleft8
09-18-2007, 08:20 AM
Eastern soft Maple= Red Maple, Silver Maple, a few other insignificant others... Silver Maple quite often has extremely curly grain, very pretty, but weak. Red Maple is prone to attack by the Formosa Beetle, which often leads to beautiful greenish/brown blotches in the wood......Beautiful if you aren't looking for pure white lumber that is....

huisjen
09-18-2007, 11:50 AM
I knew a guy in college from China. Back home, he used to buy cloth with the pattern for his drawers printed on them. He'd just cut them out and sew them together.

Jim Ledger
09-18-2007, 05:42 PM
Eastern soft Maple=, which often leads to beautiful greenish/brown blotches in the wood......Beautiful if you aren't looking for pure white lumber that is....

Right, you are, Lefty, as usual.

Lucky for me I'm only making a few drawers and it doesn't matter how good they look, being hidden most of the time, anyway.

Here's the end of the day, planed and sanded to 5/8", jointed and ripped to width. Next, cut to length and dovetail.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010095.jpg

John of Phoenix
09-18-2007, 06:14 PM
That Martin comes with a thimamjiggy that clamps to the sliding carriage that you can jam one end of a board under and holding the aft end get a 10' straight line rip. A real time saver.
Sounds interesting. Could I beg a picture of that thimamjiggy?
And thanks for all the great threads.

Dave Fleming
09-18-2007, 06:19 PM
http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/uploads/pics/T74_Classic_Kopie_01.jpg

Dave Fleming
09-18-2007, 06:24 PM
http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/uploads/pics/T_54_Standard_1_01.jpg

Dave Fleming
09-18-2007, 06:29 PM
http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/uploads/pics/T45_mit_Zubeh_r_01.jpg

Mrleft8
09-18-2007, 08:40 PM
Sigh..................... To be wealthy and getting into the biz at this point...... But then again, with all that fancy stuff I bet I could be just as broke as I am right now, in 2 years, and not have gotten 27 or so years of enjoyment out of it.....:)

Bruce Taylor
09-18-2007, 09:03 PM
Sigh..................... To be wealthy and getting into the biz at this point.....

I did some repairs on a set of African chairs, a while ago. These things are carved with sharpened screwdrivers and bottle-cap scrapers:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/BDSTaylor/African20thingy1.jpg

John B
09-18-2007, 09:12 PM
http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/uploads/pics/T74_Classic_Kopie_01.jpg


where's the thingamajiggy? is that it on the wrong end of the beam?

actually you know what, I have no idea whats going on with that saw. Why is the sliding table part half way down the beam,? its the beam that moves.

Paul Girouard
09-18-2007, 09:49 PM
where's the thingamajiggy? is that it on the wrong end of the beam?

actually you know what, I have no idea whats going on with that saw. Why is the sliding table part half way down the beam,? its the beam that moves.


John B It's pretty hard to in wiritten format to discribe whats what on a sliding saw.

The one I worked , I guess I'd call it beside as you stand to the left of the blade and sort of walk behind and forward as you feed the saw. That photo has the fence or 'T" bar that hold the stock sort of in a shorted up position , ours was more to the far end by that thing that is sticking up and angled back. Generally that sled / bed is about 10 feet long.

Sheet good are butted up to that T bar and held firm , you walk forward that big bar underneath pivots and teloscopes in then back outward as the sled moves forward. The stock is held firm and really isn't moving the sled is , sort of they both move really but the stock is only moving cuz the sled is:D Simple eh:confused:


This photo of Jim's saw shows that T bar in the normal position , the one Dave posted my be more a sales ad adjusted to fit into a catalog , maybe? We never had our set up like the one Dave posted anyway:confused:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010087-2.jpg


We also RARELY used the smaller "fence" that is to the right of the blade as you stand in the operator position. Our built in tape measure was on the T bar, we had three flip up , flip down deals that could be set to any measurement on the bar so you could leave a "set cut point" so parts would not vary due to resetting the stop.

So now I'm sure I've totally screwed up your mind and only added to your confusion. :D

John B
09-18-2007, 10:03 PM
Nah:D I've got one too Paul.. mine's a casedei( sp). I just couldn't figure out why you'd have the travelling bed up the middle of the beam like that ,,but on thinking about it, I can see if you're doing a lot of short docking work and had limited space you might do that just to limit travel. I suppose .Mines locked off at the end and hasn't moved in oooo 15 years perhaps.:rolleyes:

only pic I have with it in,
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/pce701a8f5c0275430563f59805bfefdc/fdfbaf9c.jpg
Looks like I'm about to lengthen a dinghy, or something.

Sorry about the hijack Jim, I'm not very smart , but I get there in the end.

