Seepage up the keelbolts

[Rich VanValkenburg]

Sonja is taking a little more water than I expected after a month and it looks like most is coming right up the keelbolt holes in the floors. Those were drilled to fit tight, and the floors were bedded to the keel as I put them in. Why would they drip out through the top nuts?

Rich

[RGM]

What exactly did you use for keel bolts?

[Mrleft8]

Try tightening the bolts a bit. It could be that things didn't take up quite as much as expected, or that something got whacked and a bedded joint came loose. If it's more than a turn and a half or so on each bolt, I'd take a closer look at the soft white underbelly.....

[Canoeyawl]

A stand of cotton around the bolt under the washer should cure that.

[Lew Barrett]

A stand of cotton around the bolt under the washer should cure that.


I second that.

[George Ray]

I third that.

[oakman]

I would fourth if we were talking about an out of water installation but now, in the water, that will only stop the water from seeping out on top of the floor. I think the issue is 'where is the water getting in?'

Presumably the bolts were countersunk and bunged, did you put cotton and red led unter the heads at the keel?

[RGM]

As oakman states, "where is the water getting in?" is one issue. The other is what is the defect which is allowing the water to travel up the bolts and appear on top of the floor timbers and apparently not at the floor timber/keel interface? Cotton wicking under the nuts is an excellent "Kodiak Quicky". Great way to temporarily treat (maybe)the symptom but not treat the problem. My first immediate thought and question was what are the keelbolts? Secondly, thread length, configuration, carriage bolt or rod threaded on both ends, hopefully not all-thread or carriage bolts with rolled thread. What was the drilling/countersinking process? Too many trips up and down the hole with the drill bit in an effort to clear chips? What was the installation process?

[donald branscom]

I seriously doubt that water is seeping up the bolts.

The little water you see is probably condensation as the bolt is cold and inside the boat is warm.
This is quite COMMON.

When you buy a 1/2 bolt for instance and you drill the hole with a 1/2 inch drill bit the bolt is NOT 1/2 unless it has a triangle on the head of the bolt. The bolt is about .005 less. So if you devide that by 2 you get .0025 which is about the thickness of a human hair.

[Chan]

Seems to me if the bolts are below the waterline and the floors are below the waterline and the tops of the bolts are below the waterline and there is no caulking or not caulked properly between the top of the floors and the washers no matter how close the tolerance of bolt and hole, It's gonna weep out the top of the bolt hole.

[George Ray]

The warm beeswax is a very nice touch.

[Rich VanValkenburg]

Just came back from the boat, and it looks like it's coming in a little faster than last week. The bolts are T316 stainless, 5/8" rod, threaded at each end. The ballast end has a large washer and stainless nut but it's all buried inside the lead. When built, the lead ballast had square holes cast in that allowed access to the nuts. These holes were then filled with lead minus the antimony, which makes it easy to melt out again without disturbing the hole. The bolt holes were tight and I had to drive the bolts with a slide hammer.
Those were filled again with lead and any areas that were not quite completely full of lead were epoxied over to seal the entire hole. In all the years I've had the boat I've NEVER had seepage up and out the top of the bolts. The weird thing is, mold is growing around the nut at the top, and the water coming in has that sweet, white Oak smell.

I had bedding at the bottom of the floors and at the sternpost joints. Believe me, this was one place I didn't want trouble again.

What gets me is the lack of rain all summer around here until I launched. Now it rains buckets down there every week and it's making it hard to tell just how much is seeping in, and just how much is rain getting it from top.
I was at the point where I'd get a 3/4 full bilge after 5 days without an automatic pump. I reconnected the pump today.:(

After sponge drying the whole bilge today, I suspect the joint at the ballast/keelson.

rant mode on And the only dam place in Southern Michigan to get rigging or any other sailboat hardware put together let me down again today. My old shrouds are still on their workbench untouched after four weeks. Anybody else out there from around here knows which Grosse Pointe "Everything for sailboats" company I'm talking about. That about ends any chance of sailing at all this year. :mad: rant mode off

Rich

[Concordia...41]

Sorry. :(

[Lew Barrett]

This problem has a logical solution and you'll get there.
I've always reckoned the boating hobby was about two things. Boating, and the boat. They're connected but they're not exactly the same.
I like both aspects of the hobby; caring for and improving the boat and using it as intended. Rich, this year was the one where the boat took precedence over the boating. Next year when you're out there enjoying the ride, you may just be thinking about how you'll improve her for '09's season. And, that's the only way to think about it. Enjoy the ride. Damn riggers.......

[donald branscom]

You said it has been raining a lot.

Did the problem start after it was raining?

[Rich VanValkenburg]

I know, Lew. There's always a reason for everything. The rigging is something I worked hard to get to this year and they took control out of my hands. They've got until Thursday and then I'm taking my ball and going home. My wife and I both gave up on it today. There's no way it's worth the money to get rigged just to get unrigged a week or two later. The calendar just ran out. I wish I could have done it myself, then I'd have it when I needed it.

Donald, no, the weather is the weather, and it just decided to rain when I didn't want it to. The cockpit is semi-protected but I get some rain inside when the cover blows off, and we've had some heavy storms the past few weeks. I was trying to measure the rate of seepage but I'm having trouble with interference from the rain. My best rain cover uses the mast and backstay for support.

I guess I just missed something down there. Won't know until it's hauled.

Rich

[Jay Greer]

I will mention an old boat builder's trick for leaking or weeping keel and floor bolts. Once the boat is out on the hard, if the bolts are nutted inside, remove the nut and pour hot melted tallow into the area of the bolt, if there is any gap under the washer. The tallow will follow down the bolt, solidify and seal the leaks.
Jay

[Uncle Braddah]

I would check the outside of thhe keel for cracks. My skeg was cracked and acting like a wick, causing a weep up through the stern planks at the waterline. Had to pull her out on to the hard.

[Rich VanValkenburg]

I tasted the water and it isn't bitter. That one had me worried, so I'll take my voltmeter down there and see if there's current between bolts or between anything. Yesterday the seepage out the bolts stopped, but I'm still taking an inch an hour. I think it might be the bottom plank on the keel. The seams might be too tight and starting to force the the sternpost joint apart, or it could still be the ballast/keel joint. It's possible the bolts weren't tight enough. I never over tighten those, thinking that when things start to swell they'll be stressed. What tight is right?

On a positive note, the new rigging is done. I might just try to stand the rig up early next week and see how it all fits.

Rich

[John B]

In a similar vein to the caulking idea, another old trick common here is to grease gun a white lead slurry down the bolt. white lead and turps for example .If you can't get white lead, you can make the same from a butyl mastic and turps( sika 710 will do). It doesn't have the toxins the wl has though . You load the mix into a gun that has a male fitting like you find on the old style guns, drill a short starter hole that will accept it and very carefully pump it in. If the boat is out and you start very thin , you can track it exiting too.You might find it tracking up a joint and coming out somewhere unexpected.

[Rich VanValkenburg]

The keelbolts stopped leaking. We cleaned the bilge out and hand dried what we could and found a seam that just opened up. I was concerned about this because with all of the humidity in the several weeks before the launch, the seams were about closed even then. This means they were too tight and probably distorting. It's leaking where it's fastened to the keelson, just aft of the bolt that was seeping. There's a first time for everything and that was the first for that. Now I've got a new project for the winter.

Rich

[Jay Greer]

Congratulations! Kind of reminds me of the coke bottle in side the door panel of a new car. Eureka at last you have found it!
Jay