Stable Fly Fishing Boat Suggestions?

[Steve Lansdowne]

A friend in Austin has asked me about ideas for a stable freshwater fly fishing boat for small lakes that could be propelled by oars and a trolling motor. While he realizes a cat might be more stable, he feels a small, monohull vessel would be simpler to build than a cat. He has no boat building experience and thinks that pontoons would be difficult to build. He anticipates standing on the floor near the bow while casting and using a basket to collect the line. He has considered David Nichols’ Flyfisher but doesn’t think this meets his needs. Any suggestions?

[Paul Girouard]

Steve check out this old thread Garland Reese's post. This Blue Dun was very nice looking boat , used to be avertived in Wooden boat or Fine home building / woodworking. Other may have a line on this design.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/archive/index.php/t-14188.html

I'm not sure if it fits your bill but take a look.

[Bruce Hooke]

For the ultimate small boat for fly fishing dig up a copy of WoodenBoat 64. There is a great article on a small rowing boat built specifically for fly fishing.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/images/200064.JPG

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

A friend in Austin has asked me about ideas for a stable freshwater fly fishing boat for small lakes that could be propelled by oars and a trolling motor. While he realizes a cat might be more stable, he feels a small, monohull vessel would be simpler to build than a cat. He has no boat building experience and thinks that pontoons would be difficult to build. He anticipates standing on the floor near the bow while casting and using a basket to collect the line. He has considered David Nichols’ Flyfisher but doesn’t think this meets his needs. Any suggestions?

You're into somewhat contradictory things. A boat that rows well ( or putts along with small HP) needs to control the waterflow around the hull so it doesn't move thru' the water like a sodden log. For this narrower is better. A boat with a casting deck near the bow needs fullness near the front to support weight up there and maintain stability. All this stuff may be difficult to roll up into a single unit.
What you are talking about is a displacement hull. They can be stable but you usually have to stand in the bottom to keep the center of gravity low. And the ability to stand depends somewhat on the physical abilities of the person doing the standing. I sail an 8' pram that requires I stand to furl and unfurl the sail. I find it dicey even tho' I have the mast to hang on to. There is a picture of a guy in California with a rowing version of the same boat standing and fly casting. A neat trick with a hull that is only 46" wide.
A wide bottomed boat will be more stable but, the wider it gets the more oomph needed to row. Today there are plastic sit-on-top kayaks that are advertised as being stabile enough to stand in and none are more than 34" wide. I think their success comes from the fact that they can do things with rotomolded plastic that are out of the question in wood or ply.
Bateau's Swift Canoe16
http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=SC16&cat=11
is an attempt to design a fishing boat that cuts across the canoe/rowboat/powerboat divide and is about as close as anyone has gotten to solving this problem using plywood and glass.

[Matt Middleton]

Here's a suggesstion, the Montana Guide Boat from Butler projects: http://www.butlerprojects.com/boats/montanaguideboat/index.htm. I have no experience with this guy or his plans, but I like the look of the boat.

http://www.butlerprojects.com/boats/montanaguideboat/File0103-s.jpg

[Thorne]

What's the problem with Nichols' Flyfisher?

It sounds to me as if the **building** part is getting more attention than the **boating** -- this can be a problem.

Of course we all have to be realistic about our building skills, workspace limits, and budget$ -- but letting that drive the functionality of the resulting boat may be an error.

If the building is a real issue, why not go for the simplest flat-bottom skiff plans available? It won't row fast, but should be stable enough to stand in -- and easy and cheap to build.

Can we assume the boat will be trailered? Stored inside or outside? This also makes a difference, as if he wants to shove it into the back of a pickup the plans need to be chosen for that.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

W.T.F is he doing standing up? Where I come from there is a long tradition of fly fishing from small rowing craft - sometimes called "cobles" - this is usually done from the sitting position.