Paul Girouard
09-18-2007, 10:19 PM
Oh now you tell me :rolleyes: :D I'm not sure what thingamajiggy Jim's referring to is either:confused: Been about 7 or 8 years since I ran one I do remember we'd set the indexer on the T bar , Oh ya now I remember that was a bar deal that locked onto a adjustable bed extention table we'd use at the "back end " of the board , but I don't recall any jam thingamajiggy dealie bob, you'd just push the board into the T bar the two indexers would hold it from drifting left , away from the blade and off a guy would go, a straight line ripping.

Ya sorry fer the drift , you get my PM Jim?

Jim Ledger
09-18-2007, 11:11 PM
[quote=Bruce Taylor;1657628 These things are carved with sharpened screwdrivers and bottle-cap scrapers:

[/quote]

:D:D:D

Of course they are.

But, can they cut a piece of Melamine board nice and square without chipping out the back?

Bruce Taylor
09-19-2007, 06:00 AM
But, can they cut a piece of Melamine board nice and square without chipping out the back?

No, that job calls for a steak knife and a bent framing nail. :D

As John said, sorry for the hijack. Back to the drawers.

Jim Ledger
09-19-2007, 08:30 AM
Go ahead and laugh, Dave. Work on those machines one day and you'll be spoiled forever. Kiss your "Old Ahrn" goodbye, "See you around, honey, it's been nice knowing ya. I got me a new gal.":D

John, here's the edging whatsit in use. It clamps to the slot with that knob and holds the front of the board while you hold the back and move the carriage.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010096.jpg

Ron Williamson
09-19-2007, 11:28 AM
That's pretty sporty.
What's the length of the beam?
My old time SCM l'Invincibile is only about 50".
R

John B
09-19-2007, 04:18 PM
Jim , whats the benefit of that gimmick relative to just holding the board against the fence? Is it because there's some grab in the angled face?.
On the first description I'd imagined that you'd push the board against the sliding table fence and use the thingamajig on the other end to 'hold' the job, in effect clamping the board to the beam for a straight edge pass.
We have various gimmicks to do a similar job but nothing quite as simple as that unit, I like it.

Dave Fleming
09-19-2007, 04:52 PM
Jim I, as I have said before, lust after MARTIN machinery.
Especially the old T-17 version of the Panel Saw.

For case work IMOOP, there is nothing better than those saws for a cabinet shop, no matter who makes them.

Panhans
Martin
SCMI
Casadai (sp)
Dunno if Bauerle is still in business
Knaap

etc..
;)

Jim Ledger
09-19-2007, 05:16 PM
Ron, the saw will rip a ten foot sheet of ply lengthwise.

John, is that really your shop? The woodwork corner of the Man-Cave perhaps? It has a certain commercial look about it.

To answer your question about the edging fixture, the board just jams under the angled steel and stays put. Simple, but it works well. It wouldn't be a hard thing to make.

Getting back to the drawers. Today I was all over the place and didn't seem to get much done. however, most of the pieces are cut to length and ready to start dovetailing in the morning. There will be 35 drawers in about 15 or 20 different sizes. In addition I'm making four dovetail boxes for the boat out of Spanish Cedar. These will sit in lockers and hold various small items. As they will be the same height as the small drawers they will use the same machine settings.

This is a good time to count your pieces, check the number of sides against the front and backs and generally reassure yourself that everythings right. It's very easy to make a mistake and I've made several. Now is the time to catch them before the next step.

Note that the near piles are fronts and backs and the far piles are sides.Keep them separate so the correct machining gets applied to each piece.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010097-1.jpg

John of Phoenix
09-19-2007, 05:29 PM
What a machine!!
There's LOTSA thingamajiggies on that beast.
http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/uploads/pics/T7435-T7450_267_c_800x600_01.jpg

And look at the control panel!
Does it warm up your lunch too?

http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/uploads/pics/T74_Classic_Bedienfeld_177_.png

Very impressive. [/envy]

Dave Fleming
09-19-2007, 06:38 PM
I know the photo is kinda crappy but, you can see why I like it....I think.:Dhttp://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL780/3097474/6292566/279104720.jpg

Jim Ledger
09-21-2007, 07:08 AM
Just pulling your leg, Dave.That's a beautiful saw, spoil you for life, I bet, a machine like that. Does that saw have a sliding table? Maybe not bolted on for shipping.

Now, back to those drawers.

