Whaleboat rudders...

[Dan Wilder]

Does anyone know how the "kick-up" feature of whaleboat rudders worked? Check out the second and third photos on this page for an idea of what I'm talking about:

http://www.eganmaritime.org/Whaleboat.html

I assume that a line of some sort is run through the lower gudgeon instead of a pintle... I'm wondering if this would be more or less of a hassle than a standard kick-up rudder on my transom-sterned dory skiff. (Not that a kick-up rudder is a terrible hassle, but I can barely manage the few tasks I have on board now, and I'd like to keep any additional fiddling to a minimum...) Thanks!

Dan

[Thorne]

Don't know -- some of the double-ended boats have a 'bar-pintle' or whatever it is called that allows the rudder to slide up and down on the rear stem. These are expensive and still require you to fiddle with the rudder.

I use a kickup rudder on my dory skiff and it couldn't be simpler. As long as the rudder kicks up completely (above the level of the skeg), you just let it do its thing when sailing in shallow water or beaching. The line to hold it up can be easily released, but in a pinch you can sail with it kicked up and it will still steer.

http://www.luckhardt.com/kickup-full1.jpg

[nedL]

As I remember, this kind of rudder hangs on pretty traditional pintles & gudgeons, and is actually unshipped in the photos and is hanging on two lanyards. (This is based on my memory of rowing the whaleboats @ Mystic CT, and the photos.)

[Dan Wilder]

"this kind of rudder hangs on pretty traditional pintles & gudgeons, and is actually unshipped in the photos and is hanging on two lanyards."

I just ran across an old illustration of a whaleboat which clearly shows conventional pintles and gudgeons, and a couple lanyards attached to the rudder, presumably for hanging it from the gunwale when not in use. Looks like I'm back to the conventional kick-up rudder.

On that subject, that's a nice looking rudder, Thorne! What keeps it in the "down" position when you're sailing? (And what kind of boat is that? Looks very similar to my Marblehead dory skiff...)

[Thorne]

Chamberlain dory skiff, fir over oak, restored and rigged for sailing.

Lead holds it down...more or less. It does tend to swing back when we are really howling along, but that doesn't hurt anything, still steers the same.

Oh yeah, I set a brass strip along the leading edge and bottom of the rudder and it has worked out really well -- saved that edge from various hard/abrasive surfaces. Brass is set in epoxy with small brass nails also helping hold it in place.

http://www.luckhardt.com/finishedblade1.jpg

Here's more than you ever wanted to know about my boat -
http://www.luckhardt.com/dory1.html
http://www.luckhardt.com/dory2.html

[Dan Wilder]

And very similar to mine. Your website is very comprehensive, too...

[Thorne]

"comprehensive" is one word for it, all right....

;0 )

I'm seriously considering building a barndoor rudder for my dory skiff, as I don't think the kickup rudder is doing much as a "high-aspect foil" -- steering/handling seems the same whether it is tied up or fully down, even in high winds and swell.

Maybe something like this rudder on the Melonseed (similar rake on transom) or from "Building Catherine"?

http://www.mindspring.com/%7Ecouncill/sbjournal/melonseed/ms3.jpg

[Dave Fleming]

I was reluctant to post to this thread until I was able to dig through my library for some definitive info re: Whaleboats and the details of the different types of rudders used over the years.

May I refer you to a publication by Mystic Seaport:

The Whaleboat, A study of design, construction and use from 1850 to 1970

ISBN: 0-913372-39-0 Cloth Cover
ISBN: 0-913372-30-4 Paperbound

And, Twice Round the Loggerhead, the documentation of a recent building of a Whaleboat in the Azores.

The first listed has a page devoted to drawings of various types of Whaleboat Rudders.

[Dan Wilder]

Thanks Dave, I'll check that out.

Thorne, my boat was drawn with a rudder like the one pictured in that Melonseed picture you posted. I built it that way, but it proved troublesome... As you probably know from your own boat, a rudder hung on a sharply raked transom hinges up diagonally as you push the tiller one way or the other. I found that when I was heeled over and I put the helm a lee, the rudder came right out of the water! I extended the rudder to combat this problem, but I think this threw off my center of lateral resistance. (Now it's impossible to make her come about, but that's the subject of another lengthy thread...) Anyway, I would recommend you make a quick prototype of the barndoor rudder in scrap plywood before you totally commit to the design. It may require some fiddling. (I'm currently in the process of fiddling with deep, narrow rudders.)