There is a growing sport of canoe/kayak fishing in the UK - now mostly done from the sitting position from rotomolded plastic "Sit-On-Tops".

http://www.anglersafloat.co.uk/KayakLinks.html
http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?showforum=26

If you have a burning desire to build a boat - go build one - If you really want to go fishing, buy the boat, buy it secondhand if needs be the fish will not care.


http://www.coracle-fishing.net/corac-pix/coracj120x.jpg
This has all the hallmarks of a nineteenth century posed photograph but I can well believe that the coracle is a usable fly fishing tool - there are places where it is still used as a net fishing craft.
http://www.coracle-fishing.net/

[Brian Palmer]

I regularly fly fish from a sitting position in an 11 1/2 foot double paddle canoe. I've caught and landed 17 inch bass with no trouble. Mine is a Tom Hill design. Easy to carry and very stealthy.

--Brian

[Jon Etheredge]

Steve,

What about a Rail Skiff like the one that Lance built? It was designed for hunting Railbird in the salt water marshes of New Jersey. The "sport" (hunter) stood in the cockpit while the guide stood on the stern deck and pushed the boat through the marsh with a 16' push pole. Should be plenty stable for fly fishing. It is also a fine platform for birders (bird watching enthusiasts). I think that Lance had intentions to use his as a flats fishing boat on the coast.

It also rows very well.

As far as a trolling motor for propulsion, one of the rail skiffs that I built while working at the Philadelphia Maritime Museum had a wood bracket that fastens to the stern deck and extends out one side of the boat. This bracket was for attaching a small gas outboard motor. I don't think I have any photos but I can provide more details on this if needed.

The arced and rockered bottom is slightly more complex to build than a flat bottom boat but it is well within the range of a beginning amateur. It could also be built with a flat bottom but the original bottom shape is a little better and not that much harder to build (especially using plywood).

[Steve Paskey]

I think I've said this before in response to a similar question ...

What about the "modified McInnis Bateau" in Gardner's "Building Classic Small Craft"? It's a 13-foot rowboat designed for fly-fishing by Walter McInnis, an avid fly fisherman and prominent designer of larger powerboats.

In 1960, McInnis had this to say about his design: "Three of us totaling in weight close to 600 pounds have fished from it, been able to stand up in it, fly cast or spin, all at the same time, using the alternate firing method, without danger of capsizing. She is a remarkable little boat."

The basic shape is much like Dave Nichol's "Flyfisher," except that it's shorter and beamier ... a beam of about 4 feet on a length of 12'8".

Incidentally, I once contacted Dave and asked whether he had any plans to do a rowing version of his boats ... say, a 14-footer with a beam of 42-44 inches. He was interested in doing it, but wanted a $300 design fee ... to which I said, "no thanks."

[boatbear]

I will back up Brian's post above. Fly fishing from a sitting position in a canoe works. You have stealth on your side and can carry it on top of your car. A lightweight strip canoe can be carried in one hand to get to the pool you want to fish.
Charlie

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

In some types of fly fishing having an elevated sight line is necessary because casting blindly isn't effective. The lure has to be deposited close to the quarry to do any good.

[Steve Lansdowne]

Thanks for all the suggestions. One thing I thought about was a narrow hull that could be rowed or use a trolling motor on the transom, fitted out with outriggers that fold down once one is at a spot where one wants to fish. When these were up the oars would extend underneath the raised pontoons. Folding these down and then back up again while in the water might be a hassle, but still I like the idea. Any engineers out there?

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

If youre buddy wants to test the idea then a quick and dirty lash up might help resolve some questions.

SWMBO surveyed the head of the Tamar estuary using a Coleman Canoe and a kayak lashed to a pair of aluminium poles as an outrigger - she says you can stand up and move around in this.