Here's the S. Cedar boxes for the boat lockers. I made them first to dial in the jig.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010101-1.jpg

Jim Ledger
09-21-2007, 08:51 AM
I'm using a Leigh D4 dovetail jig for to make these joints. These are the router set-ups for the pins and tails. I'll use the router on the right first.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010099.jpg


This is one end of a drawer side clamped in the jig after the cuts have been made. The guide fingers are adjustable to enable varied width dovetails to be cut.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010102-1.jpg

capt jake
09-21-2007, 08:57 AM
Excellent stuff! Keep 'em coming! :)

Jim Ledger
09-21-2007, 12:38 PM
Pins being formed by the router with the straight bit.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010103.jpg

Mrleft8
09-21-2007, 12:40 PM
The drawer sides are REALLY 3/4" thick?

MiddleAgesMan
09-21-2007, 12:57 PM
5/8 actually, a size that is fairly common these days.

Dave Fleming
09-21-2007, 01:26 PM
Just pulling your leg, Dave.That's a beautiful saw, spoil you for life, I bet, a machine like that. Does that saw have a sliding table? Maybe not bolted on for shipping.


Yes it has a sliding table that runs on that oblong casting to the left.

3 arbor speeds, scoring saw, all the bells and whistles but, not 'electronically', all manual, which fits my temperment just fine.;)

Speekin' of dovetails, I got hooked on the PC Omnijig for ease of use.
Admittidly can't vary the tails and pins but, hell for stout. Never cared for the Keller Jig myself.

Jim Ledger
09-21-2007, 05:40 PM
5/8" thick, Lefty.

Dave, it's not only the electronics, it's the pneumatics that take getting used to. Push a button and the fence locks...'Tock"... push another and the spindle locks..."Tock"... but only when the blade compartment door's open, otherwise, no go. You'd be shaking your head'n muttering "newfangled Eurogizmos, more stuff to break...I remember the day..."

As for the drawers, repeat the cuts as required. Don't make a mistake.




http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010104-1.jpg

Jim Ledger
09-22-2007, 12:10 PM
Dovetailing completed, the next step is routing the groove for the bottom.

The bottoms are 1/2" maple ply, rabbeted to fit into an 8mm groove. The undermount slides require a 1/2" space under the bottom, so the top of the groove is 1" up from the bottom edge.

This is the table router set-up. The pencilled lines on the table top indicate where the piece has to stop to prevent the groove from going right through and showing on the outside.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010107-2.jpg

Bruce Taylor
09-22-2007, 01:15 PM
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010104-1.jpg

Sawdust! Your magical self-cleaning shop must be on the fritz, Jim. :D

Jim Ledger
09-24-2007, 09:22 AM
Here's the four boxes for the boat glued up. The bottoms are 3/8" marine ply. Belt sanding the outside will finish them up and they'll be left unfinished. One will sit next to the engin and hold the oil and grease cans, WD-40, etc. The other three will sit in lockers to organise the jumble that accumulates there.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010129-3.jpg

Jim Ledger
09-24-2007, 02:51 PM
This shot shows the rabbeted bottom and its fit in the groove.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010130-1.jpg

PeterSibley
09-25-2007, 04:09 AM
I know the photo is kinda crappy but, you can see why I like it....I think.:Dhttp://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL780/3097474/6292566/279104720.jpg

Very nice Dave , but I see your Martin and raise you a Wadkin :D

P.L.Lenihan
09-25-2007, 05:11 AM
Fantastic post,as usual,Mr.Ledger! I am particularily curious about that last photo of yours....is there a specific reason for the small shoulder rabbeted into the drawer bottom as apposed to simply routing out a groove the width of the bottom panel thickness? I must admit that your approach looks fancy as all get out,despite requiring one more step in the process.
Thank you for your wonderful teaching-through-pictures postings. I truely appreciate and learn something from each one of them.

Peter

Jim Ledger
09-25-2007, 07:04 AM
is there a specific reason for the small shoulder rabbeted into the drawer bottom as apposed to simply routing out a groove the width of the bottom panel thickness?


Peter

There's a couple of good reasons for that.

First, there is considerable variation in plywood thickness, even within the same sheet. The tongue on the bottom is formed on a shaper with the good face down, so the tongue is an even thickness and can be matched to the groove. A tablesaw or table router could also be used. Also, there a no router bits that match plywood thickness so the groove would have to be made in two passes instead of one.

Second, all wood joints have weak spots, often caused by short grain or the removal of wood. The wood underneath the groove supports the entire weight of the drawers contents, so leaving as much as you can is a good practice.

Here's the Cedar boxes with a cleaned up with a coat of Deks Olje.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010132-2.jpg

Jim Ledger
09-25-2007, 08:36 AM
Here's all the parts, ready to assemble.

