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TimH
09-16-2007, 10:08 AM
Federal prosecutors said they'll likely decide this week whether to file charges against tribal members Wayne Johnson, Theron Parker, Andy Noel, Billy Secor and Frank Gonzales Jr. for getting into a motorboat Sept. 8, chasing down a gray whale and harpooning and shooting it. After struggling some 10 hours, the whale died and sank to the bottom of the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003877287_whalehunt10m.html

Lew Barrett
09-16-2007, 11:52 AM
It's been big news here, and by all accounts the tribe is not pleased with the actions of the poachers. May not be the first whale they've taken illegally, either.
There had been some discussion about the tribe handling the case locally, if I recall.

Phillip Allen
09-16-2007, 12:36 PM
I wonder if the folks in Buffalo Jump Wyoming would like to return to their traditional hunting methods?

JimD
09-16-2007, 01:14 PM
I'm not very PC about the 'turn back the clock' approach to native culture. If the tribe reached a compromise that they be allowed a symbolic traditional hunt that's one thing. Going out in a powerboat to kill a whale anytime you feel like because your grandaddy did is another. There's a lot of things a lot of people everywhere used to be able to do but no longer can. Its not about white oppressing native. It's about six billion people finding a way to share the planet. And I don't think this case should be handled in house, as it were, by native law as it was not a native against native infraction that occurred on a Reserve.

Starving Grey whales, anyone?


Scientists Fear for Pacific Grey Whales
Starving grey whales may be early sign of changes in the Pacific warns Earthwatch scientist

http://www.earthwatch.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=dsJSK6PFJnH&b=692025&ct=3835099

Paul Girouard
09-16-2007, 01:58 PM
I'm not very PC about the 'turn back the clock' approach to native culture. If the tribe reached a compromise that they be allowed a symbolic traditional hunt that's one thing. Going out in a powerboat to kill a whale anytime you feel like because your grandaddy did is another. There's a lot of things a lot of people everywhere used to be able to do but no longer can. Its not about white oppressing native. It's about six billion people finding a way to share the planet. And I don't think this case should be handled in house, as it were, by native law as it was not a native against native infraction that occurred on a Reserve.





Pretty well said JimD but wheres that "JimD " humor? Generally we get a lil bit. You sure thats your post ? Does your wife know your log in # :D

djswan
09-16-2007, 02:18 PM
I thought this thread was about Farly Mowat's book I read in my youth.

Another sad tale. after sad tale.:(

Where's some good environmental news?

JimD
09-16-2007, 02:51 PM
Paul, I guess I just couldn't find anything funny about it :(

BrianW
09-16-2007, 03:50 PM
They're indigenous Jim. Anything they do is okay.

JimD
09-16-2007, 04:04 PM
They're indigenous Jim. Anything they do is okay.

:D:( Funny and sad at the same time, eh?

BrianW
09-16-2007, 04:27 PM
Mostly sad. After the hunt, they probably all went to the free Indian hospital for blister treatment.

paladin
09-16-2007, 04:35 PM
Try to believe, Brian...there's no "free" Indian Hospital...and if it is like anything else the giv'ment is suppose to provide, the money got diverted somewhere else....

JimD
09-16-2007, 04:38 PM
Can you imagine what would happen to one of us if we just one day decided to head out in the boat and kill a 40 foot whale and then told police
"If anything, I wish I'd done it years earlier," ?

Bruce Taylor
09-16-2007, 06:09 PM
They're indigenous Jim. Anything they do is okay.

Their Tribal Council doesn't think so.


Early Sunday afternoon, the Tribal Council issued a statement denouncing the whalers' actions and promising prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.

The tribe said it would cooperate with any federal investigation of the hunt and that the whalers will stand trial in tribal court.

BrianW
09-16-2007, 08:25 PM
Try to believe, Brian...there's no "free" Indian Hospital...

That's not what I hear from my friends who are native Alaskan.

Yeadon
09-16-2007, 09:53 PM
I thought the photos of the whale were pretty sad. The whale lived for a number of hours, then died and later sank. They just left a line hooked to it.

Scientists should have towed that whale to shore and studied it. I doubt that very often they get a chance to perform a necropsy on a generally healthy adult whale. We probably could have learned something from it.