[kenjamin]

Steve, the first boat I built was a little 14' tippy dory so I added outriggers and a pontoon. It was a hassle to assemble at the launch so I cut the laminated outriggers and added a hinge at the top and bottom of each cut so that on each outrigger arm the top hinge stayed pinned and the bottom hinge was unpinned for folding and pinned for use. This worked pretty well except that the fish always went straight for the pontoon when all else was failing. The best thing about my little dory proa was that you could paddle on the pontoon side of the boat and it was perfectly balanced to paddle on just that one side. Eventually the crew weight increased and so did the amount of junk I wanted to bring along so I build a little dory skiff (shown below) a little longer (15' 6") and with a wider bottom so it didn't need a pontoon. My fishing buddy and I fished out of the dory skiff for ~ twenty years.
http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Skiff-topview.jpg
It wasn't pretty but it sure did catch a lot of great fish over the years. That mast was my first prototype of my bird-wing storable mast invention.
http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Doryskiffsailing.jpg
The center seat was a combination live well / daggerboard case – for keeping bait fish alive and sailing if the motor failed.

[Osborne Russell]

Why do you need a motor?

[kenjamin]

The saltwater flats where we fish start about 300 yds from the launch site but the "good" grass beds are more like a mile away. Us "fish-crazed" fishermen launch at the crack of dawn when usually there's no wind and we are too sleepy to row or maybe just too lazy or both. The old 2.5HP Evinrude usually started on the second crank and just took a few sips of gas throughout the day. With two guys working top water plugs for big speckeled trout, the mast was best appreciated stored as backup go power. With the new boat and new mast, we plan to store the mast in the morning but troll under sail for mackerel in the afternoon when the wind really kicks up on the Gulf and ruins our regular fishin'. On really good days we may try for grouper much further out. The new 4HP four stroke Yamaha should have a range of fifty miles or so on three gallons pushing Xena, my new Caledonia Yawl at about 5 knots. Does that sound about right? Will carry plenty of flotation, two sets of oars, a paddle, a three day cooler and a couple of compasses. North will get you home where we fish.

[Varna]

One of the prettiest lake/river fishing boats is the Ellis Rangley boat in Gardner's Classic Small Craft. It is 4' beam and fairly full on the lwl forward so good standing area/stability relatively. Pretty transom for small outboard. Designed as a fish boat. Could be built strip composite or glued lap ply, but a unassisted beginner may have a tough time without detailed plans.

I think the McInnis in the original flat bottom and three panel chined hull with a polypro/epoxy sheathing is a boat within reach of a skilled beginner. It could be built with fir ply over fir/pine frames and stringers without spending alot of cash on a first boat project. The book plans are explanatiory, it is stabile, proven,cartoppable, and a classic. I think many people over think and worry about rowing so called 'beamy' boats. Once moving along they carry fine. Besides isn't relaxing and forgetting all the 'performance' crap one good reason to be on the water?
The McInnis is actually fairly narrow on the lwl- somewhere around 38" below the upper lap with decent freeboard left-not much more than a canoe, but with reserve at a bit under 4' beam, and very flatish in midship. It can be transom sterned by putting a slightly raked transom behind station7, and a sculling notch in it as well-just as the tiny sculling transom in the original, which Gardner eliminated in his Mod. for some reason.

Anyway I think the McInnis would be a good fit for the criteria.

[Barry]

Maybe this?

http://www.guilttrip.com/html/the_au_sable_river_boat.html

[pipefitter]

This one from over at www.bateau.com
It's really made for the flats but seems to fit the bill with the front casting deck and proportions of what makes for a good poling skiff. I don't know how it would row but I bet a nice trolling motor would get it done. Generally,small boats that will glide with a push pole will also glide under oar.

http://www.bateau.com/prodimages/FS18_350.jpg

These types of boats are very quiet and make great stealth and stalking fishing platforms. There is also a 12ft version of this skiff as well if I recall correctly. The one pictured above is the FS (flats stalker)18

[Clencher]

Have a look at Selway Fisher website. They do a 14 ft fishing coblemaybe a bit big for what you want but looks like a reall good fishing platform for lakes/rivers/estuaries to me.

The pics are a 'stretched' 16ft version built by the students at Lyme Regis, seen at Beale Park show.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL370/9115650/16752884/277872859.jpg


http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL370/9115650/16752884/277873086.jpg

[Spokaloo]

Im not really sure how this one hasn't made the list...