Let the fun begin.:D


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010134-3.jpg

Mrleft8
09-25-2007, 08:43 AM
Looks like about as much fun as vacuuming a cat... ;)

Jim Ledger
09-25-2007, 02:16 PM
Looks like about as much fun as vacuuming a cat... ;)

Vacuum BAGGING a cat, you mean?. No, it's not that much fun but the clean-up is much easier.:D

Here's a glue-up. The notched clamp blocks make the job go a lot smoother.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010135-3.jpg

Stiletto
09-26-2007, 01:00 AM
A nice set of drawers!

3/8" seems like a fairly heavy duty bottom, how big is the largest drawer?

Jim Ledger
09-26-2007, 02:20 PM
The bottoms are 1/2" and the biggest drawer is about 21" deep x 33" wide. It's a fairly heavy bottom but I don't see any downside to that.

Here's most of them glued up.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010136-2.jpg

Jim Ledger
09-26-2007, 10:03 PM
Sanding the pins and tails flush with the sides. This machine makes short work of the job. The taller drawers will be done with a hand belt sander. Clamping a piece of ply overhanging the bench allows the drawer to be placed at bench height for easy sanding.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010144-2.jpg

P.L.Lenihan
09-26-2007, 11:06 PM
Apart from the incredible craftmanship regularly shared with us here, I am truly impressed with the shear size,number and varity of tools(machines) you have in your work shop Mr.Ledger! My entire tool set fits nicely,with space to spare, in the trunk of my car.....

If ever you simply cannot possibly come up with a name for inclussion in your will regarding who to give all those tools to, I know a guy in Montreal who would humbly and respectfully relieve you of the burden..............:-)

Peter
(a guy in Montreal)

Phil Heffernan
09-26-2007, 11:21 PM
Fascinatin' I tells ya! Seems like magic to a rookie like me..

Thanks for the thread Jim "The Legend" Ledger...;o)

PH

Jim Ledger
09-28-2007, 10:26 AM
After sanding the outsides (the insides and bottom were sanded prior to assembly) and easing the corners with sandpaper the drawers look more like a finished product, needing only the finish to complete the job.

Here is the first step of finishing, a spray coat of catalyzed vinyl sealer. Sprayed on thinly, this easy-sanding coating dries quickly and is ready for finish sanding in about half an hour.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010156-1.jpg

My spray booth is half of my garage, equiped with a big exhaust fan and compressor.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010155-1.jpg

Jim Ledger
09-30-2007, 10:11 AM
They're done. What a relief. It's a fairly tedious and repetive job, making drawers, but one that must be done with a certain amount of attention to detail and a lot of attention to avoiding mistakes. A simple error anywhere along the line provides you with a free drawer to use anywhere you like. Of course, you have to make another to replace it.

They're certainly not masterpieces, but rather an example of a well made, repeatable and standardized unit built to a particular level of fit and finish.

In the "Casework" thread I'll be mounting them in their respective cabinets.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010161.jpg

S/V Laura Ellen
09-30-2007, 10:21 AM
I saw someone launch their newly completed drawer across the room while performing that same procedure. Must have caught and edge and torn the paper. What a racket!:eek:

The drawers look great, I love the looks of the dovetail joints.

Thanks for posting.


Sanding the pins and tails flush with the sides. This machine makes short work of the job. The taller drawers will be done with a hand belt sander. Clamping a piece of ply overhanging the bench allows the drawer to be placed at bench height for easy sanding.


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010144-2.jpg

Paul Girouard
09-30-2007, 10:43 AM
Jim who's your camera person? It appears the sander is running ? Or do you setup the camera on timer ,then run into the shot?

Nice draws BTW.

Jim Ledger
02-16-2008, 12:19 PM
Jim who's your camera person? It appears the sander is running ? Or do you setup the camera on timer ,then run into the shot?

Nice draws BTW.

IIRC, it was OOMA that particular day.;)


This is an easy way to modify a drawer to hold hanging file folders. The drawer is made in the usual way, but sized to fit the particular size folder you want to use.

Here, a stack of front and backs with a particular rout in their top edges. The MDF piece on top of the stack is the router jig. The router set-up is shown, a 1/8' straight bit working in a template guide.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Filedrawers1.jpg

When the drawer is assembled, 1/8' x 1" aluminum bar is cut to slot into the grooves on which to hang the files.

Don't forget to allow space on top for the tabs!

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Filedrawers2.jpg

Eric D
09-18-2008, 04:37 PM
Jim,

they make bits now for the router that are the EXACT size of ply in 1/4, 1/2, 3/4" . The actual size of the ply as you know are slightly smaller and I believe it is Freud who makes a set of them or someone does out there, I see them in wood working mags all the time. FYI

Over all this thread is awesome. Thanks for the time Mr. Ledger.