I think the Makahs should be allowed to hunt whales, just not out of season. They were allowed to hunt a whale a handful of years ago. I thought that was fine, because it was an in-season harvest in which the effect on the whale population was known.

Since this was an illegal out-of-season catch, they should have tied the hunters to the sinking whale.

Paul Girouard
09-16-2007, 10:05 PM
I think the Makahs should be allowed to hunt whales, just not out of season. They were allowed to hunt a whale a handful of years ago. I thought that was fine, because it was an in-season harvest in which the effect on the whale population was known.

Since this was an illegal out-of-season catch, they should have tied the hunters to the sinking whale.



I thought that hunted sucked just as bad as this "illegal " one. They , if they are "searching for their past" , should be hunting as thier fore fathers did , no motors , no outboard runabouts to herd the whale, no guns , etc . It's crock of $hit to use modern weapons , tools, clothing, etc , to get "in touch " with your past:rolleyes:

As far as injun justice for this lot what they gonna do fine them two beaver pelts and a string of beads ? What a big pile of B/S the whole friggin deal is :mad:

Lew Barrett
09-16-2007, 11:45 PM
Wait until Bob S. sees this!

Anyway.... Whatever happens and wherever they are tried, I'm inclined to think these poachers won't get off easy. The Makah didn't need this. I'm opposed to the hunt for most of the reasons others here are, but it's not fair or decent to characterise NA problems with platitudes out of hand. Smacks of intolerance. Attack the issue, not the people.

Phillip Allen
09-17-2007, 06:41 AM
An attempt to roll back the clock is useless...almost. Let em pursue the whales in their canoes and tag em with radio tracking devices for study. I was a buckskinner for over 20 years and camped and lived "similarly" to the way fur trappers and traders of the early 1800's did in the North American west. I did not trap beaver while doing it. We had rifle matches, sometimes using paper targets and sometimes using novelty targets such as splitting a ball on an axe blade and hitting two targets with one shot and the like. We started our camp fires with flint and steel and some even twirled a stick or two. We camped in primitive tents/tepees or no tents at all. We sat around our camp fires and spoke of what we knew or thought we knew and we traded books back and forth and learned a lot. No doubt, some trapped a beaver or two but the vast majority did not. In fact, all are glad to come across a beaver dam and see the recovery, to hear the wild return and none that I know of want to set about destroying it...again!

I would say that with their increase in general historical knowledge, that most people learn to preserve that which was destroyed and we tend to know that to return to wholesale trapping (in the case of the whales…killing and using whale oil and blubber in daily life) is to lose it again.

I often have wondered about and wandered into the past. I am sorry that we have done so much damage. I am also aware that the interest of hunters and fishermen and outdoorsmen the world over have brought back many critters from the brink…I have personally seen an explosion of our local deer population…to the point that they occasionally become a nuisance. Yesterday I carefully removed a garter snake which was trying to shed its skin away from where I was working in the garden…in town. I think of the snake as a responsibility and do what I can to protect it. I’ve taken the neighbor girls to the river and killed one water moccasin but thereafter I have simply ran them off from where we were fishing. The killing was to illustrate to the newbies that being able to kill does not mean one MUST kill. Since then, they seem comfortable with shooing them off and not fretting about its coming just to attack them…it is a teaching method.

I have known the type of men that believe that their daddies and granddaddies killed deer/bear/whales and that gives them a mandate to do the same but they are in the minority and avoided by wiser men and women. Occasionally, I have attempted to educate these oafs and have been threatened but also I believe I have had some successes…hard to be sure.

It helps to be patient.

Rum_Pirate
09-17-2007, 07:46 AM
Scientists should have towed that whale to shore and studied it. I doubt that very often they get a chance to perform a necropsy on a generally healthy adult whale. We probably could have learned something from it. I am sure that the Japanese have compiled almost uncountable reports from performing necropsy's on all the whales they slaughter (sorry I meant sample) ALL in the name of scientific research!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The scientists you refer to could go out with them!!! :rolleyes:

Phillip Allen
09-17-2007, 07:52 AM
I forgot about THAT euphemism for market-hunting...