Lutra laker:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/nichols/laker/index.htm

Two sizes as well.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/nichols/laker/laker-3.jpg

E

[djn]

A friend of mine who is going to start building Fly Fishing boats for sale is building me a Montana boat. Here is the link and a pic of the boat Tony is building for me. Cheers.

http://www.montanaboatbuilders.com/

http://www.montanaboatbuilders.com/images/Boats/Freestone%20Guide/rollover_freestoneguide_r1_c1.gif

[DDan]

FYI Small, deployable pontoons work. A friend and I have flyfished the Susquehanna standing in his canoe fitted with outriggers. The outriggers are commercially available: foam floats attached to an aluminum frame, adjustable both for width and height. We also used a trolling motor on a canoe motor mount. This set-up is not optimum, but it works well. When possible, I prefer to fly-fish standing - both for sight and because you can cast farther.

Lots of great ideas. Are the Rangeley or Adirondack guideboats stable enough to stand in? I've never fished from a drift boat, but my same friend says that the fixtures just above or below knee height that you lean into really increase your sense of security. I'm actually considering incorporating them into the edge of the front deck of the Simmons Sea Skiff I'm building.

[pipefitter]

I built the raised fore deck(casting deck) in the Simmons 18 to just brace below the knees. Reason for doing so was for throwing an 8 and a 12ft cast net on the fly,ambush style. Since I don't move my feet when I toss anyway,It works out perfectly,especially when someone else is working the throttle with the inherent surprises of not being able to read their mind. I have fished on raised deck boats for a long time and it is much better having a bracing point.

For saltwater fly fishing,the Simmons would work very well. Although noted for being a tender hull, while standing in the front, whether casting or netting, does not cause the Simmons to heal hardly at all. I would definitely use this boat for fly fishing,not to mention it is so quiet under push pole,I am finding I can get very close to the fish. Last weekend,we had a school split right around the hull within 2-3 ft on both sides. I found that raising the casting deck 8" worked out perfectly.

[jollymon]

A friend of mine who is going to start building Fly Fishing boats for sale is building me a Montana boat. Here is the link and a pic of the boat Tony is building for me. Cheers.

http://www.montanaboatbuilders.com/

http://www.montanaboatbuilders.com/images/Boats/Freestone%20Guide/rollover_freestoneguide_r1_c1.gif

Ken Hankinson has a similar design designed to take up to a 20 hp motor that I'm building. Should be good for flyfishing, river/creek drifting, lakes etc. Can be built 15 or 16.5 ft. I'm building the larger version.

[Steve Lansdowne]

I've really enjoyed seeing all these replies and ideas. My friend indicates that David Nichols' Little Laker may be what he is looking for. David has begun to offer boat kits, and along with his DVD and boat building manual, plus the fact that he lives but a few miles from me/my friend, makes this a good possibility. We'll probably go out to David's shop before long to talk to him more about this. (And, No, just in case you're wondering, this is not a clever ploy to get some free publicity for David's work. I was thinking of Flyfisher initially, but it didn't meet my friend's criteria. Only later with the above post about David's Laker boats did this boat search take the latest turn.) Thanks, everyone.

[DDan]

I built the raised fore deck(casting deck) in the Simmons 18 to just brace below the knees.

Pipefitter: I have lots of work to do before fitting out the interior, but as I get closer, I'd love to "pick your brain" about layout for flyfishing. I hope to use mine for inshore & bay flyfishing, among other things. Dan

[Skiff Junkie]

A few years ago, Capgemini Investments did a commercial that featured Andre Agassi's tennis coach fly fishing - on an 18-foot Simmons. You can see it here: http://www.au.capgemini.com/advertising/commercial/.

[adampet]

I knew I had a copy of this picture somewhere. You CAN flyfish from a dory. See you can even stand up. Simple , cheap and easy. My older brother, going after Striped Bass in the Spring.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/adampet/TimeFlies.jpg

Adam